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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On November 03 2014 05:21 ( bush wrote: I don't know how can anyone complain about TvZ right now... that matchup is perfectly fine if you compare it with TvP. If you ask me, I never liked TvZ in HotS. Its all about hit or miss from wm & banelings. Generally too much units in TvZ with many marines & lings. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8246 Posts
On November 03 2014 05:15 Dodgin wrote: I'm not going to bother listing off the 10's of all ins or early pressure builds from both races, if you're expecting some kind of " early game " when both players are playing greedy macro then I don't know what to tell you. The builds are available, like a 10 pool then resume Droning for example, but they are rarely done. Of course there are reasons for a Zerg to play standard instead of 10 pool or even 15 Pool 15 Hatch or whatever, but I would just like the game to be a bit more diverse with the maps encouraging such diversity. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17471 Posts
On November 03 2014 02:51 TheDwf wrote: I love Blizzard, I love the game, but it's obviously bad, we need more, look at yesterday, Taeja, Life, soO are there but where is the show? Where is the crowd? Where is the money? Everything is cheap, 5 years later... WCS should be the ultimate tournament, the most imposing, the most beautiful... Even the schedule was not good (yesterday it started at 6pm to 8 am for EU, after 3 am for EU we were 35k...) and we all know that EU is watching Starcraft more than US... Really I mean so many guys paid to think and no one makes the right call... I really love Blizzard and Starcraft 2 but no, it's not a good little step, nobody has time, Blizzard needs do step it up for the community, not buy time like that." The game is fine. Blizzard does not know how to create excitement around a competitive live event. Blizzard does not know how to "create stars". It is a fine art that few have mastered. I do not think Blizzard is even focused on "creating stars". Its ironic that the best event promotion and star creation occurred when Blizzard basically surrendered its rights to Brood War and several South Korean promoters were given carte blanche due to Blizzard's disinterest and total focus on WoW. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 03 2014 05:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The game is fine. Blizzard does not know how to create excitement around a competitive live event. Blizzard does not know how to "create stars". It is a fine art that few have mastered. I do not think Blizzard is even focused on "creating stars". Its ironic that the best event promotion and star creation occurred when Blizzard basically surrendered its rights to Brood War and several South Korean promoters were given carte blanche due to Blizzard's disinterest and total focus on WoW. Just to clarify, the initial message is not mine.  | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On November 03 2014 03:29 creamyturtle wrote: well this sucks. they announce we will have region-locked WCS this year, and everyone's happy that the foreign scene will get real promotion. then they just pull the rug out from under us, and we are left with 8 NA slots. pretty freakin' lame. i understand the viewership isn't there, but it seemed like Blizzard had enough cash to prop up WCS on its own. i guess they pussied out, and here we are What? Why would Blizzard fund a tournament with a prize pool of $100,000, when it gets a petty viewership of 5000-15000 on most days. I just hate people blame Blizzard for this... This is purely because there is not enough popularity to support tournaments like these. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
The best non Korean Toss player pretty much quit due to swarm hosts, and no one at Blizzard even wants to talk about the unit as if there is a problem. It could be the worst unit ever created in a RTS and all you get is fluff, everything is good talk. There's no accountability. Why would anyone want to play SC 2 when they could play a popular team game? I mean, what is WCS "NA" now? 16 paying spots in NA. And, we still have to pretend that some Koreans are foreigners. So, in reality, it's more like 13 spots. And, since they do nothing about hacking, it's closer to 10 spots for legit players. What is that, two teams qualifying in LoL? Without free to play, it's hard to feel like there is any hope. | ||
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creamyturtle
United States487 Posts
On November 03 2014 06:42 playa wrote: Playing SC 2 as a non Korean is a horrible experience. I'm not into LoL, but I've stumbled upon "road to worlds." They make playing the game seem cool. They make it seem rewarding. Even though you got the sense that Koreans are way better at the game, they still have a lot of fans who could care less. In SC 2, it's just like omg, why aren't you better than this guy who was a pro in BW, playing 24/7, despite only enabling a small amount of non Koreans to even try to play full time. The best non Korean Toss player pretty much quit due to swarm hosts, and no one at Blizzard even wants to talk about the unit as if there is a problem. It could be the worst unit ever created in a RTS and all you get is fluff, everything is good talk. There's no accountability. Why would anyone want to play SC 2 when they could play a popular team game? I mean, what is WCS "NA" now? 16 paying spots in NA. And, we still have to pretend that some Koreans are foreigners. So, in reality, it's more like 15 spots. And, since they do nothing about hacking, it's closer to 10 spots for legit players. What is that, two teams qualifying in LoL? Without free to play, it's hard to feel like there is any hope. yeah, with the viewership where it is at this point, they might as well switch to F2P. for LOTV would be nice | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On November 03 2014 06:42 playa wrote: Playing SC 2 as a non Korean is a horrible experience. I'm not into LoL, but I've stumbled upon "road to worlds." They make playing the game seem cool. They make it seem rewarding. Even though you got the sense that Koreans are way better at the game, they still have a lot of fans who could care less. In SC 2, it's just like omg, why aren't you better than this guy who was a pro in BW, playing 24/7, despite only enabling a small amount of non Koreans to even try to play full time. The best non Korean Toss player pretty much quit due to swarm hosts, and no one at Blizzard even wants to talk about the unit as if there is a problem. It could be the worst unit ever created in a RTS and all you get is fluff, everything is good talk. There's no accountability. Why would anyone want to play SC 2 when they could play a popular team game? I mean, what is WCS "NA" now? 16 paying spots in NA. And, we still have to pretend that some Koreans are foreigners. So, in reality, it's more like 15 spots. And, since they do nothing about hacking, it's closer to 10 spots for legit players. What is that, two teams qualifying in LoL? Without free to play, it's hard to feel like there is any hope. thats why they added swarm hosts. because if both players make swarm host then it looks like a moba and new players will be drawn to sc2. we might as well call for the removal of david kim and hire avilo as the balance designer while we're at it and pay TSM to stream 4v4 teams on the ladder and ban all koreans from competition. it is best for the popularity of starcraft. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On November 03 2014 07:03 Doodsmack wrote: It is pretty funny that they teased us with region lock and then halved the number of spots available for foreigners lol. I don't see the issue. It's not like I can think of more than 8 NA players who play SC2 for more than 5 hours a day. I don't think the community is able to sustain 64 players either, so nothing is lost. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 03 2014 07:03 Doodsmack wrote: It is pretty funny that they teased us with region lock and then halved the number of spots available for foreigners lol. In practice, this change does not hurt foreigners. Because the money paid out in WCS has doubled, one season in Premier now pays as much (or more, assuming distribution stays the same) as two seasons did this year. With the removal of essentially all Koreans but three or four, more spots are open for foreigners to make it into Premier. It may look like a net loss on paper, but unless a lot of Koreans manage to secure visas such as Violet's (and they won't), the foreign scene will receive more money through WCS in 2015 than in 2014. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On November 03 2014 07:11 Zealously wrote: In practice, this change does not hurt foreigners. Because the money paid out in WCS has doubled, one season in Premier now pays as much (or more, assuming distribution stays the same) as two seasons did this year. With the removal of essentially all Koreans but three or four, more spots are open for foreigners to make it into Premier. It may look like a net loss on paper, but unless a lot of Koreans manage to secure visas such as Violet's (and they won't), the foreign scene will receive more money through WCS in 2015 than in 2014. Exactly this, a lot more money even. Around 280K are up for grabs every season, while foreigners didn't even make 120k in WCS S3 this year. So even if Koreans like Polt and Violet were to take 50k, foreigners will still receive more than 110k more than before. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
But i still dislike this system so much: In 2013 and 2014 there was a development, mostly in Europe, that the players came to the audiance: While Blizzard aimed for a world wide audience, the players where mostly based in korea ( and the action with its 6 or more gsl per year ). Then the WCS System changed it, Koreans came to Europe from the start of 2013, because they could not participe in WCS EU due to the lag between Korea and EU. Due to the lag these koreans did their daily training on the Europeen server, or at least some, wheen they did not want to train with the big pings. The competition raised in Europe, the foreigners could become better and better due to the daily competition with the EU-Koreans. While in 2012 Huks and Naniwas had to go to Korea, leave their natural audiance to competete with the strong players, strong players where now where the audience was. Players like Snute or Bunny could become top players without living and bootcamping long time in korea, they could stay with their fans and become better. Shure these Koreans took out a large potion of money of the Europeen scene, without them there were no pressure to become better, to train harder and to raise the gaminglevel of the foreigners. Now all these Koreans get a hard Bitchslap. "You left you home to be with your fans, to play where the global audience is and to raise the competition, now we have dropping viewers because you do not do enough HÜPE, get the fuck out of here" Whats gonna happen now: While in the new WCS foreigners who dedicate only a small time per week for SC II ( but have a decent skill lvl ) can take out at least 2k$ in the challanger 3 time per season, while the strong players lose a lot of competition and if they want to become stronger, they have to go back to korea instead. WCS will left with a hand full of smart koreans who have the proper visa ( which is not that hard if you trick the system for example here in germany because of the student visa ) and these smart koreans gonna play it out in Ro4 or Ro8 season. But when these players live in NA, they still play on Kr Server, they still do not train with europeens. And when we are honest, even NA Players do not train on NA Server if their ping is okay. I am mostly talking about the changes that the europeen scene will have, shure it was not okay that players like Taeja or Pigbaby could just play all games till the offline games from korea, book a flight and pick up a large stack of eazy money while tech. living in Korea the whole year. But this was not the case in Europe and the Europeens need Koreans to become stronger and have the competition. Maybe we will see again a foreigner at WCS Finals 2015, but he will get screwed again, when he can not train during the year with stronger players. And that is the thing that makes you stronger, playing against stronger players, learning of your mistakes and their gains. Now we will have 2015 and a refocus on Korea like 2011 and 2012. No more very strong players in WCS, but Korean Events during the week start when people work, go to school or the university. And for the NAs it is even worse with starts between 2am and 6am. Blizzard wants a global audience, but they will not achieve it with sending the stronger player back to the small asien nation which has by far the best players who deliver the best games during the wrong times. If i had to change something, i would have forced the players to stay where they compete in the WCS system, but accepting all forms of visa except the standard tourist visa and enforced every competer in WCS to speak english at least acceptable for interviews. Thus we wouldnt have the akward translation situations anymore in WCS EU and NA, no travel masters and we could enforce the players to play on the server of their WCS Regions. Without the languege gap, the HÜPE could be created, the koreans would be more except by the fans. And yeah, no more finals in front of 20 men in small flats called "ESL Studios". Ask IEM Katoviece how to do finals. And one last note for the visa thing and a hint for koreans: You are allowed to play with your student visa. In my University in Germany you could start your studies, never write any test, never visit anything there and get dropped out after two years. If you have your high school degree, you can start studies here, catch your student visa at the german embassy, play in WCS 2 years, win alot of money against easy opponents and then drop out of university and leave Europe again. Sorry but i hate this new WCS system so much, that i hope it gets abused hard. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On November 03 2014 07:11 Zealously wrote: In practice, this change does not hurt foreigners. Because the money paid out in WCS has doubled, one season in Premier now pays as much (or more, assuming distribution stays the same) as two seasons did this year. With the removal of essentially all Koreans but three or four, more spots are open for foreigners to make it into Premier. It may look like a net loss on paper, but unless a lot of Koreans manage to secure visas such as Violet's (and they won't), the foreign scene will receive more money through WCS in 2015 than in 2014. The prize money thing is definitely good, but it's less additional spots available in premier than the initial region lock tease would have led us to believe. | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
So POlt, Violet, Balloon any others? can get a student visa, maybe for a cheap community college or something (any country where its easiest, Macau, Africa, Middle East etc)? | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On November 03 2014 12:08 mikumegurine wrote: so Balloon has a student visa? So POlt, Violet, Balloon any others? can get a student visa, maybe for a cheap community college or something (any country where its easiest, Macau, Africa, Middle East etc)? I'm not sure a korean is going to be moving to a random African country to get a student visa at a shitty college so they can play in WCS. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On November 03 2014 07:11 Zealously wrote: In practice, this change does not hurt foreigners. Because the money paid out in WCS has doubled, one season in Premier now pays as much (or more, assuming distribution stays the same) as two seasons did this year. With the removal of essentially all Koreans but three or four, more spots are open for foreigners to make it into Premier. It may look like a net loss on paper, but unless a lot of Koreans manage to secure visas such as Violet's (and they won't), the foreign scene will receive more money through WCS in 2015 than in 2014. While the money, which is very very important, is helpful the amount of WCS points for foreigners went down. If I counted correctly there were 38 foreigners between the two regions (and Sen who arguably would have been in premier had he not met scarlett) in premier league. If the point structure remains the same, which I don't remember seeing yet, then that means that 6-7 foreigners of this season wouldn't have gotten the substantial amount of WCS points that being in premier results in. I can see this current structure making it even harder for foreigners to get into Blizzcon at the end of the year. With only one region of WCS there will be a few foreigners with a large chunk of WCS points, but then a drop off because DH/IEM/ect are still going to have mostly koreans gaining the high number of points. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On November 03 2014 11:58 Doodsmack wrote: The prize money thing is definitely good, but it's less additional spots available in premier than the initial region lock tease would have led us to believe. ok so? i'm not seeing how that matters. prize money is more important for foreign talent to develop than the "prestige" of being in a league called premier. you need to eat and pay your bills, then you can worry about whether you can put "premier" on your list of accomplishments On November 03 2014 13:04 chipmonklord17 wrote: While the money, which is very very important, is helpful the amount of WCS points for foreigners went down. If I counted correctly there were 38 foreigners between the two regions (and Sen who arguably would have been in premier had he not met scarlett) in premier league. If the point structure remains the same, which I don't remember seeing yet, then that means that 6-7 foreigners of this season wouldn't have gotten the substantial amount of WCS points that being in premier results in. I can see this current structure making it even harder for foreigners to get into Blizzcon at the end of the year. With only one region of WCS there will be a few foreigners with a large chunk of WCS points, but then a drop off because DH/IEM/ect are still going to have mostly koreans gaining the high number of points. foreigners making it to blizzcon shouldn't even be an issue because the number of foreigners who even had a remote chance is way smaller than the number of premier spots | ||
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lolmlg
619 Posts
On November 03 2014 05:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The game is fine. Blizzard does not know how to create excitement around a competitive live event. Blizzard does not know how to "create stars". It is a fine art that few have mastered. I do not think Blizzard is even focused on "creating stars". Its ironic that the best event promotion and star creation occurred when Blizzard basically surrendered its rights to Brood War and several South Korean promoters were given carte blanche due to Blizzard's disinterest and total focus on WoW. There's honestly nothing ironic or surprising about that. Anyone who didn't see that coming before SC2 launched was either naive or had ulterior motives. The plan Blizzard had was to make as much money as possible in the short term by exploiting the reputation of Brood War and forcing the player base to transition to the new game. Their entire partnership with GOM was intended to be disruptive. They weren't partnering with the most competent, experienced team. All they wanted to do was create conflict. These tournaments only benefit Blizzard to the extent that they advertise Blizzard products and foster good will among people who are likely to buy Blizzard products. They don't need to be great. There's no incentive for Blizzard to make them great. They just need to be passable. We're deep in the realm of diminishing returns here. | ||
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