• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:00
CET 22:00
KST 06:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL15] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Whirlwind12WTL 2023 Summer - Qualifiers Preview + Power Rank16[Interview] Dewalt20Tournament Spotlight: Crowdfunded Pre-Season Events19[ASL15] Ro24 Preview: Welcome Back!26
Community News
EPT Summer 2023: Qualifier Information12023/24 ESL Pro Tour - Format and Schedule17Liquibet SC2 Season 27 Recap11SCboy: 2023 Tournament Plans10ESL Open Cup #166: Dark, MaxPax, ByuN win10
StarCraft 2
General
ESL Open Cup #166: Dark, MaxPax, ByuN win Replace Unit voicelines with BW voices The Forgotten Story of Scarlett's Most Tragic Loss 2023/24 ESL Pro Tour - Format and Schedule A Tidal Wave in Still Water - Oliveira at IEM Katowice
Tourneys
[WTL 2023] Summer Qualifier and Code A 2023 NA Apprentice Season 1 $10,000 PIG STY FESTIVAL 3.0! (March 15-19) Ukrainian Cup Powered By Hot Headed Gaming Playoff Kung Fu Cup and Master's Coliseum Return for 2023
Strategy
[H] (PvP) WTF Nexus rush into recall probe/zealot Neural parasite on disruptors?
Custom Maps
[A] Proxy Rush [A] SC Real Scale [A] (Minigames) Raynor Party [D] Planning to host a small map tournament
External Content
Mutation #219 Hardware Malfunction Mutation # 361 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 360 Double Trouble Mutation # 359 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Is Blizzard unwilling to fix bugs? The uncertainty behind FlaSh's Return; In-depth [Interview] Dewalt repmastered.app: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL16] Grand Finals - Sunday 18:00 CEST time chng [ASL15] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Carriers or arbiters Starcraft Remastered Build Orders February 2023 Marine rate of fire
Other Games
General Games
Frost Giant announce Stormgate Diablo IV Street Fighter 6 Nintendo Switch Thread Final Fantasy XIV
Dota 2
Official Dota and Chess General Discussion Lima Major 2023
League of Legends
Elo Boosting: discussion, problems, and Solutions LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net [Patch Notes] Release General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
HotS: WP and Funny Moments
Hearthstone
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Liquid Arcanon News [0]Paper Team Liquid Maria L TL Mafia Idea Factory Chezinu streak(s) Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club The Phredxor Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2022 - 2023 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2022 Formula 1 Discussion 2021 NFL/CFB Season UFC/MMA Discussion Thread
World Cup 2022
FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 Thread
Tech Support
Installing hard drives Wireless router malfunctioning? how to play music while streaming with xsplit
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts Happy Birthday R1CH! Ask TL Staff Anything
Blogs
Long time coming for a bri…
Alakaslam
Hi rather desperate p…
WeddingEpisode
Return of CranKy Du…
CranKy Ducklings
TL Currency Converter Mafia…
Minely
An ex-schizoid's u…
ApatheticSchizoid
20 years plus!
FuDDx
ASL 15 English Commentary…
namkraft
Teaching StarCraft Blog …
Lovethelord
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1021 users

YoDa, B4, Gerrard arrested for match-fixing - Page 71

Forum Index > SC2 General
1413 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 69 70 71
Based on the official Police investigation, only the above players have been implicated in matchfixing. There is no reason to further accuse other players and teams until we get more information. Incessant blind accusations will not be tolerated. Please read the thread and the updates before posting.

As of page 54 we will be moderating against match fixing accusations for players who were not caught in this incident, including those using voided Pinnacle bets as evidence.
cheekymonkey
Profile Joined January 2014
France1387 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-03 15:27:30
November 03 2015 15:24 GMT
#1401
On November 04 2015 00:05 nighcol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 21:46 cheekymonkey wrote:
Thank you Wuster, that is a very good point which everyone should keep in mind. Suspicious betting patterns does not imply that the players are involved. Coupled with the fact that players every once in a while does play stupidly, they run the risk of being wrongly accused of matchfixing. That is why accusations cannot be allowed to run rampant.


You need a different explanation or a much larger conspiracy to use that for something like Proleague and GSL matches though. One realistic way the players could have been unaware even in suspicious matches of the big leagues is the fake tip thing.


The point is however that it is not anyone's responsibility to provide reasonable or likely explanations as to whether a player might be innocent on a case to case basis. The accusation might seem very reasonable, but if the evidence is merely circumstantial (e.g. suspicious betting patterns & apparent throw), and no actual evidence implying guilt is at hand (e.g. actual proof of money transfer, or confession of guilt), then it's a matter of principles. It is too easy to dismiss any possible explanation as unlikely, and a community opinion might spiral out of control, effectively ruining the reputation of conceivably innocent players.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
November 03 2015 21:42 GMT
#1402
On November 04 2015 00:24 cheekymonkey wrote: a community opinion might spiral out of control.

What?! Surely such an atrocious event could never be!
nighcol
Profile Joined January 2012
298 Posts
November 03 2015 22:04 GMT
#1403
On November 04 2015 00:24 cheekymonkey wrote:
The point is however that it is not anyone's responsibility to provide reasonable or likely explanations as to whether a player might be innocent on a case to case basis. The accusation might seem very reasonable, but if the evidence is merely circumstantial (e.g. suspicious betting patterns & apparent throw), and no actual evidence implying guilt is at hand (e.g. actual proof of money transfer, or confession of guilt), then it's a matter of principles. It is too easy to dismiss any possible explanation as unlikely, and a community opinion might spiral out of control, effectively ruining the reputation of conceivably innocent players.


Well I happen to think that outside of court you don't need exactly the same standard of evidence as in a court of law and circumstantial evidence can lead to a conviction even in a court if there's enough of it. Multiple suspect games based on betting patterns and result, with one of them a really, really, really blatantly obvious looking throw might still well be enough if there is not even a single remotely plausible alternate explanation proposed. Usually in a court the defense also does indeed propose a version of the events, you know.

There are just different interests weighed against each other in this. On the one hand we have the importance of being able to openly discuss the evidence that exists and the players involved. On the other hand there is the threat of a case where TL community apparenty would crucify every single player that has a suspect game unless the noble moderators protect us from ourselves.

I think there could be a better compromise than the current line where it's not apparently even OK to state your opinion on the likelihood of guilt for players that have been involved in more than one match with cancelled bets and a result that seemed to match the betting pattern... You could still moderate to keep the discussion civil even when allowing that kind of statements, at least I don't see why not.
cheekymonkey
Profile Joined January 2014
France1387 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-03 23:02:40
November 03 2015 23:01 GMT
#1404
In my experience, TL does not moderate comments regarding voided bets, and the like. This is free information, and can't be disregarded. However, accusations of crime is another thing, hardly civil and shouldn't be allowed to be thrown around lightly, even though it's just your opinion.
20-Minute-Jackal
Profile Joined May 2015
United States336 Posts
November 04 2015 01:43 GMT
#1405
So are B4, YoDa, and Gerrard still in prison at this moment, or are they out on bail?
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway7261 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-04 02:01:40
November 04 2015 02:00 GMT
#1406
On November 04 2015 10:43 20-Minute-Jackal wrote:
So are B4, YoDa, and Gerrard still in prison at this moment, or are they out on bail?


They haven't seen a day in prison yet, and probably won't for a while (if at all). Also you can't bail out of prison, that's jail you're thinking of. Most likely they weren't in jail for more than a day, considering they're not high flight risk.
Damnitmynameistaken
Profile Joined May 2015
United States187 Posts
November 04 2015 02:50 GMT
#1407
On November 02 2015 14:20 nighcol wrote:
That, and the extremely suspicious way that one match was carried out as well as lack of any real information released that would exonerate him. Talking about something as simple as releasing the match replay and some of the reasoning for why MVP came to the conclusion he was innocent.


So let me ask you a few questions. Why would Kespa hide the fact that MarineKing matchfixed if according to you, those info were enough to accuse him of such a thing? Why did Kespa just open up with Yoda, B4 and Gerrard were involved in the scandal but not MarineKing? What effect would it have on the scene if MarineKing was exposed of such a thing? If you have followed the scene long enough, Kespa once exposed Savior for matchfixing back in the BW days and he was much more successful than these guys ever were. Why would they expose Savior and take away all his achievements and not do the same for MarineKing whose highest peaks only got him to silvers?

Also, all I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't rush to judgement too quickly without having any concrete evidence and only rely on what you think and the voided pinnacle bets. Remember, your words and accusations can hurt the players directly. Just look at the reason why Effort retired from SCII, his peers were suspected of him matchfixing when he didn't. You see what it can do to a progamer who might be innocent but because of our words forced retirement on them and/or make them unable to play the game they love any longer? So hold on to your judgement until more info comes out or now they are all just unjust accusations.

"Innocent until proven guilty" remember that.
nighcol
Profile Joined January 2012
298 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-04 12:50:04
November 04 2015 10:23 GMT
#1408
On November 04 2015 11:50 Damnitmynameistaken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2015 14:20 nighcol wrote:
That, and the extremely suspicious way that one match was carried out as well as lack of any real information released that would exonerate him. Talking about something as simple as releasing the match replay and some of the reasoning for why MVP came to the conclusion he was innocent.


So let me ask you a few questions. Why would Kespa hide the fact that MarineKing matchfixed if according to you, those info were enough to accuse him of such a thing? Why did Kespa just open up with Yoda, B4 and Gerrard were involved in the scandal but not MarineKing? What effect would it have on the scene if MarineKing was exposed of such a thing? If you have followed the scene long enough, Kespa once exposed Savior for matchfixing back in the BW days and he was much more successful than these guys ever were. Why would they expose Savior and take away all his achievements and not do the same for MarineKing whose highest peaks only got him to silvers?


It doesn't have to be KeSPA knowingly trying to conceal anything. That said, do we know who started the police investigation in the Yoda, B4 and Gerrard case? Could be that KeSPA didn't even have any power in that.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-04 17:12:51
November 04 2015 17:12 GMT
#1409
On November 04 2015 19:23 nighcol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2015 11:50 Damnitmynameistaken wrote:
On November 02 2015 14:20 nighcol wrote:
That, and the extremely suspicious way that one match was carried out as well as lack of any real information released that would exonerate him. Talking about something as simple as releasing the match replay and some of the reasoning for why MVP came to the conclusion he was innocent.


So let me ask you a few questions. Why would Kespa hide the fact that MarineKing matchfixed if according to you, those info were enough to accuse him of such a thing? Why did Kespa just open up with Yoda, B4 and Gerrard were involved in the scandal but not MarineKing? What effect would it have on the scene if MarineKing was exposed of such a thing? If you have followed the scene long enough, Kespa once exposed Savior for matchfixing back in the BW days and he was much more successful than these guys ever were. Why would they expose Savior and take away all his achievements and not do the same for MarineKing whose highest peaks only got him to silvers?


It doesn't have to be KeSPA knowingly trying to conceal anything. That said, do we know who started the police investigation in the Yoda, B4 and Gerrard case? Could be that KeSPA didn't even have any power in that.


No we don't know who initiated it, it really doesn't matter to the prosecutor so I doubt they'll tell us. But we have Kespa statements from over half year *before* Pinnacle said anything that they were forwarding leads to the police. I don't think the police kicked this off on their own, but maybe they did.

And that's really the thing, the police aren't going to say who's still under investigation, nor are they going to tell us who they've previously investigated and dropped pursuing. So it's really specious to draw correlation between the Yoda / B4 games with any of the other suspicious games.
SpunXtain20
Profile Joined January 2014
Australia554 Posts
November 05 2015 07:57 GMT
#1410
Lmao Yoda what the heck you sly dog
*Hugs all* | I came here to drink milk and kick asses, and I've just finished my milk.
var username
Profile Joined February 2011
52 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-09 03:09:05
November 09 2015 03:08 GMT
#1411
On November 02 2015 04:46 nighcol wrote:
What exactly is the rationale for not allowing any speculation on match fixing? If you can't even raise suspicions it seems like a really good way to support any such activity. Is there a similar policy for suspected cheaters on ladder? Can't really say I get the warning to swoopae's carefully constructed post...

I don't quite get the uproar over the standards of moderation. Unless you own the site or contribute significantly to it, especially financially, it is quite clear that the administration has no rational short-term incentive to pander to your whims over whichever long-term objectives they might have. And they have time and time again signalled such an intention very publicly.
Please adopt the party escort position.
AmatistA
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany113 Posts
November 10 2015 16:07 GMT
#1412
T_T holyshiet
This little bastard is Sieges addicted! cause I love the sound of the siege tank mode so you don't ? hear and feel my favorite sound ... didn't you hear? you realize that you have no units anymore!!!!
RevTiberius
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada353 Posts
November 21 2015 16:16 GMT
#1413
Looks like there haven't been any updates here for 10 days or so. Have there been any new announcements? I'd like to follow this story to the end.

Teaching Chess to a Starcraft 2 Grandmaster: http://revtiberius.blogspot.ca
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
November 21 2015 21:21 GMT
#1414
On November 04 2015 11:50 Damnitmynameistaken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2015 14:20 nighcol wrote:
That, and the extremely suspicious way that one match was carried out as well as lack of any real information released that would exonerate him. Talking about something as simple as releasing the match replay and some of the reasoning for why MVP came to the conclusion he was innocent.



"Innocent until proven guilty" remember that.


Most people here don't give a shit about that. Most countries in the world don't give a shit about that. If you get accused of something you are seen as guilty, such as in the case here. Nobody convicted yet, I believe, but guilty in the eyes of everyone regardless.

Ps. people still care about this? 0_0
Prev 1 69 70 71
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
19:30
Round of 16 / Group C
ViR[ReV]29
PassionCraft
18:00
Thursday Showdown #31
IndyStarCraft 370
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 1339
IndyStarCraft 370
UpATreeSC 242
ZombieGrub158
JuggernautJason 85
trigger 44
Dragon 36
DisKSc2 10
aXVindicta 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16197
Calm 3101
Mini 570
ggaemo 191
Dewaltoss 73
PianO 36
ajuk12(nOOB) 28
Dota 2
qojqva6413
EternaLEnVy602
420jenkins389
Pyrionflax324
canceldota207
capcasts56
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1164
C9.Mang0154
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu538
Other Games
tarik_tv26793
fl0m4156
x6flipin2388
Grubby2322
Skadoodle1662
Fnx 1090
Khaldor140
adren_tv114
Nathanias105
Trikslyr101
HugS8645
Hui .41
PPMD25
ToD8
HTOMario5
Organizations
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO61516
StarCraft 2
Esl_sc2109
ESL.tv109
StarCraft: Brood War
StarcraftVOD4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 29 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• MEDOEDLive 104
• Algost 39
• HorussTv 28
• Adnapsc2 27
• maralekos25
• 80smullet 7
• Vindicta 6
• Fallenger 4
• Bosshoore 4
• Gussbus
• Kozan
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Alpha X_
• intothetv
• aXEnki
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• Migwel
• Poblha
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Th1rdEye 3
• sscaitournament1
• BSLYoutube
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• STPLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV960
League of Legends
• TFBlade4900
• Jankos4876
Other Games
• imaqtpie1193
• Shiphtur604
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h
Korean StarCraft League
6h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
15h
HeRoMaRinE vs Gerald
Elazer vs INnoVation
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 15h
Maru vs Ryung
DongRaeGu vs NightMare
GuMiho vs Dark
Ryung vs NightMare
Maru vs DongRaeGu
Creator vs Scarlett
GuMiho vs Creator
Dark vs Scarlett
OSC
1d 15h
Sniper's StarCraft League
1d 21h
The NA Apprentice
1d 22h
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
Showmatch
2 days
Julia vs Jumper
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
Cure vs ByuN
TBD vs RagnaroK
TBD vs herO
Cure vs RagnaroK
ByuN vs TBD
Solar vs Stats
TBD vs Solar
herO vs Stats
[ Show More ]
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Bonyth vs Mihu
Amantes de StarCraft 2
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soulkey vs BeSt
Snow vs Light
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
hero vs sSak
Mind vs Bisu
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PassionCraft
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Focus Battle 65: Lx's Show Match
PiG Sty Festival 3.0
Tournament by teenyeu #2
CCT Central EU Malta Finals

Ongoing

FS Mania
CWCL Season 6
BWCL Season 58
Copa Latinoamericana
ASL Season 15
Individual Silver League
Spring Cup Season 4: China
KCM Ladies Race Survival 2023 Season 1
KCM Race Survival 2023 Season 1
BSL Season 16
Spring Cup Season 4
KOR-CHN Ladies Invitational League 1: Duck9 vs CoCo
KOR-CHN Invitational League 10: Organ vs Kid
WardiTV Korean Royale
WardiTV Winter 2023
NGS Storm Division S6
Calamity Cup Division A - Season 5
META Madness #7
ESL Pro League Season 17
ESL Challenger League S44 NA
ESL Challenger League S44 EU
ESL Challenger League S44 AP

Upcoming

CHN vs KOR Week35
DHM Summer
ESL Summer: Europe
ESL Summer: Asia
ESL Summer: Americas
WTL 2023 Summer
LTK Thunderball
BLAST.tv Paris Major 2023
ESL Challenger Melbourne 2023
IEM Rio 2023
BLAST.tv Paris 2023: EU RMR B
BLAST.tv Paris 2023: AME RMR
BLAST.tv Paris 2023: EU RMR A
BLAST.tv Paris 2023: APAC RMR
BLAST Premier Spring AME Showdown
BLAST Premier Spring EU Showdown
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2023 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.