EPT
Fezvez's' Co-op guide and hero review - Page 32
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MrTic
60 Posts
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monk
United States8477 Posts
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
tempests synergize astonishing with energizers, interceptors benefit greatly from guardian shell artanis needs carriers' repair drones, karax doesn't need at all as for the viking/wraith switch, it also makes sense: swann relies too much on goliaths, vikings would be a viable alternative (say tanks+hellbats+vikings) wraiths would be very cheap for raynor (120/50), thus massable one could make banshee and wraith upgrades mutually beneficial, thus making this combo viable (banshee would need the cloaking by default in this caae, and get the liberty campaign upgrade to decrease cloaking energy drain) | ||
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Kirena
United States6 Posts
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MrTic
60 Posts
Idk about other unit switches though, but Kerrigan/Zagara unit switch seems quite a good idea so far. | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1510 Posts
https://i.imgur.com/8ypE5Y4.png | ||
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The Bottle
242 Posts
On July 21 2016 08:25 Xsyq wrote: I'd be more in favor of this if Abathur didn't already have Devourers with AOE Corrosive Acid, which reduces attack speed and armor and can target air or ground. That's a pretty huge role overlap. I feel like you might as well just give both of the commanders Devourers at that point. I also disagree that Corruptors would be overshadowed that heavily by other AA. Corruptors (especially at high mastery 150/70 cost) have a lot of life and armor for their price, and the things you'd normally build Corruptors to fight (Liberators, Pheonix, Scouts, Capital Ships) do very well against Hydras but very poorly against armor, which is why I suggested the +2 armor upgrade. They wouldn't have much DPS, but they would have a lot of survivability, especially with mineral dump Queen support. Right, I forgot co-op devourers have that debuff. It's hard to notice when they just erase all air. I think you might be getting swayed too heavily by corruptors from ladder. Yes, they are very cost effective against those units you listed. But against those dramatic end-game air waves, cost effectiveness isn't enough. I just don't buy that they can be competitive with vikings and devourers due to their durability alone. End game air waves have crazy DPS, you need to be blowing them up before they can get too many hits on you. Sitting and trading blows for a while is just a bad idea. Sure you may have transfuse and immobilisation wave, but even a single late game wave probably costs at least double your army cost, so you can't keep up with it. I really think they would need some buff for damage dealing (either that or a huge survivability buff), especially if you're investing in air upgrades and can't afford hydras. But maybe I'm just underestimating the capability of immobilisation wave to keep your army having that edge, IDK. | ||
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Xsyq
143 Posts
Karax got Carriers because they repair stuff and that's his shtick. Don't overthink it. That being said, both of those swaps would have benefits, but would not solve a huge problem like Corrupter/Mutalisk does imo. Tempest/Carrier - Karax already takes care of swarms with his calldowns, but the tougher units such as BCs and Hybrids give him more trouble when going Carriers, especially on Brutal with enemies getting +1 armor immediately. Tempests do much better damage to those targets but are cheaper in both resources and supply. The main bonus for Artanis here would be healing from the Carriers, which would be really OP in combination with Guardian Shell. Playing Karax/Artanis already makes your units invincible but giving Carriers to Artanis would let him pull off that combo by himself. It'd be like a Abathur mutalisk deathball except without the biomass or micro requirement. Scourge? Well, Guardian Shell just popped on 5 of my Carriers, good thing they all heal back to full in a few seconds. BCs? Well Yamato does nothing, so they're irrelevant. Any other AA? Good luck trying to whittle down 300/150 with passive healing plus 30% regen and 5 second invulnerability every 60 seconds. So I don't think this swap would necessarily be a good one. Wraith/Viking - This swap is a lot more interesting to me. Just looking at the Wraith by itself it seems to fit better with Raynor than Swann; better mineral/gas ratio for mules (150/50 vs 150/75), faster speed to take advantage of Afterburners, and Cloak to mitigate damage instead of having to waste money repairing. It's also from SC1 and Raynor has most of the Terran SC1 units. However, the Wraith is much worse in large numbers than the Viking, so this would definitely be a nerf to Raynor. On the other hand, the Viking fits Swann perfectly. It has extreme range and splash damage, it's relatively slow but powerful, it's a bit heavier on the gas, it transforms like the Hellbat/Siege Tank (plus Thor I suppose), and it's from SC2. The main problem with this swap is that Swann already has plenty of ways to deal with air (Thors, Goliaths, Turrets, Laser Drill, Wraiths, and Cyclones) while Raynor only has four units that shoot up, and you're not going to be building many Marines when going mech. So I don't think this would be the greatest change right after Raynor got nerfed pretty hard. @TheBottle I think you're underestimating Corruptor DPS and the effect that +2 armor would have on their durability. Don't forget they're only 2 supply and cost less than Devourers or Vikings with a high enough gas mastery. With natural armor and the +2 upgrade, Corruptors would have up to 7 armor. Compare to the upgraded anti-air damage of the air waves you'll encounter: Battlecruiser: 9 damage, 2 after armor. Liberator: 10x2 splash damage, 3x2 after armor. Viking: 13+4x2 damage, 10x2 after armor. Pheonix: 8x2 damage, 1 after armor. Scout: 10+7x2 damage, 10x2 after armor. (Apparently they upgraded this recently, it used to be 5x2 flat.) Carrier: 8x2 damage from 8 interceptors, 1x2x8 after armor. Void Ray: 9+4/9+6/9+8 damage per charge, 6/8/10 damage after armor. Tempest: 69 damage, 62 damage after armor. Mutalisk: 12/4/1 damage, 5/1/1 damage after armor. Corruptor: 14 damage, 7 damage after armor. Viper: 10+5 damage, 8 damage after armor. Scourge: 125 damage, armor doesn't matter since it's still a 2-shot kill. Seems pretty clear to me that Corruptors would do just fine against most air. They would also ignore most of the DPS that kills hydras (banshees, liberation zone, oracles, broodlords, etc). | ||
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typhoonius
United States4 Posts
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Xsyq
143 Posts
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typhoonius
United States4 Posts
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MrTic
60 Posts
Does destroying enemy bases generally have any effect on the mission? I tried to see if there was any reduction in waves but didn't notice any.. Seems like enemy buildings only serve as a pathing and targeting obstacles on the way to objectives. | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
On July 27 2016 03:56 MrTic wrote: Wild question: Does destroying enemy bases generally have any effect on the mission? I tried to see if there was any reduction in waves but didn't notice any.. Seems like enemy buildings only serve as a pathing and targeting obstacles on the way to objectives. From my experience, you are right. You can sit outside a base, and they will never attack you (i.e : bases don't produce units). And the size of the real waves is unaffected However, killing the enemy bases is often win-more as you can subsequently snipe the waves when they teleport if you place your troops well. | ||
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MrTic
60 Posts
It would give place to some new strategies like forgoing the objectives to lift some pressure from bases and then continue like usual. For example "this here base is producing mainly air units, let's rush it so we don't face mass liberators and BCs later" :D | ||
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
On July 25 2016 19:19 Xsyq wrote: You mean scourge? What about giving abominations the ability to attack air? At worst through an upgrade? They are heavily underused at the moment, and out of the spire, Zagara must mainly resorts to her own attacks and abilities to attack air. | ||
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Chr15t
Denmark1103 Posts
So with +10% Chrono Boost Efficiency does that equal: 1. 10 + 15(base) = 25% or 2. 15*1,1 = 16,5% . | ||
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MrTic
60 Posts
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Clear World
125 Posts
On July 27 2016 19:27 Chr15t wrote: Can anyone tell me if mastery points put into Chrono Boost Efficiency, works additively or multiplicative? So with +10% Chrono Boost Efficiency does that equal: 1. 10 + 15(base) = 25% or 2. 15*1,1 = 16,5% . Additively. So +10% from mastery would be: 10% + 22.5% (the actual base value) = 32.5% | ||
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MrTic
60 Posts
Personally, I don't build more Orbitals, but I do build bunkers quite often, just to hold off enemies for a time. Mainly in Lock&Load mission, where I don't have enough army or apm to constantly split and defend to locks being captured by just a few enemies. The bunkers proved quite useful, I'm even dropping some marines to put them in before a wave comes, ensuring minimal losses and more time for my army to arrive. | ||
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Chr15t
Denmark1103 Posts
On July 27 2016 20:57 Clear World wrote: Additively. So +10% from mastery would be: 10% + 22.5% (the actual base value) = 32.5% Thank you for the explanation and the actual base value - help a lot. | ||
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