EPTFireCake delivers his opinion about the last patch - Page 8
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Elentos
55572 Posts
On April 14 2015 06:27 LastManProductions wrote: They only made the SH change because people complained. Now they nerf SH and people complain. Can't have it both ways. The people =/= the people. They should have kept the SH the same until LotV so they at least keep the game balanced. | ||
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FireCake
151 Posts
On April 14 2015 06:09 Vanadiel wrote: In your opinion, what would have been the best way to change the SH so the game is : - still balanced, and - makes long turtle-play non possible anymore? Because within HOTS, I don't see how to do this. The SH could be a support unit, i would like these changes : -Drastically reduce the DPS of locust -Remove the size of the locusts (every zerg units can walk through locusts) -Buff HP/life of the locust -Locust range reduce to 0 The idea is to use the locusts as a meat shield to protect more important units such as hydralisk which are very weak. With these changes zergs can no longer rely only on SH because of the very low DPS. And also, its a lot more interesting to attack. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On April 14 2015 02:52 Charoisaur wrote: agreed. firecake should just accept he got outplayed. If he would practice in the time he cries maybe he would have found already a solution. Happy played that whole series really bad. Mech, believe it or not, is here to stay vs Zerg. I honestly hope it dominates the meta now and that koreans learn how to properly do the turtle mech, just to show how incredibly strong it is to slowly take a 4th and enjoy your freewin now when swarmhosts cant compete against it. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On April 14 2015 06:42 FireCake wrote: The SH could be a support unit, i would like these changes : -Drastically reduce the DPS of locust -Remove the size of the locusts (every zerg units can walk through locusts) -Buff HP/life of the locust -Locust range reduce to 0 The idea is to use the locusts as a meat shield to protect more important units such as hydralisk which are very weak. With these changes zergs can no longer rely only on SH because of the very low DPS. And also, its a lot more interesting to attack. I don't know if that would really work. Converting locusts to meatshield is not very useful against mech, since Hellbat's AoE would still wreck them very hard. With reduced damage, any good mecher would try to focus the DPS units (roaches and Hydras). And I don't know if they would be midgame/lategame useful against Protoss. Any lategame is very rich on AoE. The problem againstTerran mech is that PDD stops a minimal projectile, something that it shouldn't really counter. So even when Locusts were arriving to the turtle mecher, they couldn't do damage. That interaction is worth a review, even if it feels balanced with the nerf on PDD. That ability made no sense by bein 180s by default. The pathing problem is solved in 10s with decreased push priority to 9. Zerg suffers a lot against well protected lines by Colossus/sentry and Tank/Hellbat. That's why I think that the flying locusts is possibly the only one of the things they nailed. Increased utility and mobility, and some guaranteed damage. Flying locusts are good as antiturtles. In my vision I would like to see them with: - reduced DPS, reduced lifetime, reduced ability CD - increased speed, given antiground weapon, keep the "land" ability. Maybe if we get rid of the PDD interaction (makes sense, roach missile isn't affected either) and we revert the cost changes, but keeping in mind the mobility thing and the removal of extended locusts and the downtime? LOL multiplayer dependency is not even updated. @Firecake, what do you think about the campaign SwarmHost? | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
What is the Zerg late game army now? | ||
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Swoopae
Australia339 Posts
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
On April 14 2015 06:36 Elentos wrote: The people =/= the people. They should have kept the SH the same until LotV so they at least keep the game balanced. More like terran+protoss =/= zerg | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
Protoss. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On April 14 2015 21:17 IcemanAsi wrote: To anyone who thinks this is a good change, the question remains: What is the Zerg late game army now? depends on what you're facing but off the top of my head I would go with broodlords/ultralisks/queens/vipers zvp and no idea against mech terran | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On April 16 2015 00:53 insitelol wrote: Yeeeeeeees sweeeet zerg tears. I hate zergs. Muahahahaha. Protoss. What a highly constructive attitude. | ||
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FireCake
151 Posts
On April 14 2015 07:45 JCoto wrote:@Firecake, what do you think about the campaign SwarmHost? I didn't play SwarmHost in the campaign, i only used Kerrigan baneling spell. | ||
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I1ussion
Germany10 Posts
Zerg even got the TL-award for manliest race for not bitching about balance 2014 and they are about to not make it again in 2015. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 16 2015 01:30 I1ussion wrote: Actually, Life uses swarmhosts vs mech. He doesn't go the same long game viper abduct style as foreigner style but rather as an ablative meat shield to use infestor energy and ultras behind, but he totally uses swarmhosts.I support Blizzard with this decision. The way Zerg lategame played out lately is just bad. 4 hour games, boring waves of locust crushing into tanks/raven or colossus/tempest. Blizzard had to change something. And the fact, that there are still Zerg playing for tournament wins shows is isnt that bad. Even the current GSL champ is Zerg, WCS runner-up is zerg. There must be something that makes them win without swarmhosts. Zerg even got the TL-award for manliest race for not bitching about balance 2014 and they are about to not make it again in 2015. | ||
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I1ussion
Germany10 Posts
On April 16 2015 02:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Actually, Life uses swarmhosts vs mech. He doesn't go the same long game viper abduct style as foreigner style but rather as an ablative meat shield to use infestor energy and ultras behind, but he totally uses swarmhosts. And that's the problem. The viper abduct style is just ridiculously boring to watch, because it takes so long. Maybe Zerg will have problems now and that should be fixed, but there has to be something else than swarmhosts to stop makeing these games where both turtle up happen. I dont know what Blizzard should do, but they had to do something and this is a good start. | ||
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TheoMikkelsen
Denmark196 Posts
However, zerg has a lot of tools - superior economy - faster maxing - faster teching - tools that which allow zerg to play like they do. If anything, Protoss allins should be nerfed rather than buffing zerg lategame. I do not see how you can keep a race like zerg with these mechanical advantages in terms of production, teching, mobility and map control with the same turtle strength as protoss balanced. I would much rather see protoss favored in the lategame, but weaker with allins, cheese and gimmicky hidden-tech play. In fact, I would like to see this reduced across all matchups. TVZ, however, looks to be more and more terran favored in my all honesty. The solution here is more unclear to me, but I think hellbat buffs and likewise timings seem to be too strong, and mech in general seem to be hard for zerg to bust since mech units are stronger than protoss units versus zerg, since most of the units have splash and lategame value. I think it´s necessary to look even more on the raven, perhaps, since the raven is basically the ultimate unit of starcraft 2. Essentially, Hydras should not be affected by point defence drones in my opinion, and instead of buffing the swarmhost to bypass thor splash or something similar like adding tanking, I would much rather see the unit used as an harass unit instead of thinking that the entire zerg race is about the swarmhost. If changes should be made to the swarmhost, it should be to fix the drone/roach concept in ZvZ. Unless changes to swarmhost can fix that problem, then I disagree that the problem currently lies with the exiting swarmhosts role. Sure, I would agree slight buffs such as 3 supply instead of 4 is reasonable, and a slight resource cost, but beyond that I think it is a mistake to think zerg needs a per se lategame viable composition with the current macro mechanics the race has. A last option is to give corrupters a slight buff to massive damage but that will not fix anything in ZVT, assuming there are problems in that matchup. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 16 2015 03:32 I1ussion wrote: Wha's the problem? You said that Life wins without using swarmhosts. The fact is, he does use swarmhosts vs mech.And that's the problem. The viper abduct style is just ridiculously boring to watch, because it takes so long. Maybe Zerg will have problems now and that should be fixed, but there has to be something else than swarmhosts to stop makeing these games where both turtle up happen. I dont know what Blizzard should do, but they had to do something and this is a good start. | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5524 Posts
T_T | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
On April 17 2015 02:19 sparklyresidue wrote: 3 base overlord drop roach allin??? with support nydus!!? sign me up! T_T would be awesome if ovidrop would be buffed to compensate (not only for all ins but especially to harrass and spread out mech units more) and help the bad harrass capabilities Z has overall. oh and who doesnt want to see dimaga going for banedrops ZvP again?! best style ever :D | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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