EPTFezvez's' Co-op guide and hero review - Page 34
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Mod_Counter
Germany20 Posts
first of all, thanks for the great guides and strategy in this Threat, helped me a lot to improve my game and being able to beat Brutal Missions and some Mutators consistently. I recently started to pick up Swann as my 5th Commander to get to level 15 (which i achieved a week ago) and I really like him, playing on Brutal once I got Vespene Drones. But once I hit level 10 and got Tech Reactors I noticed my Build stopped working as well as it did before. Of course I read the recommended tactics and opening builds here and it works really well for me, opening with some static defense to defend the 2 first pushes and clear the natural and using a composition with Tank / Herc & Massing Goliath with the occasional Thor and Hellbat mixed into it. Since this opener only requires Minerals until you get your second CC, I delay getting my Gasses quite a bit. This was enough to throw down a Tech Lab on my Factory relatively early to start Tank Production and add a quick Starport with Tech Lab to get a Herc for that sweet Tank micro, but having Tech Reactors cost 75/75 instead of 50/25 and also taking longer to build, my first Tanks and Herc got massively delayed. I am basically paying 50 Minerals and 100 gas extra and having a longer build time for almost no benefit, also having to wait for 75 gas to pay for the Tech Reactor instead of immideatly throwing down the Tech lab at 25 gas delaying my first Tanks even more, same with getting my first Herc out and I feel like it Tech Reactors hurt Swanns slow ramp even more. To fix this, I would suggest giving Swann the option to either build all 3 add ons or being able to deactivate the Tech Reactor Option somehow. It kinda frustrates me that a supposed upgrade makes my favorite build less good. Does anyone else have this observation? | ||
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The Bottle
242 Posts
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Mod_Counter
Germany20 Posts
I just wanted to make them aware of the "issue" so it maybe gets changed, as I think it would help one of Swanns biggest weaknesses as he is already on of the bottom tier commanders. In the end it just gives more choices to the players, which is always a good thing: If you prefer Tech Reactors you can still use them, but you also have the option of using the cheaper alternatives. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On September 08 2016 00:00 Mod_Counter wrote: I agree with you in that with a slight build adjustment its not a big deal, its more a quality of life adjustment that wouldnt take a lot to "fix" for Blizzard. I just wanted to make them aware of the "issue" so it maybe gets changed, as I think it would help one of Swanns biggest weaknesses as he is already on of the bottom tier commanders. In the end it just gives more choices to the players, which is always a good thing: If you prefer Tech Reactors you can still use them, but you also have the option of using the cheaper alternatives. Disagree here. Swann is a middle-tier commander according to what I've gathered so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lSmCvFn5ZD5xTHxfIBR_HeGVM5u3bFtCpQmP1pAOQsU/edit#gid=0 | ||
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Mod_Counter
Germany20 Posts
Any thoughts on my ideas regarding the Tech Reactor? | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
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ChaosOS
United States68 Posts
Long list of Patch Note changes, TL;DR of the top: Alarak, New Mission, and Custom Mutations added > Destructible Rocks have been added over the Vespene Geysers for the expansions on most Co-op Missions. This will slightly slow the rate of expanding on those maps. > Auto cast toggle selection on Brutalisk or Leviathan is now retained through morphing into a Ravager, Guardian, or Devourer. > Developer Comments: This is a quality of life change which should allow you to turn off the auto cast if you wanted the unit to remain in its upgraded form and keep its Bio Mass stacks. > Bio Mass Bonuses > Attack speed bonus reduced from 2% to 1% per stack. > Developer Comments: A unit with a lot of Biomass was dealing too much damage as well as generating too much life from life leech. Abathur would often not even need to use the Mend ability. We believe reducing the attack speed bonus slightly can bring Abathur to a more reasonable level, and the Mend ability can be more useful again without changing Abathur’s overall power level. > Life bonus changed from +5 Life (flat value) to +3% Life (percentage based). > Developer Comments: Percentage based life increase is more consistent across the different unit types. A Swarm Host with full stacks of Biomass was generating locusts with the same life as an Ultralisk! > Battlecruisers > Hitpoints increased from 450 to 550. > Energy removed. > Yamato Cannon now has 100 seconds cooldown. > Developer Comments: Battlecruisers have increased life and no longer have energy. Yamato Cannon is now a cooldown based ability and can be used more often. > Vorazun Emergency Recall > It now removes negative status effects and damage over time effects such as Fungal, Irradiate, or Parasitic Bomb, so that the units won't die immediately after being saved. > Developer Comments: It was not a great experience to recall units to safety then see them die immediately from the negative status effects or damage over time effects. In some cases, recalled units could kill other friendly units as well. > Cooldown increased to 5 mins. > Developer Comments: Emergency Recall was designed to allow Vorazun to venture out with cloaked units and have a safety net if they were detected and killed. But the cooldown was so short, so that the units were nearly unkillable in most cases. > Shadow Guard > Cool-up time (that is, the time before an ability becomes available) is now increased to 4 minutes to be in line with other Commander abilities. > Developer Comments: Most Commander abilities come online around the 4-minute mark. This was not an issue with Vorazun until Mastery Points were released. Starting Spear of Adun energy should still allow players to use the abilities more often without resulting in an instant expansion for both players at the mission start. > Commanders > General > Kerrigan and Zagara’s Spawning Pool now shows Queens properly in the tooltip. > Fixed a graphical issue that could occur when using Abathur’s Biomass ability. > The Temporal Field mutator now properly slows Heroic units. > Abathur > Fixed multiple issues with displaying Roach Vile on the Units tab. > Viper now properly displays the energy regeneration buff on the Biomass tooltip. > Karax > Shadow Cannons now take priority over Energizers in the subgroup command for Immortal. > Kerrigan > Fixed an issue where the Leaping Strike ability allowed access to the unpathable areas around the Void Shard. > Raynor > The Bunker icon in the Units tab now properly updates with the Battle Bunkers upgrade. > Removed an unintended ability button on the Siege Tank’s command card. > Swann > Fixed an issue where Thors could have a different skin when destroyed. > Defensive Matrix now does not interact with a unit’s base shields. > Vorazun > Leviathans no longer continue to attack when affected by Time Stop. > Disruption Web’s debuff icon is now displayed in the correct color. > Maps > Chain of Ascension > Fixed multiple issues where unit vision and minimap vision were not properly removed with the Darkness mutator in Chain of Ascension. > Fixed an issue with the Slayn Elemental’s circular pathing when engaging units at spawn. > Temple of the Past > Fixed multiple issues with placing Toxic Nests in certain locations of the map. > The Vermillion Problem > Missiles from the Missile Madness mutator will no longer target structures. > Void Thrashing > Void Thrashers are now properly cloaked by the We Move Unseen mutator. > Mutators > Guardian Shield’s radius of effect now properly matches its graphic with the Power Overwhelming mutator. > The Speed Freaks mutator now has a proper tooltip description. > Fixed multiple issues with the Micro Transactions mutator. > Fixed an issue with the Blizzard mutator where storm clouds could get stuck in certain map locations. | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
I mainly like the nerfs to Vorazun, I may actually start playing her again (it trivialized the missions too hard). The Raynor buff is very likely inconsequential The most involved persons here should try to make challenges. For example, every week, we take the new mutation and try to add more mutators to make it nearly impossible | ||
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Rizare
Canada592 Posts
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The Bottle
242 Posts
@Rizare: Yeah, it probably means that. I found that enemy units share the same traits as allied units in co-op (not including the extra things you can research), e.g. vipers use disabling cloud rather than blinding cloud, etc. | ||
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Rizare
Canada592 Posts
On September 13 2016 04:47 fezvez wrote: Awesome! I mainly like the nerfs to Vorazun, I may actually start playing her again (it trivialized the missions too hard). The Raynor buff is very likely inconsequential The most involved persons here should try to make challenges. For example, every week, we take the new mutation and try to add more mutators to make it nearly impossible BCs are just a fun unit if you feel like fooling around. As for Vorazun, I actually haven't play her much but I'm aware of her OPness. We'll see what difference it will makes because without early DTs calldown, it just pushes expansion to standard time as if you were playing with someone else. On September 13 2016 07:45 The Bottle wrote: It really seems like they don't want us to fast expand. Either that or they want to put all commanders in a similar place in terms of how fast they can expand. (Though Karax can still FE with these changes.) @Rizare: Yeah, it probably means that. I found that enemy units share the same traits as allied units in co-op (not including the extra things you can research), e.g. vipers use disabling cloud rather than blinding cloud, etc. For Karax, just have to set up the cannons differently so they have all 3 rocks in range. There doesn't seem to be anything about Hercules and tanks in siege mode so looks like that OP anti-ground is still safe. | ||
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Xsyq
143 Posts
Also, it appears that enemy BCs still use energy for Yamato, so you can still feedback them. First thoughts on Alarak: Slow. Really slow to start and slow to move. One of the better A-move commanders, though, especially if you bother to micro Alarak. Stun every five seconds is really good. Only a couple possible combinations, you'll want to go Stalker/Wraithwalker for air and Vanguards for ground, with Supplicants as mineral dumps and a few Havocs for support. Haven't got Ascendants yet, imagine they're very good. Overall plays very similarly to Artanis and Kerrigan, without their mobility. Not that impressed honestly. Edit: More thoughts - Wraithwalkers still aren't that great in general, as the attack wind-up beforehand means most of your damage gets wasted. Being the only unit targetable by anti-air doesn't help it survive much either (unless you're building war prisms, lul), which is pretty bad considering how many air waves have dedicated anti-air units in them. Just massing Slayers works better, 8 range Stalkers with the Mirage ability are really good. Generally it's better to dash through the enemy and push them towards your units so they die faster. Pushing them away means you have to move over to shoot at them, giving them more time to shoot at you. To expand it's fastest to just build a pylon by your expo and Overcharge it. Make sure you can defend the first wave though. Alarak suffers from the "too many upgrades" disease, so just get cloaked Havocs, Slayer/Vanguard upgrades, and spend the rest on forge upgrades and units. Thoughts on Mist Opportunities: Stetman's lines sound like something a really annoying 12-year-old who thought he was the funniest person in the world would say, which is the point of the character I suppose, but it's still annoying. Gameplay of the map is good. We haven't had an escort mission before (still waiting on the colonist one from WOL to be turned into a Co-op mission) but it's not as annoying as it could be. Just keep your army by the bots and kill the enemies, pretty simple. Bonuses can be a pain to walk to with slow commanders though. | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
I haven't unlocked the super Asscendent ability, so I've been mostly playing mass Stalker or Wraithwalker/Vanguard, depending on the map and enemy unit composition. I use the later if I need power and the former if I want mobility or i the enemy is Protoss air or Zerg Scourge/Viper. I don't think the "too many upgrades" disease is a problem for Alarak. Supplicants are one of the better mineral dumps in the game, and I generally don't find his units to cost too much gas. | ||
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Rizare
Canada592 Posts
Also, for Chain of Ascension, is it bad rng or is it low chance that Jin'ara has flavor text when someone plays Alarak on that mission? Out of all times I played on that map today, the flavor text only happened once. Edit: I should add that when I played against terran air, I think the enemy BCs still had energy so Raynor BCs change doesnt apply to the enemy. | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
I also noticed new types of waves, including a first wave that was just 3 Vikings. It eventually transitioned into Terran Air with Marines. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Ground waves aren't a big deal, vanguards aren't nearly as OP(something like triple the damage?) as the campaign ones were, but they aren't bad, once you've gotten a critical mass of say a dozen of them any ground army just melts in combination with alarak charging and waving the whole army into a group. | ||
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DrSeRRoD
United States490 Posts
Now that I have to play another c. 180 Brutal missions for the new achievement though, it definitely won't be with Alarak as he requires a bit more attention than I can deal with in those missions. Still very fun and powerful commander and I look forward to see where he stands compared to the others and how he handles some mutation missions in the hands of a skilled player. | ||
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Rizare
Canada592 Posts
On September 14 2016 18:06 monk wrote: I also noticed new types of waves, including a first wave that was just 3 Vikings. It eventually transitioned into Terran Air with Marines. What else did you encounter? Cause a first wave of 3 vikings is something I've indeed met once and was new for me. Did the AI get changed? -For the void shard mission on Korhal, the first wave was just 3 reapers and then another wave of 3 reapers instead of the usual 1 6 reapers wave with 3 going for each person. Also the attack frequency on that map seem to have significantly increase because I had the impression that I got more warnings than usual for incoming attack wave. -For Temple of the Past, I got the impression the last wave got changed so all 3 waves arrive at the same time instead of usual side waves arriving a bit earlier before the final big wave. -As Kerrigan, terran air seems to have suddenly become a lot tougher than usual because my usual ultra/hydra had some rough time with (more?) banshees and my overseers seem to get sniped more than usual because I actually have drops in max supply which I don't remember ever happening before. | ||
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