On November 09 2014 13:05 VArsovskiSC wrote: Well now I get why everyone was b*tching about the Cyclone..
I mean - Terran DISGUSTINGLY OP - AGAIN ??
Seriously - someone check DKim's mental health ?
Why ALWAYS it's the Terran that has to be FREAKIN OP in the development stage ?
WHAT ON EARTH do they get by making Terran be the biggest disgusting thing ever existed, and then have to hit like 30 nerfs for scrubs to say that Terran doesn't get what they should or whatever ?
WHY THE HELL did the Photon Overcharge stop shooting air AND Banshees get increased range
WHY THE HELL doesn't the Disruptor hit air - thought those were a new way to deal with the Mutalisks
I mean W.T.F. - so I guess out of the new races - only Zerg seems fine ATM
lol are you playing the game? who gives a fuck if its balanced in development
if it were already balanced it wouldnt need "development" it would already be developed and released... i swear people just bitch for the sake of bitching
Sorry dude, BUT - disgusts me to see ALWAYS terran the strongest.. WHAT the f*ck, and WHY the hell ??
Like if they even did some effort to balance all that.. Cyclone does like 50 dps and Herc has like 200hp ?, W.T.F.
Why not being able to have a proper or a close to the idea what would be the game like showmatch instead of a one-sided obliterate-fest ?
No they didn't balance that, the beta isn't even out. Stop with this senseless whining.
This. Settle the shit-balls down. I swear even if Blizzard anounced that the exansion would come with one free hand-job from Jessica Alba people would still complain
On November 09 2014 13:05 VArsovskiSC wrote: Well now I get why everyone was b*tching about the Cyclone..
I mean - Terran DISGUSTINGLY OP - AGAIN ??
Seriously - someone check DKim's mental health ?
Why ALWAYS it's the Terran that has to be FREAKIN OP in the development stage ?
WHAT ON EARTH do they get by making Terran be the biggest disgusting thing ever existed, and then have to hit like 30 nerfs for scrubs to say that Terran doesn't get what they should or whatever ?
WHY THE HELL did the Photon Overcharge stop shooting air AND Banshees get increased range
WHY THE HELL doesn't the Disruptor hit air - thought those were a new way to deal with the Mutalisks
I mean W.T.F. - so I guess out of the new races - only Zerg seems fine ATM
lol are you playing the game? who gives a fuck if its balanced in development
if it were already balanced it wouldnt need "development" it would already be developed and released... i swear people just bitch for the sake of bitching
Sorry dude, BUT - disgusts me to see ALWAYS terran the strongest.. WHAT the f*ck, and WHY the hell ??
Like if they even did some effort to balance all that.. Cyclone does like 50 dps and Herc has like 200hp ?, W.T.F.
Why not being able to have a proper or a close to the idea what would be the game like showmatch instead of a one-sided obliterate-fest ?
No they didn't balance that, the beta isn't even out. Stop with this senseless whining.
This. Settle the shit-balls down. I swear even if Blizzard anounced that the exansion would come with one free hand-job from Jessica Alba people would still complain
On November 09 2014 13:05 VArsovskiSC wrote: Well now I get why everyone was b*tching about the Cyclone..
I mean - Terran DISGUSTINGLY OP - AGAIN ??
Seriously - someone check DKim's mental health ?
Why ALWAYS it's the Terran that has to be FREAKIN OP in the development stage ?
WHAT ON EARTH do they get by making Terran be the biggest disgusting thing ever existed, and then have to hit like 30 nerfs for scrubs to say that Terran doesn't get what they should or whatever ?
WHY THE HELL did the Photon Overcharge stop shooting air AND Banshees get increased range
WHY THE HELL doesn't the Disruptor hit air - thought those were a new way to deal with the Mutalisks
I mean W.T.F. - so I guess out of the new races - only Zerg seems fine ATM
lol are you playing the game? who gives a fuck if its balanced in development
if it were already balanced it wouldnt need "development" it would already be developed and released... i swear people just bitch for the sake of bitching
Sorry dude, BUT - disgusts me to see ALWAYS terran the strongest.. WHAT the f*ck, and WHY the hell ??
Like if they even did some effort to balance all that.. Cyclone does like 50 dps and Herc has like 200hp ?, W.T.F.
Why not being able to have a proper or a close to the idea what would be the game like showmatch instead of a one-sided obliterate-fest ?
No they didn't balance that, the beta isn't even out. Stop with this senseless whining.
This. Settle the shit-balls down. I swear even if Blizzard anounced that the exansion would come with one free hand-job from Jessica Alba people would still complain
kids these days probably don't even know who jessica alba is Sin City was 9 years ago (and the stuff before, well even before that :D)
Liking a lot of these ideas, especially the changes to the base sizes/mineral contents. I'll wait to form an opinion on the units, too much crazy stuff to digest at once! The micro-intensive stuff does seem cool, though. I'm just concerned that these changes will make engagements end even faster than before. So many of these units are meant to kill/damage a lot of stuff, really fast. Even nowadays, there's so much buildup for an engagement that lasts like 15 seconds - not very good for spectators. Adding even more kill-stuff-fast units (every race has a "mine" now, for example) might be a bit too much imo.
My fear is that they are giving terran early game units that need a specific counters. This will be a nightmare to balance because terran will have billion options for aggressive early game pushes that can simply kill zerg.
On November 09 2014 11:05 TzTz wrote: Please give is micro and prolonged battles like this ... But at least they say they wanna focus on it. Just sad they dont wanna look at deeper things then trying to do it with MORE fancy units and not changing the basic flaws in the engine...
This battle is superior entertainment to anything I remember seeing in SC2 ever. Even just on a visual and audio level, it's more stimulating. So many good moments and games from pro BW.
Edit: I like how the Dragoons had to take large, deliberate steps. There isn't anything like that in SC2 except for spine crawler repositioning.
On November 09 2014 13:05 VArsovskiSC wrote: Well now I get why everyone was b*tching about the Cyclone..
I mean - Terran DISGUSTINGLY OP - AGAIN ??
Seriously - someone check DKim's mental health ?
Why ALWAYS it's the Terran that has to be FREAKIN OP in the development stage ?
WHAT ON EARTH do they get by making Terran be the biggest disgusting thing ever existed, and then have to hit like 30 nerfs for scrubs to say that Terran doesn't get what they should or whatever ?
WHY THE HELL did the Photon Overcharge stop shooting air AND Banshees get increased range
WHY THE HELL doesn't the Disruptor hit air - thought those were a new way to deal with the Mutalisks
I mean W.T.F. - so I guess out of the new races - only Zerg seems fine ATM
lol are you playing the game? who gives a fuck if its balanced in development
if it were already balanced it wouldnt need "development" it would already be developed and released... i swear people just bitch for the sake of bitching
Sorry dude, BUT - disgusts me to see ALWAYS terran the strongest.. WHAT the f*ck, and WHY the hell ??
Like if they even did some effort to balance all that.. Cyclone does like 50 dps and Herc has like 200hp ?, W.T.F.
Why not being able to have a proper or a close to the idea what would be the game like showmatch instead of a one-sided obliterate-fest ?
No they didn't balance that, the beta isn't even out. Stop with this senseless whining.
This. Settle the shit-balls down. I swear even if Blizzard anounced that the exansion would come with one free hand-job from Jessica Alba people would still complain
They've fucked up twice so far. It's not like their recent record has been fantastic. They're making the same mistakes over and over again.
Can't believe so many people here like the Cyclone. Game we deserve no the game we need
edit: Bisu is a god. edit2: Another plug for bringing reavers back please.
On November 09 2014 09:23 404AlphaSquad wrote: [quote]
So you want to say that there havent been any complaints about HOTS? Thats laughable.
No.
I want to say that you're overstating them. Which is what I wrote.
Do you even understand English?
Perhaps its only the nostalgia talk from you. If you like HOTS so much continue playing it. Let the rest play what they want. And yes you should be happy because you can still continue to play HOTS if you dont like change.
It's not just about playing the game. I also really enjoy watching the game. It's pretty clear that the pro-scene will move on to LotV when it comes out and so telling me that I can still play HotS is very silly.
So no I am not happy. I think the current announced changes and units are a travesty.
What part of the following do you consider a travesty? - Lurkers, one of the best-designed units in BW? - Ravagers, an early game answer to Force Fields, with a micro-intensive ability that allows for counterplay? - Viable Carriers and Nydus Worms? - Removal of a redundant spell from the Oracle for a more interesting one? - Swarm Hosts that no longer draw out games into stalemates? - New units and abilities that can make for more interesting Mech play from Terran?
What is your issue here? Keep in mind that balance whine isn't valid since these units haven't gone through beta testing and revision yet.
What part of "currently announced" don't you understand?
Of course the units are going to go through beta testing and revision. I'm saying that what's announced so far is terrible. For example, what the fuck is the Cyclone? It's clearly imbalanced. How anyone at Blizzard thought it was okay to show that unit in its current state makes me have a very small/non-existent amount of faith in their ability to do anything properly. Yes, it could and probably will be changed, but I said "currently announced" for a reason.
The units aren't the main problem though. That Blizzard want to change core mechanics like the number of workers you start with or how fast bases turnover their economy worries me greatly. I like how economy currently works in SC2 a lot. I think the flow works well, I think that a lot of playstyles are viable and that the game tends to be very exciting despite constant (massively incorrect) whining about people "turtling" on three bases. I wouldn't watch it if I didn't find it exciting, and if anyone else here does watch/is passionate about current SC2 without finding it exciting then I'd question their sanity slightly.
Frankly, it feels like Blizzard are trying to get new players into the game with flashy bullshit at the expense of people who like how it is now and I don't like that. It's a slap in the face to those who are passionate about the game in its current state.
Read the last sentence of my previous post again and then stop crying.
Also do yourself a favor and search up the discussions on the differences between the SC2 economy and the BW economy. One is clearly superior in terms of giving us better games, and you get two guesses as to which it is, and it's not SC2. The new LotV economy attempts to address that. It also pretty much fails completely, but the point is that an attempt is being made by Blizzard. The point of these changes is that they're listening. If we can get them on the right track, we might actually finally have the game SC2 should have been from the outset.
I prefer everything in SC2 to everything in BW.
Well that's already a red flag that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry to break it to you that not everyone in the world thinks that BW is the best RTS ever made.
Yes, only the ones who have a good understanding of game design think that. You can cry elitist all you want but it doesn't change the facts.
Besides, what was it that you said to me earlier about how if I preferred HotS to LotV then I should just keep playing HotS?
That wasn't me, that was one of the literally 4 or 5 other people in this thread who also think you're being ridiculous.
I prefer SC2 over BW so I don't know what I'm talking about. Okay lol.
Not worth engaging you with that attitude. If you're not even that passionate about SC2 compared to BW then why tell someone who is that they should be happy that something they're passionate about is being (in their eyes) destroyed?
PS: I'd already edited my post about it being 404AlphaSquad and not you who I was referring to re: that quote. The whole quote chain was 404AlphaSquad and not you, which I didn't realise until I hit post. Silly thing to do but whatever.
the problem with those that think that BW isn't the best is that , all of them never played it at serious level, how can i take them seriously then?
On November 09 2014 13:05 VArsovskiSC wrote: Well now I get why everyone was b*tching about the Cyclone..
I mean - Terran DISGUSTINGLY OP - AGAIN ??
Seriously - someone check DKim's mental health ?
Why ALWAYS it's the Terran that has to be FREAKIN OP in the development stage ?
WHAT ON EARTH do they get by making Terran be the biggest disgusting thing ever existed, and then have to hit like 30 nerfs for scrubs to say that Terran doesn't get what they should or whatever ?
WHY THE HELL did the Photon Overcharge stop shooting air AND Banshees get increased range
WHY THE HELL doesn't the Disruptor hit air - thought those were a new way to deal with the Mutalisks
I mean W.T.F. - so I guess out of the new races - only Zerg seems fine ATM
lol are you playing the game? who gives a fuck if its balanced in development
if it were already balanced it wouldnt need "development" it would already be developed and released... i swear people just bitch for the sake of bitching
Sorry dude, BUT - disgusts me to see ALWAYS terran the strongest.. WHAT the f*ck, and WHY the hell ??
Like if they even did some effort to balance all that.. Cyclone does like 50 dps and Herc has like 200hp ?, W.T.F.
Why not being able to have a proper or a close to the idea what would be the game like showmatch instead of a one-sided obliterate-fest ?
No they didn't balance that, the beta isn't even out. Stop with this senseless whining.
This. Settle the shit-balls down. I swear even if Blizzard anounced that the exansion would come with one free hand-job from Jessica Alba people would still complain
They've fucked up twice so far. It's not like their recent record has been fantastic. They're making the same mistakes over and over again.
edit: Bisu is a god. edit2: Another plug for bringing reavers back please.
but balance should not be the thing they should be focussing on right now(balance also has been relatively good on average), good unit design should be, i would need to see more games if that is a succes, although the changes to existing units certainly seem like improvements(except possibly the thor change not sure how that would play out in real games), i think i like most new units, not completely sure about cyclones as its relatively vanilla, i love the reduction in the total minerals in bases(although i would have prefered a change that mining effeciency reduces with the number of workers) but balance is the thing that i dont think should be the main focus point, which should be about design not development(how unit counters work should be relevant though because it is integral to matchup design, but i think i would need to see more games to see how that works).
On November 09 2014 13:05 VArsovskiSC wrote: Well now I get why everyone was b*tching about the Cyclone..
I mean - Terran DISGUSTINGLY OP - AGAIN ??
Seriously - someone check DKim's mental health ?
Why ALWAYS it's the Terran that has to be FREAKIN OP in the development stage ?
WHAT ON EARTH do they get by making Terran be the biggest disgusting thing ever existed, and then have to hit like 30 nerfs for scrubs to say that Terran doesn't get what they should or whatever ?
WHY THE HELL did the Photon Overcharge stop shooting air AND Banshees get increased range
WHY THE HELL doesn't the Disruptor hit air - thought those were a new way to deal with the Mutalisks
I mean W.T.F. - so I guess out of the new races - only Zerg seems fine ATM
lol are you playing the game? who gives a fuck if its balanced in development
if it were already balanced it wouldnt need "development" it would already be developed and released... i swear people just bitch for the sake of bitching
Sorry dude, BUT - disgusts me to see ALWAYS terran the strongest.. WHAT the f*ck, and WHY the hell ??
Like if they even did some effort to balance all that.. Cyclone does like 50 dps and Herc has like 200hp ?, W.T.F.
Why not being able to have a proper or a close to the idea what would be the game like showmatch instead of a one-sided obliterate-fest ?
No they didn't balance that, the beta isn't even out. Stop with this senseless whining.
This. Settle the shit-balls down. I swear even if Blizzard anounced that the exansion would come with one free hand-job from Jessica Alba people would still complain
They've fucked up twice so far. It's not like their recent record has been fantastic. They're making the same mistakes over and over again.
Can't believe so many people here like the Cyclone. Game we deserve no the game we need
edit: Bisu is a god. edit2: Another plug for bringing reavers back please.
Actually they fucked up THREE TIMES now.. The sad story is that it took a YEAR and a half to balance things in WoL and another 8 months to counter-balance.. For the first 1.5 years Terran was OP (sorry, but true story) back in WoL followed by 8 months of Infestor/BLord dominance
Let's just remember all the OP AF things that took longer than 3 GSL seasons, Blizzcon (most-indicative) and another 2 GSL seasons after that to balance:
#1 - Rax building time #2 - fences on the ramp down on the nat so 2 pylons or a supply depot and a bunker didn't screw up Zerg completely #3 - This is the most disturbing one - GHOST took more than a year for it to be balanced/nerfed, and when it happened - they got overnerfed as well (just remember the most disgusting MVP vs NesTea ever game in the finals of the first Blizzcon on lost Temple ever played)
There were things like 4 gate and Roaches but that took less than 2 months to balance, and they took - AGAIN - YEAR AND A HALF to balance/nerf Terran..
I mean COME ON - it's VERY DISTURBING that the Dev. team failed the broken-ness of the Terran race.. THREE TIMES already
Taking those things into consideration - LEGIT is the concern.. Like - it's obvious that they didn't even TRY to do that.. I don't want for the Cyclone to become the Warhound AGAIN - w.t.f.
- distinguish players who can manage their units effectively due to its high skill-ceiling and micro requirements
- Create more significant counter-micro opportunities and lessen situations where one player’s micro performance is more important than the other
it say that the cyclone should have 5 range and lurker 6, but if you look at the showmatch you can see that the lurker is outranged...????
Cyclone has 2 ranges - the first one is the lock-on/latch range.. The second one is the unleash/max range..
My problem with the cyclone is it's very high mobility (though not the biggest problem), but HP and Damage of it are W.T.F.. like 5 Stalkers right now can't shoot that before it kills all of them.. Same problem with the Herc - it outclashes 2 Queens (nearly), in other words - 2 Queens may shoot at it and it will kill one of them 100% (and perhaps bring the other Queen near it's death)
You really have to be either blind or have to have a "3rd mindset" to not see that
On November 09 2014 18:07 VArsovskiSC wrote: You really have to be either blind or have to have a "3rd mindset" to not see that
Or maybe you have to not be blind and see (and listen when they spoke) that this is a pre-alpha and they know the current units are, to quote them, crazy. They asked for feedback, yours is apparently that cyclone and merc are too strong right now. Yes. We saw that. They saw that. Everyone saw that. Feedback given. Next.
Getting all riled up for dozens of pages about the balance and stats of units that may not even still be there when the beta starts is... not necessary.
We most probably won't see anything more about LotV until the beta next year. Do you intend to keep whining about temporary units and stats until then? Because if not, you can just stop now. It will have the same effect.
Whin.... er sorry, theorycrafting about hypothetical changes on current units is already useless most of the time. But this... I don't even know if there's a word for it.
The game is unbalanced for beta and that's expected. I hope they make the ground units clump a bit less and balance it around that. Now is the time for drastic change, right? I'm sure it'd make surrounding a cyclone easier, for instance. It also reduces the effectiveness of death ball style play.
On November 09 2014 18:43 Krogan wrote: I hope that roach morph is at hive at least, I know beta isn't even here yet but how exactly does toss stop a roach max in lotv?
Those are the Bunker-bust unit.. Hive ? - no way, in fact GLAD that finally Zerg has a decent Hatch tech
Toss has the Oracle Wards, still have MSC, and have Disruptors for the AoE
PvZ is not a current concern IMO, Terran BY FAR is TBH
I think the ravager is probably the most interesting unit in the expansion by far, though i don't like the FF breaking of it which will probably lead to all sorts of annoying all-in busts - the nature of the unit allows it to attack safely past FFs anyway, so it seems a bit excessive against toss. The lurker I like, but might be hard to use efficiently without something like dark swarm.
Toss gets another damn orb. I hate the design, feels like the replicator thing they showed for hots, wish the design department showed some innovation. It also seems like just another worker harass unit, seems fairly simple to micro against.
Herc fills the same role as the hellbat, they just added forward blink to it. Lazy design. Cyclone would be okay if it required vulture micro instead of autotarget. Why on earth they add something so devoid of micro is beyond me.
Siege tank changes won't go through I think, it's too good. And I had really hoped for a removal of the thor instead of making them even more stupid.
Overall I think zerg got most fun changes, toss got nothing and terran got the least thought through ones.
Sin City was 9 years ago (and the stuff before, well even before that :D)
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