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ZeromuS
Canada13388 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:10 digmouse wrote: Sure, maybe, but are we really getting solid evidence/reasoning, constructive discussion or whatever in here now? Just a bunch of rabble rabble usually. The alternative involves accusations of "coverup" though. :/ | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:17 ZeromuS wrote: Just a bunch of rabble rabble usually. The alternative involves accusations of "coverup" though. :/ I don't see how closing discussion on something that basically invalidates the entire scene is anything but a cover-up. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:16 maGicc wrote: The purpose is to educate as much people as possible. Problem is, community is still being treated as clueless sheeps. I am sorry but when Wolf says on air that "its best we all just forget about it" after the most blatant case of the matchfix - its pretty freaking offensive to any intellegent viewer out there. I'm surprised wolf even commented on it on air, I really doubt his employer approves of that. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:15 phil.ipp wrote: Sorry but, these "data" are not facts, you didnt collect them yourself, you dont even know how they are collected, they are just presented to you, and you, because of reasons unknown to me, believe in them. the only fact here is that you believe these data to be true, you dont know anything. a bit of reservation would do you pretty good. of course all this doesnt mean the data isnt correct. and you are of course free to draw any conclusion you want from it. but lashing out to people who say these data are maybe not neutral, is i think far more than you should ever do, when all your information is just a press release of a gambling site. THIS^^^^ No one is saying that there isn't matchfixing. LITERALLY NO ONE. The point is there is no solid proof that any of what has been called matchfixing is. You are making accusations that are damning to peoples careers and lives and you lose nothing by doing that while they stand to lose EVERYTHING the data may be correct, but alone it means nothing | ||
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Wintex
Norway16836 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I don't see how closing discussion on something that basically invalidates the entire scene is anything but a cover-up. It's fine when it's a discussion, SGTK. The problem is what it usually devolves to. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10667 Posts
On April 15 2015 21:51 lichter wrote: can we take bets on how long it takes for this thread to become too terrible to live? LOL.......This is so sad, I hope SoulKey isn't involved in this, one of my favorite players from BW. | ||
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Exstasy
United Kingdom393 Posts
On April 16 2015 01:35 maGicc wrote: The map discussion is not really relevant here, with the current tourney system's, the players get to pick/ban, which results in a balanced map pool for both parties. Additionally, no one can know who gets to pick/ban first. Its not like in Cs:Go, where you can often see map right in the betting line. In Sc2 betting, map 1 is just map 1, you will almost never know which map will it be. I know, what I'm saying is without map info it makes it a less informed guess. All you have as someone betting is : soulkey vs creator bo5, you then look at the odds that soulkey is favourite for the series and then its not unreasonable to guess that creator would all in map 1 | ||
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Darthsanta13
United States564 Posts
On that note, it really is strange to me how incredibly untrusting many people on here are of people from the betting community and the information they provide as it relates to SC2. The idea that so many people here buy into the stereotype that all bettors are addicted to gambling, all betting sites are shady and just after their own interests, etc. etc. is crazy, considering that we're all here on a website discussing people who devote their lives to playing video games. It's no secret that we deal with many of the same or similar preconceived notions, that people who play video games all day are lazy, shut-ins, addicted to video games, and so on. Clearly, we know how frustrating and untrue those stereotypes can be. So you would think that we as a community would be able to look past preconceived notions of a similar community more easily than most. It doesn't feel like that though. | ||
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maGicc
Finland134 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:15 phil.ipp wrote: of course all this doesnt mean the data isnt correct. and you are of course free to draw any conclusion you want from it. but lashing out to people who say these data are maybe not neutral, is i think far more than you should ever do, when all your information is just a press release of a gambling site. Its not a "press release of a gambling site", its the movement of the betting lines. The info was publicly availible to anyone and updated in real time. People observed it. There is no rational reason to assume that the movement is not legit. If you do - then please provide atleast a reasonable hypothetis on why on earth Pinnacle would "fake" the movement of the betting lines to justify a void of the match before its even started. Unless someone will do that - its more than reasonable to trust their data. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On April 15 2015 22:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Until you show me money being put in players hands, and/or conversations recorded/logged you don't have real proof, imo. Nothing that would stand up to any sort of legal matter involving accusing a player of matchfixing. So you think Aaron Hernandez should be free, right? All the evidence was circumstantial. You don't need to show that a guy showed up at the bank, pulled out a gun, told the teller he wanted money, then took the money and ran to prove he robbed the bank. Otherwise, big banks and the mafia would never go to jail. | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:20 LongShot27 wrote: THIS^^^^ No one is saying that there isn't matchfixing. LITERALLY NO ONE. The point is there is no solid proof that any of what has been called matchfixing is. You are making accusations that are damning to peoples careers and lives and you lose nothing by doing that while they stand to lose EVERYTHING the data may be correct, but alone it means nothing The data means a hell of a lot, the movement was clear and observed by multiple people. But please continue to keep your head in the sand and keep using the "LA LA LA NOT LISTENING" defence | ||
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Penev
28463 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:30 starslayer wrote: At this point kespa,gsl,whoever needs to put a year/even life time ban on players that are doing this. Sadly I don't think they care or are taking there sweet time to gather all the evidence before they go and do something as drastic as a ban,which if they are then I'll understand, if not SMH. Honestly this is going to be sad to say cause I'm a huge fan of MKP but he needs a ban to be made an example same with SK if true didn't watch the games. Really something should be done but bitching on TL will do nothing. I wouldn't mind a temporary ban only for these 5 cases. So forgiveness this one time, just to get them to talk. I'm a dreamer | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:28 BronzeKnee wrote: So you think Aaron Hernandez should be free, right? All the evidence was circumstantial. You don't need to show that a guy showed up at the bank, pulled out a gun, told the teller he wanted money, then took the money and ran to prove he robbed the bank. Otherwise, big banks and the mafia would never go to jail. Uh, yes you fucking do | ||
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maGicc
Finland134 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:20 LongShot27 wrote: The point is there is no solid proof that any of what has been called matchfixing is. 1. What proof is "solid" in this case, in your opinion? 2. Did you see a MKP-Byul match, do you think that the the betting line + the way the match looked is enough to say that match was 99% fixed? I suspect that "solid proof" in your opinion would be something like skype logs of a player accepting the bribe. In this case, the only way to get a solid proof is pressure the Kespa to investigate the accused players. Its not going to magically appear to us out of nowhere. "Just forgetting about it" and "stopping accusing players" while waiting for this "solid evidence" would never get us anywhere, you will just keep seeing bets getting voided every week. I am not really ok with this. | ||
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Disarmed
Austria721 Posts
until now i thought that you're just really angry for whatever reason and are too emotionally invested to discuss anything rationally but with this post you have proven that you don't have the slightest single clue what the fuck you are talking about. | ||
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Tuhill
Scotland13 Posts
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Disarmed
Austria721 Posts
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:27 Darthsanta13 wrote: One productive thing that has come out of repeated threads is that more and more people are at least willing to open their minds to the possibility that this is happening. In the first thread, it felt like 75% of the posts were something along the lines of "I know nothing about betting, but bettors are evil and their evidence is presented in a way that I don't fully understand so I disagree with it" whereas only about a quarter of the posts in this thread are like this. (I'm being partially facetious but it is really progress)... On that note, it really is strange to me how incredibly untrusting many people on here are of people from the betting community and the information they provide as it relates to SC2. The idea that so many people here buy into the stereotype that all bettors are addicted to gambling, all betting sites are shady and just after their own interests, etc. etc. is crazy, considering that we're all here on a website discussing people who devote their lives to playing video games. It's no secret that we deal with many of the same or similar preconceived notions, that people who play video games all day are lazy, shut-ins, addicted to video games, and so on. Clearly, we know how frustrating and untrue those stereotypes can be. So you would think that we as a community would be able to look past preconceived notions of a similar community more easily than most. It doesn't feel like that though. Well, do you honestly find that surprising when bettors are the ones behind matchfixing to start with? It's quite ironic to say people should be more trusting about people betting on the game that's under scrutiny due to betting gone wrong. ~~ | ||
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