EPTGreatest Players of All Time: Part 3 - Page 15
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
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nktiep
Vietnam40 Posts
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
#1 vs #2 is a tough one, but i'd say #1 | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On April 26 2015 10:30 Reptilia wrote: i feel like too many people are whining about placements without reading the post... Anytime Taeja is given even the smallest bit of credit for being the biggest wrecking ball of the international weekend tournament scene we have ever seen, people get butthurt. I have no idea why, save that it usually has something to do with obsessing about GSL as the be-all, end-all of SC2 skill. That being said, I've been very impressed by the criteria used thus far. They are rigorous and comprehensible to anyone who wants to dive into the data, and back up stuchiu's placings admirably. I can't wait for next week's portion when he gives #1 to Life and everyone's heads explode. Or, my preference, a tie for first between Life (undoubtedly the best player in the world of the past 3 years or so), and Mvp (the greatest strategic mind in the game's history, cut down by his injuries). Seriously, my heart is always with Mvp, but Life has that special ability to do stuff that literally no other player is capable of doing. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On April 26 2015 08:54 stuchiu wrote: Actually I rate Parting higher in innovation. It's his runs that hurt him. How? Rain has both of his OSL runs (1st and 2nd) but PartinG has a respectable 2nd in the recent GSL which is comparable to at least one OSL. Especially considering he took Life of all people to game 7 in the finals. Rain won WCS Asia, but PartinG got 2nd there and then won the WCS Global. Rain won the 2013 Hotsix cup, but PartinG got 2nd in the 2012 Blizzard Cup. Which had to be GOM's most rigorous end-of-the-year event what with having a bo3, round-robin group stage, AND it was dominated by Zergs with BL/infestor. As opposed to a ro8 4-day event that Rain won. Then there's the 2013 Global Championship where he narrowly lost 3-4 to Zest in the finals (he went through the qualifiers too). Rain's OSL win is still quite an advantage even considering all of the above, but surely PartinG makes up for the gap in having numerous wins/high placings abroad compared to Rain. == PartinG is also more consistent than Rain as well. Despite only about 8 months or so separating them in terms of their respective ascents to being relevant, PartinG has held up longer as a top-tier player. He has 7 ro8+ code S runs compared to Rain's 5. As well as the longest code S streak and he didn't get two code S seeds to put him on track like Rain did either. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 26 2015 09:32 Wombat_NI wrote: Wow, I had just assumed from the depth and the scope of the article that this was something of a collaborative effort, well played sir. I did all the research and all the writing. I asked for some opinions to see if people could convince me otherwise on the rankings and lichter/cosmic edited it. Shiro did the gfx. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19398 Posts
I posted before reading the first page comments. I guess I could complain the article is too wordy or some bs lol. | ||
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whatisthisasheep
624 Posts
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InExcelsis
United States38 Posts
On April 26 2015 06:18 Thrillz wrote: Taeja #3, not a complete farce argument under that criteria...... but how many people would actually say Taeja is #3? Lack of wins in Korea is like never winning a grand slam in tennis. Exactly what I said under "his criteria" I guess it can make sense but like I said if you were to ask people "Is Taeja the 3rd best player ever?" 99% would say NO. So this is just dumb he has 1 top 4 finish in his life in GSL and a bunch of Dreamhack, IEM, and Homestory Cup wins against lesser Europeans and a few other Koreans. If you don't beat the best you can't be included with the best plain and simple imo Taeja is #7 or #6 in SC2 era. Under this criteria yes I guess he is top 3 or 4 but in reality not even close to that he never beat the best playing in the hardest tournament its just like if Mayweather never fought Pacquiao he would never be considered one of the greatest cause he never fought the greatest opponent he could have in his time thats what Taeja has constantly been doing avoiding Korea and the GSL to play in lesser European tournaments even though he wins them its not as impressive no matter how dominant he is I'm sorry he's never been great when playing against the best of the best yeah he can win a series here or there but consistently look at him especially since he's had to go back to Korea he can't qualify for anything against the Kespa players SO WHY IS HE TOP 3 AGAIN? Oh yeah purely cause this specific "criteria" that's all I can't argue that but that doesn't make it close to fact or being truthful. | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 26 2015 10:35 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: How? Rain has both of his OSL runs (1st and 2nd) but PartinG has a respectable 2nd in the recent GSL which is comparable to at least one OSL. Especially considering he took Life of all people to game 7 in the finals. Rain won WCS Asia, but PartinG got 2nd there and then won the WCS Global. Rain won the 2013 Hotsix cup, but PartinG got 2nd in the 2012 Blizzard Cup. Which had to be GOM's most rigorous end-of-the-year event what with having a bo3, round-robin group stage, AND it was dominated by Zergs with BL/infestor. As opposed to a ro8 4-day event that Rain won. Then there's the 2013 Global Championship where he narrowly lost 3-4 to Zest in the finals (he went through the qualifiers too). Rain's OSL win is still quite an advantage even considering all of the above, but surely PartinG makes up for the gap in having numerous wins/high placings abroad compared to Rain. == PartinG is also more consistent than Rain as well. Despite only about 8 months or so separating them in terms of their respective ascents to being relevant, PartinG has held up longer as a top-tier player. He has 7 ro8+ code S runs compared to Rain's 5. As well as the longest code S streak and he didn't get two code S seeds to put him on track like Rain did either. Ah yes the famed WCS 2012 where he beat Illusion, Socke, Scarlett, Suppy, Sen and then Creator. The WCG run is completely fraudulent. The Global Championship run the only notable player he beat was San. (DRG, Hack, Fantasy, Squirtle were, MMA, Revival were not what I considered relevant names. None of them were played I'd make a hard stance and say this player right here is a Top 10 player of his race at that very moment. Well maybe DRG but in early 2014 the only four Zergs that gave you points for beating them were soO, Life, Soulkey and Solar. MMA didn't become a real ocntender until the latter half of 2014). Some of his runs were just too easy and in the list of the GOAT where one tournament run could mean the difference between being 19th or being 10th, the lack of beating really strong competition in some of his runs just wasn't enough. | ||
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Tesarul
Belgium79 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
I agree there's probably only a SMALL window where I would have called Taeja a "top 3" player... And his peak has never been that high (no KR LAN wins etc). However, there's a BIG window where I might have agreed to call him "top 5". His consistent domination at weekend tournaments is simply second to none. Since this article is more about "all time" best I can see that being a large factor. | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On April 26 2015 11:28 stuchiu wrote: Also I think it very likely that after this season of GSL/SSL/Kespa Cup Maru/Parting/sOs will likely shoot up and kick out a lot of players in the GOAT list. This makes me think that the break between seasons 1 and 2 of an unusually busy year such as this was a bad time to release a GOAT list. I can easily see anything outside of the top five changing drastically depending on player performances. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17750 Posts
On April 26 2015 11:42 The_Templar wrote: This makes me think that the break between seasons 1 and 2 of an unusually busy year such as this was a bad time to release a GOAT list. I can easily see anything outside of the top five changing drastically depending on player performances. Gotta do it again after Blizzcon before everyone switches to LotV! | ||
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Kyir
United States1047 Posts
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InExcelsis
United States38 Posts
On April 26 2015 11:23 y0su wrote: Been thinking about it a bit more... I agree there's probably only a SMALL window where I would have called Taeja a "top 3" player... And his peak has never been that high (no KR LAN wins etc). However, there's a BIG window where I might have agreed to call him "top 5". His consistent domination at weekend tournaments is simply second to none. Since this article is more about "all time" best I can see that being a large factor. Yes I agree his weekend tournament domination was second to none but once again he was also playing in Dreamhacks, Homestory Cups, and IEM's where he almost half the time didn't see a somewhat close to top tier korean until the RO8 or SEMI's which diminishes this "Dominance" in my mind since he's playing the likes of Has, Harstem, Kas, Happy, Socke, Mana, ToD, Targa, NIghtend, Ret, Goswser, Dimaga, TLO, Happy, GoOdy, etc. I'm sorry but that shit doesn't even come close to stacking up against the GSL. His wins are in tournaments where he basically walks to the semis to finals dominant or not it isnt that impressive given his competition | ||
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On April 26 2015 11:52 InExcelsis wrote: Yes I agree his weekend tournament domination was second to none but once again he was also playing in Dreamhacks, Homestory Cups, and IEM's where he almost half the time didn't see a somewhat close to top tier korean until the RO8 or SEMI's which diminishes this "Dominance" in my mind since he's playing the likes of Has, Harstem, Kas, Happy, Socke, Mana, ToD, Targa, NIghtend, Ret, Goswser, Dimaga, TLO, Happy, GoOdy, etc. I'm sorry but that shit doesn't even come close to stacking up against the GSL. His wins are in tournaments where he basically walks to the semis to finals dominant or not it isnt that impressive given his competition I wonder what the list would be like we had all the KeSPA players playing every weekend tournament like Taeja did | ||
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InExcelsis
United States38 Posts
On April 26 2015 11:56 Alucen-Will- wrote: I wonder what the list would be like we had all the KeSPA players playing every weekend tournament like Taeja did It would be retardedly different cause Taeja would have won 10% of what he did imo but we will never know Taeja is so over hyped based on his wins, I'm sorry but he has hardly ever beat elite competition to win an elite title to go along with that elite status so many seem to be happy to give him so easily I respect him fully don't get me wrong but NOBODY ON EARTH could convince me he is a top 3 all time SC2 player NOT A CHANCE!!!!! | ||
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