On October 22 2015 11:01 ShambhalaWar wrote: The claim that afreeca supports match-fixers just because they don't ban them is like a therapist saying I support murder because I tried to help someone that committed murder. Or claiming the same thing about a supermarket that sold the same person food.
No, those are terrible analogies and people need to stop making poor and misleading comparisons. This is nothing to do with banning people from food, or computers or even the internet. Its to do with ousting matchfixers in such a way as to prevent them from being further associated with the professional side of a competitive activity in which they matchfixed. No more, no less.
This situation is like the organisers of the Tour de France advertising Lance Armstrong cycling lessons. You can make all the arguments in the world that they're not actually allowing him into the competition and they're merely providing a service by allowing such an advertisement, but they're still enabling him to make money from the sport whilst simultaneously running a huge and important competition that he was found cheating in and undermining the legitimacy of.
Its just totally incompatible and if Afreeca has any shred of respect for the SC2 esports scene in general or the GSL in particular then they should either ban these people OR give up the GSL.
On October 22 2015 11:01 ShambhalaWar wrote: The claim that afreeca supports match-fixers just because they don't ban them is like a therapist saying I support murder because I tried to help someone that committed murder. Or claiming the same thing about a supermarket that sold the same person food.
No, those are terrible analogies and people need to stop making poor and misleading comparisons. This is nothing to do with banning people from food, or computers or even the internet. Its to do with ousting matchfixers in such a way as to prevent them from being further associated with the professional side of a competitive activity in which they matchfixed. No more, no less.
This situation is like the organisers of the Tour de France advertising Lance Armstrong cycling lessons. You can make all the arguments in the world that they're not actually allowing him into the competition and they're merely providing a service by allowing such an advertisement, but they're still enabling him to make money from the sport whilst simultaneously running a huge and important competition that he was found cheating in and undermining the legitimacy of.
Its just totally incompatible and if Afreeca has any shred of respect for the SC2 esports scene in general or the GSL in particular then they should either ban these people OR give up the GSL.
In my opinion he should be allowed to make money off sc2.
Kespa shouldn't be allowed to govern how people make money, they same way the NBA shouldn't be allowed to govern how players make money. I supposed they should be able to say, "If you decide to earn a living in a way that reflects poorly upon us, you can't play in our league (even that can be iffy in certain situations)." Esports is kespa's domain, nothing else should they govern.
And I can't really imagine most people watching gsl will even play attention to whether yoda is streaming or not. It's like Micheal Vick in the NFL, I see him play and I am reminded of what he did, that part sucks.
AND... I see a guy that did his time in jail and turned his life around in a big way, who is now back in the NFL. I'm FOR THAT.
I'm not for, "He's a bad person! I hope he rots in hell. Once a criminal always a criminal." That's what people are really pushing for here right, demonizing someone?
If not, please tell me how this ban prevents more match-fixing from happening?
On October 22 2015 12:08 ShambhalaWar wrote: If not, please tell me how this ban prevents more match-fixing from happening?
the same way a steroid abusing MMA fighter is punished when 1 jurisdiction bans him and other jurisdictions honour the ban. its a business decision on the part of both KeSPA and Afreeca and any other organization. its all just voluntary co-operation.
in general many posts are trying to paint this as a moral issue. its just a business issue between various organizations.
Kespa could request that my IP be banned from watching Afreeca and from teh chat because i've received too many warnings and bans on TL.Net and they feel i might pollute the chat room with dumb comments.
KeSPA could request that i watch SC2 while standing on my head.
Let 'em do their thing.. no one has to agree to anything they request.
The punishments? It's deterrence. IMO they should not be allowed to further profit from the game which they have tainted, and have personally helped to destroy (the integrity of).
It's not about demonizing them; support them in their endeavors, sure, just not in SC2. I mean, think about it, isn't it much more powerful to force a criminal to re-learn and make a living out of a new skill (which he/she should then feel much less inclined to jeopardize), instead of allowing them to continue profiting off the same game in spite of the shit they pulled?
On October 22 2015 12:08 ShambhalaWar wrote: If not, please tell me how this ban prevents more match-fixing from happening?
the same way a steroid abusing MMA fighter is punished when 1 jurisdiction bans him and other jurisdictions honour the ban. its a business decision on the part of both KeSPA and Afreeca and any other organization. its all just voluntary co-operation.
in general many posts are trying to paint this as a moral issue. its just a business issue between various organizations.
Kespa could request that my IP be banned from watching Afreeca and from teh chat because i've received too many warnings and bans on TL.Net and they feel i might pollute the chat room with dumb comments.
KeSPA could request that i watch SC2 while standing on my head.
Let 'em do their thing.. no one has to agree to anything they request.
This makes sense to me, and I still think in that example off MMA jurisdictions the ban exists in the context of a competitive sport. That punishment has already happened here, lifetime ban from competition.
A ban from streaming is an extension past that. It effects more than just the world of sc2.
I do agree maybe it is business, I still don't believe this entirely, much of this feels emotionally driven imo.
On October 22 2015 12:47 fluidin wrote: The punishments? It's deterrence. IMO they should not be allowed to further profit from the game which they have tainted, and have personally helped to destroy (the integrity of).
It's not about demonizing them; support them in their endeavors, sure, just not in SC2. I mean, think about it, isn't it much more powerful to force a criminal to re-learn and make a living out of a new skill (which he/she should then feel much less inclined to jeopardize), instead of allowing them to continue profiting off the same game in spite of the shit they pulled?
Punishment as deterrence doesn't work, incarceration rates in the US show that. Some of the harshest "3 strikes and your out" rules didn't change anything, incarceration just rose. Does it have some effect, probably, but it won't prevent things like this. The fact that it has already happened again since bw, suggests a different strategy is needed.
Mandatory salaries for players is a suggestion that could be more effective.
On October 22 2015 12:47 fluidin wrote: The punishments? It's deterrence. IMO they should not be allowed to further profit from the game which they have tainted, and have personally helped to destroy (the integrity of).
It's not about demonizing them; support them in their endeavors, sure, just not in SC2. I mean, think about it, isn't it much more powerful to force a criminal to re-learn and make a living out of a new skill (which he/she should then feel much less inclined to jeopardize), instead of allowing them to continue profiting off the same game in spite of the shit they pulled?
Punishment as deterrence doesn't work, incarceration rates in the US show that. Some of the harshest "3 strikes and your out" rules didn't change anything, incarceration just rose. Does it have some effect, probably, but it won't prevent things like this. The fact that it has already happened again since bw, suggests a different strategy is needed.
Mandatory salaries for players is a suggestion that could be more effective.
Fear is an extremely poor long term motivator.
brah, I'm from Singapore, and I can tell you deterrence DOES work. It's just how far you're willing to go with it :/
On October 22 2015 11:01 ShambhalaWar wrote: The claim that afreeca supports match-fixers just because they don't ban them is like a therapist saying I support murder because I tried to help someone that committed murder. Or claiming the same thing about a supermarket that sold the same person food.
No, those are terrible analogies and people need to stop making poor and misleading comparisons. This is nothing to do with banning people from food, or computers or even the internet. Its to do with ousting matchfixers in such a way as to prevent them from being further associated with the professional side of a competitive activity in which they matchfixed. No more, no less.
This situation is like the organisers of the Tour de France advertising Lance Armstrong cycling lessons. You can make all the arguments in the world that they're not actually allowing him into the competition and they're merely providing a service by allowing such an advertisement, but they're still enabling him to make money from the sport whilst simultaneously running a huge and important competition that he was found cheating in and undermining the legitimacy of.
Its just totally incompatible and if Afreeca has any shred of respect for the SC2 esports scene in general or the GSL in particular then they should either ban these people OR give up the GSL.
In my opinion he should be allowed to make money off sc2.
Kespa shouldn't be allowed to govern how people make money, they same way the NBA shouldn't be allowed to govern how players make money. I supposed they should be able to say, "If you decide to earn a living in a way that reflects poorly upon us, you can't play in our league (even that can be iffy in certain situations)." Esports is kespa's domain, nothing else should they govern.
And I can't really imagine most people watching gsl will even play attention to whether yoda is streaming or not. It's like Micheal Vick in the NFL, I see him play and I am reminded of what he did, that part sucks.
AND... I see a guy that did his time in jail and turned his life around in a big way, who is now back in the NFL. I'm FOR THAT.
I'm not for, "He's a bad person! I hope he rots in hell. Once a criminal always a criminal." That's what people are really pushing for here right, demonizing someone?
If not, please tell me how this ban prevents more match-fixing from happening?
The ban is not to prevent matchfixing from ever happening again. Its purpose is to make the banned ones stay away from the business, to protect the credibility of its current actors.
EPT
