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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9mwp2n7.png)
http://sports.news.naver.com/sports/index.nhn?category=e_sports&ctg=news&mod=read&office_id=442&article_id=0000025042
Ahn Joonyoung (aka Engine), former GSL commentator, condemns AfreecaTV`s decision not to take KeSPA`s request.
"In principle, there`s nothing wrong with Afreeca`s decision; it sucks though. I would understand if it was AfreecaTV before taking GSL, a mere streaming platform which cannot (and should not) control the content itself. However, you see it; Afreeca is producing SC2 league and now they`re holding the GSL. And are they saying they`re gonna guarantee the criminals` 'freedom' who hit a direct blow to the scene`s head? It is ridiculous to see Afreeca saying some gibberish calling it 'excuse' - now I`m wondering since when they have banned BJs considering such rules like 'double jeopardy.' *
(* AfreecaTV once banned certain BJs just because they streamed in some other sites)
It is just a matter of discretion (and operators` will), not some 'business right' stuff. (liberal translation: for better conveyance.) "
edit: dunno why there`s a 50-character limit for title -ㅅ-
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
I do agree with engine that they should be banned from afreeca solely because they themselves are producing leagues but they are still majorly a streaming service and as such can't really deny who can use their service(I could be wrong on this), but they can deny how they use their services, maybe disable the ability to get balloons from viewers? but then again even giving them more publicity is bad.
also for those who don't know BJ stands for Broadcasting Jockey.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
man I really miss Engine he was my favorite Korean SC2 caster
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If it's not written explicitely in their terms and condition that you can't be involved in this kind of scandals, then afreeca have no legal basis in banning them from streaming. It's that simple
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On October 20 2015 22:13 oGoZenob wrote:
If it's not written explicitely in their terms and condition that you can't be involved in this kind of scandals, then afreeca have no legal basis in banning them from streaming. It's that simple
Its their service they decide.
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What do you mean legal basis? It's their site, can't they decide who they ban arbitrary?
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Korea (South)227 Posts
Im totally with Engine with this. Sure, Afreeca could and would have kept this stance, and no one really could have said much about it BEFORE it announced it would be taking over GSL broadcasting from Gom. How can we truly recognize the integrity of the league if people who were involved in illegal betting over the game the league is hosting continue to have unfettered access to streaming and the money and influence that comes with it?
For me, I'm quite disappointed by Afreeca's decision here; its not like they treated the big streamers who left to different platforms such as Koo with respect, they legally hammered those poor individuals looking for a change in scenery. It seems they only act so as to keep money flows from being banned or tampered with. Extreme dislike and a loss of respect from me as the next torch bearer of GSL.
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Literally can't agree more.
After getting the rights to the GSL, Afreeca decides to put its foot down in support of matchfixers? Seriously...what? Ridiculous.
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On October 20 2015 22:18 odeSSa wrote:
What do you mean legal basis? It's their site, can't they decide who they ban arbitrary?
Yes they can, but if the banned people decide to press charge, they have no ground to defend themselves. You don't just stop being protected by the law because you do a bad thing
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Lol, would Twitch ban someone because he had hacked?
The banned gamers are good gamers.
I've dreamed of watching Savior FPView and now because someone decides to be noisy, let's bark to the sky...
and WTF guys
I bet there are tons of hackers no twitch, and via twitch are streamed all of the main tournaments.
Let's ban everyone who had used hacks.
Oh, and maybe - let's prohibit them using PCs because they are using the same internet as us?
Come on, they are gamers as we are. Games are for the gaming.
Game = fun
If you don't have fun and want to send someone behind the bars - go study and become some kind of lawyer or whatever.
These guys (the hackers) are wrong. They will be sorry till the end of their lives. They have entertained us with tons of great games and nice starcraft moments.. some ruined... try to be more restrained.
What if it was you?
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How is it illegal though lol? If teamliquid decided to perma ban me for this post I doubt I could take them to court over it, it's there site.
On October 20 2015 22:35 BlueStar wrote:
What if it was you?
I wouldn't be a piece of shit and try to ruin an esport?
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Korea (South)227 Posts
On October 20 2015 22:35 BlueStar wrote:
Lol, would Twitch ban someone because he had hacked?
The banned gamers are good gamers.
I've dreamed of watching Savior FPView and now because someone decides to be noisy, let's bark to the sky...
and WTF guys
I bet there are tons of hackers no twitch, and via twitch are streamed all of the main tournaments.
Let's ban everyone who had used hacks.
Oh, and maybe - let's prohibit them using PCs because they are using the same internet as us?
Come on, they are gamers as we are. Games are for the gaming.
Game = fun
If you don't have fun and want to send someone behind the bars - go study and become some kind of lawyer or whatever.
These guys (the hackers) are wrong. They will be sorry till the end of their lives. They have entertained us with tons of great games and nice starcraft moments.. some ruined... try to be more restrained.
What if it was you?
LOL.
Nonsense.
So because he is ENTERTAINING you think he should still be allowed to stream?
You think because he is a good gamer gameplay wise he should be allowed to keep streaming?
In the spirit of TB, absolute BOLLOCKS.
These people have taken the fun out of professional gaming and tournaments by participating in illegal broker roles and betting significant amounts of money. They coerced people and other players, PROFESSIONAL players to deliberately throw their games in order to get some quick, cheap, illegal money.
Professionals are professionals for a reason. They should not, PERIOD, partake in illegal activities simply because its easier to do so.
What these dumbasses have done doesn't give them any excuse whatsoever to continue to have ANY relation towards the gaming industry and professional gaming scene.
Its hard enough to convince people to take the gaming industry seriously without it being treated as a dumping ground for illegal betting.
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On October 20 2015 22:35 BlueStar wrote:
Lol, would Twitch ban someone because he had hacked?
The banned gamers are good gamers.
I've dreamed of watching Savior FPView and now because someone decides to be noisy, let's bark to the sky...
and WTF guys
I bet there are tons of hackers no twitch, and via twitch are streamed all of the main tournaments.
Let's ban everyone who had used hacks.
Oh, and maybe - let's prohibit them using PCs because they are using the same internet as us?
Come on, they are gamers as we are. Games are for the gaming.
Game = fun
If you don't have fun and want to send someone behind the bars - go study and become some kind of lawyer or whatever.
These guys (the hackers) are wrong. They will be sorry till the end of their lives. They have entertained us with tons of great games and nice starcraft moments.. some ruined... try to be more restrained.
What if it was you?
Sorry, massively disagree.
Games are supposed to be fun, sure. And watching professional games should be a fun activity. Cheating, hacking, and matchfixing by pro-gamers completely ruins the integrity of the sport (and also, removes all the fun). Such behavior simply has no place in pro-gaming.
I suppose twitch has hackers etc too. But is twitch also running the premier SC 2 tournament? No. Are the hackers on twitch pro-gamers? I don't know, but I am guessing no.
Massively disagree.
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On October 20 2015 22:31 oGoZenob wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:18 odeSSa wrote:
What do you mean legal basis? It's their site, can't they decide who they ban arbitrary? Yes they can, but if the banned people decide to press charge, they have no ground to defend themselves. You don't just stop being protected by the law because you do a bad thing
That's not how the law works lol. Think of it this way: If Twitch or TL bans you, then you can be angry, but you don't innately have the freedom or right to use any private service you want. Their house, their rules. Same thing with streaming on Twitch or Afreeca.
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On October 20 2015 22:35 BlueStar wrote:
Lol, would Twitch ban someone because he had hacked?
The banned gamers are good gamers.
I've dreamed of watching Savior FPView and now because someone decides to be noisy, let's bark to the sky...
Blame Savior and the other cheaters.
What if it was you?
There are consequences for your actions. Period.
I wouldn't put myself in that position because I'm aware of those consequences.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 20 2015 23:44 Orlok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:35 BlueStar wrote:
Lol, would Twitch ban someone because he had hacked?
The banned gamers are good gamers.
I've dreamed of watching Savior FPView and now because someone decides to be noisy, let's bark to the sky...
and WTF guys
I bet there are tons of hackers no twitch, and via twitch are streamed all of the main tournaments.
Let's ban everyone who had used hacks.
Oh, and maybe - let's prohibit them using PCs because they are using the same internet as us?
Come on, they are gamers as we are. Games are for the gaming.
Game = fun
If you don't have fun and want to send someone behind the bars - go study and become some kind of lawyer or whatever.
These guys (the hackers) are wrong. They will be sorry till the end of their lives. They have entertained us with tons of great games and nice starcraft moments.. some ruined... try to be more restrained.
What if it was you? LOL. Nonsense. So because he is ENTERTAINING you think he should still be allowed to stream? You think because he is a good gamer gameplay wise he should be allowed to keep streaming? In the spirit of TB, absolute BOLLOCKS. These people have taken the fun out of professional gaming and tournaments by participating in illegal broker roles and betting significant amounts of money. They coerced people and other players, PROFESSIONAL players to deliberately throw their games in order to get some quick, cheap, illegal money. Professionals are professionals for a reason. They should not, PERIOD, partake in illegal activities simply because its easier to do so. What these dumbasses have done doesn't give them any excuse whatsoever to continue to have ANY relation towards the gaming industry and professional gaming scene. Its hard enough to convince people to take the gaming industry seriously without it being treated as a dumping ground for illegal betting.
So why they have audience? It looks like there are people who actually don't care. As long as they have their audience let them stream. This is a totally different section. I don't understand why anyone caring about sc2 would watch them, but it's not MY choice to DENY THEM their favorite StReAM!
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you guys are using some weird analogies.
in the first place, savior has decided to stop streaming for years now. that dream can be fulfilled by befriending him, getting him drunk or whatever it takes, and asking him to play seriously somehow.
or you could just browse the many (including up until the point he actually stopped streaming) collected vods. however, that time is long past and you've gotta accept that this has nothing to do with savior specifically. read: it was his own choice to stop streaming for revenue.
"Come on, they are gamers as we are. Games are for the gaming. Game = fun"
they aren't gaming per say. they were or are doing a lot more than just that. they're bringing the world of adult life into the entertainment business of gaming where their job is to win. except they've taken the initiative to change their job to losing. think about their sponsors, team, teammates and anyone involved. it's a double-deal, and a double-crossing.
similarly, everything you do in life reflects upon the facts of your being. every action you make, there was an intelligent (awareness, understanding, logic, memory, planning, etc.) set of reasons behind it.
even thrusting yourself into the life of a pro-gamer is or was at some point your decision.
and please don't beat the dead horse of whether or not afreeca has legal grounds to actually do it. they do, willingly or not.
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On October 20 2015 22:35 bo1b wrote:How is it illegal though lol? If teamliquid decided to perma ban me for this post I doubt I could take them to court over it, it's there site. I wouldn't be a piece of shit and try to ruin an esport?
It is easy to say that.
It is much harder to proof that.
In all 5 threads there is enough talk about how scene gets fixing problems when it is overcrowed by young players investing their whole youth and education into something that does not pay off due to the lack of money in the scene. It is no wonder that part of that scene will seek out for better income as people arround these players expect them to make money. And it is no wondern when they will find matchfixing as one of these sorts of generating money for later and at least get something out of the years they invested into the nothingnes of being a B-Teamer. Even with Yodas 100k it is not that much for arround 4 years of youth wasted and giving up on higher education.
I dont say they should be allowed to play in a tournament again nor should ring leaders like gerrard or Savior be allowed to have anything to do with the scene, but I can be something else then lenient to the average B-Teamer fixer, late teen, early tween, desperate for makeing something out of this game they invested so much. And thus I cannot understand how you want to ban them from any form of streaming just because of the sake of punishment. If people enjoy their stream, why not letting them enjoy. All others who have a gigantic anger at these guys can still vote with their views. Nobody forces you to watch them, to give them balloons, but who wants to do it, just let them do it.
Teamliquid and you are no buisness partners, streamers who earn balloons and show ads during stream are buisnesspartners with their plattform. It is a hole other level to kick them out.
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On October 21 2015 00:07 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:35 BlueStar wrote:
Lol, would Twitch ban someone because he had hacked?
The banned gamers are good gamers.
I've dreamed of watching Savior FPView and now because someone decides to be noisy, let's bark to the sky...
and WTF guys
I bet there are tons of hackers no twitch, and via twitch are streamed all of the main tournaments.
Let's ban everyone who had used hacks.
Oh, and maybe - let's prohibit them using PCs because they are using the same internet as us?
Come on, they are gamers as we are. Games are for the gaming.
Game = fun
If you don't have fun and want to send someone behind the bars - go study and become some kind of lawyer or whatever.
These guys (the hackers) are wrong. They will be sorry till the end of their lives. They have entertained us with tons of great games and nice starcraft moments.. some ruined... try to be more restrained.
What if it was you? Sorry, massively disagree. Games are supposed to be fun, sure. And watching professional games should be a fun activity. Cheating, hacking, and matchfixing by pro-gamers completely ruins the integrity of the sport (and also, removes all the fun). Such behavior simply has no place in pro-gaming. I suppose twitch has hackers etc too. But is twitch also running the premier SC 2 tournament? No. Are the hackers on twitch pro-gamers? I don't know, but I am guessing no. Massively disagree.
I agree with bluestar.
Jail and a lifetime ban is MORE THAN ENOUGH punishment for the petty shit they did.
People act like this is a murder trial.
You want to get all purist about the sport? Ban gambling with sc2 completely, because gambling is shady to begin with and often rigged. It is prone to exploitation. If it was a casino and a card counter went into play blackjack and ran the house for some money you might pat them on the back and say congrats.
I don't agree with match-fixing and I see how it hurt the scene. AND...
Jail and a lifetime ban is MORE THAN ENOUGH punishment for the petty shit they did.
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On October 21 2015 00:44 ShambhalaWar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 00:07 levelping wrote:On October 20 2015 22:35 BlueStar wrote:
Lol, would Twitch ban someone because he had hacked?
The banned gamers are good gamers.
I've dreamed of watching Savior FPView and now because someone decides to be noisy, let's bark to the sky...
and WTF guys
I bet there are tons of hackers no twitch, and via twitch are streamed all of the main tournaments.
Let's ban everyone who had used hacks.
Oh, and maybe - let's prohibit them using PCs because they are using the same internet as us?
Come on, they are gamers as we are. Games are for the gaming.
Game = fun
If you don't have fun and want to send someone behind the bars - go study and become some kind of lawyer or whatever.
These guys (the hackers) are wrong. They will be sorry till the end of their lives. They have entertained us with tons of great games and nice starcraft moments.. some ruined... try to be more restrained.
What if it was you? Sorry, massively disagree. Games are supposed to be fun, sure. And watching professional games should be a fun activity. Cheating, hacking, and matchfixing by pro-gamers completely ruins the integrity of the sport (and also, removes all the fun). Such behavior simply has no place in pro-gaming. I suppose twitch has hackers etc too. But is twitch also running the premier SC 2 tournament? No. Are the hackers on twitch pro-gamers? I don't know, but I am guessing no. Massively disagree. I agree with bluestar. Jail and a lifetime ban is MORE THAN ENOUGH punishment for the petty shit they did. People act like this is a murder trial. You want to get all purist about the sport? Ban gambling with sc2 completely, because gambling is shady to begin with and often rigged. It is prone to exploitation. If it was a casino and a card counter went into play blackjack and ran the house for some money you might pat them on the back and say congrats. I don't agree with match-fixing and I see how it hurt the scene. AND... Jail and a lifetime ban is MORE THAN ENOUGH punishment for the petty shit they did.
Also, one thousand or more card counters never ruined blackjack or poker, this won't ruin sc2.
If sc2 is ruined, it will ruin itself all by itself. Cheaters don't have the power to ruin a scene that is flourishing. This scene isn't flourishing and it has nothing to do with cheaters.
We should leave this drama and turn the energy back to what is really plaguing the sc2 enjoyment.
Edit: LOL, I meant to edit my last post not quote myself XD
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EPT
