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On January 14 2015 23:05 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 22:44 DJHelium wrote:Wolf is now trying to guilt people into subscribing: It's such a stupid move by Gom. Any new potential viewers they have will be so turned off by the potato quality that in the long run they for sure lose money by doing this. It's like they know they're going bankrupt and just want as much money as possible while they can  Man you gotta face the reality, there aren't that many new viewers coming into SC2. Has nothing to do with guilt tripping, but if you truly love Starcraft it should not be a problem for you to pay for the most hardcore SC2 content out there. You also gotta admit that there comes a time for corporations to make a decision: Changing the monetization theme, or downsizing/closing down. I'm not saying that I think GSL is poor a-f, but as far as I know they've been always loyal to SC2 and even used other games (WoT) to support it. The fact that the community is so hostile to them now is quite shocking to me. Also people making the point about legitimacy: Traditional sports almost always have exclusive deals for pay-to-view content, especially in soccer. Only the biggest events are free(just like in SC2!) most of the time. EDIT: Missed half a sentence there in the second paragraph.
Really? I know NBA is on local channels until you hit the playoffs, then it goes exclusive (just cable based), and I know basketball isn't the only sport that does so.
That's way off topic though. I'm not someone who watched GSL everyday, but I would subscribe to watch their vods during study breaks and late at night (bebefore 3 because I have a big boy schedule).
It doesn't matter how poor I am, how I work 2 jobs, send money to my family, pay for university and depend on financial aid to make ends meet. I work my ass off to get what I WANT. Fact of the matter is, GSL, out of everyone the eSports world has to offer, has allowed themselves to fall to be subpar. Their shows are no longer entertaining enough ffor me to prioritize them during my off time, but during the rare times where I'm up at 3am (I got off my second job at 2:30am this morning and got home at 3), I turned on the TV and laughed at the quality before changing the channel to a different stream while I fell asleep.
You talk about $15 being nothing, but my $15 bucks and plenty more are going to people who are earning it. You're talking about business, this is just that. People aren't flocking to SC2 streams, guess what, LoL shows are more entertaining these days. I went to Korea, watched OSL and GSTL, said hi to Trap after he won his match, shook hands with Genius after the Azubu match. I was a constant subscriber to Gom, but the decisions they have made since then til now have led them to suffer, and that's not my fault.
And it is guilt tripping when you try to force poor kids to throw money away on failing organizations in a ditch effort to bring them back (not saying GOM is dead, I hope they come back with a bang and are successful, I mean they are failing right now with a subpar program). Kids and adults alike will dedicate towards eSports what they can and what they see fit... Having an awesome program is what l bring the viewers back, not an uncalled for "its only $15, don't be a bitch" sort of attitude.
Edit: Damn that was an unnecessarily long tangent... sorry, I arrived early to a meeting and just went off >_<
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Boo hoo, free to watch quality isn't high enough. Unless you're in high school or jobless you should have no excuse supporting the things you love.
People bitching about this are the people who have never and will never subscribe in the first place. Free to watch is supposed to attract new viewers to join the scene not cater to the people who will never earn them the $$ to stay alive in the first place. Be a man and pay up instead of whining about having to give $15 to a company has given you free content (and still does) for YEARS.
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On January 15 2015 05:37 Figgy wrote:
Boo hoo, free to watch quality isn't high enough. Unless you're in high school or jobless you should have no excuse supporting the things you love.
People bitching about this are the people who have never and will never subscribe in the first place. Free to watch is supposed to attract new viewers to join the scene not cater to the people who will never earn them the $$ to stay alive in the first place. Be a man and pay up instead of whining about having to give $15 to a company has given you free content (and still does) for YEARS.
I subscribed to GomTV throughout 2011 - 2012(?). Now I'm in the middle of an MLitt with previous student loans to pay. I'd be more inclined to shell out $24* if GOM made the effort to offer 'Medium'. As it is, that's not an expense I can justify for the glory of the SC2 scene! Especially when I suspect that I'd be paying for something I really wouldn't get, if memory serves...
*Because that's how much Twitch is telling me I need to pay for 'Source'.
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On January 15 2015 05:37 Figgy wrote:
Boo hoo, free to watch quality isn't high enough. Unless you're in high school or jobless you should have no excuse supporting the things you love.
People bitching about this are the people who have never and will never subscribe in the first place. Free to watch is supposed to attract new viewers to join the scene not cater to the people who will never earn them the $$ to stay alive in the first place. Be a man and pay up instead of whining about having to give $15 to a company has given you free content (and still does) for YEARS.
How the hell do they attract new viewers with probably the worst stream quality out of all the SC2 tournaments? Plus there's BW being streamed at higher quality and the game was supposed to be replaced by SC2 (good thing it's still alive :3). -.-"
Even if someone new would want to watch SC2 what do you think they'd do watch crap videos on GOM or go watch the other SC2 tournaments that offer a higher quality stream? >.>
Oh, and one more thing, it might be obvious to someone that knows the game what those things on the screen are, units and numbers, but no new person is going to sit in front of a low quality stream trying to figure out what's going on, they'll either just go to another SC2 tournament or go play/watch another game that's on par stream wise with the year we're living in. -.-"
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what you have found is for events and not the seasons.
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Worse is the korean stream is 1080 for free. You can literally mute it and play the crappy "free english" in the background if you really want to listen the commentators talking about anything but starcraft.
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Unfortunately it's a real pain to watch GSL right now...
If it was 4,99 like Proleague I would immediately sub, but 13,99 is way too much for that service IMO.
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On January 15 2015 05:37 Figgy wrote:
Boo hoo, free to watch quality isn't high enough. Unless you're in high school or jobless you should have no excuse supporting the things you love.
People bitching about this are the people who have never and will never subscribe in the first place. Free to watch is supposed to attract new viewers to join the scene not cater to the people who will never earn them the $$ to stay alive in the first place. Be a man and pay up instead of whining about having to give $15 to a company has given you free content (and still does) for YEARS.
Ironically hilarious this post is. Ignorance is bliss.
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On January 15 2015 06:38 onlyRox wrote:
Unfortunately it's a real pain to watch GSL right now...
If it was 4,99 like Proleague I would immediately sub, but 13,99 is way too much for that service IMO.
Correct me if I'm wrong but GSL is 15 dollars for 3 months and Proleague is 5 dollars per month so they come to around the same price.
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Firstly I would like to say, I love Blizzard all the way from Diablo ii, and sc2 is no exception. I was brought up playing and supporting video games and I'm so glad to see it's turned into an industry all of it's own. I very rarely play Sc2 anymore but I still watch religiously, and GSL was certainly a highlight of that. I mainly watch pro league, GSL, WCS EU as that's where i'm from, IEM's and community stuff like Basetrade and Dragon's output.
E-sports is now in a state where it can make money from adverts, sponsors and even backing from big satellite stations such as ESPN showing the last Blizzcon. This is a fact, many other games and organisations make a lot of money without asking for money from the supporters, many of whom are young and do not have that kind of income. Wolf mentioned when he was a student, well that is surely 18+ in America or wherever he went to study. I ask you.... How many competitors in GSL are sub 18???? LOT's, do they or their peers have this kind of money to spend? I think not.
As much as I love Sc2 and want to see it thrive, I do worry because many other games are going in a FTP direction where kids can join at a young age ans then start donating to the financial model when they are older and have the cash. I talk about buying in game add'ons or cosmetics. Such as LoL etc.
I really think GOM should think about how they are going to attract young members to our community, they have a very important role to play and Blizzard should help guide them as to how to do this. As I'm sure they where trying to when stating the requirements for holding/broadcasting WCS point accredited tournaments. Somewhere communication has broken down, people have gotten greedy and who suffers? Fan's of what some say is a dying game, certainly the young fan's who we need to attract to 'OUR' game in order for it to continue to thrive.
Sc2 is not dead, but please GOM it doesn't need another kicking...
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Totally unimpressed by all of the dudes out there who just can't wait to show everyone how much more cool and less whiney they are as they dispense with the 'tough love' on an internet forum. When a brand you've been loyal to and supported through your free watching (if this makes you laugh, you're intensely ignorant, just fyi) decides to take a dump on you, you have every right to be upset about it. This is horseshit. Other games/esports aren't like this. People point out how this relates to our game struggling, that we still have to deal with archaic, impotent ideas like this. How the high quality is free for people watching the korean stream. Or how their sub model simultaneously changed to become the worst value ever. And.. you decide to just stop in and 'tell it like it is', like some internet forum cowboy who is in a perpetual state of riding off into the sunset without a need for a girlfriend. Real cool. Now go away.
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ok, so i resolved my proleague sub issue...
sc2starleague was the channel i subbed for (the individual league), and sc2proleague is still showing proleague.
THEY HAVE 2 DIFFERENT CHANNELS WITH 2 DIFFERENT FEES
this messed me up so much i will probably not ever buy a sub for these big companies. why do they just think that its ok to be so unorganized?
i'm not paying $10 a month to fall asleep watching something live when it will be up on youtube the next day FOR FREE IN 1080P
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Not everyone has disposable income. $14 is a weeks worth of food. Can't really afford to not eat. It's funny how people say things like "anyone can spare $14!" Yeah, not in the real world. Some people are poor. Like, actually poor. Not "so poor I order off the dollar menu at McDonalds."
The low quality stream is alright, you can still tell what's going on, which is good enough for me. But to say things like "anyone can afford the subscription" is just completely false.
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On January 15 2015 06:56 Lumi wrote:
Totally unimpressed by all of the dudes out there who just can't wait to show everyone how much more cool and less whiney they are as they dispense with the 'tough love' on an internet forum. When a brand you've been loyal to and supported through your free watching (if this makes you laugh, you're intensely ignorant, just fyi) decides to take a dump on you, you have every right to be upset about it. This is horseshit. Other games/esports aren't like this. People point out how this relates to our game struggling, that we still have to deal with archaic, impotent ideas like this. How the high quality is free for people watching the korean stream. Or how their sub model simultaneously changed to become the worst value ever. And.. you decide to just stop in and 'tell it like it is', like some internet forum cowboy who is in a perpetual state of riding off into the sunset without a need for a girlfriend. Real cool. Now go away.
Just because you happen to have said more stuff on a forum than someone else in the past doesn't make your points more valid. You seem to try to want to make a personal thing out of my previous post, quite sad. Most of what you say is nonsense imo and I do sub to a few channels, but when I was a young kid wouldn't have been able to and wouldn't have wanted to be watching some of the best quality games in the world in a lesser quality. I sub now because I can, I would have not been able to when I was a young kid, same as some of those pro's we watch now, I wouldn't want good talent avoiding Sc2 in the future because some companies have a backward looking business model, just my 2 cents, far too long since we have had regular foreigners doing 'really' well in Sc2. Let's encourage more. This is my point.
And don't worry about the gf issue, she has a younger sister, if u pay my GSL sub I'll introduce you ;P
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On January 15 2015 05:37 Figgy wrote:
Boo hoo, free to watch quality isn't high enough. Unless you're in high school or jobless you should have no excuse supporting the things you love.
The things I love?
Ok just going to sub to things I truly love and watch a lot. (probably more than I should)
Dota
Sing_Sing
BTS
Blitzdota
Hearthstone
Trump
Amaz
Kripp
Forsen
WoW
Sodapoppin
(RIP Reckful T_T)
Cdew
Mitchjones(actually subbed here)
SC2:
Proleague (subbed here too)
Starleague
(actually not loving GSL now because Leenock doesn't play there but rather in SSL and SPL but let's say he qualifies)
Speedrunners
Demoon9
$83/month
Oh well, this didn't become expensive at all. I'm currently studying at a university so not employed either. And I filtered my streams a lot too, I just choose the ones I watch a ton.
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On January 15 2015 07:10 Ve5pa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2015 06:56 Lumi wrote:
Totally unimpressed by all of the dudes out there who just can't wait to show everyone how much more cool and less whiney they are as they dispense with the 'tough love' on an internet forum. When a brand you've been loyal to and supported through your free watching (if this makes you laugh, you're intensely ignorant, just fyi) decides to take a dump on you, you have every right to be upset about it. This is horseshit. Other games/esports aren't like this. People point out how this relates to our game struggling, that we still have to deal with archaic, impotent ideas like this. How the high quality is free for people watching the korean stream. Or how their sub model simultaneously changed to become the worst value ever. And.. you decide to just stop in and 'tell it like it is', like some internet forum cowboy who is in a perpetual state of riding off into the sunset without a need for a girlfriend. Real cool. Now go away. Just because you happen to have said more stuff on a forum than someone else in the past doesn't make your points more valid. You seem to try to want to make a personal thing out of my previous post, quite sad. Most of what you say is nonsense imo and I do sub to a few channels, but when I was a young kid wouldn't have been able to and wouldn't have wanted to be watching some of the best quality games in the world in a lesser quality. I sub now because I can, I would have not been able to when I was a young kid, same as some of those pro's we watch now, I wouldn't want good talent avoiding Sc2 in the future because some companies have a backward looking business model, just my 2 cents, far too long since we have had regular foreigners doing 'really' well in Sc2. Let's encourage more. This is my point
I literally have no idea who you are or what you have /ever/ said on this forum before now. And I have not been reading comments in the most recent pages. Also, the first sentence you issued is based on the purest non-sense. Really confused that you actually find that psychologically plausible at large, let alone in this instance where I have nothing to do with whatever you previously said. The second sentence pushes the envelope by embarrassing you further. The irony of it is a beautiful thing, though. As for you saying that most of what I said is "non sense" - This statement is useless to me and everyone else. You haven't clarified anything that you actually disagree with, so I can't actually respond to you over anything to do with that. You basically just showed up and said some really stupid things and then moved on to talk about yourself as if you weren't a jerk and anyone cared to listen to you still. Hint: If you wouldn't act that way in real life, it's probably a bad idea to do it online. Maybe it's just the post count talking, though. -flexes and pretends to be the hulk while staring wildly at you-
I'm just kidding. I'd like to welcome you to TL and I do sincerely hope that you'll stick around and join the conversations  I'm harsh, that's me, we don't have to be besties, but welcome.
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Thanks for the edits  It reads much nicer now. I'm far from new, just never really felt the need to comment.
Just to reiterate the one point I wanted to get across in case it was unclear. I think their is a business model that allows companies to succeed when putting on tournaments without relying on subscription money. I think they should adopt this model and be thankful of the subs from older members of the community or those that can better afford it and be thankful that as a company GOM could be proud of showing some of the best games in the world to anyone who wants to see them, whether they can afford it or not. Soon enough those games will inspire the next legends of Sc2 LotV.
Goodnight Mr Banner
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On January 14 2015 22:44 DJHelium wrote:Wolf is now trying to guilt people into subscribing: https://twitter.com/proxywolf/status/555356240566427649It's such a stupid move by Gom. Any new potential viewers they have will be so turned off by the potato quality that in the long run they for sure lose money by doing this. It's like they know they're going bankrupt and just want as much money as possible while they can
what a tool. straight up if you're a poor college kid you shouldn't be wasting your cash on this shit.
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Well. I will just no longer watch it with this quality, probably many more as well. It's just as easy as that. No bad feelings, it is GSL's right to do as they like.
That's just the law of the market. If there's equally good content with much better quality, people will watch this and not GSL.
On a side note, pay models have proven to be a failure in recent times, whether this be apps, content, games or online newspapers. Free and "freemium" models are much more successful in all areas.
Free users only generate small direct income by ads but they generate much more income by additional publicity, more viewers and so on. Also there are small pay-advantages, be this twitch-chat or just visibility stuff (see LoL). I would recommend GSL to watch the big picture in markets. But as I said, it's their freedom to do as they please.
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EPT
