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On January 21 2015 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, such a Swarm Host Nerf without the additional LotV changes is just going to break ZvP completely, imo. And balancing around the new Swarm Hosts seems a bit weird, considering the other New Units in LotV might do exactly that, or at least are supposed to do that.
Of course Swarm Hosts are annoying, but they're necessary... unfortunately.
This. Everyone here is like "woohoo no more long SH games" but what are we going to see from Zergs in ZvP? Anything into mutaswitch into baserace? That's going to get ugly fast.
Lol at the Raven change though. It's a good beginning, but it would be cool if they realized that the Raven is flawed in its very design.
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On January 21 2015 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, such a Swarm Host Nerf without the additional LotV changes is just going to break ZvP completely, imo. And balancing around the new Swarm Hosts seems a bit weird, considering the other New Units in LotV might do exactly that, or at least are supposed to do that.
Of course Swarm Hosts are annoying, but they're necessary... unfortunately.
My guess is:
They don't know HOW exactly the new swarm host breaks the game, so they're looking for ways to get help from the community regarding that.
Then, they buff/nerf stuff accordingly to have an even playing field for new units.
On January 21 2015 18:53 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, such a Swarm Host Nerf without the additional LotV changes is just going to break ZvP completely, imo. And balancing around the new Swarm Hosts seems a bit weird, considering the other New Units in LotV might do exactly that, or at least are supposed to do that.
Of course Swarm Hosts are annoying, but they're necessary... unfortunately. This. Everyone here is like "woohoo no more long SH games" but what are we going to see from Zergs in ZvP? .
Uhh... Thats the point of this balance test. You realize that?
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How am I supposed to defend my bases against flying Locusts now? Especially when playing Mech.
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On January 21 2015 18:56 BurningRanger wrote:
How am I supposed to defend my bases against flying Locusts now? Especially when playing Mech.
With stuff. Like everyone else. When meching you have so many spare minerals, just place a few turrets like you'd do anyway.
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On January 21 2015 18:57 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 18:56 BurningRanger wrote:
How am I supposed to defend my bases against flying Locusts now? Especially when playing Mech. With stuff. Like everyone else. When meching you have so many spare minerals, just place a few turrets like you'd do anyway.
You're talking about turret rings I assume, like I'd do against large Muta flocks? You know Locusts are free units. They can fight till they die without any resources lost. Imagine Mutas could do that. Turret rings won't last too long. I'd have to rebuild them over and over until eventually I'm out of minerals... and then?
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Austria24420 Posts
I wonder if flying locusts could actually be a buff vs colossus/templar armies. They don't usually have much AA and locusts wont get killed by colossi anymore -> could jump right at templar
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On January 21 2015 19:01 BurningRanger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 18:57 KeksX wrote:On January 21 2015 18:56 BurningRanger wrote:
How am I supposed to defend my bases against flying Locusts now? Especially when playing Mech. With stuff. Like everyone else. When meching you have so many spare minerals, just place a few turrets like you'd do anyway. You're talking about turret rings I assume, like I'd do against large Muta flocks? You know Locusts are free units. They can fight till they die without any resources lost. Imagine Mutas could do that. Turret rings won't last too long. I'd have to rebuild them over and over until eventually I'm out of minerals... and then?
But the locust has to land first. Also a sh spawns only 2 locust and is pretty much dead weight for half a minute
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On January 21 2015 19:01 BurningRanger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 18:57 KeksX wrote:On January 21 2015 18:56 BurningRanger wrote:
How am I supposed to defend my bases against flying Locusts now? Especially when playing Mech. With stuff. Like everyone else. When meching you have so many spare minerals, just place a few turrets like you'd do anyway. You're talking about turret rings I assume, like I'd do against large Muta flocks? You know Locusts are free units. They can fight till they die without any resources lost. Imagine Mutas could do that. Turret rings won't last too long. I'd have to rebuild them over and over until eventually I'm out of minerals... and then?
Locusts have a kinda long animation to approach/land, and they also take quite a bit of space away. So I'm sure that a turret ring will do just fine against a reasonable amount of swarmhosts, and if they have a shitton of them so that you lose a base instantly, just kill their other bases as their main army will be incredibly small.
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Late game ZvP will be very fun with 1/3 of the actual locusts 
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On January 21 2015 18:53 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, such a Swarm Host Nerf without the additional LotV changes is just going to break ZvP completely, imo. And balancing around the new Swarm Hosts seems a bit weird, considering the other New Units in LotV might do exactly that, or at least are supposed to do that.
Of course Swarm Hosts are annoying, but they're necessary... unfortunately. My guess is: They don't know HOW exactly the new swarm host breaks the game, so they're looking for ways to get help from the community regarding that. Then, they buff/nerf stuff accordingly to have an even playing field for new units.
Yeah, but does it make much sense to change all the HotS-Units to balance out the Swarm Host Nerf, while LotV is around the corner with completely new units and answers to this Swarm Host Nerf?
I mean, it's cool from a spectators point of view - but the players have to adapt to these huge changes (and if the game's supposed to be balanced around the Swarm Host Nerf, the changes are going to be huge, no doubt about that) and as soon as LotV hits, most of these changes have to be reverted, because the new units in LotV will overlap with the required adjustments they're doing now to balance the New Swarm Host.
The community doesn't really know a lot about these new units. One Protoss unit hasn't even been shown yet (apparently).
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Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now...
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On January 21 2015 19:24 Everlong wrote:
Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now...
And every Zerg is dead if he doesn't go for some kind of mid-game push. Great.
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On January 21 2015 19:24 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 19:24 Everlong wrote:
Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now... And every Zerg is dead if he doesn't go for some kind of mid-game push. Great.
They could buff something else, or add new unit, whatever.. Just remove the fucking thing from the game already.
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On January 21 2015 19:26 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 19:24 Swisslink wrote:On January 21 2015 19:24 Everlong wrote:
Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now... And every Zerg is dead if he doesn't go for some kind of mid-game push. Great. They could buff something else, or add new unit, whatever.. Just remove the fucking thing from the game already.
Care to make some suggestiones?
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On January 21 2015 19:24 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 19:24 Everlong wrote:
Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now... And every Zerg is dead if he doesn't go for some kind of mid-game push. Great.
welcome to terran in wol against z and p
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On January 21 2015 19:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I wonder if flying locusts could actually be a buff vs colossus/templar armies. They don't usually have much AA and locusts wont get killed by colossi anymore -> could jump right at templar
A brief perusal of the LotV tournament TB arranged should suggest otherwise. SH really don't have the power to zone out the protoss deathball anymore in LotV. Locusts are still slow and have short range. Implementing this change absent the complimentary changes of LotV is just going to break the game. Zerg will have no realistic way of dealing with late game mech and protoss armies.
I don't care too much if this happens tbh, as I see it the game is just coasting until LotV anyway, where the real game actually begins, the game we should have had in 2010.
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On January 21 2015 19:29 Homunculus159 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 19:26 Everlong wrote:On January 21 2015 19:24 Swisslink wrote:On January 21 2015 19:24 Everlong wrote:
Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now... And every Zerg is dead if he doesn't go for some kind of mid-game push. Great. They could buff something else, or add new unit, whatever.. Just remove the fucking thing from the game already. Care to make some suggestiones?
I'm not a game developer, nor am I a game designer. But I can tell when something is clearly wrong. I'm pretty sure a team of people which can come up with a unit like Swarm Host is able to come up with some ideas to tweak some Zerg units to make up for the removal of it.
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On January 21 2015 19:33 Noonius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 19:24 Swisslink wrote:On January 21 2015 19:24 Everlong wrote:
Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now... And every Zerg is dead if he doesn't go for some kind of mid-game push. Great. welcome to terran in wol against z and p
Oh, the good old "Terran was in this situation before - now it's your turn!"?
Just because the same thing happened before doesn't justify another imbalance.
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I'm all for them nerfing/changing the swarmhost and nerfing the raven some, there's just a few huge issues with this:
Terran has no late game unit except the raven, so nerfing the raven is basically nerfing Terran late game. That is a really huge nerf, more than people realize.
Also, if raven PDD is nerfed tempests must ALSO be severely nerfed because right now if you go mech vs Protoss they are able to mass 20+ tempests with templar and the only counter to it is...to mass ravens for PDD. And a 20 sec PDD is going to be autoloss because it takes forever to accumulate raven energy versus the opponent's "infinite energy" shooting tempests.
So yes, swarmhost nerf please, raven nerf ONLY if blizzard is willing to nerf Tempests with them.
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On January 21 2015 19:35 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 19:29 Homunculus159 wrote:On January 21 2015 19:26 Everlong wrote:On January 21 2015 19:24 Swisslink wrote:On January 21 2015 19:24 Everlong wrote:
Acknowledge own mistakes, remove SH from the game, problem solved, everyone is happy now... And every Zerg is dead if he doesn't go for some kind of mid-game push. Great. They could buff something else, or add new unit, whatever.. Just remove the fucking thing from the game already. Care to make some suggestiones? I'm not a game developer, nor am I a game designer. But I can tell when something is clearly wrong. I'm pretty sure a team of people which can come up with a unit like Swarm Host is able to come up with some ideas to tweak some Zerg units to make up for the removal of it.
They're doing that. It's called legacy of the void.
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EPT
