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On September 16 2016 09:59 Ouga wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 09:56 Alphazeta33 wrote: How do you guys handle Liberators before Ascendants? They're a pain in the ass without long range or air, and Wraithwalkers are a bit of an investment. Alarak obviously won't die, but the whole Stalker army goes poof while destruction wave is on cooldown. Solution: don't make stalkers - ever. In small numbers libes die from just Alarak pushing them away like 4 times. They get too far out of range and have to readjust and are then pushed again. And if they hit something, it's probably Alarak as you shouldn't have other antiair in their range before you have colos or ascendants. Yeah, stalkers are a waste of resources if you need anything other than a blink army that doesn't die. DPS is far too low to justify using them against most things. They won't win fights against stuff straight up, like ever.
For anti-air, either kill them 50 damage at a time with alarak(or instakill the wave with empowered alarak, that works too).
Alternatively, get like 5-10 upgraded ascendants and just send psiorbs through to kill the trash, and just blast the tanky survivors with like 2k+ spell damage.
Before that you have to time your empowered alarak really well though to deal with big air waves.
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All right, I have to take back what I said about ascendants with an awful computer. Because of the way psi orbs work, you can send them really early and they can still work unlike storm where you want to use it at the right time. As for mind blast, I can 1-f-click 1-f-click instead of f-click f-click to make sure I always use it instead of selecting the enemy. and having ascendants do nothing.
Unfortunately, I expect a nerf as mentionned here because you can even leave Alarak and just send ascendants/supplicants instead and I'm sure that wasn't what Blizzard intended. So for masteries, I'll go Alarak atk and structure overcharge. Since I haven't reach lvl 15 yet, I don't know how are the scalings for both death fleet cooldown reduction and empower me duration are. I'll likely go death fleet CD but if I had a better computer, I would go empower me since I could micro Alarak the entire time.
Edit: I want to ask this since I got lvl 14 but what's the point of knockback increase upgrade for destruction wave? I don't get the impression it helps in any way.
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Okay I made a guide for Alarak on page 35 and I want to make some tweaks:
After playing Alarak on all missions fully leveled on Brutal, I have found the perfect guide to beating even the toughest levels. My guide is NOT meant for mutators because I have yet to test. Please note: This guide is for level 15 Alarak.
Change to Ascendants
On my guide before, I said I loved these units and now I really, really love them. Orb is totally OP, just 8 Ascendants can do around 200+ damage in a line. Thats enough to send virtually everything packing to the void. Whatever is left is going to be so small in size that they are basically just target practice for mind blast. If you have enough power left. Note use Mind Blast on any kind of large mobs from Brutal no matter what, Orb them to death first, Mind Blast the rest.
You want at least 8 Ascendants bunched with around 16 Supplicants minimum at around 15 minutes on virtually any Brutal mission. Then you want Slayers, 2-4 Havocs, a War Prism, and 8 Warp Gates up to 12 at the very end.
What to do on openning for beginners
On all expansions, first pylon at the expansion, then forge as soon as possible, make 1 cannon on expansion and break main rocks then vespine rock with it, put 2 cannons at main and use 1st structure overcharge to clear first wave, unless you are with Karax, or someone who can do this first, then use 1st overcharge on rocks as well as second, do gateway after first wave and build the cybernetics as soon as gateway is done, and at 19 probes make a vespine (Yes really.)
By then use any extra resources for more gateways and do a quick melee upgrade at forge. (This helps a ton mid game.) IMMEDIATELY upgrade slayers to do phasing armor! If you dont do this, its a wipe. I mean make this upgrade before you even make slayers. Alarak should be able to handle any mobs ALONE no supplicants until this is all done, if you cant then you are microing wrong. I've tested this strategy on all maps. A single supplicant can make a gateway for early-mid game and that's an extra Slayer right there. The very first units you want to make is a phasing armor upgraded Slayer (Yes really, supplicants are mostly for Ascendants late game and this strategy ensures survivability until then.) You want to upgrade blink after phasing armor, blink AWAY from enemy and keep alarak away from front until you make supplicants!! Or its a wipe.
Also, upgrade, upgrade, upgrade, upgrade!!! Focus your upgrades, some are way more valuable than others. From best to worse, Phasing Armor, upgraded supplicant shields, then upgraded sacrifice ability for ascendants. Then make sure of course you do the forge upgrades, the upgrades for Alarak specifically that you get at level 14 are useless on Brutal mostly. Since Ascendant Orb makes them obsolete but the 100 percent Knockback upgrade goes great when you use destruction wave TOWARDS your army and your army is consistent of Ascendants and Vanguards but this is counter productive since whatever small amount left such as Aberrations can still do quick massive damage and you can simply micro orb back with ascendants and lose virtually no units. I dont recommend this.
Army consistence for specific mission and strategies for missions
On Temple of the past, Unit/structure composition should be Cannons on front immediately, after hybrids cannon on right. Put 1st pylon at expansion and second at front rocks (Unless you are with Karax, then go offensive, read an offensive map.) Then mass cannons and save up your gas. Immediately begin upgrading your supplicants and ascendants when possible (Around the 8 minute mark you should be at 2/2/2 (dont bother upgrading melee unless you want to go slayer which I recommend for bonus unless your ally can do then dont bother unless you have the resources.) and fully upgraded ascendants and slayers as well as a lot of cannons and a ton of gas. Begin to make a ton of gateways and dont bother doing warp, just pull back army when they are hurt, which should never happen. Mass ascendants and Orb first, mindblast latter. By late game when the 2 thrashers come out and the front enemies come pouring, I had around 20 cannons on front and 30 ascendants on side, took down the thrasher in 3-4 seconds and clearing a path was easy peasy. The back was covered with around 15 cannons left and the side was the only thing my ally had to do. Only. For back I had around 8 ascendants orb the transport and mind blast the hybrids. Used slayers to take down bonus and by late game they should all be dead unless you want to keep making them but 3 slayers < 1 ascendant. That should be it! I had 3 times more kills than my Ally if you care about that.
Mist opportunities This one is really easy early game for alarak since it's often massing zerglings or marines. Only thing to worry about is army placement, keep them ALWAYS close to the extractors since only 2 need to die and they can die in around 2 seconds. Here you want to mass wrathgaurds with air upgrade as first upgrade and vanguards for second with a few ascendants. This is really hard to do on brutal since it requires a bit of early game macro and supplicant micro. If you are up against zerg, instead mass slayers and ascendants. Why do I say this? Because on Brutal you will find Protoss units such as carriers and for Terran the Liberators massing and doing MASSIVE damage. Killing the extractors in seconds. And these are long range and ascendants and slayers often cant reach quick enough. (I emphasize on the QUICK enough.) I once massed slayers against these two races and we lost because on the last one, they are attacking from behind a ledge and my ascendants mindblast/orb and slayers couldn't reach them fast enough. One WILL die. Wrathguards can fix this. vanguards are more of a compliment to wrathgaurds but you can replace vanguards with ascendants and slayers and it will still work. Not as easily however. Since Protoss have high HP often and orbs will do good damage but ascendants will die faster than vanguards against these races on this map.
Void Launch Just go ascendants, Slayer, and Supplicant here and fully upgrade them. Not much to say apart from that, expand as usual with pylon at first expansion and the other to get cannon ready to clear first mobs etc. On the very last wave, keep your ascendant's at the warp gates and mind blast the ships since all you have to do is kill them and merely 10 ascendants should get the job done easily with a few supplicants. this is easy.
Lock and Load Same with Void Launch because you need the Slayers for their quick movement. Since Alaraks weakness is that very thing. Make sure you build cannons at each point and use the saved gas for ascendants. It makes this so much easier. Save the mothership for when you actually need it and believe me, you will need it.
Oblivion Express Wrathgaurd this one and couple it with ascendants. Wrathgaurds will destroy trains in mere seconds, end game they should clear them in like 6 seconds tops. It takes me 3 seconds to destroy them. Orb everything. Put wrathgaurds on the expansion on the ledge and have no more than 10 there. In 3 seconds that's over 2k damage. In 12 seconds the train will die. For the other train, use wrathgaurds on the ledge with the front, first base. Where there is an intersecting line. Do this also when both trains come. Why not do this when the train is only coming to the top side? Makes them less likely to die. Since your army should be pushing back the mobs along with alarak. Put them in the front and they are more vulnerable.
Chain of Ascension First Pylon should be at Ji'narra with forge and cannons before first wave. Have forge in front of cannons. When Hybrid push her back, Make sure you and your ally have a probe near her. It will slow the process immensely. I noticed virtually nobody does this and its very frustrating because this is just so useful and could have stopped sooo many loses on this mission. Use Alarak and with a ton of supplicants to clear first hybrid. (This is where level 15 comes in.) Keep alarak on front line. Dont bother making a cybernetics until hybrid is dead, the rest should be easy as long as you both always keep a probe near her. Mass ascendants, slayers, and supplicants.
The Vermillion Problem This one is probably the toughest on Brutal for Alarak since Alarak has such slow movement speed and you are often needing to run back and defend. You will find yourself at times getting overruned so quickly that you are just fucked and need to rebuild. Mass cannons near your base (Unless you have a better idea.) then go ascendants. This level though is probably the toughest for him, I have yet to lose once to it on brutal with him. This is due to the ramps and me having ascendants to stay back micro orbing them with Ascendants. Keep AT LEAST two supplicants with 2 supplicants at ramp and at most double this with cannons. Make sure to surround your cannons with gateways or they will die quickly. Mass orb when mobs come. You want Slayers, Ascend, and Supplicants as your army. (You will find this is virtually always the most effective.)
Void thrashing Now I cannot stress enough just how badly you want buffed wrathgaurds and vanguards with buffed supplicants on this mission. You of course need maybe 4 ascendants to deal with the low level mobs but wrathgaurds are a necessity. Their rage and damage is so massive that thrashers will really be "dropping like flies". Vanguards can be replaced with slayers against the zerg and kill their scourge before they kill your wrathgaurds.
Rifts of Korhal This is basically the same as Void Thrashing except they dont do damage. Which makes it easier. With this you can simply mass slayers since its so easy and slayers are an APM sink. (Yep you read that right, with wrath you have to keep them away from damage and often times you are running around selecting them singularly. Much easier to blink somewhere.)
Ending notes
Okay, I feel like Ascendants are a necessity for ALL missions on ALL difficulties, especially Brutal. At first I thought they were situational but I was terribly wrong. Their Orbs are basically the only thing that will clear the Brutal mobs fast enough to keep your army alive and the rest of them are mostly for certain missions or Races. If you dont have Ascendants mid or late game, pull your army back and make them if possible. You will wipe if you dont. The Vanguards are mostly for against the Protoss or Trains, the wrathgaurds are best against anything with massively high HP like trains, thrashers, etc. Against the zerg, your worse nightmare is scourge since if you dont orb and pull wrath back quick enough they can wipe your entire wrathgaurd cluster. If you cant handle this APM then go Slayer, Ascendant, and Supplicant instead. However, if you can, you will find the mission to be soo much easier and faster. I didn't speak much about Havocs but this is for the simple fact that you need at least 2 at all times and be ready to make more and keep them fully upgraded. You can mass havocs but I dont suggest, recommend, or even think its possible on brutal without wiping. Definitely not against the zerg. Slayers are like your all around general purpose units that are good for newbs but can make a mission last longer than it needs to be. Vanguards and wrathwalkers almost always do such a better job at pushing things along but you just got to be able to micro your army and macro your base at the same time. With exceptions. You can easily lose them quickly if you run out of ascendants and supplicants or dont know what you are doing.
I feel like Alarak is such a great hero for both beginners and experienced players, his mech army is obviously for experienced players and his bio army is for beginners. His ascendants are like his main units and everything else is up to you to choose. I personally find using all his units to be the most potent at speeding along a mission at the end, especially with Karax or Swann. Since Karax heals your mech army and Swann gives you extra gas for upgrades and ascendants
On an ending note, I want to say the best Synergy by far is Swann. Karax surprisingly doesn't do too well with Alarak on offensive maps. He is probably the worse to be with there. Why? Because Alaraks army is so fragile and it's possible to lose your entire army very quickly if you aren't microing a little. Even worse, his army is costly and takes a while to replace. With him being gas starved and his main units revolving around gas, I think you can understand why this is the case. Even with quick upgrades, his survivability is still sketchy. Defensive maps however surprisingly IMO is best with Karax since Alaraks mech army has such high damage and Karaxes cannons are such great "tanks" and Alaraks army revolves around having these "tanks" on the front lines.Go mech, Split them up, push so Karax can push cannons, use wrathgaurds to take out hybrids, easy.
GG everyone and hope this helped someone!
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On September 17 2016 13:13 Rizare wrote: All right, I have to take back what I said about ascendants with an awful computer. Because of the way psi orbs work, you can send them really early and they can still work unlike storm where you want to use it at the right time. As for mind blast, I can 1-f-click 1-f-click instead of f-click f-click to make sure I always use it instead of selecting the enemy. and having ascendants do nothing.
Unfortunately, I expect a nerf as mentionned here because you can even leave Alarak and just send ascendants/supplicants instead and I'm sure that wasn't what Blizzard intended. So for masteries, I'll go Alarak atk and structure overcharge. Since I haven't reach lvl 15 yet, I don't know how are the scalings for both death fleet cooldown reduction and empower me duration are. I'll likely go death fleet CD but if I had a better computer, I would go empower me since I could micro Alarak the entire time.
Edit: I want to ask this since I got lvl 14 but what's the point of knockback increase upgrade for destruction wave? I don't get the impression it helps in any way.
To reply to your edit, the knockback for destruction wave is meant to throw whatever mobs your enemy has INTO your army or your allies. So if you destruction wave into Vorazuns Void Rays, Swanns Goliaths, etc this is an instant wipe for the enemy's army with virtually no units dying on your allies part. However, this is not a very helpful ability for YOUR army since your army is so fragile and relies on tanks to survive. If you have mechs, definitely dont do this because it takes so long for them to attack and since Aberrations wont die from destruction, they can do massive damage to you. Slayers might be okay, but I dont recommend it. Its a support ability for your ally. The stun upgrade for Alarak has no use on brutal but on hard, it can speed it along. Theoretically.
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On September 16 2016 09:59 Ouga wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 09:56 Alphazeta33 wrote: How do you guys handle Liberators before Ascendants? They're a pain in the ass without long range or air, and Wraithwalkers are a bit of an investment. Alarak obviously won't die, but the whole Stalker army goes poof while destruction wave is on cooldown. Solution: don't make stalkers - ever. In small numbers libes die from just Alarak pushing them away like 4 times. They get too far out of range and have to readjust and are then pushed again. And if they hit something, it's probably Alarak as you shouldn't have other antiair in their range before you have colos or ascendants.
I totally agree with not making Stalkers, but I feel like going mech is a lot more tougher and needs a much higher APM than going stalkers, since for terran you have to pull back wraths, spread vanguards, spread supplicants to keep them as a tank for mech army, and all the while pushing Orbs out. With slayers, you just have to orb, blink, kill, fall back, repeat. Much easier and simpler. The way to counter liberators is simple actually, get out of the circle and mind blast. Worse case you might lose a few stalkers/ascendants, but I personally never had much of a problem. You must not be making enough ascendants and supplicants. Stalkers phasing armor replenishes every 10 seconds and lasts for 2 seconds so 1/5 of the time they are invulnerable. There is usually around 4-8 liberatore's and they can at most kill 8-16 of your stalkers. These are easily replaceable and should not be a problem.
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Finally got to level 15 on Alarak, so it's time for my review. Previous hero reviews here.
Alarak
Recommended masteries: - Alarak Attack Damage. Combat Unit Attack Speed is nice but you won't really have problems in the late game with damage (and Ascendants don't really care about attack speed boosts). Boosting Alarak's damage helps him in his weakest area, the early game. - Death Fleet Cooldown. The Death Fleet is a very strong calldown with a very nice bonus: you can mass recall your army with the Mothership. Mobility tends to be Alarak's biggest problem so this is the clear choice for me. Empower Me generally lasts long enough to kill everything that needs killing anyway. - Structure Overcharge Shield and Attack Speed. Absolutely pick this. You can build a pylon at your natural and clear all the rocks with one overcharge. It changes your pitiful delaying calldown into a ridiculously powerful wave-clearer. You cannot be everywhere you want to be as Alarak, so your global cooldowns should be as strong as possible. And let's just be honest, 15 seconds off a cooldown that should never happen is a terrible option. Any time the cooldown reduction would be relevant early game the structure overcharge bonus will help just as well.
Overall Rating: Ramp - 1/10 without mastery levels, 7/10 with high mastery. Versatility - 10/10. Ascendants > everything. Diversity - 3/10. Several unit compositions, but they all end up being deathballs. Skill - 3/10. Macro is a bit more challenging than other commanders but very simple micro. Durability - 6/10. High HP units but only one defensive ability total and your commander likes to team-kill. Power - 10/10. Supplican'ts are terrible but every other unit does excellent damage. Ascendants are the most OP unit in the game right now.
Additional notes: Alarak suffers from Karax syndrome; all the things that make him really good are locked behind higher levels, so leveling up can be a pain. His only unit with good mobility is the Stalker, so your army tends to crawl around the map and getting caught out of position sucks before uberovercharge. For reinforcements remember to take a War Prism with you or just build your pylons around the map so you can overcharge them.
Edits to come as I play more.
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United States8476 Posts
On September 17 2016 17:21 Jeremy1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay I made a guide for Alarak on page 35 and I want to make some tweaks: After playing Alarak on all missions fully leveled on Brutal, I have found the perfect guide to beating even the toughest levels. My guide is NOT meant for mutators because I have yet to test. Please note: This guide is for level 15 Alarak.Change to AscendantsOn my guide before, I said I loved these units and now I really, really love them. Orb is totally OP, just 8 Ascendants can do around 200+ damage in a line. Thats enough to send virtually everything packing to the void. Whatever is left is going to be so small in size that they are basically just target practice for mind blast. If you have enough power left. Note use Mind Blast on any kind of large mobs from Brutal no matter what, Orb them to death first, Mind Blast the rest.You want at least 8 Ascendants bunched with around 16 Supplicants minimum at around 15 minutes on virtually any Brutal mission. Then you want Slayers, 2-4 Havocs, a War Prism, and 8 Warp Gates up to 12 at the very end. What to do on openning for beginnersOn all expansions, first pylon at the expansion, then forge as soon as possible, make 1 cannon on expansion and break main rocks then vespine rock with it, put 2 cannons at main and use 1st structure overcharge to clear first wave, unless you are with Karax, or someone who can do this first, then use 1st overcharge on rocks as well as second, do gateway after first wave and build the cybernetics as soon as gateway is done, and at 19 probes make a vespine (Yes really.) By then use any extra resources for more gateways and do a quick melee upgrade at forge. (This helps a ton mid game.) IMMEDIATELY upgrade slayers to do phasing armor! If you dont do this, its a wipe. I mean make this upgrade before you even make slayers. Alarak should be able to handle any mobs ALONE no supplicants until this is all done, if you cant then you are microing wrong. I've tested this strategy on all maps. A single supplicant can make a gateway for early-mid game and that's an extra Slayer right there. The very first units you want to make is a phasing armor upgraded Slayer (Yes really, supplicants are mostly for Ascendants late game and this strategy ensures survivability until then.) You want to upgrade blink after phasing armor, blink AWAY from enemy and keep alarak away from front until you make supplicants!! Or its a wipe. Also, upgrade, upgrade, upgrade, upgrade!!! Focus your upgrades, some are way more valuable than others. From best to worse, Phasing Armor, upgraded supplicant shields, then upgraded sacrifice ability for ascendants. Then make sure of course you do the forge upgrades, the upgrades for Alarak specifically that you get at level 14 are useless on Brutal mostly. Since Ascendant Orb makes them obsolete but the 100 percent Knockback upgrade goes great when you use destruction wave TOWARDS your army and your army is consistent of Ascendants and Vanguards but this is counter productive since whatever small amount left such as Aberrations can still do quick massive damage and you can simply micro orb back with ascendants and lose virtually no units. I dont recommend this. Army consistence for specific mission and strategies for missionsOn Temple of the past, Unit/structure composition should be Cannons on front immediately, after hybrids cannon on right. Put 1st pylon at expansion and second at front rocks (Unless you are with Karax, then go offensive, read an offensive map.) Then mass cannons and save up your gas. Immediately begin upgrading your supplicants and ascendants when possible (Around the 8 minute mark you should be at 2/2/2 (dont bother upgrading melee unless you want to go slayer which I recommend for bonus unless your ally can do then dont bother unless you have the resources.) and fully upgraded ascendants and slayers as well as a lot of cannons and a ton of gas. Begin to make a ton of gateways and dont bother doing warp, just pull back army when they are hurt, which should never happen. Mass ascendants and Orb first, mindblast latter. By late game when the 2 thrashers come out and the front enemies come pouring, I had around 20 cannons on front and 30 ascendants on side, took down the thrasher in 3-4 seconds and clearing a path was easy peasy. The back was covered with around 15 cannons left and the side was the only thing my ally had to do. Only. For back I had around 8 ascendants orb the transport and mind blast the hybrids. Used slayers to take down bonus and by late game they should all be dead unless you want to keep making them but 3 slayers < 1 ascendant. That should be it!  I had 3 times more kills than my Ally if you care about that. Mist opportunities This one is really easy early game for alarak since it's often massing zerglings or marines. Only thing to worry about is army placement, keep them ALWAYS close to the extractors since only 2 need to die and they can die in around 2 seconds. Here you want to mass wrathgaurds with air upgrade as first upgrade and vanguards for second with a few ascendants. This is really hard to do on brutal since it requires a bit of early game macro and supplicant micro. If you are up against zerg, instead mass slayers and ascendants. Why do I say this? Because on Brutal you will find Protoss units such as carriers and for Terran the Liberators massing and doing MASSIVE damage. Killing the extractors in seconds. And these are long range and ascendants and slayers often cant reach quick enough. (I emphasize on the QUICK enough.) I once massed slayers against these two races and we lost because on the last one, they are attacking from behind a ledge and my ascendants mindblast/orb and slayers couldn't reach them fast enough. One WILL die. Wrathguards can fix this. vanguards are more of a compliment to wrathgaurds but you can replace vanguards with ascendants and slayers and it will still work. Not as easily however. Since Protoss have high HP often and orbs will do good damage but ascendants will die faster than vanguards against these races on this map. Void Launch Just go ascendants, Slayer, and Supplicant here and fully upgrade them. Not much to say apart from that, expand as usual with pylon at first expansion and the other to get cannon ready to clear first mobs etc. On the very last wave, keep your ascendant's at the warp gates and mind blast the ships since all you have to do is kill them and merely 10 ascendants should get the job done easily with a few supplicants. this is easy. Lock and Load Same with Void Launch because you need the Slayers for their quick movement. Since Alaraks weakness is that very thing. Make sure you build cannons at each point and use the saved gas for ascendants. It makes this so much easier. Save the mothership for when you actually need it and believe me, you will need it. Oblivion Express Wrathgaurd this one and couple it with ascendants. Wrathgaurds will destroy trains in mere seconds, end game they should clear them in like 6 seconds tops. It takes me 3 seconds to destroy them. Orb everything. Put wrathgaurds on the expansion on the ledge and have no more than 10 there. In 3 seconds that's over 2k damage. In 12 seconds the train will die. For the other train, use wrathgaurds on the ledge with the front, first base. Where there is an intersecting line. Do this also when both trains come. Why not do this when the train is only coming to the top side? Makes them less likely to die. Since your army should be pushing back the mobs along with alarak. Put them in the front and they are more vulnerable. Chain of Ascension First Pylon should be at Ji'narra with forge and cannons before first wave. Have forge in front of cannons. When Hybrid push her back, Make sure you and your ally have a probe near her. It will slow the process immensely. I noticed virtually nobody does this and its very frustrating because this is just so useful and could have stopped sooo many loses on this mission. Use Alarak and with a ton of supplicants to clear first hybrid. (This is where level 15 comes in.) Keep alarak on front line. Dont bother making a cybernetics until hybrid is dead, the rest should be easy as long as you both always keep a probe near her. Mass ascendants, slayers, and supplicants. The Vermillion Problem This one is probably the toughest on Brutal for Alarak since Alarak has such slow movement speed and you are often needing to run back and defend. You will find yourself at times getting overruned so quickly that you are just fucked and need to rebuild. Mass cannons near your base (Unless you have a better idea.) then go ascendants. This level though is probably the toughest for him, I have yet to lose once to it on brutal with him. This is due to the ramps and me having ascendants to stay back micro orbing them with Ascendants. Keep AT LEAST two supplicants with 2 supplicants at ramp and at most double this with cannons. Make sure to surround your cannons with gateways or they will die quickly. Mass orb when mobs come. You want Slayers, Ascend, and Supplicants as your army. (You will find this is virtually always the most effective.) Void thrashing Now I cannot stress enough just how badly you want buffed wrathgaurds and vanguards with buffed supplicants on this mission. You of course need maybe 4 ascendants to deal with the low level mobs but wrathgaurds are a necessity. Their rage and damage is so massive that thrashers will really be "dropping like flies". Vanguards can be replaced with slayers against the zerg and kill their scourge before they kill your wrathgaurds. Rifts of Korhal This is basically the same as Void Thrashing except they dont do damage. Which makes it easier. With this you can simply mass slayers since its so easy and slayers are an APM sink. (Yep you read that right, with wrath you have to keep them away from damage and often times you are running around selecting them singularly. Much easier to blink somewhere.) Ending notesOkay, I feel like Ascendants are a necessity for ALL missions on ALL difficulties, especially Brutal. At first I thought they were situational but I was terribly wrong. Their Orbs are basically the only thing that will clear the Brutal mobs fast enough to keep your army alive and the rest of them are mostly for certain missions or Races. If you dont have Ascendants mid or late game, pull your army back and make them if possible. You will wipe if you dont. The Vanguards are mostly for against the Protoss or Trains, the wrathgaurds are best against anything with massively high HP like trains, thrashers, etc. Against the zerg, your worse nightmare is scourge since if you dont orb and pull wrath back quick enough they can wipe your entire wrathgaurd cluster. If you cant handle this APM then go Slayer, Ascendant, and Supplicant instead. However, if you can, you will find the mission to be soo much easier and faster. I didn't speak much about Havocs but this is for the simple fact that you need at least 2 at all times and be ready to make more and keep them fully upgraded. You can mass havocs but I dont suggest, recommend, or even think its possible on brutal without wiping. Definitely not against the zerg. Slayers are like your all around general purpose units that are good for newbs but can make a mission last longer than it needs to be. Vanguards and wrathwalkers almost always do such a better job at pushing things along but you just got to be able to micro your army and macro your base at the same time. With exceptions. You can easily lose them quickly if you run out of ascendants and supplicants or dont know what you are doing. I feel like Alarak is such a great hero for both beginners and experienced players, his mech army is obviously for experienced players and his bio army is for beginners. His ascendants are like his main units and everything else is up to you to choose. I personally find using all his units to be the most potent at speeding along a mission at the end, especially with Karax or Swann. Since Karax heals your mech army and Swann gives you extra gas for upgrades and ascendants On an ending note, I want to say the best Synergy by far is Swann. Karax surprisingly doesn't do too well with Alarak on offensive maps. He is probably the worse to be with there. Why? Because Alaraks army is so fragile and it's possible to lose your entire army very quickly if you aren't microing a little. Even worse, his army is costly and takes a while to replace. With him being gas starved and his main units revolving around gas, I think you can understand why this is the case. Even with quick upgrades, his survivability is still sketchy. Defensive maps however surprisingly IMO is best with Karax since Alaraks mech army has such high damage and Karaxes cannons are such great "tanks" and Alaraks army revolves around having these "tanks" on the front lines.Go mech, Split them up, push so Karax can push cannons, use wrathgaurds to take out hybrids, easy. GG everyone and hope this helped someone! I actually disagree with a lot of this. Mainly:
- You should never open forge as Alarak. It needlessly delays your econ and tech as you can always defend everything without a forge.
- If you plan to get Ascendents, then open Ascendents. There is no reason to open Slayers.
- Alarak doesn't need extra gas. If anything, he could use extra minerals. He's probably the least gas-intensive hero outside of Raynor.
- 6 Gateways is enough with good macro the entire game.
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I really hope ascendants get a nerf, with a corresponding buff to everything else. Right now a group of ascendants which you've built up over the course of a game can eliminate entire armies at once. 700 damage nuke, 35 dps stacking AoE that does more damage than storm. Absolutely nuts.
I really want stalkers to be a good unit, but even with phasing armor the fact that you have to push stuff in a lot of the missions just means that they melt, and stalker dps has never been particularly good.
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I've started going ascendants every game and yeah, they're about as OP as described.
Regardless of composition, instead of "deathballing" I always micro Alarak pretty far ahead of the army group with F3. It's not too micro intensive and he eats a lot of damage that would normally wipe stalkers and wraithwalkers. I think this is why stalkers were working for me before, they took very little damage cause everyone tried to gang up on Alarak.
His economy is a breath of fresh air from the the mainly gas-starved commanders. Very mineral-heavy unless going fast robo or Ascendants. Minerals continue to eat up most resources into the late game as you replace dozens and dozens of Supplicants.
It would be interesting to see Ascendants get nerfed but for Alarak to get a taunt on a decent cooldown.
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On September 17 2016 20:19 monk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 17:21 Jeremy1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay I made a guide for Alarak on page 35 and I want to make some tweaks: After playing Alarak on all missions fully leveled on Brutal, I have found the perfect guide to beating even the toughest levels. My guide is NOT meant for mutators because I have yet to test. Please note: This guide is for level 15 Alarak.Change to AscendantsOn my guide before, I said I loved these units and now I really, really love them. Orb is totally OP, just 8 Ascendants can do around 200+ damage in a line. Thats enough to send virtually everything packing to the void. Whatever is left is going to be so small in size that they are basically just target practice for mind blast. If you have enough power left. Note use Mind Blast on any kind of large mobs from Brutal no matter what, Orb them to death first, Mind Blast the rest.You want at least 8 Ascendants bunched with around 16 Supplicants minimum at around 15 minutes on virtually any Brutal mission. Then you want Slayers, 2-4 Havocs, a War Prism, and 8 Warp Gates up to 12 at the very end. What to do on openning for beginnersOn all expansions, first pylon at the expansion, then forge as soon as possible, make 1 cannon on expansion and break main rocks then vespine rock with it, put 2 cannons at main and use 1st structure overcharge to clear first wave, unless you are with Karax, or someone who can do this first, then use 1st overcharge on rocks as well as second, do gateway after first wave and build the cybernetics as soon as gateway is done, and at 19 probes make a vespine (Yes really.) By then use any extra resources for more gateways and do a quick melee upgrade at forge. (This helps a ton mid game.) IMMEDIATELY upgrade slayers to do phasing armor! If you dont do this, its a wipe. I mean make this upgrade before you even make slayers. Alarak should be able to handle any mobs ALONE no supplicants until this is all done, if you cant then you are microing wrong. I've tested this strategy on all maps. A single supplicant can make a gateway for early-mid game and that's an extra Slayer right there. The very first units you want to make is a phasing armor upgraded Slayer (Yes really, supplicants are mostly for Ascendants late game and this strategy ensures survivability until then.) You want to upgrade blink after phasing armor, blink AWAY from enemy and keep alarak away from front until you make supplicants!! Or its a wipe. Also, upgrade, upgrade, upgrade, upgrade!!! Focus your upgrades, some are way more valuable than others. From best to worse, Phasing Armor, upgraded supplicant shields, then upgraded sacrifice ability for ascendants. Then make sure of course you do the forge upgrades, the upgrades for Alarak specifically that you get at level 14 are useless on Brutal mostly. Since Ascendant Orb makes them obsolete but the 100 percent Knockback upgrade goes great when you use destruction wave TOWARDS your army and your army is consistent of Ascendants and Vanguards but this is counter productive since whatever small amount left such as Aberrations can still do quick massive damage and you can simply micro orb back with ascendants and lose virtually no units. I dont recommend this. Army consistence for specific mission and strategies for missionsOn Temple of the past, Unit/structure composition should be Cannons on front immediately, after hybrids cannon on right. Put 1st pylon at expansion and second at front rocks (Unless you are with Karax, then go offensive, read an offensive map.) Then mass cannons and save up your gas. Immediately begin upgrading your supplicants and ascendants when possible (Around the 8 minute mark you should be at 2/2/2 (dont bother upgrading melee unless you want to go slayer which I recommend for bonus unless your ally can do then dont bother unless you have the resources.) and fully upgraded ascendants and slayers as well as a lot of cannons and a ton of gas. Begin to make a ton of gateways and dont bother doing warp, just pull back army when they are hurt, which should never happen. Mass ascendants and Orb first, mindblast latter. By late game when the 2 thrashers come out and the front enemies come pouring, I had around 20 cannons on front and 30 ascendants on side, took down the thrasher in 3-4 seconds and clearing a path was easy peasy. The back was covered with around 15 cannons left and the side was the only thing my ally had to do. Only. For back I had around 8 ascendants orb the transport and mind blast the hybrids. Used slayers to take down bonus and by late game they should all be dead unless you want to keep making them but 3 slayers < 1 ascendant. That should be it!  I had 3 times more kills than my Ally if you care about that. Mist opportunities This one is really easy early game for alarak since it's often massing zerglings or marines. Only thing to worry about is army placement, keep them ALWAYS close to the extractors since only 2 need to die and they can die in around 2 seconds. Here you want to mass wrathgaurds with air upgrade as first upgrade and vanguards for second with a few ascendants. This is really hard to do on brutal since it requires a bit of early game macro and supplicant micro. If you are up against zerg, instead mass slayers and ascendants. Why do I say this? Because on Brutal you will find Protoss units such as carriers and for Terran the Liberators massing and doing MASSIVE damage. Killing the extractors in seconds. And these are long range and ascendants and slayers often cant reach quick enough. (I emphasize on the QUICK enough.) I once massed slayers against these two races and we lost because on the last one, they are attacking from behind a ledge and my ascendants mindblast/orb and slayers couldn't reach them fast enough. One WILL die. Wrathguards can fix this. vanguards are more of a compliment to wrathgaurds but you can replace vanguards with ascendants and slayers and it will still work. Not as easily however. Since Protoss have high HP often and orbs will do good damage but ascendants will die faster than vanguards against these races on this map. Void Launch Just go ascendants, Slayer, and Supplicant here and fully upgrade them. Not much to say apart from that, expand as usual with pylon at first expansion and the other to get cannon ready to clear first mobs etc. On the very last wave, keep your ascendant's at the warp gates and mind blast the ships since all you have to do is kill them and merely 10 ascendants should get the job done easily with a few supplicants. this is easy. Lock and Load Same with Void Launch because you need the Slayers for their quick movement. Since Alaraks weakness is that very thing. Make sure you build cannons at each point and use the saved gas for ascendants. It makes this so much easier. Save the mothership for when you actually need it and believe me, you will need it. Oblivion Express Wrathgaurd this one and couple it with ascendants. Wrathgaurds will destroy trains in mere seconds, end game they should clear them in like 6 seconds tops. It takes me 3 seconds to destroy them. Orb everything. Put wrathgaurds on the expansion on the ledge and have no more than 10 there. In 3 seconds that's over 2k damage. In 12 seconds the train will die. For the other train, use wrathgaurds on the ledge with the front, first base. Where there is an intersecting line. Do this also when both trains come. Why not do this when the train is only coming to the top side? Makes them less likely to die. Since your army should be pushing back the mobs along with alarak. Put them in the front and they are more vulnerable. Chain of Ascension First Pylon should be at Ji'narra with forge and cannons before first wave. Have forge in front of cannons. When Hybrid push her back, Make sure you and your ally have a probe near her. It will slow the process immensely. I noticed virtually nobody does this and its very frustrating because this is just so useful and could have stopped sooo many loses on this mission. Use Alarak and with a ton of supplicants to clear first hybrid. (This is where level 15 comes in.) Keep alarak on front line. Dont bother making a cybernetics until hybrid is dead, the rest should be easy as long as you both always keep a probe near her. Mass ascendants, slayers, and supplicants. The Vermillion Problem This one is probably the toughest on Brutal for Alarak since Alarak has such slow movement speed and you are often needing to run back and defend. You will find yourself at times getting overruned so quickly that you are just fucked and need to rebuild. Mass cannons near your base (Unless you have a better idea.) then go ascendants. This level though is probably the toughest for him, I have yet to lose once to it on brutal with him. This is due to the ramps and me having ascendants to stay back micro orbing them with Ascendants. Keep AT LEAST two supplicants with 2 supplicants at ramp and at most double this with cannons. Make sure to surround your cannons with gateways or they will die quickly. Mass orb when mobs come. You want Slayers, Ascend, and Supplicants as your army. (You will find this is virtually always the most effective.) Void thrashing Now I cannot stress enough just how badly you want buffed wrathgaurds and vanguards with buffed supplicants on this mission. You of course need maybe 4 ascendants to deal with the low level mobs but wrathgaurds are a necessity. Their rage and damage is so massive that thrashers will really be "dropping like flies". Vanguards can be replaced with slayers against the zerg and kill their scourge before they kill your wrathgaurds. Rifts of Korhal This is basically the same as Void Thrashing except they dont do damage. Which makes it easier. With this you can simply mass slayers since its so easy and slayers are an APM sink. (Yep you read that right, with wrath you have to keep them away from damage and often times you are running around selecting them singularly. Much easier to blink somewhere.) Ending notesOkay, I feel like Ascendants are a necessity for ALL missions on ALL difficulties, especially Brutal. At first I thought they were situational but I was terribly wrong. Their Orbs are basically the only thing that will clear the Brutal mobs fast enough to keep your army alive and the rest of them are mostly for certain missions or Races. If you dont have Ascendants mid or late game, pull your army back and make them if possible. You will wipe if you dont. The Vanguards are mostly for against the Protoss or Trains, the wrathgaurds are best against anything with massively high HP like trains, thrashers, etc. Against the zerg, your worse nightmare is scourge since if you dont orb and pull wrath back quick enough they can wipe your entire wrathgaurd cluster. If you cant handle this APM then go Slayer, Ascendant, and Supplicant instead. However, if you can, you will find the mission to be soo much easier and faster. I didn't speak much about Havocs but this is for the simple fact that you need at least 2 at all times and be ready to make more and keep them fully upgraded. You can mass havocs but I dont suggest, recommend, or even think its possible on brutal without wiping. Definitely not against the zerg. Slayers are like your all around general purpose units that are good for newbs but can make a mission last longer than it needs to be. Vanguards and wrathwalkers almost always do such a better job at pushing things along but you just got to be able to micro your army and macro your base at the same time. With exceptions. You can easily lose them quickly if you run out of ascendants and supplicants or dont know what you are doing. I feel like Alarak is such a great hero for both beginners and experienced players, his mech army is obviously for experienced players and his bio army is for beginners. His ascendants are like his main units and everything else is up to you to choose. I personally find using all his units to be the most potent at speeding along a mission at the end, especially with Karax or Swann. Since Karax heals your mech army and Swann gives you extra gas for upgrades and ascendants On an ending note, I want to say the best Synergy by far is Swann. Karax surprisingly doesn't do too well with Alarak on offensive maps. He is probably the worse to be with there. Why? Because Alaraks army is so fragile and it's possible to lose your entire army very quickly if you aren't microing a little. Even worse, his army is costly and takes a while to replace. With him being gas starved and his main units revolving around gas, I think you can understand why this is the case. Even with quick upgrades, his survivability is still sketchy. Defensive maps however surprisingly IMO is best with Karax since Alaraks mech army has such high damage and Karaxes cannons are such great "tanks" and Alaraks army revolves around having these "tanks" on the front lines.Go mech, Split them up, push so Karax can push cannons, use wrathgaurds to take out hybrids, easy. GG everyone and hope this helped someone! I actually disagree with a lot of this. Mainly: - You should never open forge as Alarak. It needlessly delays your econ and tech as you can always defend everything without a forge.
- If you plan to get Ascendents, then open Ascendents. There is no reason to open Slayers.
- Alarak doesn't need extra gas. If anything, he could use extra minerals. He's probably the least gas-intensive hero outside of Raynor.
- 6 Gateways is enough with good macro the entire game.
Indeed... Jeremy1 I think you would find a lot more success if you just cut slayers entirely out of your play style. Alarak and supplicants can handle everything until you have ascendants on the field. I never really make more than 4-6 slayers, and that is only if there is super early air or I'm going robo before ascendants.
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On September 17 2016 17:49 Jeremy1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 09:59 Ouga wrote:On September 16 2016 09:56 Alphazeta33 wrote: How do you guys handle Liberators before Ascendants? They're a pain in the ass without long range or air, and Wraithwalkers are a bit of an investment. Alarak obviously won't die, but the whole Stalker army goes poof while destruction wave is on cooldown. Solution: don't make stalkers - ever. In small numbers libes die from just Alarak pushing them away like 4 times. They get too far out of range and have to readjust and are then pushed again. And if they hit something, it's probably Alarak as you shouldn't have other antiair in their range before you have colos or ascendants. I totally agree with not making Stalkers, but I feel like going mech is a lot more tougher and needs a much higher APM than going stalkers, since for terran you have to pull back wraths, spread vanguards, spread supplicants to keep them as a tank for mech army, and all the while pushing Orbs out. With slayers, you just have to orb, blink, kill, fall back, repeat. Much easier and simpler. The way to counter liberators is simple actually, get out of the circle and mind blast. Worse case you might lose a few stalkers/ascendants, but I personally never had much of a problem. You must not be making enough ascendants and supplicants. Stalkers phasing armor replenishes every 10 seconds and lasts for 2 seconds so 1/5 of the time they are invulnerable. There is usually around 4-8 liberatore's and they can at most kill 8-16 of your stalkers. These are easily replaceable and should not be a problem.
I think it's you who's making this harder than it has to be I certainly did not micro wraithwalkers at all, other than obvious stuff like move part of units away from the way of nuke on current mutator. It could be macro issue, maybe you just didn't have enough. In 200pop army you can easily have something crazy like 14 wraithwalkers. They just eat thru everything no problem, and if something starts hitting, Alarak pushes them away, and only units that ever die are the supplicants. You certainly have to micro a lot to get all out of stalkers. It's not my invention to call Alarak "amove commander", and it's exactly for this reason: robo armies are not microed at all.
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I'm treating this thread like it's "ask anything about co-op" with the following question:
What happens if two people who search for different things get into same game? Since the beginning I've sometimes seen (Hard) under my ally's name, implying his search difficulty. How does this affect the game when I searched as brutal? I'm pretty sure it'll count as brutal win for me, does it for ally? Is the difficulty of mission something between brutal and hard? Is it just brutal for both but he doesn't get brutal win for it? Does anyone know anything about this?
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On September 20 2016 12:10 Ouga wrote: I'm treating this thread like it's "ask anything about co-op" with the following question:
What happens if two people who search for different things get into same game? Since the beginning I've sometimes seen (Hard) under my ally's name, implying his search difficulty. How does this affect the game when I searched as brutal? I'm pretty sure it'll count as brutal win for me, does it for ally? Is the difficulty of mission something between brutal and hard? Is it just brutal for both but he doesn't get brutal win for it? Does anyone know anything about this?
Since the beginning, there has been a chance to match a brutal picker with a hard picker. This is probably what happens when one of them in the queue couldn't find a match with their own difficulty. Basically what happens is that half the attack waves are "hard difficulty" waves and half are "brutal". Plus you have to suffer through the slower "hard" speed. But you get the full brutal reward, and from what I heard, they only get the hard reward.
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I've been leveling Abathur up and my vipers dont seem to have abilities, the upgrades for ability ranges and whatnot are there but all they can do is attack air units, is this normal or am i missing something?
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Haven't played this in a year. Just saw that there's two new heroes, but they're pay to play. At the same time, I have an achievement for buying Karax? Even though I never did? Is Karax p4p now and they just gave it to people who played him before? any plans to make the other two new guys free at some point in the future? Just wondering. Don't really play the game enough to warrant a purchase.
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On September 23 2016 19:26 Gandling wrote: I've been leveling Abathur up and my vipers dont seem to have abilities, the upgrades for ability ranges and whatnot are there but all they can do is attack air units, is this normal or am i missing something? I just played him and vipers did have all their abilities, so I saw no issues. But I'm maxed with him, so maybe there's a bug with levelling up Abathur. You should post it in the bnet forum if you see it again. I noticed that since the patch Zagara's bile launchers do no damage at all, which is a pretty big bug.
On September 23 2016 22:47 Fighter wrote: Haven't played this in a year. Just saw that there's two new heroes, but they're pay to play. At the same time, I have an achievement for buying Karax? Even though I never did? Is Karax p4p now and they just gave it to people who played him before? any plans to make the other two new guys free at some point in the future? Just wondering. Don't really play the game enough to warrant a purchase. Karax was always free. I doubt they'll ever make Abathur or Alarak free, but I could imagine them doing some bundle deal when there are three or so p2p commanders out there.
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Hey.guys Quick question: just me or are bile laumchers for Zagara bugged? I remember the Balls not doing any damage at all yesterday? Neither to air nor ground damage, even tho i spammed their attack.
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Thanks for clearing that up and linking a source :D Should be fixed pretty soon then, sad it happened tho.Was going to play Zagara this week only (and nothings more fun than bile launcher volleyballs :D)
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