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On December 06 2014 09:57 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 22:48 KrOmander wrote:On December 05 2014 22:24 xGameMamba wrote:
- Tresher
This guy is harasing me for no reason in the german bnet forum.
I once said i don't like mech and it's alot easier than bioplay, and since them he hates me.
He is a Silverleague Mechplayer and just cant understand that Swarmhost Mechanics with 4 Different hotkeygroups is hard to play, even I tryed to explain it to him several times.
Even Players like Petraeus, Kane or Hope aggree with that, and pointed it out on Stream more than just once.
_____________
My Intro with "dont argue about it" is explained very simple.
Terran is to strong atm. BLIZZARD CONFIRMED THIS.
Now its time to search for possible solutions how to fix that problem. Blizzard want to do it over the mappool. I dont like that.
You dont have to agree with me in that point, buf if you're stick to the "mimimi nonono my race isnt overpowered" you're obviously not able to discuss about the topic, and you wont try to make the game better. Mech is less mechanically demanding than bio (at least for me and most others I have talked to about it), but I have to say I found your post quite funny. I especially like the bit where you dismiss mech and then celebrate swarmhost play like it is the epitome of skill in sc2. I guess you lose to mech a lot? It is ok, I still suck at dealing with Protoss doomball armies in late game, but I will not be making whine posts on bnet forums about it. Properly controlling a Swarm Host based game -IS- hard.
and so is properly controlling a lot of other unit comps, what is the point of your post?
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On December 06 2014 22:13 KrOmander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 09:57 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 05 2014 22:48 KrOmander wrote:On December 05 2014 22:24 xGameMamba wrote:
- Tresher
This guy is harasing me for no reason in the german bnet forum.
I once said i don't like mech and it's alot easier than bioplay, and since them he hates me.
He is a Silverleague Mechplayer and just cant understand that Swarmhost Mechanics with 4 Different hotkeygroups is hard to play, even I tryed to explain it to him several times.
Even Players like Petraeus, Kane or Hope aggree with that, and pointed it out on Stream more than just once.
_____________
My Intro with "dont argue about it" is explained very simple.
Terran is to strong atm. BLIZZARD CONFIRMED THIS.
Now its time to search for possible solutions how to fix that problem. Blizzard want to do it over the mappool. I dont like that.
You dont have to agree with me in that point, buf if you're stick to the "mimimi nonono my race isnt overpowered" you're obviously not able to discuss about the topic, and you wont try to make the game better. Mech is less mechanically demanding than bio (at least for me and most others I have talked to about it), but I have to say I found your post quite funny. I especially like the bit where you dismiss mech and then celebrate swarmhost play like it is the epitome of skill in sc2. I guess you lose to mech a lot? It is ok, I still suck at dealing with Protoss doomball armies in late game, but I will not be making whine posts on bnet forums about it. Properly controlling a Swarm Host based game -IS- hard. and so is properly controlling a lot of other unit comps, what is the point of your post?
Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget.
They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball.
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On December 06 2014 22:50 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 22:13 KrOmander wrote:On December 06 2014 09:57 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 05 2014 22:48 KrOmander wrote:On December 05 2014 22:24 xGameMamba wrote:
- Tresher
This guy is harasing me for no reason in the german bnet forum.
I once said i don't like mech and it's alot easier than bioplay, and since them he hates me.
He is a Silverleague Mechplayer and just cant understand that Swarmhost Mechanics with 4 Different hotkeygroups is hard to play, even I tryed to explain it to him several times.
Even Players like Petraeus, Kane or Hope aggree with that, and pointed it out on Stream more than just once.
_____________
My Intro with "dont argue about it" is explained very simple.
Terran is to strong atm. BLIZZARD CONFIRMED THIS.
Now its time to search for possible solutions how to fix that problem. Blizzard want to do it over the mappool. I dont like that.
You dont have to agree with me in that point, buf if you're stick to the "mimimi nonono my race isnt overpowered" you're obviously not able to discuss about the topic, and you wont try to make the game better. Mech is less mechanically demanding than bio (at least for me and most others I have talked to about it), but I have to say I found your post quite funny. I especially like the bit where you dismiss mech and then celebrate swarmhost play like it is the epitome of skill in sc2. I guess you lose to mech a lot? It is ok, I still suck at dealing with Protoss doomball armies in late game, but I will not be making whine posts on bnet forums about it. Properly controlling a Swarm Host based game -IS- hard. and so is properly controlling a lot of other unit comps, what is the point of your post? Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget. They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball.
SH not set and forget?? :o
So THAT'S why I am still in gold.... I knew there was a piece missing!
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On December 06 2014 07:53 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +So i assume the maps will in every matchup be more zerg favoured, okayish for protoss, and bad for terran The maps shouldn't be in zerg's favor, there should just be less one-sided ones. They should just remove maps like Nimbus or Catallena with abmyssal winrates and have more balanced maps like Overgrowth or KSS around. Then they can also do slightly favored ones like Merry Go Round or Frost and everyone should be happy.
I really don't think that will help zerg enough, but we'll see.
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On December 06 2014 22:50 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 22:13 KrOmander wrote:On December 06 2014 09:57 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 05 2014 22:48 KrOmander wrote:On December 05 2014 22:24 xGameMamba wrote:
- Tresher
This guy is harasing me for no reason in the german bnet forum.
I once said i don't like mech and it's alot easier than bioplay, and since them he hates me.
He is a Silverleague Mechplayer and just cant understand that Swarmhost Mechanics with 4 Different hotkeygroups is hard to play, even I tryed to explain it to him several times.
Even Players like Petraeus, Kane or Hope aggree with that, and pointed it out on Stream more than just once.
_____________
My Intro with "dont argue about it" is explained very simple.
Terran is to strong atm. BLIZZARD CONFIRMED THIS.
Now its time to search for possible solutions how to fix that problem. Blizzard want to do it over the mappool. I dont like that.
You dont have to agree with me in that point, buf if you're stick to the "mimimi nonono my race isnt overpowered" you're obviously not able to discuss about the topic, and you wont try to make the game better. Mech is less mechanically demanding than bio (at least for me and most others I have talked to about it), but I have to say I found your post quite funny. I especially like the bit where you dismiss mech and then celebrate swarmhost play like it is the epitome of skill in sc2. I guess you lose to mech a lot? It is ok, I still suck at dealing with Protoss doomball armies in late game, but I will not be making whine posts on bnet forums about it. Properly controlling a Swarm Host based game -IS- hard. and so is properly controlling a lot of other unit comps, what is the point of your post? Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget. They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball.
Good luck winning a game by 1-a-ing a deathball. It won't work above gold.
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Zerg is underpowert so why nerving widow mine vs shilds makes no sense at all.
yes Startale life is world Champion but most of his tactics is all in.
Other think is is one zerg player and all other cant do it waht he do.
Most people say wait with balance patch to legacy of the void.
But it need long time to legacy of the void.
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You remember the time of 2 Code S Terrans?
Blizzard made Hydras attack faster.
Thats how it works there.
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On December 07 2014 03:03 Clonester wrote:
You remember the time of 2 Code S Terrans?
Blizzard made Hydras attack faster.
Thats how it works there.
You mean patch 2.1 with +10% attack speed for hydras?
The same patch where terrans got free ghost energy upgrade and mine damage doubled vs shields?
The same patch where protoss got MSC vision down from 14 to 9 and time warp energy cost up from 75 to 100?
Yeah, exactly the same thing.
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On December 07 2014 03:03 Clonester wrote:
You remember the time of 2 Code S Terrans?
Blizzard made Hydras attack faster.
Thats how it works there.
Get your facts straight, kiddo.
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Its so funny how everyone cares only about how many times a certain race won a tournament and no one cares how about Ro4 or 2nd place finishers. Hell if Maru had beaten Classic in GSL S2 and then won vs soO, everyone would say Terran was OP even back then, thats how silly it is. With the exception of Red Bull: D.C. and WCS EU (the tournament formerly dominated by korean Protosses, in S3 by korean Terrans) I dont see any tournament after the last patch that was dominated by Terrans. And although i agree that things arent okay now, im absolutely sure that the main reason is the map pool and im also very happy about the TvP change. Reducing the WM splash back to that useless garbage it used to be in TvZ would be a joke (im lookin at you 70+ baneling a-moves).
KeSPA cup was dominated by Protoss and the only non-protoss player there who gave them a run for their money was Flash. (im not surprised since most of the players were protoss)
DH Moscow - MMA got to the finals by winning TvT, beating a mediocre protoss Patience 2:1 and then beating a foreigner and it also happened that a former GSL champion was on fire there (jjakji).
WCS AM S3 - Bomber was able to get to the finals the previous season when Terran was weaker so im not surprised that he won this time and that Polt was in the semis after a close fight with HerO and Heart got to the finals on the back of his godly TvZ?... whats weird about that? Id say a bunch of ppl had been expecting Bomber, Polt and Taeja to be the top three of WCS AM every season this year no matter what kind of balance mess we were in at the start of this year.
Red Bull: Detroit - Polt and Taeja were by far the most accomplished players there.
IEM Toronto - Is it even possible to complain when there was Flash, Zest, Taeja and Life in the top 4?
GSL S3 - One of the best Terrans in the world has won after two seasons without Terrans in GSL. Big deal.
Blizzcon - Zerg won so according to the logic in this thread everythings okay right? Im sure that if Solar or TRUE had started to travel the world earlier this year they would have been in the top 16 as well and we wouldnt have only Life and soO there. (Id say that Hyun and Jaedong were in a pretty bad shape)
Red Bull: D.C. - Yes that one tournament dominated by Terrans..
So yes I think theres a room for improvement. I would change the map pool to something non-terran favored. Id go through with the Widow mine change in TvP right after and probably try to buff Zerg in some way without nerfing Terran to sh*t again.
Anyone claiming that we are in the same situation as GomTvT, BL-Infestor or Blink era is simply talking non-sense and is butthurt cuz his race hasnt won the last premier tournament. The whole mindset of "nerf Terran so my race is stronger" is dumb IMO. Terran also hasnt been buffed by nerfing P or Z (with the exception of MSC nerfs which helped the game immensely and those stats were silly in the first place - 14 vision range wtf?) but by improving Terran units or upgrades. I think Blizzard should do the same with Zerg if needed but I would definitely wait for the new map pool and GSL qualifiers to see how things go.
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On December 06 2014 09:44 Axxis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 03:23 OtherWorld wrote:
FFS Blizzard when will you learn that changing two variables at the same bad is not a good idea... Start by changing the map pool, then see if the imbalance persists. If it does, try your changes. Well same can be said for when they added this change. Taking it out again would simply reiterate your point, they shouldn't have changed this along with other things. Glad to see blizzard listening to the majority of the player base and taking feedback. I feel starcraft has came a long way and its continuing to go in the right direction.
I beg to differ. All the balance patches made the game incredibly stale, boring and predictable. There are slight variations in opening build orders to maybe push some advantage, but in the end most games end up the same.
Terran, for instance, has been doing combinations of MMM for more than four years now and Protoss immortal all-ins and colossus plays haven't changed all that much either. Even Zerg has been stuck on ling-muta-bane for a long time, be it as their main strategy or as a transition into something else. I really feel that SC2 was more interesting in beta and in the first year after launch. Units were way crazier, and some allowed for some very fun games, both to watch and to play.
Maps can even things out a bit, but all races still have tech trees that are completely unviable, regardless of which map players play on. This is just not fun. People want to be able to build hydralisks, carriers and siege tanks, and be able to actually win games with them.
I really hope that Blizzard goes ahead with the 12 worker change and the other plans they've got with Legacy of the Void. It will reset the whole metagame, and the progamers will probably not be amused, but Blizzard is not responsible for the fact that some people's livelihoods depend solely on one of their video games. Sales figures matter a whole lot more than whether or not MC rakes in another few thousand dollars worth of price money. It will make the game feel new and fresh, and casual players will be able to get into action a whole lot faster.
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On December 06 2014 22:50 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 22:13 KrOmander wrote:On December 06 2014 09:57 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 05 2014 22:48 KrOmander wrote:On December 05 2014 22:24 xGameMamba wrote:
- Tresher
This guy is harasing me for no reason in the german bnet forum.
I once said i don't like mech and it's alot easier than bioplay, and since them he hates me.
He is a Silverleague Mechplayer and just cant understand that Swarmhost Mechanics with 4 Different hotkeygroups is hard to play, even I tryed to explain it to him several times.
Even Players like Petraeus, Kane or Hope aggree with that, and pointed it out on Stream more than just once.
_____________
My Intro with "dont argue about it" is explained very simple.
Terran is to strong atm. BLIZZARD CONFIRMED THIS.
Now its time to search for possible solutions how to fix that problem. Blizzard want to do it over the mappool. I dont like that.
You dont have to agree with me in that point, buf if you're stick to the "mimimi nonono my race isnt overpowered" you're obviously not able to discuss about the topic, and you wont try to make the game better. Mech is less mechanically demanding than bio (at least for me and most others I have talked to about it), but I have to say I found your post quite funny. I especially like the bit where you dismiss mech and then celebrate swarmhost play like it is the epitome of skill in sc2. I guess you lose to mech a lot? It is ok, I still suck at dealing with Protoss doomball armies in late game, but I will not be making whine posts on bnet forums about it. Properly controlling a Swarm Host based game -IS- hard. and so is properly controlling a lot of other unit comps, what is the point of your post? Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget. They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball.
Zerg = Constant Creep Spread, Inject, Swarm Host Burrow, Unburrow, Reposition
Protoss = Macro requires switching screens ( can't just hotkey gateways and produce them while looking at fighting screen), use of constant spells
Terran = Same screen macro, Press T for stim, Press A to attack
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On December 06 2014 22:50 SC2Toastie wrote:
Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget.
They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball.
#FirstWorldpatchZergProblems
The thing is about Swarm Hosts is that their range and cool down allows them to always evade armies on creep; If they're constantly doing hit and runs with burrow and reburrow you can't actually catch the damn things unless you have boosted medivacs because you HAVE to waste time killing the locusts (otherwise your army will be torn to shreds).
Yeah it does take a lot more than just holding down 2 buttons, but that's a lot of things in StarCraft; doesn't really excuse the fact that Swarm Hosts allow players to get kills / large space control / pose a constant threat with minimal risk and vulnerability (assuming the player is competent enough to unburrow each time the locust wave goes out).
If Static Defense didn't exist in the game then maybe there'd be more merit to the "Swarm Hosts are hard  " whine lol.
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The map pool change alone should be enough. Doing both at the same time doesn't seem that good.
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On December 07 2014 08:25 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 22:50 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 06 2014 22:13 KrOmander wrote:On December 06 2014 09:57 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 05 2014 22:48 KrOmander wrote:On December 05 2014 22:24 xGameMamba wrote:
- Tresher
This guy is harasing me for no reason in the german bnet forum.
I once said i don't like mech and it's alot easier than bioplay, and since them he hates me.
He is a Silverleague Mechplayer and just cant understand that Swarmhost Mechanics with 4 Different hotkeygroups is hard to play, even I tryed to explain it to him several times.
Even Players like Petraeus, Kane or Hope aggree with that, and pointed it out on Stream more than just once.
_____________
My Intro with "dont argue about it" is explained very simple.
Terran is to strong atm. BLIZZARD CONFIRMED THIS.
Now its time to search for possible solutions how to fix that problem. Blizzard want to do it over the mappool. I dont like that.
You dont have to agree with me in that point, buf if you're stick to the "mimimi nonono my race isnt overpowered" you're obviously not able to discuss about the topic, and you wont try to make the game better. Mech is less mechanically demanding than bio (at least for me and most others I have talked to about it), but I have to say I found your post quite funny. I especially like the bit where you dismiss mech and then celebrate swarmhost play like it is the epitome of skill in sc2. I guess you lose to mech a lot? It is ok, I still suck at dealing with Protoss doomball armies in late game, but I will not be making whine posts on bnet forums about it. Properly controlling a Swarm Host based game -IS- hard. and so is properly controlling a lot of other unit comps, what is the point of your post? Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget. They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball. Zerg = Constant Creep Spread, Inject, Swarm Host Burrow, Unburrow, Reposition Protoss = Macro requires switching screens ( can't just hotkey gateways and produce them while looking at fighting screen), use of constant spells Terran = Same screen macro, Press T for stim, Press A to attack
This is very funny :D Can we keep it real for a change?
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Based on Aligulac PvZ was above 50% for first time in 9 months,and TvZ is below 50% in last two months and trending down Somehow it translates into Zerg underperforming in both matchups.
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On December 07 2014 08:25 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 22:50 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 06 2014 22:13 KrOmander wrote:On December 06 2014 09:57 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 05 2014 22:48 KrOmander wrote:On December 05 2014 22:24 xGameMamba wrote:
- Tresher
This guy is harasing me for no reason in the german bnet forum.
I once said i don't like mech and it's alot easier than bioplay, and since them he hates me.
He is a Silverleague Mechplayer and just cant understand that Swarmhost Mechanics with 4 Different hotkeygroups is hard to play, even I tryed to explain it to him several times.
Even Players like Petraeus, Kane or Hope aggree with that, and pointed it out on Stream more than just once.
_____________
My Intro with "dont argue about it" is explained very simple.
Terran is to strong atm. BLIZZARD CONFIRMED THIS.
Now its time to search for possible solutions how to fix that problem. Blizzard want to do it over the mappool. I dont like that.
You dont have to agree with me in that point, buf if you're stick to the "mimimi nonono my race isnt overpowered" you're obviously not able to discuss about the topic, and you wont try to make the game better. Mech is less mechanically demanding than bio (at least for me and most others I have talked to about it), but I have to say I found your post quite funny. I especially like the bit where you dismiss mech and then celebrate swarmhost play like it is the epitome of skill in sc2. I guess you lose to mech a lot? It is ok, I still suck at dealing with Protoss doomball armies in late game, but I will not be making whine posts on bnet forums about it. Properly controlling a Swarm Host based game -IS- hard. and so is properly controlling a lot of other unit comps, what is the point of your post? Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget. They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball. Zerg = Constant Creep Spread, Inject, Swarm Host Burrow, Unburrow, Reposition Protoss = Macro requires switching screens ( can't just hotkey gateways and produce them while looking at fighting screen), use of constant spells Terran = Same screen macro, Press T for stim, Press A to attack
Dude, are you even serious?
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On December 07 2014 08:34 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 22:50 SC2Toastie wrote:
Apparantly a number of people think Swarm Host are set and forget.
They DEMAND more control that the infamous PProtoss 1a2ttttttt ball. #FirstWorld patchZergProblems The thing is about Swarm Hosts is that their range and cool down allows them to always evade armies on creep; If they're constantly doing hit and runs with burrow and reburrow you can't actually catch the damn things unless you have boosted medivacs because you HAVE to waste time killing the locusts (otherwise your army will be torn to shreds). Yeah it does take a lot more than just holding down 2 buttons, but that's a lot of things in StarCraft; doesn't really excuse the fact that Swarm Hosts allow players to get kills / large space control / pose a constant threat with minimal risk and vulnerability (assuming the player is competent enough to unburrow each time the locust wave goes out). If Static Defense didn't exist in the game then maybe there'd be more merit to the "Swarm Hosts are hard " whine lol.
This isn't whine, and you are oversimplifying the Swarm Host.
As long as you have full vision, Hosts are really strong. But Terran and Protoss can easily erase Creep against Swarmhost which makes positioning really hard. Combine that with going multipronged and the Swarm Host player has to constantly scramble to hold his bases and army together.
There's a lot of tiny decisions and moves going on that are hard to spot. Try to find a replay of Zerg vs P/T going Swarm Host, watch in First Person. You'll see how choked you can feel.
Also, I don't know what the patchzerg comment means.
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But ofc Protoss is just a "1a2ttttttt ball." Without oversimplifying it in the least.
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On December 07 2014 09:16 keglu wrote:
Based on Aligulac PvZ was above 50% for first time in 9 months,and TvZ is below 50% in last two months and trending down Somehow it translates into Zerg underperforming in both matchups.
Aligulac lumps too many variables together to be worthwhile. You need to narrow it down to premiere tournament matches and the winrates will skew a lot farther.
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EPT
