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On November 10 2014 02:33 mille25 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:26 GinDo wrote:
Did they mention when Beta will be out? Redeye mentioned "January 2015" for open beta just before the LotV exhibition matches started, however, later in the multiplayer panel the Blizzard devs called the current state "pre-Alpha" and mentioned that the beta would start "first half of 2015". Considering that the Heroes closed beta starts in January as well, Redeye may have confused it with that, but no idea. To my knowledge there has been no official confirmation for January. As for the changes, I'm shocked by the negative feedback. I think they are going in the right direction with their ideas. Of course nothing is balanced pre beta, but the general IDEA behind those changes is right.
I think that as long as we're talking about StarCraft II, the general (potentially nostalgia-blinded) fanbase will continue to just say "this is shit." I was one of those people for WOL as well, but it seems odd that people would complain about this rendition, since the HOTS also had radical changes to the game, not all of which actually made it into the game
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On November 10 2014 02:26 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:23 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:20 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:17 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:14 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:03 Everlong wrote:
What will Terran do against mass Tempests now that PDD is not an answer to this anymore? Even if they don't shoot up, you can't attack Tempests with your Viking/Raven/Bc into storm/archons, etc.. Beside that, they got this 500dmg over time thing and are faster? I mean, this sounds even more broken then it is now, but now the counter from Terran is gone (Pdd lasting only 10 seconds or so), so if Protoss succesfully turtles into 20 Tempests, I can just leave the game? Somebody explain to me, please...
when did pdd get nerfed? the OP doesn't say something about pdd. It is mentioned in 1 of those exhibition matches and you can see how now PDD lasts about 10 seconds or something like that. There are lost of hidden changes that are not "officially" mentioned, like Colossus having 8 range instead of 9 now I believe (not sure about this one however). Wow. it seems like blizzard has done everything to please the whiners on the battle.net forum. not long and they will realize that these type of people complain about everything, no matter what you change. They believe the Raven is causing all the late-game stalemates and so they just went ahead and did this change. So I don't think you will be now able to do anything against mass (faster) Tempests with HT/Archon and stuff under them. Unless there are other hidden changes I'm not aware of. So I guess for meching Terran, once you scan Stargates, pull SCV and thats it. On a pure theorycrafting note, I think that it'd be interesting to see the Cyclone in action against that composition. But obviously, we're gonna have to actually play it.
I think the Tempest (having the longest range) would force Cyclones to attack into their counter units sitting under them, otherwise they would just slowly eat them. But I'm interested of course what will happen when we actually get to play the game.
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the immortal ability reminds me of the voidray charge. just a 1 click "my unit is now better" spell without drawbacks.
this doesn't promote micro or adds depth, its just another useless apm drain.
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On November 10 2014 02:39 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:26 IntoTheheart wrote:On November 10 2014 02:23 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:20 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:17 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:14 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:03 Everlong wrote:
What will Terran do against mass Tempests now that PDD is not an answer to this anymore? Even if they don't shoot up, you can't attack Tempests with your Viking/Raven/Bc into storm/archons, etc.. Beside that, they got this 500dmg over time thing and are faster? I mean, this sounds even more broken then it is now, but now the counter from Terran is gone (Pdd lasting only 10 seconds or so), so if Protoss succesfully turtles into 20 Tempests, I can just leave the game? Somebody explain to me, please...
when did pdd get nerfed? the OP doesn't say something about pdd. It is mentioned in 1 of those exhibition matches and you can see how now PDD lasts about 10 seconds or something like that. There are lost of hidden changes that are not "officially" mentioned, like Colossus having 8 range instead of 9 now I believe (not sure about this one however). Wow. it seems like blizzard has done everything to please the whiners on the battle.net forum. not long and they will realize that these type of people complain about everything, no matter what you change. They believe the Raven is causing all the late-game stalemates and so they just went ahead and did this change. So I don't think you will be now able to do anything against mass (faster) Tempests with HT/Archon and stuff under them. Unless there are other hidden changes I'm not aware of. So I guess for meching Terran, once you scan Stargates, pull SCV and thats it. On a pure theorycrafting note, I think that it'd be interesting to see the Cyclone in action against that composition. But obviously, we're gonna have to actually play it. I think the Tempest (having the longest range) would force Cyclones to attack into their counter units sitting under them, otherwise they would just slowly eat them. But I'm interested of course what will happen when we actually get to play the game.
So Protoss needs to produce T3 capital ships just to shut down cheap Terran T1.5 units?
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On November 10 2014 02:37 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:33 mille25 wrote:On November 10 2014 02:26 GinDo wrote:
Did they mention when Beta will be out? Redeye mentioned "January 2015" for open beta just before the LotV exhibition matches started, however, later in the multiplayer panel the Blizzard devs called the current state "pre-Alpha" and mentioned that the beta would start "first half of 2015". Considering that the Heroes closed beta starts in January as well, Redeye may have confused it with that, but no idea. To my knowledge there has been no official confirmation for January. As for the changes, I'm shocked by the negative feedback. I think they are going in the right direction with their ideas. Of course nothing is balanced pre beta, but the general IDEA behind those changes is right. I think that as long as we're talking about StarCraft II, the general (potentially nostalgia-blinded) fanbase will continue to just say "this is shit." I was one of those people for WOL as well, but it seems odd that people would complain about this rendition, since the HOTS also had radical changes to the game, not all of which actually made it into the game
There are SC2 fans that have short/selective memories and forgot that Blizzard really switched stuff up in HotS. The same is going to be for legecy of the void. As long as we are still stimming/splitting marines, blinking stalkers and magic boxing mutas, its will always be SC2. The whole meta will change and people can't predict how that will turn out(though some will write novels trying).
No matter what happens, it will be fun to watch.
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On November 10 2014 02:40 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:39 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:26 IntoTheheart wrote:On November 10 2014 02:23 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:20 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:17 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:14 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:03 Everlong wrote:
What will Terran do against mass Tempests now that PDD is not an answer to this anymore? Even if they don't shoot up, you can't attack Tempests with your Viking/Raven/Bc into storm/archons, etc.. Beside that, they got this 500dmg over time thing and are faster? I mean, this sounds even more broken then it is now, but now the counter from Terran is gone (Pdd lasting only 10 seconds or so), so if Protoss succesfully turtles into 20 Tempests, I can just leave the game? Somebody explain to me, please...
when did pdd get nerfed? the OP doesn't say something about pdd. It is mentioned in 1 of those exhibition matches and you can see how now PDD lasts about 10 seconds or something like that. There are lost of hidden changes that are not "officially" mentioned, like Colossus having 8 range instead of 9 now I believe (not sure about this one however). Wow. it seems like blizzard has done everything to please the whiners on the battle.net forum. not long and they will realize that these type of people complain about everything, no matter what you change. They believe the Raven is causing all the late-game stalemates and so they just went ahead and did this change. So I don't think you will be now able to do anything against mass (faster) Tempests with HT/Archon and stuff under them. Unless there are other hidden changes I'm not aware of. So I guess for meching Terran, once you scan Stargates, pull SCV and thats it. On a pure theorycrafting note, I think that it'd be interesting to see the Cyclone in action against that composition. But obviously, we're gonna have to actually play it. I think the Tempest (having the longest range) would force Cyclones to attack into their counter units sitting under them, otherwise they would just slowly eat them. But I'm interested of course what will happen when we actually get to play the game. So Protoss needs to produce T3 capital ships just to shut down cheap Terran T1.5 units?
No.
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On November 10 2014 02:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:37 IntoTheheart wrote:On November 10 2014 02:33 mille25 wrote:On November 10 2014 02:26 GinDo wrote:
Did they mention when Beta will be out? Redeye mentioned "January 2015" for open beta just before the LotV exhibition matches started, however, later in the multiplayer panel the Blizzard devs called the current state "pre-Alpha" and mentioned that the beta would start "first half of 2015". Considering that the Heroes closed beta starts in January as well, Redeye may have confused it with that, but no idea. To my knowledge there has been no official confirmation for January. As for the changes, I'm shocked by the negative feedback. I think they are going in the right direction with their ideas. Of course nothing is balanced pre beta, but the general IDEA behind those changes is right. I think that as long as we're talking about StarCraft II, the general (potentially nostalgia-blinded) fanbase will continue to just say "this is shit." I was one of those people for WOL as well, but it seems odd that people would complain about this rendition, since the HOTS also had radical changes to the game, not all of which actually made it into the game There are SC2 fans that have short/selective memories and forgot that Blizzard really switched stuff up in HotS. The same is going to be for legecy of the void. As long as we are still stimming/splitting marines, blinking stalkers and magic boxing mutas, its will always be SC2. The whole meta will change and people can't predict how that will turn out(though some will write novels trying). No matter what happens, it will be fun to watch.
And speaking from my heart, fun to play.
HOTS was the first time in a long time that RTS games were as fun for me as BW.
I think that I'm gonna love the new economy, but of course, we'll have to wait and see.
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On November 10 2014 02:40 Charoisaur wrote:
the immortal ability reminds me of the voidray charge. just a 1 click "my unit is now better" spell without drawbacks.
this doesn't promote micro or adds depth, its just another useless apm drain.
Am I the only one that vastly preferred the old void ray (that charged up by having its attack on for a sufficient time) ?
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I really dislike how blizzard just adds new units to say "hey we have more stuff" but these units just doesn't fit in the game.
We already had that in HOTS with the oracle. this unit does nothing for the game except adding a new cheese but blizzard still kept it in the game just to show that they have added something.
I fear it will be the same with the LOTV units. i really don't see any use for most of them.
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On November 10 2014 02:23 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:20 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:17 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:14 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:03 Everlong wrote:
What will Terran do against mass Tempests now that PDD is not an answer to this anymore? Even if they don't shoot up, you can't attack Tempests with your Viking/Raven/Bc into storm/archons, etc.. Beside that, they got this 500dmg over time thing and are faster? I mean, this sounds even more broken then it is now, but now the counter from Terran is gone (Pdd lasting only 10 seconds or so), so if Protoss succesfully turtles into 20 Tempests, I can just leave the game? Somebody explain to me, please...
when did pdd get nerfed? the OP doesn't say something about pdd. It is mentioned in 1 of those exhibition matches and you can see how now PDD lasts about 10 seconds or something like that. There are lost of hidden changes that are not "officially" mentioned, like Colossus having 8 range instead of 9 now I believe (not sure about this one however). Wow. it seems like blizzard has done everything to please the whiners on the battle.net forum. not long and they will realize that these type of people complain about everything, no matter what you change. They believe the Raven is causing all the late-game stalemates and so they just went ahead and did this change. So I don't think you will be now able to do anything against mass (faster) Tempests with HT/Archon and stuff under them. Unless there are other hidden changes I'm not aware of. So I guess for meching Terran, once you scan Stargates, pull SCV and thats it.
You are whining about something that isn't even in the game yet. If you think that everything from the game will pass the beta testing, then you are doing something wrong if you are not winning the game in the first 10 minutes with Cyclones.
Of course that many of these will be nerfed, Cyclones, invulnerability of Disruptors, probably the Nydus too and my guess is that Tempest's range will be reduced since they are not the snipers of important units anymore.
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On November 10 2014 02:50 Charoisaur wrote:
I really dislike how blizzard just adds new units to say "hey we have more stuff" but these units just doesn't fit in the game.
We already had that in HOTS with the oracle. this unit does nothing for the game except adding a new cheese but blizzard still kept it in the game just to show that they have added something.
I fear it will be the same with the LOTV units. i really don't see any use for most of them.
This is actually the only thing I find worrisome. It looks like they're still adding units for the sake of adding units instead of wondering what are the gaps that need to be filled and create units that serve that purpose. They seem to do it the other way around, they come up with something and then desperately try to make it fit.
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On November 10 2014 02:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:40 Charoisaur wrote:
the immortal ability reminds me of the voidray charge. just a 1 click "my unit is now better" spell without drawbacks.
this doesn't promote micro or adds depth, its just another useless apm drain. Am I the only one that vastly preferred the old void ray (that charged up by having its attack on for a sufficient time) ?
The old VR punished you for controlling it a lot, because you'd lose the charge a lot of times. It was best used when you identified the unit you wanted to target and right clicked it. In the early game there were some cool micro possibilities with it, but later on it was very dull.
And it just didn't work in bigger amounts. Multiple VRs would always kill their targets before they were charged. One of the reasons why it was so bad against BL/Infestor.
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On November 10 2014 02:23 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:20 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:17 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:14 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:03 Everlong wrote:
What will Terran do against mass Tempests now that PDD is not an answer to this anymore? Even if they don't shoot up, you can't attack Tempests with your Viking/Raven/Bc into storm/archons, etc.. Beside that, they got this 500dmg over time thing and are faster? I mean, this sounds even more broken then it is now, but now the counter from Terran is gone (Pdd lasting only 10 seconds or so), so if Protoss succesfully turtles into 20 Tempests, I can just leave the game? Somebody explain to me, please...
when did pdd get nerfed? the OP doesn't say something about pdd. It is mentioned in 1 of those exhibition matches and you can see how now PDD lasts about 10 seconds or something like that. There are lost of hidden changes that are not "officially" mentioned, like Colossus having 8 range instead of 9 now I believe (not sure about this one however). Wow. it seems like blizzard has done everything to please the whiners on the battle.net forum. not long and they will realize that these type of people complain about everything, no matter what you change. They believe the Raven is causing all the late-game stalemates and so they just went ahead and did this change. So I don't think you will be now able to do anything against mass (faster) Tempests with HT/Archon and stuff under them. Unless there are other hidden changes I'm not aware of. So I guess for meching Terran, once you scan Stargates, pull SCV and thats it.
I'm not that pessimistic. Vikings are still pretty good especially if they still share upgrades. I'm holding out for the Goliath though.
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On November 10 2014 02:52 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 10 2014 02:40 Charoisaur wrote:
the immortal ability reminds me of the voidray charge. just a 1 click "my unit is now better" spell without drawbacks.
this doesn't promote micro or adds depth, its just another useless apm drain. Am I the only one that vastly preferred the old void ray (that charged up by having its attack on for a sufficient time) ? The old VR punished you for controlling it a lot, because you'd lose the charge a lot of times. It was best used when you identified the unit you wanted to target and right clicked it. In the early game there were some cool micro possibilities with it, but later on it was very dull. And it just didn't work in bigger amounts. Multiple VRs would always kill their targets before they were charged. One of the reasons why it was so bad against BL/Infestor.
Yeah but was it a bad thing ? Mass VR has never and will probably never be interesting. With the old VR, early game harass was pretty interesting and managing to get the charge made a big difference.
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On November 10 2014 02:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:52 Big J wrote:On November 10 2014 02:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 10 2014 02:40 Charoisaur wrote:
the immortal ability reminds me of the voidray charge. just a 1 click "my unit is now better" spell without drawbacks.
this doesn't promote micro or adds depth, its just another useless apm drain. Am I the only one that vastly preferred the old void ray (that charged up by having its attack on for a sufficient time) ? The old VR punished you for controlling it a lot, because you'd lose the charge a lot of times. It was best used when you identified the unit you wanted to target and right clicked it. In the early game there were some cool micro possibilities with it, but later on it was very dull. And it just didn't work in bigger amounts. Multiple VRs would always kill their targets before they were charged. One of the reasons why it was so bad against BL/Infestor. Yeah but was it a bad thing ? Mass VR has never and will probably never be interesting. With the old VR, early game harass was pretty interesting and managing to get the charge made a big difference.
Well, but that just means that the VR should still be looked at if it isn't interesting. Not that the previously uninteresting state was good.
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On November 10 2014 02:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:40 Charoisaur wrote:
the immortal ability reminds me of the voidray charge. just a 1 click "my unit is now better" spell without drawbacks.
this doesn't promote micro or adds depth, its just another useless apm drain. Am I the only one that vastly preferred the old void ray (that charged up by having its attack on for a sufficient time) ?
New one definitely should have been implemented better, but I understand why they changed it. Old one was far worse when they managed to charge up to the maximum potential because their bonus damage was constant(and keep in mind that it was bonus against everything, not just armored) and there wasn't anyway to stop it. They could charge up on near Pylon/Rocks/Zealots and just wreak havoc.
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On November 09 2014 18:43 Krogan wrote:
I hope that roach morph is at hive at least, I know beta isn't even here yet but how exactly does toss stop a roach max in lotv?
You do realize that the roach morph costs additional ressources, especially gas?
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On November 10 2014 02:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 10 2014 02:40 Charoisaur wrote:
the immortal ability reminds me of the voidray charge. just a 1 click "my unit is now better" spell without drawbacks.
this doesn't promote micro or adds depth, its just another useless apm drain. Am I the only one that vastly preferred the old void ray (that charged up by having its attack on for a sufficient time) ? New one definitely should have been implemented better, but I understand why they changed it. Old one was far worse when they managed to charge up to the maximum potential because their bonus damage was constant(and keep in mind that it was bonus against everything, not just armored) and there wasn't anyway to stop it. They could charge up on near Pylon/Rocks/Zealots and just wreak havoc.
The mechanics of the old Void Ray also made it the most a-move friendly unit in the game. Target firing was inefficient because it would kill any unit before the VR's had a chance to charge up, and actually reduce overall army DPS compared to simply a-moving. Attack upgrades were also kind of bad for it for the same reason- too many attack upgrades and you might end up killing enemy units before you were fully charged, again reducing DPS.
New VR is miles better mechanically, but still pretty bad.
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On November 10 2014 02:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 02:23 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:20 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:17 Everlong wrote:On November 10 2014 02:14 Charoisaur wrote:On November 10 2014 02:03 Everlong wrote:
What will Terran do against mass Tempests now that PDD is not an answer to this anymore? Even if they don't shoot up, you can't attack Tempests with your Viking/Raven/Bc into storm/archons, etc.. Beside that, they got this 500dmg over time thing and are faster? I mean, this sounds even more broken then it is now, but now the counter from Terran is gone (Pdd lasting only 10 seconds or so), so if Protoss succesfully turtles into 20 Tempests, I can just leave the game? Somebody explain to me, please...
when did pdd get nerfed? the OP doesn't say something about pdd. It is mentioned in 1 of those exhibition matches and you can see how now PDD lasts about 10 seconds or something like that. There are lost of hidden changes that are not "officially" mentioned, like Colossus having 8 range instead of 9 now I believe (not sure about this one however). Wow. it seems like blizzard has done everything to please the whiners on the battle.net forum. not long and they will realize that these type of people complain about everything, no matter what you change. They believe the Raven is causing all the late-game stalemates and so they just went ahead and did this change. So I don't think you will be now able to do anything against mass (faster) Tempests with HT/Archon and stuff under them. Unless there are other hidden changes I'm not aware of. So I guess for meching Terran, once you scan Stargates, pull SCV and thats it. You are whining about something that isn't even in the game yet. If you think that everything from the game will pass the beta testing, then you are doing something wrong if you are not winning the game in the first 10 minutes with Cyclones. Of course that many of these will be nerfed, Cyclones, invulnerability of Disruptors, probably the Nydus too and my guess is that Tempest's range will be reduced since they are not the snipers of important units anymore.
I'm theorycrafting with informations I currently have (thus counting with what IS in the game right now). You, on the other hand, base your argument on your guesses what will be nerfed (thus counting with what ISN'T in the game right now).
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The old concept of the voidray is superior to the current imo.
The longer it fires at 1enemy, the more dmg it do. Wouldnt it be possible to make that concept better with more micro for both players?
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EPT
