Swann + Abathur for mass mutas seems good at first glance. But I don't think it's that good synergy. Both have rather slow start and with my bad luck I often find myself as Abathur against a lot of splash on mutas. In that case a lot of gass doesn't help and it's actually amassing biomass that will make your army invincible in the end.
I don't agree with that. Maybe Swann's start is slow, although if your build is right, I think you should never have any problem stopping the first few waves. All you have to do is build your first turrets on time, and time your herc-tanks to be out before the second wave. And if you can't, you have the warbots. I've never had an issue with Abathur's start. Toxic nests make sure you never get touched by the first two waves, as long as you have a roach to guide them into the nests. The only problem you'd ever have is phoenixes in the second wave, but that means you make queens if you see zealots in the first. And you generally get a brutalisk after two waves.
I didn't mean slow start as you would have problem staying alive. I meant it as ability to push objectives fast. Obviously nothing should kill you on normal maps and most of mutations no matter what composition you are going. But artanis+zagara probably cleared a lot of map by the time abathur+swann start rolling. If there was mutation that would require fast start Abathur+Swann might have harder time and so I said that.
I agree with your point.... for non-mutation offensive missions. (Though I think Raynor is the best for those.) I very much prefer abathur/swann for non-mutation defensive missions. And I prefer them for most of the mutations. Train of the Dead (in which Zagara is virtually useless), Bad Weather (Abathur sucks but Swann is the best, while both Zagara and Artanis aren't so great), Whiteout (debatable), Temple of Pain, and Spear of your Doom are all missions in which I think the Swann + Abathur combo would do much better. I'd only prefer Zagara + Artanis in the laser drill mission, the first Lock & Load, and War is Hell.
The Bottle: No, I'm pretty sure they disabled Guardian Shell on suicide units altogether. Not just when they suicide, but when they are legitimately killed as well.
This is what I meant, thanks for clarifying
Edit: Something unrelated to recent discussion.. Noticed Kerrigan's Omega Worms upgrade description says, among other things, that Omega worms enable allies to use them? Well actually, allies can use the normal Nydus worms as well. Idk if it has been said, if not, I can confirm it works.
Edit#2 Question: if I play as Kerrigan and my ally is either Abathur or Zagara, and if I have the malignant creep (?) upgrade, does it automaticaly make ally's creep malignant as well?
There is no allied or enemy creep in Starcraft 2, there's just creep. As long as Kerrigan is in the mission you will get the malignant creep bonus from standing on any creep.
Apparently the patch 3.4 notes were up for a bit, this is from the b.net forums:
It looks like they took down the page. Here is what it said in regards to co-op:
Raynor: Replaced Level 7 upgrade with a new upgrade: Battle Bunkers Bunkers gain life bonus increased to 200. Bunkers gain a shrike turret.
Developer Comments: Bunkers are not getting a lot of use. They have some upgrades available but they don't help in the early game and have questionable value in terms of cost and time investment later on. Instead of unlocking research at level 7, Raynor will now be able to build upgraded Bunkers at level 7. The life bonus has also been increased slightly.
Replaced Level 10 Double M.U.L.E. upgrade with a new upgrade: Armor upgrades in the Armory and Engineering Bay increase life in addition to increasing armor. Infantry Armor Level 1-3 gives +10% of base health at each level. Vehicle Plating Level 1-3 gives +10% of base health at each level.
Developer Comments: The double M.U.L.E. upgrade is currently encouraging a mass Orbital Command strategy which allows Raynor to make an endless stream of only Marines. Players not employing this strategy gain a fairly minor power increase. We decided to replace this upgrade with a powerful combat upgrade instead which should help Raynor against area damage and increase his overall survivability. This upgrade also effects all unit types including mechanical, so it should also help to make Factory and Starport units viable, rather than just allowing Raynor to simply make more Marines.
Level 15 unlocks: All combat units including mechanical units gain 15% attack speed.
Developer Comments: We also want to change this upgrade to affect all units including mechanical, again to open up Raynor's strategic options. While Raynor's core strength is his biological army, it was important to us not to discourage the use of the other units. We want to supplement his army with the right tools depending on the situation, and we were sending the wrong message by having this upgrade affect only his Barracks units.
Tooltips were updated for clarification: "Reduces the cooldown of the Hyperion ability. Does not affect initial cooldown at the start of the mission." "Reduces the cooldown of the Banshee Airstrike ability. Does not affect initial cooldown at the start of the mission."
Artanis: Units still take damage down to 1 life when protected by Guardian Shell instead of preventing all the damage of the killing blow. Fungal Growth: Artanis Guardian Shell now removes Fungal Growth when activated. Previously Fungal Growth could kill a unit while it was invulnerable.
Kerrigan: Malignant Creep: Affects all friendly bio and mechanical ground units.
Buffed: Gives a flat 1 life per second to everything.
Zagara: Mastery Point: Cocoon Birth Time is reduced by 1 second per level, up from 0.5.
Bug Fixes: Commanders
Abathur Abathur’s Mend ability no longer reveals invisible units on The Vermillion Problem. Abathur’s Malignant Creep now correctly affects Abathur’s Ravager and its burrowed version. Fixed an issue that could cause Mutalisks to deal an additional attack after researching Sundering Glaive.
Artanis Fungal Growth can no longer kill units through Artanis’ Guardian Shell.
Karax Karax’s Shield Battery no longer auto-casts on invalid targets. Karax’s Rapid Recharge research upgrade no longer affects Energizer in Phasing Mode. Karax’s Energizer in Phasing Mode now has a grey icon for Reclamation if not researched. Karax’s Energizer in Phasing Mode now has the active ability Reclamation if researched. Fixed an issue with subgroup priority for Karax’s Immortal.
Kerrigan Kerrigan’s ability, Malignant Creep is now applying a proper attack speed buff.
Raynor Raynor’s Drop Pod Haste mastery is now fulfilling the full duration. Battlecruisers no longer jump to a single location using Tactical Jump.
Swann Fixed issues with Swann’s Siege Tanks being indestructible with certain abilities.
Maps The Vermillion Problem Fixed an issue where a worker’s Xenon Crystal cargo could be destroyed upon the worker’s death.
Holy shit! They're removing Raynor's double mules?? That upgrade defines him, as far as I'm concerned. It's like making Karax's orbital strikes have the same form of Artanis/campaign, and then buffing his units to compensate. Well that is a huge nerf, I don't think the buffs really compensate. And I don't really think this will discourage mass orbital (in fact it will probably force you to make more of them).
Also:
Fixed an issue that could cause Mutalisks to deal an additional attack after researching Sundering Glaive.
Hmmmm... was that the reason they were so OP? Well if mutalisks end up being heavily nerfed by this, I'm okay with that. It would encourage more guardian/devourer play if you want to go heavy air, plus mutas would still have their own specialised use (like killing the trains quicker than anything else).
We also want to change this upgrade to affect all units including mechanical, again to open up Raynor's strategic options. While Raynor's core strength is his biological army, it was important to us not to discourage the use of the other units. We want to supplement his army with the right tools depending on the situation, and we were sending the wrong message by having this upgrade affect only his Barracks units.
They say this while Raynor's Power Set 3 is only beneficial to bio units.
I hope mass vultures and vikings is still viable after this though.
Ah! I was looking for this changelog for half an hour lol..
With upgrades Raynor's units get 30% more hp hmm that's quite good imo. I see the double mule seems like a gigantic nerf but I think the buffs compensate. His units will be harder to kill plus his bio can heal up quickly anyway, there won't be as much need to spam mules and marines all the time. It seems like an improvement to me in theory..
Curious about the Coccon time.. I wonder if it would affect Kerrigan's as well although it's not listed.
The Raynor change seems fine to me. Essentially having infinite money with extremely strong mineral-only AA and AG was a bit silly. You'll need twice as many orbital commands to get the same effect now, it'll probably not be worth it in most cases. I think Monk's extra greedy 3CC build before units is dead. Assuming the 10% increase is actually a multiplier and not just a flat buff (like Vanadium Plating in the campaign) you'll end up with 73 HP marines, 80 HP medics, 267 HP firebats, 100 HP vultures, and 167 HP vikings. That's a pretty substantial buff, especially considering how well the medic masteries did at keeping your bioball alive before. Don't see why they nerfed guardian shell by removing the prevent damage effect. I guess Yamato healing Tempests back to 60% life was too OP? It's nice that they're fixing the Swann Tank bug. I'd have a tank every few games that would never die but still be taking up supply and space. Kerrigan creep buff is also nice, that will work well with Protoss armies that otherwise have no way to heal HP damage. Looks like the Shield Battery protecting the Temple is actually a bug, wonder if that applies to them protecting Toxic Nests as well. Zagara birth time is nice but still worthless. Extra larva is ridiculously good early game. I think the Sundering Glaive bug might just be referring to an extra bounce, not attacking twice. The damage boost from Sundering Glaive doesn't feel like double the damage vs unarmored targets and quadruple the damage vs armored.
I did a WR speedrun of the mission Void trashing on brutal in 9:27 If someone has a level 80+ Artanis or Kerrigan and want to help out so I can do more runs (EU), PM me. I don't know which of those two heroes is the fastest to team up with.
It's a bit sad for Raynor as he played very differently from the other commanders, and there is charm in having diversity. His midgame will probably be a bit slower as players go for 8~10 OC (that's what I did before level 10)
Artanis received a slight nerf, but I agree that it was weird to receive a Hunter Seeker Missile and your units lose 0 life.
On July 13 2016 03:50 fezvez wrote: Some OK changes in the Patch notes.
It's a bit sad for Raynor as he played very differently from the other commanders, and there is charm in having diversity. His midgame will probably be a bit slower as players go for 8~10 OC (that's what I did before level 10)
Artanis received a slight nerf, but I agree that it was weird to receive a Hunter Seeker Missile and your units lose 0 life.
Yeah, that's what struck me the most about it. It feels like Raynor is going to feel much more boring and "standard" now, without as much of that unique flavor of his. I understand if they felt the need to nerf him, but I didn't like that they compromised the character of his play style. That's why I likened it to turning Karax's orbital strike into the "standard" orbital strike. It very much changes the commander fundamentally.
EDIT: So it turns out that the +10% HP on marines doesn't count the combat shields. So it's +4.5 health per armor upgrade, not 5.5 and their fully upgraded health it 68.5 (read as 68). That's still really strong. It just takes time to get there. But the improved bunkers help you with the early waves more.
I've been playing as Kerrigan extensively for the last several says, got her to lv15 and have 60 masteries now. I've placed points in Energy Regen., lower Vespene costs and Larva spawns.
I'd appreciate some advice on my buils order. Idk how to describe it in the usual format so I'll go like this: As resources come in, first I build Drone>Drone>Overlord. Then just Drones until my minerals get to 200, so one drone goes to build a Spawning Pool. I proceed by making drones and overlords as needed until the Pool is ready, then just wait for 150 minerals for a Queen. After the queen is quied, again just drones and overlords and at 400 min. I get another Hatchery in main base + another Queen for it, plus the two vespene Asimilators(?) to get some gas for upgrades.
Sometimes I delay the 2nd Hatchery to get some Zerglings to help defend, but usualy my ally can do that if we communicate a little before. I get 3 uhh buildings where Kerrigan's upgrades are researched , and then Kerrigan comes out and hops on the rocks while a Drone follows for another Hatchery there. In the meantime, I'd usualy upgrade my 2nd Hatchery to Lair, get an Omega Worm in main base and shoot another at my expansion to all fresh made units would come into the network.
My unit choice is ground units only, even for the train map (for which I hear Mutalisk are prefered).
My playstyle - have ground combat units on #1, Kerrigan #2, "original" Omegas #3, all research buildings #4, all Hatcheries #5 and Overseers #6. I just use kerrigan and rush all her upgrades, while teching to Hydralisks and later Ultralisks. I don't usualy make Mutalisks because of their fragility and them clumping so much that a few AoEs kill them all. When Kerrigan alone is not enough, I spam Omega Worms for every battle to bring my Zerg/Hydra and later Ultra army + spread some creep.
My allies never seem to use the omegas, even if I place them everywhere around the map... The only time an ally used them was once on Vermilion map :D My problems are mostly: dealing with the first wave if ally can't, dragging Overseers everywhere and ofc enemy Terran air composition. The most difficult map is probably Rifts to Korhal, because of the time pressure to attack the bases, but for that I need a decent army first and I'm slow with that and the pirates bonus objective.. Ican handle the Shuttles well using the Omegas filled with Hydras though...
How, when and where is it advised to use Mutalisks and/or Brood Lords and which of their upgrades take priority? What can I improve in my starting build (maybe map or enemy dependant) and in general gameplay, mastery selection etc..
Don't use Zerglings to clear your rocks, use Kerrigan instead.
Generally, just don't make Zerglings
Focus on econ, then go straight to Ultralisks. Kerrigan can solo until you get there. A Hydralisk opening is too squishy.
Your mineral dump should be Queens.
Mutalisks and Broodlords are never the best option.
If you're getting a macro hatch before the rocks are down, it's better to get it by the rocks next to your expo so that drones coming out of that hatch can mine efficiently.
Kerrigan's Zerglings are worth building against most ground armies (20 dps per zergling is the second best cost/dps ratio in the game), but you need to use them more carefully than cannon fodder. Sending in ultralisks and Kerrigan first then following with zerglings will ensure as little loss as possible but will still shred armies faster than hydras can. Pre-mastery patch I played ultra/ling almost exclusively with Kerrigan and it still works on any map vs any ground composition.
Ah! I see now why a macro Hatch is better at rocks, it should improve my economy. Queens instead of zerglings should work, but I can't seem to set a rally point for them..they always spawn at the larva spot so I guess I'll just send them to the Omega frequently (ughh apm..APM! :D).
If I ignore Hydras, and Queens become the only AA, idk how effective that would be right now. Anyway I'll do it to hopefuly understand. I don't like to rely on my ally for AA too much, because I got disapointed quite a few times when I did :p
I can agree the Zerglings are excelent killers (except in air enemy), the way I used them so far was mainly for base destruction - Kerrigan would activate Assimilation, jump inthe middle of a base and use Disruption. Then I'd pop a worm in there and swarm through the enemy before they can move. But yeah they weren't great vs stuff like Hybrids or Banelings..
On July 13 2016 15:01 MrTic wrote: Ah! I see now why a macro Hatch is better at rocks, it should improve my economy. Queens instead of zerglings should work, but I can't seem to set a rally point for them..they always spawn at the larva spot so I guess I'll just send them to the Omega frequently (ughh apm..APM! :D).
If I ignore Hydras, and Queens become the only AA, idk how effective that would be right now. Anyway I'll do it to hopefuly understand. I don't like to rely on my ally for AA too much, because I got disapointed quite a few times when I did :p
I can agree the Zerglings are excelent killers (except in air enemy), the way I used them so far was mainly for base destruction - Kerrigan would activate Assimilation, jump inthe middle of a base and use Disruption. Then I'd pop a worm in there and swarm through the enemy before they can move. But yeah they weren't great vs stuff like Hybrids or Banelings..
Thanks for the great tips!
You don't have to ignore Hydras. Just open Ultras and rely on Queen/Kerrigan as your anti-air at first. Then add in Hydras later on as the game progresses.
1) raynor's 10% hp buff doesn't work properly, at least for mechanical units e.g. fully upgraded battlecruisers only have 585 hp insted of 715 marines get only 4 hp per upgrade lvl 2) karax's instant warp-in of pylons and defensive structures doesn't work
Raynor's still pretty good, it's hard to say if this was a buff or a nerf. The bunkers are insane, and mass mine is still very viable. One easy, obvious thing that's helped me a lot with him is to rally my factory separately from my barracks/starport and then hotkey my vultures separately from the rest of my army. Vultures aren't that great at actual army combat, so you want them to be off mining the rest of the map while your army fights.
EPT
