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Based on the official Police investigation, only the above players have been implicated in matchfixing. There is no reason to further accuse other players and teams until we get more information. Incessant blind accusations will not be tolerated. Please read the thread and the updates before posting. As of page 54 we will be moderating against match fixing accusations for players who were not caught in this incident, including those using voided Pinnacle bets as evidence. |
On October 19 2015 22:53 mikedebo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 22:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2015 22:39 Ravensong170 wrote:
I lived through the savior shit and now this in SC2..... god damnit. While over dota 2, people still view matchfixing as NBD LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd give them second chances blah blah blah.
Glad Kespa is dropping the hammer, but beyond depressing that it is happening at all....
Kespa should force teams to actually pay their players, THAT would do far more than banning people after they already commited the crime. This is really it. A rule that requires teams to publish their financials (or submit to audits) to the league and a base minimum salary or equivalent would probably go a long way to disbanding these teams long before things can get this bad. Kespa seems to have control of almost all the relevant sc2 events now anyways, they might as well use that for some good.
Yeah, making more rules and demanding money from teams, that will surely help the scene flourish when the biggest problem is that there is not enough money. You guys think KeSPA is going to grow the on trees irrigated by the tears of the punished matchfixers? You could probably get rid of all the matchfixing though, because there won't be any matches to fix that way.
Honestly, if you want to have "clean" competition, the thing you should be wanting is completely opposite: less money involved = less incentives for mafias to get involved. The cleanest competitions are those that are small and amateur.
In any case, I am done "hating" anyone involved. When I first heard about matchfixing, I thought it's henious, because that was the "public opinion" and I never thought of the matter before. Now after giving it proper consideration, I don't really care. I still like to watch the games and have fun, what happens beyond doesn't have to bother me. The lifetime bans are a childish "omg you are so bad" reaction and I do not support them and I am not going to act like anyone involved in matchfixing was a great criminal.
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On October 19 2015 18:51 SystemXN wrote:Leifeng (the sponsor of Chinese tournament Leifeng Cup who has contact with Korean scene) revealed some facts about Prime on Chinese forum ( original post in Chinese) Gerrard never paid salaries to his players, he even prohibited players to use air-conditioner in team house during this summer (maybe to save money). Gerrard didn't care about Prime's SC2 team but paid his full attention on his LoL team. More ironically, even his LoL team cannot have five enough good computers to practice LoL, so Gerrard took iG (invictus Gaming, the Chinese pro team)'s two computers for practicing and never returned them. What's more, Gerrard took ByuN's top-class personal computer (which values about $1,200) to team house, not only never returned it, but sold it for money. It is sad to see both Gerrard and Prime as SC2 veteran come to such an shameful end.
Of all the things I've read about this scandal, this is the worst.
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On October 19 2015 23:04 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 22:53 mikedebo wrote:On October 19 2015 22:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2015 22:39 Ravensong170 wrote:
I lived through the savior shit and now this in SC2..... god damnit. While over dota 2, people still view matchfixing as NBD LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd give them second chances blah blah blah.
Glad Kespa is dropping the hammer, but beyond depressing that it is happening at all....
Kespa should force teams to actually pay their players, THAT would do far more than banning people after they already commited the crime. This is really it. A rule that requires teams to publish their financials (or submit to audits) to the league and a base minimum salary or equivalent would probably go a long way to disbanding these teams long before things can get this bad. Kespa seems to have control of almost all the relevant sc2 events now anyways, they might as well use that for some good. Yeah, making more rules and demanding money from teams, that will surely help the scene flourish when the biggest problem is that there is not enough money. You guys think KeSPA is going to grow the on trees irrigated by the tears of the punished matchfixers? You could probably get rid of all the matchfixing though, because there won't be any matches to fix that way. Honestly, if you want to have "clean" competition, the thing you should be wanting is completely opposite: less money involved = less incentives for mafias to get involved. The cleanest competitions are those that are small and amateur. In any case, I am done "hating" anyone involved. When I first heard about matchfixing, I thought it's henious, because that was the "public opinion" and I never thought of the matter before. Now after giving it proper consideration, I don't really care. I still like to watch the games and have fun, what happens beyond doesn't have to bother me. The lifetime bans are a childish "omg you are so bad" reaction and I do not support them and I am not going to act like anyone involved in matchfixing was a great criminal.
then maybe if there isnt enough money in the scene to pay progamers a proper salary, the scene needs to die out.
if matchfixing and the competition itself means nothing to you why not just watch theaters, tv shows or WWE wrestling? if youre free to fix matches and winning isnt important, why even have competitions...
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On October 19 2015 23:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 23:04 opisska wrote:On October 19 2015 22:53 mikedebo wrote:On October 19 2015 22:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2015 22:39 Ravensong170 wrote:
I lived through the savior shit and now this in SC2..... god damnit. While over dota 2, people still view matchfixing as NBD LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd give them second chances blah blah blah.
Glad Kespa is dropping the hammer, but beyond depressing that it is happening at all....
Kespa should force teams to actually pay their players, THAT would do far more than banning people after they already commited the crime. This is really it. A rule that requires teams to publish their financials (or submit to audits) to the league and a base minimum salary or equivalent would probably go a long way to disbanding these teams long before things can get this bad. Kespa seems to have control of almost all the relevant sc2 events now anyways, they might as well use that for some good. Yeah, making more rules and demanding money from teams, that will surely help the scene flourish when the biggest problem is that there is not enough money. You guys think KeSPA is going to grow the on trees irrigated by the tears of the punished matchfixers? You could probably get rid of all the matchfixing though, because there won't be any matches to fix that way. Honestly, if you want to have "clean" competition, the thing you should be wanting is completely opposite: less money involved = less incentives for mafias to get involved. The cleanest competitions are those that are small and amateur. In any case, I am done "hating" anyone involved. When I first heard about matchfixing, I thought it's henious, because that was the "public opinion" and I never thought of the matter before. Now after giving it proper consideration, I don't really care. I still like to watch the games and have fun, what happens beyond doesn't have to bother me. The lifetime bans are a childish "omg you are so bad" reaction and I do not support them and I am not going to act like anyone involved in matchfixing was a great criminal. then maybe if there isnt enough money in the scene to pay progamers a proper salary, the scene needs to die out.if matchfixing and the competition itself means nothing to you why not just watch theaters, tv shows or WWE wrestling? if youre free to fix matches and winning isnt important, why even have competitions...
Because watching people who play games only in their free time would be absolutely unacceptable, right?
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On October 19 2015 23:17 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 23:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On October 19 2015 23:04 opisska wrote:On October 19 2015 22:53 mikedebo wrote:On October 19 2015 22:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2015 22:39 Ravensong170 wrote:
I lived through the savior shit and now this in SC2..... god damnit. While over dota 2, people still view matchfixing as NBD LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd give them second chances blah blah blah.
Glad Kespa is dropping the hammer, but beyond depressing that it is happening at all....
Kespa should force teams to actually pay their players, THAT would do far more than banning people after they already commited the crime. This is really it. A rule that requires teams to publish their financials (or submit to audits) to the league and a base minimum salary or equivalent would probably go a long way to disbanding these teams long before things can get this bad. Kespa seems to have control of almost all the relevant sc2 events now anyways, they might as well use that for some good. Yeah, making more rules and demanding money from teams, that will surely help the scene flourish when the biggest problem is that there is not enough money. You guys think KeSPA is going to grow the on trees irrigated by the tears of the punished matchfixers? You could probably get rid of all the matchfixing though, because there won't be any matches to fix that way. Honestly, if you want to have "clean" competition, the thing you should be wanting is completely opposite: less money involved = less incentives for mafias to get involved. The cleanest competitions are those that are small and amateur. In any case, I am done "hating" anyone involved. When I first heard about matchfixing, I thought it's henious, because that was the "public opinion" and I never thought of the matter before. Now after giving it proper consideration, I don't really care. I still like to watch the games and have fun, what happens beyond doesn't have to bother me. The lifetime bans are a childish "omg you are so bad" reaction and I do not support them and I am not going to act like anyone involved in matchfixing was a great criminal. then maybe if there isnt enough money in the scene to pay progamers a proper salary, the scene needs to die out.if matchfixing and the competition itself means nothing to you why not just watch theaters, tv shows or WWE wrestling? if youre free to fix matches and winning isnt important, why even have competitions... Because watching people who play games only in their free time would be absolutely unacceptable, right?
you make no sense.
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China6331 Posts
On October 19 2015 23:08 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 18:51 SystemXN wrote:Leifeng (the sponsor of Chinese tournament Leifeng Cup who has contact with Korean scene) revealed some facts about Prime on Chinese forum ( original post in Chinese) Gerrard never paid salaries to his players, he even prohibited players to use air-conditioner in team house during this summer (maybe to save money). Gerrard didn't care about Prime's SC2 team but paid his full attention on his LoL team. More ironically, even his LoL team cannot have five enough good computers to practice LoL, so Gerrard took iG (invictus Gaming, the Chinese pro team)'s two computers for practicing and never returned them. What's more, Gerrard took ByuN's top-class personal computer (which values about $1,200) to team house, not only never returned it, but sold it for money. It is sad to see both Gerrard and Prime as SC2 veteran come to such an shameful end. Of all the things I've read about this scandal, this is the worst.
The iG guys took their computers to Korea to practice in the team house, when they leave Korea back to China for WCS they thought they'll be returning so they left the computers there, but since the MERS breakout they decided to not go back for a while and asked Gerrard to return their computers but he kept ignoring them, this is pretty bad and sad.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On October 19 2015 23:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 23:04 opisska wrote:On October 19 2015 22:53 mikedebo wrote:On October 19 2015 22:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2015 22:39 Ravensong170 wrote:
I lived through the savior shit and now this in SC2..... god damnit. While over dota 2, people still view matchfixing as NBD LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd give them second chances blah blah blah.
Glad Kespa is dropping the hammer, but beyond depressing that it is happening at all....
Kespa should force teams to actually pay their players, THAT would do far more than banning people after they already commited the crime. This is really it. A rule that requires teams to publish their financials (or submit to audits) to the league and a base minimum salary or equivalent would probably go a long way to disbanding these teams long before things can get this bad. Kespa seems to have control of almost all the relevant sc2 events now anyways, they might as well use that for some good. Yeah, making more rules and demanding money from teams, that will surely help the scene flourish when the biggest problem is that there is not enough money. You guys think KeSPA is going to grow the on trees irrigated by the tears of the punished matchfixers? You could probably get rid of all the matchfixing though, because there won't be any matches to fix that way. Honestly, if you want to have "clean" competition, the thing you should be wanting is completely opposite: less money involved = less incentives for mafias to get involved. The cleanest competitions are those that are small and amateur. In any case, I am done "hating" anyone involved. When I first heard about matchfixing, I thought it's henious, because that was the "public opinion" and I never thought of the matter before. Now after giving it proper consideration, I don't really care. I still like to watch the games and have fun, what happens beyond doesn't have to bother me. The lifetime bans are a childish "omg you are so bad" reaction and I do not support them and I am not going to act like anyone involved in matchfixing was a great criminal. then maybe if there isnt enough money in the scene to pay progamers a proper salary, the scene needs to die out.
I hate to break it to you, but this would leave League of Legends as the only "scene".
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I find it funny how all these "rumours" surfacing about Gerrard now. This always happens. Wait till they're under the bus then throw the dirty laundry out. A lot of this information would have been useful months ago so they could fire him and get a decent coach.
Lifetime ban seems a bit high. 10 years is effectively a lifetime in e-sports. I support such bans because I presume it is extremely hard to find these people. Gotta make an example of those you do find. While I still support all the players accused, I would never say they are 100% innocent.
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On October 19 2015 22:09 IntoTheheart wrote:
I do hope that the Prime brand's gonna be okay. If memory serves, after the BW fixing scandal, SPARKYZ had to merge with CJ because they lost so many players.
Prime as a brand is dead, Prime as a team is dead. Now ex-Prime players not involved with the match fixing will be tainted by association.
Where the hell did Gerrard get 50k to gamble with? Did he spend 50k on gambling or was he 50k in the hole? Prime players not being paid, maybe he used Prime money to gamble to make up his own losses? It's a common thing with gamblers who have access to corporate money. What I really wanna know is who made the first contact when it came to match fixing? It's important. If it was Gerrard thinking this way he can repay his debts by having his players throw matches and him approaching betting rings thru middle guy or if it was the betting ring contacting him, knowing him having a huge debt and will do pretty much anything to get out. Maybe we'll never know but it would be interesting
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On October 19 2015 23:32 TRaFFiC wrote:
I find it funny how all these "rumours" surfacing about Gerrard now. This always happens. Wait till they're under the bus then throw the dirty laundry out. A lot of this information would have been useful months ago so they could fire him and get a decent coach.
Lifetime ban seems a bit high. 10 years is effectively a lifetime in e-sports. I support such bans because I presume it is extremely hard to find these people. Gotta make an example of those you do find. While I still support all the players accused, I would never say they are 100% innocent.
I don't think they're necessarily only surfacing now, it's that they never received much attention when they appeared in off-hand remarks on Twitter or in LR threads months ago.
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On October 19 2015 23:08 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 18:51 SystemXN wrote:Leifeng (the sponsor of Chinese tournament Leifeng Cup who has contact with Korean scene) revealed some facts about Prime on Chinese forum ( original post in Chinese) Gerrard never paid salaries to his players, he even prohibited players to use air-conditioner in team house during this summer (maybe to save money). Gerrard didn't care about Prime's SC2 team but paid his full attention on his LoL team. More ironically, even his LoL team cannot have five enough good computers to practice LoL, so Gerrard took iG (invictus Gaming, the Chinese pro team)'s two computers for practicing and never returned them. What's more, Gerrard took ByuN's top-class personal computer (which values about $1,200) to team house, not only never returned it, but sold it for money. It is sad to see both Gerrard and Prime as SC2 veteran come to such an shameful end. Of all the things I've read about this scandal, this is the worst.
That would explain why ByuN was basically no show for nearly 2 years.
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On October 19 2015 23:32 TRaFFiC wrote:
I find it funny how all these "rumours" surfacing about Gerrard now. This always happens. Wait till they're under the bus then throw the dirty laundry out. A lot of this information would have been useful months ago so they could fire him and get a decent coach.
Lifetime ban seems a bit high. 10 years is effectively a lifetime in e-sports. I support such bans because I presume it is extremely hard to find these people. Gotta make an example of those you do find. While I still support all the players accused, I would never say they are 100% innocent.
Its sad. I had always liked Gerrard and watched followed some of his non SC stuff as well. In the end it sounds like he had a gambling addiction that probably paved the way. Its sad when teams die like this, but this Prime team had been falling apart forever.
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Shame, Yoda was top 10 korean terran for a long time.
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On October 19 2015 21:57 Ingvar wrote:
Well, this hammer was due to drop for a very long time. I just hope that all matchfixing investigations and charges are done before LotV really takes off. It's the best time to find all the black sheep in the scene as long as it happens right now.
It won't matter to cut the "Black sheep" of now, there will be more later on. "There have always been those who hate, and there always will be" -Wizards thirteenth rule, Terry Goodkind. More important is to get a system in place to stop it. It's horrifying how long it took for Yoda, Gerard and B4 to be effectively caught and banned.
And unfortunately blackmail is a part of this so I do not see it stopping anytime.
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Heavy face-palming... Oooh Prime : (
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Well this is a hell of a thing to wake up to...I need time to process this
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On October 19 2015 23:17 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 23:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On October 19 2015 23:04 opisska wrote:On October 19 2015 22:53 mikedebo wrote:On October 19 2015 22:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2015 22:39 Ravensong170 wrote:
I lived through the savior shit and now this in SC2..... god damnit. While over dota 2, people still view matchfixing as NBD LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd give them second chances blah blah blah.
Glad Kespa is dropping the hammer, but beyond depressing that it is happening at all....
Kespa should force teams to actually pay their players, THAT would do far more than banning people after they already commited the crime. This is really it. A rule that requires teams to publish their financials (or submit to audits) to the league and a base minimum salary or equivalent would probably go a long way to disbanding these teams long before things can get this bad. Kespa seems to have control of almost all the relevant sc2 events now anyways, they might as well use that for some good. Yeah, making more rules and demanding money from teams, that will surely help the scene flourish when the biggest problem is that there is not enough money. You guys think KeSPA is going to grow the on trees irrigated by the tears of the punished matchfixers? You could probably get rid of all the matchfixing though, because there won't be any matches to fix that way. Honestly, if you want to have "clean" competition, the thing you should be wanting is completely opposite: less money involved = less incentives for mafias to get involved. The cleanest competitions are those that are small and amateur. In any case, I am done "hating" anyone involved. When I first heard about matchfixing, I thought it's henious, because that was the "public opinion" and I never thought of the matter before. Now after giving it proper consideration, I don't really care. I still like to watch the games and have fun, what happens beyond doesn't have to bother me. The lifetime bans are a childish "omg you are so bad" reaction and I do not support them and I am not going to act like anyone involved in matchfixing was a great criminal. then maybe if there isnt enough money in the scene to pay progamers a proper salary, the scene needs to die out.if matchfixing and the competition itself means nothing to you why not just watch theaters, tv shows or WWE wrestling? if youre free to fix matches and winning isnt important, why even have competitions... Because watching people who play games only in their free time would be absolutely unacceptable, right?
This would still happen at the "clan level" in more casual / informal tourneys. But for proleague and the related KESPA-run orgs and member teams, you either need to be serious, fast, or you fail. I don't think this is unreasonable for the highest level of play -- except for prime, I think this is pretty close to how the other extant proleague teams operate, isn't it?
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On October 19 2015 23:38 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 23:08 Boucot wrote:On October 19 2015 18:51 SystemXN wrote:Leifeng (the sponsor of Chinese tournament Leifeng Cup who has contact with Korean scene) revealed some facts about Prime on Chinese forum ( original post in Chinese) Gerrard never paid salaries to his players, he even prohibited players to use air-conditioner in team house during this summer (maybe to save money). Gerrard didn't care about Prime's SC2 team but paid his full attention on his LoL team. More ironically, even his LoL team cannot have five enough good computers to practice LoL, so Gerrard took iG (invictus Gaming, the Chinese pro team)'s two computers for practicing and never returned them. What's more, Gerrard took ByuN's top-class personal computer (which values about $1,200) to team house, not only never returned it, but sold it for money. It is sad to see both Gerrard and Prime as SC2 veteran come to such an shameful end. Of all the things I've read about this scandal, this is the worst. That would explain why ByuN was basically no show for nearly 2 years.
Yeah but he is a talented player, I wonder why he didn't join another team.
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On October 19 2015 23:49 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 23:38 royalroadweed wrote:On October 19 2015 23:08 Boucot wrote:On October 19 2015 18:51 SystemXN wrote:Leifeng (the sponsor of Chinese tournament Leifeng Cup who has contact with Korean scene) revealed some facts about Prime on Chinese forum ( original post in Chinese) Gerrard never paid salaries to his players, he even prohibited players to use air-conditioner in team house during this summer (maybe to save money). Gerrard didn't care about Prime's SC2 team but paid his full attention on his LoL team. More ironically, even his LoL team cannot have five enough good computers to practice LoL, so Gerrard took iG (invictus Gaming, the Chinese pro team)'s two computers for practicing and never returned them. What's more, Gerrard took ByuN's top-class personal computer (which values about $1,200) to team house, not only never returned it, but sold it for money. It is sad to see both Gerrard and Prime as SC2 veteran come to such an shameful end. Of all the things I've read about this scandal, this is the worst. That would explain why ByuN was basically no show for nearly 2 years. Yeah but he is a talented player, I wonder why he didn't join another team.
maybe he couldn't get out of his contract or was oblivious to what was going on or trusted Gerrard?
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4713 Posts
On October 19 2015 23:49 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 23:38 royalroadweed wrote:On October 19 2015 23:08 Boucot wrote:On October 19 2015 18:51 SystemXN wrote:Leifeng (the sponsor of Chinese tournament Leifeng Cup who has contact with Korean scene) revealed some facts about Prime on Chinese forum ( original post in Chinese) Gerrard never paid salaries to his players, he even prohibited players to use air-conditioner in team house during this summer (maybe to save money). Gerrard didn't care about Prime's SC2 team but paid his full attention on his LoL team. More ironically, even his LoL team cannot have five enough good computers to practice LoL, so Gerrard took iG (invictus Gaming, the Chinese pro team)'s two computers for practicing and never returned them. What's more, Gerrard took ByuN's top-class personal computer (which values about $1,200) to team house, not only never returned it, but sold it for money. It is sad to see both Gerrard and Prime as SC2 veteran come to such an shameful end. Of all the things I've read about this scandal, this is the worst. That would explain why ByuN was basically no show for nearly 2 years. Yeah but he is a talented player, I wonder why he didn't join another team.
Maybe the experience made him lose trust in people overall and he decided to just avoid teams altogether.
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EPT
