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Pinnacle voids Soulkey vs Creator bets - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
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LongShot27
Profile Joined May 2013
United States2084 Posts
April 15 2015 16:47 GMT
#201
On April 16 2015 01:45 Darthsanta13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:29 sitromit wrote:
This sounds like bullshit to me, sorry.

Soulkey is a player who has a legitimate chance at a high finish when he's on form. Why would he throw away not only his chance to get into Code S, but also at making WCS top 16 and going to Blizzcon?

I bet people said the same thing about BW match fixing allegations.


Yes but they eventually had actual proof, not just betting lines
If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18674 Posts
April 15 2015 16:48 GMT
#202
On April 16 2015 01:29 sitromit wrote:
This sounds like bullshit to me, sorry.

Soulkey is a player who has a legitimate chance at a high finish when he's on form. Why would he throw away not only his chance to get into Code S, but also at making WCS top 16 and going to Blizzcon?


Why would the most popular BW zerg player (savior) ever fix matches? -.-
There is no "he is so good and so rich he surely won't matchfix" logic. BW proved us that
LongShot27
Profile Joined May 2013
United States2084 Posts
April 15 2015 16:48 GMT
#203
On April 16 2015 01:46 maGicc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:39 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:29 sitromit wrote:
This sounds like bullshit to me, sorry.

Soulkey is a player who has a legitimate chance at a high finish when he's on form. Why would he throw away not only his chance to get into Code S, but also at making WCS top 16 and going to Blizzcon?


That's because it is bullshit


I am not sure why you so emotionally invested in this, but all your posts very weak when it comes to arguments.

Its a battle of simple data vs emotions, and its clear on which side you are on.


Its not an issue of "trusting a bunch of gamblers", its trusting the data. The data is out there, its neutral, its just facts. You are choosing to ignore it, but it doesnt make it less true.


Your "data" is betting lines, that does not constitute evidence. Data isn't neutral when it is provided by someone with a staked interest in it. What the hell is wrong with you?
If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it.
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
April 15 2015 16:48 GMT
#204
On April 16 2015 01:29 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 00:54 Yorbon wrote:
On April 16 2015 00:44 Jarree wrote:
On April 16 2015 00:14 sAsImre wrote:
On April 15 2015 23:21 Swoopae wrote:
On April 15 2015 23:20 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 15 2015 23:17 bananafone wrote:
On April 15 2015 22:46 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 15 2015 22:43 Swoopae wrote:
On April 15 2015 22:41 LongShot27 wrote:
I just don't care anymore


This is why match fixing will continue. If we don't care, the game is dead. If we do care, we can apply pressure on Kespa to investigate. A few articles, a few tweets, it doesn't take much effort to actually do something about it.


No I don't care because this wasn't match fixing, nothing in this match was suspect whatsoever but this godforsaken excuse for a community is believing a bunch of gamblers over their common sense.


If you we're to throw a match how would you do it? Clearly a not very obvious way would be good. Everyone who has ever played starcraft have probably thrown lots of games by accident and subsequently raged. Throwing games in a non-suspect fashion isn't hard and it's done all the time by people trying their best to do the exact opposite.

This community is not using stupid excuses to witch hunt and forgetting about common sense. At this point probability answers the question for you. I'd suggest you go pick up a book about statistics and probability if you don't understand what is going on with the bet voiding. To simplify massively and make it easy to understand; each of these voided bets can be seen as an extraodinary event (like rolling ten sixes in a row with a normal die). In and of themselves the voided bets are very suspicious, but its hard to conclude that something weird is definetely going on. The same thing is true for the die example. Rolling ten sixes in a row is going to happen if you roll enough times, its just how probability works. However probability also says that if it happens enough times within a short span of time then maybe its time to check if the die is loaded. If someone rolls ten sixes in a row, goes to the toilet, comes back and rolls ten sixes in a row again you'll start to suspect that something is going on. Especially if you had money on that not happening. That is just common sense.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Wake the fuck up.


You. Have. Zero. Proof. Whatsoever.


No, there is plenty of proof, you're just ignoring it because you don't understand it.


and you don't understand what proof means.
Obviously there is match fixing going on since it plagued everything (Champion's League and WC in football) but the amount of proof is so small that nothing gets done in any sport.
Main problem is that betting is a cancer for any competitive activity.

No mate, you don't understand.

If I post next week's lottery numbers today and they turn out to be right, it's one hell of a lucky guess. But when it happens 2 weeks in a row, or 3 or 4 weeks, it becomes proof that I somehow know the lottery numbers beforehand and the lottery machine is rigged. This is what is happening in Korean sc2 scene.
Wouldn't that be called evidence? English isn't my first language, though.

Isn't it the same really?
http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/vertaal/NL/EN/bewijs

It's becáuse it's a homonym in dutch that confusion could rise.
maGicc
Profile Joined March 2015
Finland134 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 16:52:18
April 15 2015 16:50 GMT
#205
On April 16 2015 01:48 LongShot27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:46 maGicc wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:39 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:29 sitromit wrote:
This sounds like bullshit to me, sorry.

Soulkey is a player who has a legitimate chance at a high finish when he's on form. Why would he throw away not only his chance to get into Code S, but also at making WCS top 16 and going to Blizzcon?


That's because it is bullshit


I am not sure why you so emotionally invested in this, but all your posts very weak when it comes to arguments.

Its a battle of simple data vs emotions, and its clear on which side you are on.


Its not an issue of "trusting a bunch of gamblers", its trusting the data. The data is out there, its neutral, its just facts. You are choosing to ignore it, but it doesnt make it less true.


Your "data" is betting lines, that does not constitute evidence. Data isn't neutral when it is provided by someone with a staked interest in it. What the hell is wrong with you?


Yes it is neutral. Unless you are implying that Pinnacle is fixing/faking the betting lines to void the match before it even started. Is that what you are implying? Are you serious?

Also, "a betting line does not constitute evidence" when it comes to matchfixing? Really?

You are a joke, or a troll.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28532 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 16:53:37
April 15 2015 16:52 GMT
#206
On April 16 2015 01:50 maGicc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:48 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:46 maGicc wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:39 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:29 sitromit wrote:
This sounds like bullshit to me, sorry.

Soulkey is a player who has a legitimate chance at a high finish when he's on form. Why would he throw away not only his chance to get into Code S, but also at making WCS top 16 and going to Blizzcon?


That's because it is bullshit


I am not sure why you so emotionally invested in this, but all your posts very weak when it comes to arguments.

Its a battle of simple data vs emotions, and its clear on which side you are on.


Its not an issue of "trusting a bunch of gamblers", its trusting the data. The data is out there, its neutral, its just facts. You are choosing to ignore it, but it doesnt make it less true.


Your "data" is betting lines, that does not constitute evidence. Data isn't neutral when it is provided by someone with a staked interest in it. What the hell is wrong with you?


Yes it is neutral. Unless you are implying that Pinnacle is fixing/faking the betting lines to void the match before it even started. Is that what you are implying? Are you serious? You are a joke.

It seems, indeed, that that's exactly what he's implying. No matter though, the only thing that does is that important people open their mouths about this. So far, none did.. :/

Edit: Also: 11 pages, sorry Gumba
I Protoss winner, could it be?
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6331 Posts
April 15 2015 16:58 GMT
#207
At this point I'm not sure about the purpose of these kind of thread any more.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
April 15 2015 17:01 GMT
#208
On April 16 2015 01:58 digmouse wrote:
At this point I'm not sure about the purpose of these kind of thread any more.

To let people know that they're watching a fixed sport, which some people actually don't care to do. Some like pro-wrestling, and others like actual competition
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2781 Posts
April 15 2015 17:03 GMT
#209
This is dangerous and depressing to speculate about .
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
swag_bro
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
Japan782 Posts
April 15 2015 17:05 GMT
#210
On April 15 2015 22:02 boxerfred wrote:
I'm getting closer and closer to being done with Korean SC2.


Sorry to break it to you man, but Korean SC2, hell even foreign SC2, has always been like this.
They hate us 'cause they ain't us.
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
April 15 2015 17:05 GMT
#211
On April 16 2015 01:58 digmouse wrote:
At this point I'm not sure about the purpose of these kind of thread any more.


it's true, the discussion doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

TL could do a weekly update on all the voided bets and suspicious games from that week. Or a page on liquipedia that keeps track of it. There could even be a leader board for the players involved in the most matches with voided bets.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28532 Posts
April 15 2015 17:06 GMT
#212
On April 16 2015 02:03 Qwyn wrote:
This is dangerous and depressing to speculate about .

It is depressing (don't see why dangerous) but probably better than going full ostrich imo
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Thax
Profile Joined July 2014
Belgium1060 Posts
April 15 2015 17:07 GMT
#213
And I'm ditching Korean leagues.

Even if it's hard to proof who exactly is fixing*, the evidence undeniably shows that it's happening and it's happening frequently.

*Except MK. My reaction to that as I saw it live was: "He just intentionally threw the match ...", and that was before I knew about dodgy betting behaviour.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
April 15 2015 17:07 GMT
#214
On April 16 2015 02:05 swag_bro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 22:02 boxerfred wrote:
I'm getting closer and closer to being done with Korean SC2.


Sorry to break it to you man, but Korean SC2, hell even foreign SC2, has always been like this.

swag_bro, you're supposed to be funny not sad

On April 16 2015 02:05 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:58 digmouse wrote:
At this point I'm not sure about the purpose of these kind of thread any more.


it's true, the discussion doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

TL could do a weekly update on all the voided bets and suspicious games from that week. Or a page on liquipedia that keeps track of it. There could even be a leader board for the players involved in the most matches with voided bets.

MarineKing can finally be the best in Korea at something
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 15 2015 17:09 GMT
#215
I'm all out of care after the MKP thread where absolutely nothing ended up happening, hurray for WWEsports!
maGicc
Profile Joined March 2015
Finland134 Posts
April 15 2015 17:09 GMT
#216
On April 16 2015 02:03 Qwyn wrote:
This is dangerous and depressing to speculate about .


When the bets getting voided weekly and ppl like Huk/Rekrul confirm matchfixing in korea its not really a speculation anymore in my opinion.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6331 Posts
April 15 2015 17:10 GMT
#217
On April 16 2015 02:01 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:58 digmouse wrote:
At this point I'm not sure about the purpose of these kind of thread any more.

To let people know that they're watching a fixed sport, which some people actually don't care to do. Some like pro-wrestling, and others like actual competition

Sure, maybe, but are we really getting solid evidence/reasoning, constructive discussion or whatever in here now?
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
phil.ipp
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria1067 Posts
April 15 2015 17:15 GMT
#218
On April 16 2015 01:50 maGicc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:48 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:46 maGicc wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:39 LongShot27 wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:29 sitromit wrote:
This sounds like bullshit to me, sorry.

Soulkey is a player who has a legitimate chance at a high finish when he's on form. Why would he throw away not only his chance to get into Code S, but also at making WCS top 16 and going to Blizzcon?


That's because it is bullshit


I am not sure why you so emotionally invested in this, but all your posts very weak when it comes to arguments.

Its a battle of simple data vs emotions, and its clear on which side you are on.


Its not an issue of "trusting a bunch of gamblers", its trusting the data. The data is out there, its neutral, its just facts. You are choosing to ignore it, but it doesnt make it less true.


Your "data" is betting lines, that does not constitute evidence. Data isn't neutral when it is provided by someone with a staked interest in it. What the hell is wrong with you?


Yes it is neutral. Unless you are implying that Pinnacle is fixing/faking the betting lines to void the match before it even started. Is that what you are implying? Are you serious?

Also, "a betting line does not constitute evidence" when it comes to matchfixing? Really?

You are a joke, or a troll.


Sorry but, these "data" are not facts, you didnt collect them yourself, you dont even know how they are collected, they are just presented to you, and you, because of reasons unknown to me, believe in them. the only fact here is that you believe these data to be true, you dont know anything.

a bit of reservation would do you pretty good.

of course all this doesnt mean the data isnt correct. and you are of course free to draw any conclusion you want from it. but lashing out to people who say these data are maybe not neutral, is i think far more than you should ever do, when all your information is just a press release of a gambling site.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
April 15 2015 17:15 GMT
#219
On April 16 2015 02:10 digmouse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 02:01 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On April 16 2015 01:58 digmouse wrote:
At this point I'm not sure about the purpose of these kind of thread any more.

To let people know that they're watching a fixed sport, which some people actually don't care to do. Some like pro-wrestling, and others like actual competition

Sure, maybe, but are we really getting solid evidence/reasoning, constructive discussion or whatever in here now?

No, but do most threads have solid reasoning and discussion? Not really. I'm not sure if it's better to sweep this under the rug and just stop watching Korean tournaments for good or publicize this as much as possible, but honestly people should know they're favorite players are taking bribes. If I were a big Soulkey fan I'd like to know to stop doing that
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
maGicc
Profile Joined March 2015
Finland134 Posts
April 15 2015 17:16 GMT
#220
On April 16 2015 02:05 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2015 01:58 digmouse wrote:
At this point I'm not sure about the purpose of these kind of thread any more.


it's true, the discussion doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

TL could do a weekly update on all the voided bets and suspicious games from that week. Or a page on liquipedia that keeps track of it. There could even be a leader board for the players involved in the most matches with voided bets.


The purpose is to educate as much people as possible.

Problem is, community is still being treated as clueless sheeps.

I am sorry but when Wolf says on air that "its best we all just forget about it" after the most blatant case of the matchfix - its pretty freaking offensive to any intellegent viewer out there.
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