EPTOn November 09 2014 22:03 y0su wrote:
sounds like the replicator just turned into the shredder...
sounds like the replicator just turned into the shredder...
my thoughts exactly!
Legacy of the Void Announced - Page 97
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tar
Germany991 Posts
my thoughts exactly! | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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propagare
Germany93 Posts
NA: battlenet://starcraft/map/1/245868 https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2logm5/ive_created_extension_mod_with_two_most_important/ Have a nice day [Zelos] propagare | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Its about micro for both sides. Control for both sides. In every video game its boring when u lose control of what you can do. Its boring when the decisions are not from the player but the race/character. Why dont they look at the zealot? I seriously dont understand that. More micro here. What is more fun. Watching bio kite vs zealots while zealots cant do anything? Or watch bio vs zealots that can do anything? Faster passivespeed - Manual charge, make it useable on ground so zealots can use it to: -flank better -Close distance -Dodge things The sentinel could perhaps get something more fun than the "reduce 2dmg". Maybe synergy with zealots more. Like, this charge could remove the lockon from cyclone. So far imo: I really love their intention here in Lotv. I really really hope they go through with it - I still doubt it to be completely frank. I hope its possible to early poke, early harass. The micro for both sides start and then macro begins early as hell. When i say macro begins early i do mean, in a more relevant way. Such as, you dont need X unit to do anything. Maybe create lotv forum?  Any comments about the zealot btw? Anything? | ||
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Aenur
Germany66 Posts
On November 09 2014 22:35 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: switch to 55:48 for the best question. Murica rofl Yeah, wasted precious question time. How embarassing >.> | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
So apparently David Kim likes the moving shot on the Banshee and therefore gives it an additional range, but I still have no idea why Blizzard maintains the 0.16 damage point on it then. 6 range + 0 DP is so much preferable to 7 range and 0.16 DP in my opinion. It would create a much worse interaction vs: marines, hydralisks and maybe against noblink-stalkers. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 09 2014 23:30 Foxxan wrote: Any comments about the zealot btw? Anything? We might get a new skin!  Now seriously, out of all units I really don't think that Zealots should be touched. They are solid, melee tanky units. Not every unit should be perfectly microable and I am fine that Zealots aren't. There are still small things in the early game where you want to micro your Zealots but that is it. I am not sure how much microable they would become with more movement speed, manual charge could work but then you would have just too many units that have manual abilities. Right now, Immortals have one, Sentries obviously, Stalkers have blink, new unit has active ability, High Templars have spells so it might be just too much. I am perfectly fine with having few units like Archons and Zealots that are just meant to tank and not give them much attention. | ||
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Lithian
Finland38 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 09 2014 23:40 Ramiz1989 wrote: We might get a new skin! Now seriously, out of all units I really don't think that Zealots should be touched. They are solid, melee tanky units. Not every unit should be perfectly microable and I am fine that Zealots aren't. There are still small things in the early game where you want to micro your Zealots but that is it. I am not sure how much microable they would become with more movement speed, manual charge could work but then you would have just too many units that have manual abilities. Right now, Immortals have one, Sentries obviously, Stalkers have blink, new unit has active ability, High Templars have spells so it might be just too much. I am perfectly fine with having few units like Archons and Zealots that are just meant to tank and not give them much attention. I understand your concerns, adding buttons to every unit. But maybe its not that bad tho. Maybe the zealot wouldnt work much better anyway with more passive speed. Just wish there were a bit more control for the zealot somehow. Although i do seperate abilities with spells: Sentries and hightemplars are spellcasters, they behave very differnet than abilities. I just wish at the very least zealot had more micro with their charge on manual cast. Perhaps some passive ability could work. If they get attacked, they move faster and faster. Dunno. So adding more passive movement to the zealot and then the passive "when getting damaged, it moves faster". And then a manual charge. EDIT: since zealots are a core unit i feel its actually important to try and really improve this unit in the control department. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 09 2014 23:40 Ramiz1989 wrote: We might get a new skin! Now seriously, out of all units I really don't think that Zealots should be touched. They are solid, melee tanky units. Not every unit should be perfectly microable and I am fine that Zealots aren't. Charge should be removed in favor of a simple bonus to movement speed (+ immunity to slow effects probably) so that Zealots are faster than stimmed bio. That way Protoss would be able to manually surround (a bit like Zerglings), and they could also perform better raids or pre-flanking. Zealots had so much more finesse in BW PvT since you could return Terran's AoE against him by dragging Mines (and overall splash damage) into his own units. SC2 Zealots desperately need some kind of interaction like that instead of being horribly low skill 1a units with Charge auto-closing the gap, auto-chasing and even auto-spreading against AoE. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Good point about the mines from bw since in sc2 there are widowmines. I almost forgot that zealots have like no fun interaction vs widowmines. | ||
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fmod
Cayman Islands330 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 10 2014 00:02 fmod wrote: Zerg units look pretty cool, terran and protoss units look kinda idk.. Also why did they have to make the tempest even more of a hardcounter vs broodlords? They are not, they have now ability that deals 500 damage over 50 seconds, which means that Brood Lords will easily stay alive if you have few Queens transfusing them. That ability doesn't stack, and almost nobody makes Brood Lords today because 3 Tempests are enough for them to be completely useless. New Tempest can't attack air, is a lot faster, has smaller range(I think) and has that ability. Just for the fact that it can't attack air anymore and that it can't snipe massive air units we might see Carriers/Battle Cruisers/Brood Lords in PvP/T/Z. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
This would open up alore more stuff. Such as early marauder poke vs protoss. Was so cool to see this build in wol. Instead of mscore, perhaps better gateway units and/or a shieldbattery from broodwar. Its a cheap building that can recharge shield of ally protoss units. One at a time. Drawback in broodwar was that the unit that was healed were stunned. Could be cool. Ofcourse it can be tweaked into sc2 if necessary. Wouldnt this shieldbattery synergy with archons versus mutas btw? | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 09 2014 23:55 TheDwf wrote: Charge should be removed in favor of a simple bonus to movement speed (+ immunity to slow effects probably) so that Zealots are faster than stimmed bio. That way Protoss would be able to manually surround (a bit like Zerglings), and they could also perform better raids or pre-flanking. Zealots had so much more finesse in BW PvT since you could return Terran's AoE against him by dragging Mines (and overall splash damage) into his own units. SC2 Zealots desperately need some kind of interaction like that instead of being horribly low skill 1a units with Charge auto-closing the gap, auto-chasing and even auto-spreading against AoE. I am not sure how that is any different in HotS? Zealots still serve like that with their charge, what exactly is the difference between a speed Zealot and charge Zealot when attacking except for maybe a bit better surround? BW was also a had different values, of course that this isn't as good when Mines and Tanks in BW did a ton splash damage, and beside Widow Mines you aren't even using much splash anymore. Strategies have changed a lot, we don't see Zealot Bombs with Shuttle/Warp Prism in SC2 because Tank as unit and Mech as strategy almost doesn't exist in TvP. I seriously don't see Zealots becoming more microable and better with giving them passive speed upgrade and removing charge. Giving them speed boost also means that they have to run at least as fast as stimmed bio and I don't think that is a good idea, having Zealots that outrun most of the SC2 ground units. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
In sc2, you will be able to make so widowmines shoot a zealot close to marines/marauders with a faster passivemovement. The difference between the autocharge and passivespeed is that the charge happens once every 10seconds, after this time the zealots are to slow to ever hit marines or marauders. With the autocharge and slow movementspeed - Preflanks are pretty much non-existent. Since they move so slow and cant really fight back, but once every 10sec they will die easily vs stimmed bio. With a fasterpassive speed, it would be possible to setup flanks just because if stimmedbio try to attack one side of the zealots, just move those back and move the other sides closer to the bio. And autocharge=No player control. When i watch this iam never really excited about the protoss side of the matchup since the zealots do it themself and they do it overall poorly. It could still be abit fun to watch this when widowmines werent in play - But only because stimbio did the micro. With this slow passive speed and autocharge - widowmines just own them to hard. Not much the lots can do. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8704 Posts
On November 09 2014 23:55 TheDwf wrote: Charge should be removed in favor of a simple bonus to movement speed (+ immunity to slow effects probably) so that Zealots are faster than stimmed bio. That way Protoss would be able to manually surround (a bit like Zerglings), and they could also perform better raids or pre-flanking. Zealots had so much more finesse in BW PvT since you could return Terran's AoE against him by dragging Mines (and overall splash damage) into his own units. SC2 Zealots desperately need some kind of interaction like that instead of being horribly low skill 1a units with Charge auto-closing the gap, auto-chasing and even auto-spreading against AoE. I agree with that, lose your AoE and Terran will dance circles around you and the only thing you can do is watch. Problem is how would you implement that? I haven't played BW at all but I can see how the change alone from 2D to 3D brought a whole bunch of problems with it. Marines are that strong in SC2(3D) because of their size/dps/cost/microability, as far as I understand it that was not at all the case in BW(2D), besides the point that you could only manage only a handful of units with one control group. I would like improvements in such a direction, though I am not sure if we don't have to start from scratch then and throw away too much of what we have now - a.k.a a working game, for better and worse. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
The reason marines are so much stronger in SC2 vs SCBW can partially be simply explained with the fact that their stats just got buffed through the roof. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 10 2014 00:24 Ramiz1989 wrote: I am not sure how that is any different in HotS? Zealots still serve like that with their charge, what exactly is the difference between a speed Zealot and charge Zealot when attacking except for maybe a bit better surround? The difference is the player does the micro in BW, while the game does it for you in SC2. This allows bad players to get the same (or nearly the same) out of the unit as much better players. BW was also a had different values, of course that this isn't as good when Mines and Tanks in BW did a ton splash damage, and beside Widow Mines you aren't even using much splash anymore. Strategies have changed a lot, we don't see Zealot Bombs with Shuttle/Warp Prism in SC2 because Tank as unit and Mech as strategy almost doesn't exist in TvP. Yes, but the point is such things should be implemented; it doesn't matter if they come with different compositions or in different ways. Since SC2 removed the barrier of limited selection resulting in tons of damage burst/dps over a small/tiny surface, strong splash damage is one of the few ways to add finesse and crowd control (but it needs to go both ways and the splash units need to be demanding themselves in some way...). Imagine how horrible Marines would be in TvZ without banes forcing a cautious approach and micro, — you would just pack everything and 1a in a tight ball dps'ing down everything with laughable ease. In the Zealot case, of course as a melee unit there isn't an unlimited micro potential to begin with, so a good part of it would have to come from the opposition (for instance the splash damage of Mines or Tanks—strongly encouraging bio to include those units in TvP is the way to go imo). Currently, against the single target damage from Marines, Marauders or Ghosts there is no particular counter-micro to perform; the unit doesn't have enough hit points (say unlike an Ultralisk) to be retreated from battle in time so you just let it attack and do its job in autopilot. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3477 Posts
Faster passivespeed - Manual charge, make it useable on ground so zealots can use it to: -flank better -Close distance -Dodge things The sentinel could perhaps get something more fun than the "reduce 2dmg". Maybe synergy with zealots more You an deactivate Charge and manually do it. Charge does all those things u listed. It's also very Zealot-like and probably a lot of peoples favourite upgrade, I know it is for Artosis and his number one fanboi Apollo. I've thought about making the Guardian Shield like Spirit Link from Warcraft3, where all units under the Guardian Shield now share a % of their Shield with each other. But honestly this would just increase the death ball effect. | ||
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