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On February 09 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
reposted from mal's tourny thread:
The community is prone to witch hunts. Lets try to be self aware.
Regardless of where the money is coming from for this tournament, I think Mal should promote his sponsors a little bit more. I had to go digging to find any mention of who is putting up the money at all. How can they consider this efficient marketing if the viewers can't even figure out what products are being sold?
I know Mal doesn't get ad revenue from Twitch (unless that changed since his last tournament) so he must rely on pleasing sponsors to be able to host tournaments at all.
Sponsors (?)
-PSH company (Hunting safari company on twitter is all I found here)
-PSISTORM gaming
-2LD (he links to 2ld.info but it won't load for me, just an unused blog)
-DSP design (processors I think)
Seems weird for psistorm to sponsor a tournament without having its own players in it, or at least advertising the team somehow during it.
PSISTORM's legit, that much I can say. sponsoring a tournament w/o their own players imo is already something that would keep them out of issues. Advertising the team during it though, that's probably for the organizer, depending on what their sponsorship deal says.
about this, match fixing isn't the case (but could be) so this is an entirely new issue and players aren't directly affected or somewhat to blame. the end effect of this would be another negative hit to the sc2 community which makes me sad :/
so many times i try to look for sponsors for local tournaments here but oh wells hmmm
but that doesn't mean i'm gonna stop trying 
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So, what do people expect Blizzard to do in this case?
Ban match-fixing players from WCS events? Sure
But they can't touch betting sites, they are just a video game company and god knows which country hosts these sites
The only thing I can see them doing is shutting down the small on-line tournaments, which would be suicide at this point
It would be bad for everyone
[]'s
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Oh I know Frehley. Blizzard is in a tough position, because any decision they take could have a negative impact on the grassroot scene.
These small tournaments are important to the scene, as they feed the audience their SC2 fix while the big tourneys are getting set up.
If Blizzard makes it harder for smaller tournaments to be organized, we might not see anymore BTTV do many more tournaments. They certainly can't do nothing though, as this requires attention and action.
I feel like no matter what is done, we are going to end up with more problems in the end.
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This comes as no surprise at all.
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On February 09 2015 09:15 N.geNuity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 09:02 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 09 2015 08:55 Kuchikikun wrote:On February 09 2015 05:01 Popkiller wrote:On February 09 2015 04:55 stuchiu wrote:On February 09 2015 04:47 sc2chronic wrote:On February 09 2015 04:45 blade55555 wrote:
Wow CS GO now sc2? That's crazy. whats next? boxing and horse racing?? At least no one will ever rig a world series for baseball some things are sacred That already happened http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal It was sarcasm... when did "Romanian" die as a TL meme? I haven't seen it since like, 2011 at least. probably never made it into the sc2 forums anyways original threadthe saga continues (with immediate idra post too!)
dude the proper way to keep it alive is to just use it and let em figure it out. call out a Romanian when you see im.
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I don't really understand the fact that betting sites let people bet on matches after the matches have ended. Seems kind of stupid.
Edit after reading the whole Thread:
Apparently the betting mostly takes place on illegal sites, so I guess the people betting on these sites are stupid enough to get scammed.
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Canada11355 Posts
On February 09 2015 11:55 Supersamu wrote:
I don't really understand the fact that betting sites let people bet on matches after the matches have ended. Seems kind of stupid.
what
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On February 09 2015 12:01 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 11:55 Supersamu wrote:
I don't really understand the fact that betting sites let people bet on matches after the matches have ended. Seems kind of stupid. what
As said, people in the lobby of the games watched the games live and when the game ends before the stream shows the game, apparently the betting on this game is still open, although it already started IRL.
One other thing: I still don't understand what the "official" source on all this information is and who decided to let the public know and what obligations Kane and Olimoley had.
If this betting is illegal, does this mean the Police is involved in this?
Assuming Players were being told to fix matches, could they go to Jail?
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On February 09 2015 12:07 Supersamu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 12:01 Fecalfeast wrote:On February 09 2015 11:55 Supersamu wrote:
I don't really understand the fact that betting sites let people bet on matches after the matches have ended. Seems kind of stupid. what As said, people in the lobby of the games watched the games live and when the game ends before the stream shows the game, apparently the betting on this game is still open, although it already started IRL. One other thing: I still don't understand what the "official" source on all this information is and who decided to let the public know and what obligations Kane and Olimoley had. If this betting is illegal, does this mean the Police is involved in this? Assuming Players were being told to fix matches, could they go to Jail?
Its illegal in Korea, which is where the corrupt sponsors are from.
The police would probably be involved in a different manner; issuing subpoenas and escorting witnesses.
Prison time can be served if anyone is found guilty, but you would need perpetrators to be in Korea. If the gambling site involved is physically in, say, Switzerland, and the owners live elsewhere, then they can never be prosecuted. Unless they go to Korea, which I highly doubt. Others might be prosecuted though, like the corrupt sponsors, if they get caught. They are probably looking for a flight to a country that doesn't extradite.
Even if they do get caught in Korea, I would assume its a blue collar crime there. They will probably spend 2-5 years easy living in a minimum security penitentiary.
What happened to savior? How much prison time did he get? If any at all?
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Well this is interesting after the San/Dark/Pinnacle debacle and Innovation/Super Game 1.
There is something going on, and I was worried this would get swept under the table. I'm glad people more credible than me are starting to speak up about it.
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On February 09 2015 13:00 Swoopae wrote:
Well this is interesting after the San/Dark/Pinnacle debacle and Innovation/Super Game 1.
There is something going on, and I was worried this would get swept under the table. I'm glad people more credible than me are starting to speak up about it.
I was wondering when you would participate with us again. Welcome back 
What is your take on all of this? Do you think there is a connection between this and the cancelled bets?
Its entirely possible there is a connection, but I am inclined to believe they are separate events. What are your thoughts?
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This seems like a situation where its nearly impossible to catch the culprits. Preventing this from happening again might be possible though. Its interesting that there are enough people betting on these small tournaments for this to work.
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On February 09 2015 11:55 Supersamu wrote:
I don't really understand the fact that betting sites let people bet on matches after the matches have ended. Seems kind of stupid.
Edit after reading the whole Thread:
Apparently the betting mostly takes place on illegal sites, so I guess the people betting on these sites are stupid enough to get scammed.
Never once was betting strictly after a game ever talked about. We are talking about a stream delay that would give the betters 5-10 minutes of knowledge prior to the actual stream start. Could a game end in that time? Yea sure but the way you are wording it makes it seem like once a game ends that betting opens or something.
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@Jett I have no idea. They seem to be seperate events but it would not surprise me at all if players in Proleague (two in particular, and if you look at my post/twitter history you know which two I suspect they are) are involved in illegal betting/match fixing.
I always lurk at TeamLiquid for what it's worth, I just don't post that often here.
With the proleague games in question there was no delay, and the suspicions were raised due to absurd amounts of money coming in on bets that would yield an incredibly negative expectation over time. This leads me to believe if something shady was going on, which is objectively likely, it was a player throwing a game deliberately.
The evidence for this more recent betting scandal seems to be even more overwhelming, in this case there would not need to be player involvement, but it would help. A 5-10 minute delay would make betting on a match, even one that isn't rigged, hugely profitable
For what it's worth I know of people (not in Korea) who have bookmakers who will just accept a major sportsbook's price on a game for larger limits, so we don't actually know how much money can be bet on a match but it's more than simply what can be bet on Pinnacle or any other sportsbook that offers esports. I have friends who regularly wager four figures on games (they're mostly high stakes poker players wagering with each other, and have nothing to do with the esports scene, mostly just degens with too much money). I do my own betting at Pinnacle as I rarely bet more than a few hundred a game and their limits allow that.
All I want is to see match fixing stamped out in Korea as I both want to be on a level playing field when making bets and I want to be able to enjoy the matches as a fan without having to worry about players throwing matches. Certainly, betting shouldn't be offered on matches that are on a delayed stream rather than a live one.
I was willing to let the thread die after all of the negative reactions my posts got last time and simply chalk it up to 'I hope Kepsa/Blizzard does something and i'm never betting on players x and y again because they're probably match fixing', hopefully now that people who are considered credible in the esports community are raising the questions rather than a 'random' like me we'll actually get some answers and the modern saviors who are ruining esports will be banished from this community as they thoroughly deserve to be. Lifetime bans are in order for anyone who has thrown any game for any sort of compensation and if money was changing hands to rig contests with prizemoney I hope the police in Korea (and anywhere else match fixing has occurred) take it seriously and prosecutes anyone proven to be involved in match fixing syndicates.
All I ask of the SC2 community is don't let this just 'go away' without a proper investigation. If it turns out that it was just one guy, great. Ban him and move on. There's a chance this is more widespread, although I haven't personally seen anything suspicious in Proleague since those two matches a few weeks ago and i've watched every game. This would be more widespread in minor tournaments if it's happening but if any 'star' players are involved then chances are it's happening from time to time in major tournaments as well.
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Totalbiscuit and his team are doing SC2 an amazing service by bringing this to light.
Lots of people knew and chose to remain quiet, TB stood up and said this is something that's wrong and needs to be addressed. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
<3 You're good people Mr. Biscuit. Protecting SC2 players from this is essential given that they are often under 18 years of age or have financial difficulties.
Not to mention these gamblers are literally stealing money, probably from fans of SC2.
Some people out there are corrupting minors and making chumps of SC2 fans.
TB stood up and said NO! Not in my house, not on my watch!
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Totalbiscuit is a boss. I'd love to see one of the players who gets approached to throw a match set up a sting working with the korean police/kespa or whoever's jurisdiction this falls under. Follow the money and you get your match fixers. Get your match fixers outgoing funds from bank account and you get the guilty players. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already tbh.
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and Solar, he publicly said he was approached to throw matches and reported it to Kespa a long time ago.
It's gross that Kespa didn't take this matter to the Korean authorities (unless they did and we haven't heard about it) surely whoever made the offers to Solar, MMA etc has left a digital trail that can be traced by experts backed by legal subpoenas etc
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On February 09 2015 13:30 Grizvok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 11:55 Supersamu wrote:
I don't really understand the fact that betting sites let people bet on matches after the matches have ended. Seems kind of stupid.
Edit after reading the whole Thread:
Apparently the betting mostly takes place on illegal sites, so I guess the people betting on these sites are stupid enough to get scammed. Never once was betting strictly after a game ever talked about. We are talking about a stream delay that would give the betters 5-10 minutes of knowledge prior to the actual stream start. Could a game end in that time? Yea sure but the way you are wording it makes it seem like once a game ends that betting opens or something.
Sorry about the bad wording, english is not my native language.
I meant that the betting doesn't close until 5-10 minutes after game start, not that the betting starts once a game ends.
"I don't really understand the fact that betting sites let people bet on matches after the matches have ended." still is true, but it only happens when the stream delay is longer than the game time. It can theoretically happen, that was my point.
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If they are getting pestered by gamblers this much the cancelled pinnacle matches look even more suspicious. It's not like many of these progamers have a lot of money or a big window in which to make it.
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EPT
