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On October 16 2016 06:32 BaneRiders wrote:I may be a bit late to the party but something occurred to me today. I played the mutation on hard with random partners, and it turned out some of them played on brutal. I teamed up with one of them and we played both on brutal a couple of times with the same composition as before. It is difficult for me to judge based on a few games of course, but I did have a feeling that it got more difficult when both were playing on brutal instead of hard/brutal. I noticed for sure the different SCV speed (played Raynor) between hard and brutal, and another thing was that when playing hard/brutal, it actually counted as brutal in the achievements counter, but I only got the additional XP when I had selected brutal myself. Is this common knowledge since 1994 or something? Is there a real difference when playing hard/brutal vs brutal/brutal or pure imagination from my side? 
It's pretty much the 1994 common knowledge.
Brutal is played on Fastest speed, while Hard is not. Brutal also has more difficult waves.
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On October 16 2016 06:39 Rehio wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2016 06:32 BaneRiders wrote:I may be a bit late to the party but something occurred to me today. I played the mutation on hard with random partners, and it turned out some of them played on brutal. I teamed up with one of them and we played both on brutal a couple of times with the same composition as before. It is difficult for me to judge based on a few games of course, but I did have a feeling that it got more difficult when both were playing on brutal instead of hard/brutal. I noticed for sure the different SCV speed (played Raynor) between hard and brutal, and another thing was that when playing hard/brutal, it actually counted as brutal in the achievements counter, but I only got the additional XP when I had selected brutal myself. Is this common knowledge since 1994 or something? Is there a real difference when playing hard/brutal vs brutal/brutal or pure imagination from my side? It's pretty much the 1994 common knowledge. Brutal is played on Fastest speed, while Hard is not. Brutal also has more difficult waves.
So how does it work with the attack waves when one plays on brutal and the other on hard? Is it a bit harder compared to two people playing on hard and a bit easier compared to two people playing on brutal? Or is it the same as if both would be playing on brutal?
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IT is indeed a bit harder than both on Hard,and easier than both on brutal.
As far as im aware,the attack timings Change and then alternate attack waves some being Hard sized and then some being brutal sized - as in more units
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On October 16 2016 06:48 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2016 06:39 Rehio wrote:On October 16 2016 06:32 BaneRiders wrote:I may be a bit late to the party but something occurred to me today. I played the mutation on hard with random partners, and it turned out some of them played on brutal. I teamed up with one of them and we played both on brutal a couple of times with the same composition as before. It is difficult for me to judge based on a few games of course, but I did have a feeling that it got more difficult when both were playing on brutal instead of hard/brutal. I noticed for sure the different SCV speed (played Raynor) between hard and brutal, and another thing was that when playing hard/brutal, it actually counted as brutal in the achievements counter, but I only got the additional XP when I had selected brutal myself. Is this common knowledge since 1994 or something? Is there a real difference when playing hard/brutal vs brutal/brutal or pure imagination from my side? It's pretty much the 1994 common knowledge. Brutal is played on Fastest speed, while Hard is not. Brutal also has more difficult waves. So how does it work with the attack waves when one plays on brutal and the other on hard? Is it a bit harder compared to two people playing on hard and a bit easier compared to two people playing on brutal? Or is it the same as if both would be playing on brutal?
Co-op modes has more level of difficulty than just Casual -> Normal -> Hard -> Brutal. If your partner queued for Brutal and you queued for Hard, the game's difficulty is Brutal-Hard. You will get experience for a Hard map while the other guy get Brutal exp as well as any achievement progress for Brutal.
If both players queued for brutal, the level will be Brutal-Brutal. Brutal-Hard is slightly harder than Hard-Hard, but Brutal-Brutal is the significantly harder than Brutal-Hard.
(This was confirmed by today's Community Feedback posts, where David Kim confirmed that game speed should be faster only when both players queued for Brutal)
From someone's post on the subject a while back. Only real reference I can find, to be honest. I'm not sure the actual mechanics have ever been posted?
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United States8476 Posts
See: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20303494
Good changes overall.
- Guardian Shell nerf hurts, but I can see it being deserved.
- Guardian Shell vs Shield Overcharge mastery might be a lot closer now.
- If medics can heal BCs, it'll be a huge buff to BC, but still probably not enough.
- Shadow Guard change is good.
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Wow, did not expect the Guardian Shell nerf. I could see why Emergency Recall got hit but Vorazun has plenty of other tricks up her sleeve. Artanis's only really good ability is Guardian Shell and now that's significantly worse. Guess they want people using Shield Overcharge more, but I'd really like to see a better corresponding buff for Artanis. Been thinking of things like Tempests get 10 air range as well with +5 damage per upgrade instead of +3, maybe disintegrate actually explodes on unit death like the tooltip says, add a research for Reavers to hit air at reduced damage/aoe, let HT storms stack, etc. I'll wait and see how good the reduction on Shield Overcharge is, but it's not looking that great for Artanis in the future imo. (BTW, never saw a friendly protoss get the speed buff when warping in on my power field in the first place, dunno what the last change was talking about.)
Raynor Medics healing Mech is a step in the right direction, but I feel like it misses the point a bit. Going mech is tough since you spend a lot of gas on repairs, but with this new patch you'll spend a lot of gas on Medics instead. I think you'll end up spending less overall though, and the damage reduction is extremely nice as a partner bonus (especially with Immortals).
Don't know that less drill research time will cut it for Swann. If you put full points into drill mastery you can barely get an armory up when it finishes, let alone enough money to start researching the upgrades. I think you'll get maybe one more use of both abilities per mission with full points in this mastery, and that's really not worth it when Swann's biggest problem (the early game) is helped so much by Vespene Drone mastery. Now, if drill mastery ALSO reduced the ability cooldown time, that'd be a different matter.
Nice quality of life changes for Vorazun, especially the Destruction Wave fix. That almost never made a difference but was still annoying.
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Damn, what a big nerf for Artanis. Now to see whether the shield overcharge mastery will be worth it.
Meanwhile, looking at the bug fixes, the notable changes to jump to me are:
-Supplicants now benefitting from the havocs' range increase (so now you can more easily take advantage of Alarak sacrificing supplicants for his lvl 15 and the added aoe at lvl 7 or 8?)
-Bill launchers can do damage again
-Rift to Korhal were too frequent and wasn't intended so it has been fixed.
-Workers can't keep the xenon crystals when recalled by Vorazun dark pylons on Vermillion Problem
-Infested units from certain mutators now drop ressources when assimilation aura for Kerrigan is activated
************Heroic units are now properly feared for 5 seconds by the Fear mutator.
That's a pretty big deal breaker.
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Thoughts on Nova? Tips for levelling?
My thoughts after a few games:
1. She seems super gas starved.
2. Taking the expo is kinda slow, but it seems like 3 railgun turrets is the sweetspot.
3. Griffin airstrike and drone calldowns are AMAZING and should be abused as often as possible.
4. I think Ravens should be maxed.
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Yay I can play with bile launchers again!
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Anyone find info on Nova's masteries yet?
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On October 19 2016 02:06 APurpleCow wrote:
Thoughts on Nova? Tips for levelling?
My thoughts after a few games:
1. She seems super gas starved.
2. Taking the expo is kinda slow, but it seems like 3 railgun turrets is the sweetspot.
3. Griffin airstrike and drone calldowns are AMAZING and should be abused as often as possible.
4. I think Ravens should be maxed.
1. agree
2. i guess early marines does the same work?
3. agree, TBH i think the cd for airstrike would be nerfed
4. Rax: Marauder does good dmg and are tanky enough. Marines for early games. Ghosts, should be great only after getting the upgrades, needa try them out later.
Factory: Goliath, tanks and hellion are situational.
VS: Ravens seriously under priced. Liberator similar to ghosts (need upgrade). Banshee for mid-late game when you have enough gases.
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Just from initial impressions Ghosts are super strong vs. toss, the EMP does a ton of work if you're willing to micro the cast. Beyond that Siege tanks with Spider Mines are again very strong, they're a good mineral dump and are incredible for any defensive mission. Only note is that I'm looking forward to the army mobility with the tanks as they move SOOO SLOW compared to vultures when you're trying to spider mine up the whole map, plus you want to get tanks in a good spot to siege up
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Okay for those wondering how to play Nova as a level 1.
Here are some tips:
You want Ravens ASAP. And I mean ASAP. Mostly because their cooldowns are long and also because they are the ONLY way to heal your army and believe me, even with the defensive drones being OP, they still need to be healed.
Always use one defensive drone per wave!!! So lets say you are dealing with your wave and your allies, then use two. This is so that you always have at least 1 ready just in case the shit hits the fan and also because you really... Only just need 1. They are that awesome.
Clear rocks with your railway turret. They cost 200 minerals, yes, but you can salvage them for their FULL resources. This is not optional, it's the only way to clear rocks quickly. You need 2-3 depending on if you are going mech, get 2, if you are going BIO, get 3. This is to ensure you can transition to mech quickly and only go quick mech if your ally is Karax, Swann, or anyone who can handle the first couple of waves. I do not recommend this starting out.
Novas defensive turrets are totally OP. Use multiple engineering bays to shield them since they have twice the amount of HP and they are amazing walls. Practically indestructible! Then place missiles in front, then railway guns in back. Unless you are against terran, then go the other way around. (Siege tanks.)
Upgrade a lot! These are vital to your expensive units survival and focus first on your specific unit upgrades before going for their general upgrades. (For instance, research Super Stem Packs first before researching Melee ground weapon upgrades.)
Do not play Nova on Brutal until level 7 because you'd only be holding your ally back until she can get the automated refineries which grant 12 free supply and keeps her mostly from getting gas blocked.
Good Synergies:
Raynor for his medics, go BIO for Raynor until Level 7. Try and get his medics to heal your units.
Swann of course, everybody is good with Swann, but especially Nova for her totally OP Liberators, upgrades, and extremely OP ghosts, for his OP Vessels to heal you, and for his awesome extra gas. Go Mech at first until level 7 then go Mech with Ghosts with Ghosts fully upgraded as well as mech. You will have the gas, probably 2k by the end of the game, and you will be OP as hell.
Karax is amazing with her, mostly because of his Chrono which lets you not only get units quickly out on the field which you will find you will have a problem doing but also because you can quickly upgrade those units. And even more so because of his defensive capabilities and how Nova is so amazing as an offensive character. He is the best Synergy so far.
Karagan as well, surprised? You shouldn't be, her completely underused Greater Nydulus and her ability to handle the first 3 waves at least makes her great. This allows you to focus on upgrades and to go out there with her helping her kill. You wont need units until you are mostly upgraded and her Nydulus allows you to drop your OP units right on top of entire waves. Go bio with her and focus on ground units. Pull out defensive drones as soon as you jump on top of a wave and its GG. Wave is dead, even on Brutal.
I want to also say Vorazun is good with Nova as well, though her emergency recall did get nerfed, your units will often be dying every 4 minutes at most anyways. If you focus on making a lot of Ghosts and banshees with the cloak upgrade for banshees you will find these units nearly never die. Though honestly, the Synergy with Vorazun isnt very great since it takes a while for both of you to get units on the field and that makes the first bit of the game really tough since Nova isnt too great at handling waves by herself.
If you want to be power leveled as a level 1 with a friend, use Karax. Have your friend warn you before Chrono wave and make sure you are ready. Make SCVs with the first chrono wave saving resources. After that you should have enough SCVs to complete both bases, on second chrono focus on BIO and ground Mech upgrades and throw out as many Ravens as possible. (THIS IS ESSENTIAL!) You should be able to handle entire waves by yourself as long as you have enough Ravens and BIO/Mech army. Make sure your Ravens don't die, use seeker missiles like they are going out of style. These alone will clear the entire waves. Turrets will clean up the trash. Karax doesn't really need to do anything apart from well place Chronos and defend, as long as you aren't against Zerg. (Watch out for Scourge against Zerg!!!)
Units:
Ravens are the most OP unit in her arsenal. Seeker missiles do massive AOE and Turrets clean up what's left. Along with them being able to heal your army. Make Ravens as soon as economically possible.
Ghosts are another, especially when you unlock their upgrade cache. They may not seem very powerful but remember, they are ALWAYS cloaked, have high HP, and their Snipe can clean a BIO army very quickly, especially against the Protoss. (You might think against Zerg but this is not the case, go Hellbats to clean them up.)
Hellbats are generally not very good, unless you are just trying to dump resources or are against the Zerg. They are great against the Zerg only rivaled by Tanks in Siege mode.
Goliaths are great in general but amazing against the Zerg since they can clear Scourge decently fast without getting hit and can also handle many ground units.
Liberators are amazing in generally as well but they are the second most OP unit she has, only rivaled by the Ravens and I'd rank Ghosts as the third most powerful unit. Why? Their AOE is great against Scourge if you can handle the APM, their defense mod is able to clear out entire ground forces and Hybrids easily, their Air support is best to none, and well, they kill basically everything and once you get their upgrade to attack structures, they are vital in maps where you have destroy structures. They are like Alaraks Wraithwalkers but way more OP and useful.
Siege tanks are around the 4th best units, in Brutal they are essential for their AOE, their ability to transform and provide support is vital, since the only other AOE Nova has is herself and Seeker Missiles. Tanks and Liberators are the way to go. They are great against Thrashers, Trains, etc. They also are great against Zerg and well, you always want at least 1 set of them on the field.
Marines are great resource dumps and same with marauders, Marauders are great against Thrashers when you get their Munitions upgrade and Marines basically cant die once you get their super stimpack. They are not essential however and Marauders are best against Protoss and Marines are best against everything.
Banshees are great against Protoss and against Zerg they are terrible since the Scourge will just destroy them if you cant handle the APM. Even then it's risky. I really want to say something great about Banshees but they aren't that great compared to most other units and I'd really only recommend them if you are with Vorazun with their cloak upgrade.
Well that's it for the units! Here is what you want to have no matter what: At least 1 set of tanks, as many ravens as possible, you can never have enough, and at least 1 set of liberators. This is no matter what, since these units are so OP and great in general. The rest is up to you to decide! Once you get the Ghosts upgrades, you will want at least one set of them as well. Their snipe ability and upgrade is totally OP.
Well that's it! I hope this helps someone!
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Personally I like opening build:
2 gass (automated)
CC (at natural)
barracks+tech lab
marauder squard + nova clear rocks
I prefer it to rail turret expand.
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United States8476 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:34 Tuczniak wrote:
Personally I like opening build:
2 gass (automated)
CC (at natural)
barracks+tech lab
marauder squard + nova clear rocks
I prefer it to rail turret expand.
I prefer:
2 gas
CC at natural
Barracks
Marines
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I think the main post needs the power rankings at the top updated; There's been a lot of balance changes since it was last updated (Huge vorazun early game nerfs for example)
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What's the best opening build for vorazun now? I'm going for 4 quick stalkers but is there any better way to break the expo rocks quickly?
The guardian shield nerf was a bit of a blessing in disguise since now you can actually replace zealots with higher tech units at a reasonable rate once you max out. Still a bummer for mutations but makes regular coop a bit more fun.
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I never felt it was particularly difficult to unload unwanted units once you max out, there's always plenty of static D to throw them at...
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EPT
