• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:21
CET 13:21
KST 21:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion What happened to TvZ on Retro? Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2227 users

Jan 20 Balance Test Map Update - Swarm Host & Raven

Forum Index > SC2 General
504 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 24 25 26 Next All
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14461 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-21 02:47:28
January 20 2015 21:38 GMT
#1
[image loading]



Blizzard just release a Balance test map update.

We’d like to give everyone an update on the current Balance Test Map and also address some of the recent Swarm Host stalemate situations going on.

On the Balance Test Map front:

There weren’t as many top level tournament games going on recently, so we’re unsure if what we were seeing towards the end of last year is still the case.
We’re getting mixed feedback on various issues these days on the pro side. For example, in TvZ we still receive a lot of pro feedback on how Zerg has a slight disadvantage. However, we’re also now hearing from others that Zerg players have adapted better to mid-game timing attacks and now have a slight advantage in the match-up.
We’re holding off on the proposed balance change for now until we can more clearly see what has changed in terms of match-up balance.

Rather than focusing on what occurred near the end of Season 3, please help us in focusing on what’s going on right now in the brand new season. We’ll continue to monitor the need for this change and provide further updates in the future.


Regarding the Swarm Host, we’d like to start testing two changes in a new Balance Test Map:

All Swarm Host changes from Void carried over to HotS.

Redesigned from a siege-tool to a mobile harass tool.
Spawn Locust can now be used while unburrowed, but must be manually activated.
Locusts have been buffed and can be upgraded at Tier 3 to fly over terrain. They must then swoop down to the ground to engage.


Raven Point Defense Drones duration decreasing to 20 seconds


Both of these changes are pretty significant, and while we typically avoid major design changes in balance updates, we feel it’s appropriate in this particular situation. Not only because we’d like to address the turtling scenarios, but also because we’ve already spent a lot of time on these changes internally.

However, we do have a few major concerns.

What happens to vs. Mech?

Internally we are seeing that it’s a nerf and a buff. Nerf for obvious reasons, and buff because Locusts swooping down to a Siege Tank line can be deadly if executed at just the right time. But we would need to know more for certain through public balance testing to see the exact strengths/weaknesses of this change in this scenario.

What happens to mass Protoss air supported by High Templar?

This is a bigger concern for us due to Locusts’ ability to zone out High Templar being greatly diminished. However, there will be a buff on the harassment front so we’re not sure where this will end up. Again, this is something that will need to be heavily tested, and we may need to make additional changes depending on how this turns out.

What happens to the highest pro level?

This issue isn’t as critical of an issue at the highest levels of play, especially the games going on in Korea. Korea has more major tournaments this year, and these changes could negatively/unnecessarily affect that skill level. This will be another area that we’ll need to watch out for.


We feel we’ll need to dedicate a longer period of time to test out major changes like this before potentially pushing them out to the live game. More than ever, getting a large amount of external testing and feedback will be critical to our decision making process. We’ll do our best to contact pro-players around the world to get their feedback, but we ask that everyone put an especially high emphasis in testing out the changes. Without the help of our community and the pros, it won’t be possible to push out a change of this magnitude.

Thank you.


Source : http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15699096472


Blizzard has also released specific details about the new swarm hosts here

Swarm Host
  • 100/200/40
  • 4 Supply
  • No longer start with Burrow
  • Enduring Locusts upgrade is no longer available.
  • Evolve Flying Locust upgrade has been added.


Spawn Locust
    Cooldown 60 seconds
    Can be cast while burrowed or unburrowed.
    Must be manually cast. No longer has auto-cast.
    Spawns 2 Locusts. Locusts have a 30 second timed life.


Locust
  • 12 damage
  • 0.6 weapon speed
  • 30 second duration


Evolve Flying Locust
  • Requires Lair
  • 200/200/160
  • Allows Locusts spawned by Swarm Hosts to fly. Flying Locusts can use Swoop to land and attack.
  • Swoop: Orders the Locust to land at the targeted location, allowing it to attack.



Poll: What do you think about SH change ?

I like it (584)
 
74%

I don't like it (186)
 
23%

I don't care (24)
 
3%

794 total votes

Your vote: What do you think about SH change ?

(Vote): I like it
(Vote): I don't like it
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: What do you think about Raven change ?

I like it (502)
 
71%

I don't like it (173)
 
24%

I don't care (36)
 
5%

711 total votes

Your vote: What do you think about Raven change ?

(Vote): I like it
(Vote): I don't like it
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: Is Blizzard saving esport ?

I like it (504)
 
74%

I don't like it (114)
 
17%

I don't care (66)
 
10%

684 total votes

Your vote: Is Blizzard saving esport ?

(Vote): I like it
(Vote): I don't like it
(Vote): I don't care

Facebook Twitter Reddit
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-20 21:41:22
January 20 2015 21:40 GMT
#2
Awesome! :D

Source
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15699096472?page=1#1
IeZaeL
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy991 Posts
January 20 2015 21:41 GMT
#3
Im impressed.
Author of Coda and Eastwatch.
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
January 20 2015 21:42 GMT
#4
David Kim dropping a Megaton here. Pretty reassuring as they realize that swarm host is in such dire straits design wise that waiting for an expansion is too long.
Pokemon Master
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-20 21:43:33
January 20 2015 21:42 GMT
#5
Wow that's crazy. This is the first time blizzard has proposed a change to a core game mechanic after release.

Even if this doesn't go through, massive thumbs up to willingness to make such a change.
Faefae
Profile Joined June 2014
2203 Posts
January 20 2015 21:45 GMT
#6
Aeromi is so fucking fast
ForGG. 29/11/2014
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
January 20 2015 21:46 GMT
#7
Hell, it's about time.

Good for Blizzard for finally being willing to consider big changes in balance patches.
vibeo gane,
feebas
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland268 Posts
January 20 2015 21:47 GMT
#8
may it come to pass
paska peli
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16008 Posts
January 20 2015 21:48 GMT
#9
i like this changes but when ravens and swarmhosts are getting nerfed, tempests have to be nerfed too, so that zerg have a chance in lategame with BL/infestor.
Also mech in tvp would become completely unplayable without a tempest nerf.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
January 20 2015 21:48 GMT
#10
This is interesting...

Also fuck PDD's
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
January 20 2015 21:48 GMT
#11
Blizzard, may your wives be fertile, your children be above-average, and your car start on the first turn of the key, even in the dead of winter!
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
ivancype
Profile Joined December 2012
Brazil485 Posts
January 20 2015 21:48 GMT
#12
Thanks to Lillekanin?
The other race is OP
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
January 20 2015 21:49 GMT
#13
Holy shit thank fucking christ! Let's hope this works better.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
nkr
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden5451 Posts
January 20 2015 21:49 GMT
#14
What is zerg going to do late game vs protoss?
ESPORTS ILLUMINATI
Alchemik
Profile Joined March 2014
Poland7124 Posts
January 20 2015 21:49 GMT
#15
I kinda love David Kim now, but I'm afraid of what this can do to Zerg and make it play on a timer
SuperHofmann
Profile Joined September 2013
Italy1741 Posts
January 20 2015 21:49 GMT
#16
Can't really understand why they are buffing the units that is ruining the game
Vasacast always in my <3
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2655 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-20 21:50:20
January 20 2015 21:49 GMT
#17
Well RIP my 1 base marine/raven/tank vs protoss that I copied from Journey

I hope they do something for mech tho, as a player that likes mech (playing and watching it) I like these changes a lot, but Raven was more than turtle unit, specially in TvT and sometimes in TvP (RIP Gumihos raven/tank pushes he does from time to time) PDD was a good unit in the early/mid game, and while I like these changes a lot they give something back (nothing big a bit of faster movement speed in the raven or something like that so you can get a few ravens with your army easily or something like that)

Its important to remember that while these units were bad design players made them for a reason

On January 21 2015 06:48 Charoisaur wrote:
i like this changes but when ravens and swarmhosts are getting nerfed, tempests have to be nerfed too, so that zerg have a chance in lategame with BL/infestor.
Also mech in tvp would become completely unplayable without a tempest nerf.


The trifecta of awful units, yeah they need to do something about tempest too
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
January 20 2015 21:49 GMT
#18
Blizzard finally getting a wake up call ?
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
January 20 2015 21:49 GMT
#19
On January 21 2015 06:48 Charoisaur wrote:
i like this changes but when ravens and swarmhosts are getting nerfed, tempests have to be nerfed too, so that zerg have a chance in lategame with BL/infestor.
Also mech in tvp would become completely unplayable without a tempest nerf.

I don't think you should expect all of the changes in LotV to be conducted now. You might have to wait for those changes.
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2655 Posts
January 20 2015 21:50 GMT
#20
On January 21 2015 06:49 Pontius Pirate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2015 06:48 Charoisaur wrote:
i like this changes but when ravens and swarmhosts are getting nerfed, tempests have to be nerfed too, so that zerg have a chance in lategame with BL/infestor.
Also mech in tvp would become completely unplayable without a tempest nerf.

I don't think you should expect all of the changes in LotV to be conducted now. You might have to wait for those changes.


For those changes that happen to be just like these one (if they do go through)
1 2 3 4 5 24 25 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
12:00
2025 Monthly #3: Day 4
Cure vs Reynor
Classic vs herO
RotterdaM468
IndyStarCraft 156
IntoTheiNu 60
SteadfastSC37
Liquipedia
RSL Revival
10:00
Group C
SHIN vs ByuNLIVE!
Crank 1190
Tasteless672
ComeBackTV 644
Rex111
3DClanTV 54
Liquipedia
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #98
CranKy Ducklings45
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1190
Tasteless 672
RotterdaM 468
Reynor 179
IndyStarCraft 156
Rex 111
SteadfastSC 37
Railgan 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34284
Rain 3773
Hyuk 1304
Horang2 1294
firebathero 1239
Jaedong 831
Shuttle 513
Mini 484
Stork 349
BeSt 239
[ Show more ]
Last 214
EffOrt 201
PianO 166
Hm[arnc] 154
Leta 152
Shine 149
Pusan 127
Mong 82
Hyun 79
Barracks 79
Shinee 70
sorry 64
ggaemo 45
JYJ43
JulyZerg 29
soO 25
Bale 18
Movie 17
Noble 12
HiyA 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Dota 2
Gorgc4700
singsing2317
XaKoH 437
XcaliburYe250
Dendi209
Counter-Strike
fl0m3513
zeus456
Other Games
FrodaN4317
B2W.Neo1484
KnowMe194
Fuzer 172
Lowko121
Mew2King65
MindelVK15
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8113
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1698
Other Games
gamesdonequick560
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH141
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1061
League of Legends
• Stunt1248
Upcoming Events
IPSL
4h 39m
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
OSC
6h 39m
BSL 21
7h 39m
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 39m
RSL Revival
21h 39m
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
23h 39m
WardiTV Korean Royale
23h 39m
BSL 21
1d 7h
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
1d 7h
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 10h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 23h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.