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On November 03 2014 02:38 Dexp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 00:11 Anoss wrote:On November 02 2014 06:52 Dexp wrote:On November 02 2014 06:40 Anoss wrote:On November 02 2014 06:18 Dexp wrote:You know David Kim's team just does design and balance changes and i don't think design/balance are the biggest issues in Starcraft actually. But i trust Blizzard, they will do a great job.
Oh and for more shows and bigger events, i don't know if you read it clearly but now RO32 is played offline and Ro16 will be play in a venue. I think design/balance is an issue, games are pretty the same, we need the last unit to have a better dynamics in game. Ro32 offline is good you right, but it will not change the WCS at all.. its a small change, a good one, but not enough imo, its just 1 different day, all the rest will be the same, and that's not fixing the pro player problem, only 32 player will be sur to have money, Blizzard need to invest on the other too. I never said that Design/balance wasn't an issue, it is definitely with long Swarm host game, Tempest, Widow mine and you are right, the games are pretty much the same every time. I still don't think that balance/design is the BIGGEST issues of Starcraft. RO32 offline might be a small change but RO16 with a real scene and a real crowd is pretty huge i think. I also think it will be harder for up and coming player and lower skill progamer to make money out of Starcraft. There is good and bad in these changes, but overall, i think it's a step in the right direction. "A step in the right direction" a very little step in my opinion.. look at yesterday, Taeja VS Soo 35k viewers.. that's our knew RO32 offline ! just one day like this will change anything.. It's kind of boring to look Blizzard act like they have time, only Blizzard have time, i work with the game (youtube, casting etc) all the people have scared, they is no view anymore, cause game are same, pro player can't focus on the game with not a lot of tournament, and we wait 1 year for just, one day off more, in same condition as yesterday.. i love Blizzard, i love the game, but it's obviously bad, we need more, look at yesterday, Taeja, Life, Soo but where is the show ? where is the Crowd ? where is the money ?? all is cheap, 5 years later... WCS should be the ultimate tournament, the most imposant, most beautifull, even the time who its play its not good ( Yesterday its start 6pm to 8 am for EU, after 3 am for EU we were 35k...) and we all know that EU is more watching Starcraft than US... really i mean so many guys pay to think and no one make the right call.. i really love Blizzard and Starcraft 2 but no, its not a good little step, nobody has time, Blizzard neet do pull it up the community, not save time like that *mod edit: fixed broken quote tree, informed user* I'm sorry Anoss, i don't understand anything of what you are saying, i know you are French ( Je parle Français aussi ) but don't try to argue in English if you don't have good knowledge of it. I would love to debate in French with you tough. 
I think he's basically saying that Blizzard is bad at organizing WCS (not investing enough into BlizzCon, bad organization at BlizzCon concerning schedule inadapted for Europeans and such), that the SC2 scene is dying (no viewers/no money/no tournaments/no crowds), and that the new WCS system sucks. I don't get the part about time though, I think it means that Blizzard needs to act quickly to try to save SC2 (?)
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On November 03 2014 00:11 Anoss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2014 06:52 Dexp wrote:On November 02 2014 06:40 Anoss wrote:On November 02 2014 06:18 Dexp wrote:You know David Kim's team just does design and balance changes and i don't think design/balance are the biggest issues in Starcraft actually. But i trust Blizzard, they will do a great job.
Oh and for more shows and bigger events, i don't know if you read it clearly but now RO32 is played offline and Ro16 will be play in a venue. I think design/balance is an issue, games are pretty the same, we need the last unit to have a better dynamics in game. Ro32 offline is good you right, but it will not change the WCS at all.. its a small change, a good one, but not enough imo, its just 1 different day, all the rest will be the same, and that's not fixing the pro player problem, only 32 player will be sur to have money, Blizzard need to invest on the other too. I never said that Design/balance wasn't an issue, it is definitely with long Swarm host game, Tempest, Widow mine and you are right, the games are pretty much the same every time. I still don't think that balance/design is the BIGGEST issues of Starcraft. RO32 offline might be a small change but RO16 with a real scene and a real crowd is pretty huge i think. I also think it will be harder for up and coming player and lower skill progamer to make money out of Starcraft. There is good and bad in these changes, but overall, i think it's a step in the right direction. "A step in the right direction" a very little step in my opinion.. look at yesterday, Taeja VS Soo 35k viewers.. that's our knew RO32 offline ! just one day like this will change anything.. It's kind of boring to look Blizzard act like they have time, only Blizzard have time, i work with the game (youtube, casting etc) all the people have scared, they is no view anymore, cause game are same, pro player can't focus on the game with not a lot of tournament, and we wait 1 year for just, one day off more, in same condition as yesterday.. i love Blizzard, i love the game, but it's obviously bad, we need more, look at yesterday, Taeja, Life, Soo but where is the show ? where is the Crowd ? where is the money ?? all is cheap, 5 years later... WCS should be the ultimate tournament, the most imposant, most beautifull, even the time who its play its not good ( Yesterday its start 6pm to 8 am for EU, after 3 am for EU we were 35k...) and we all know that EU is more watching Starcraft than US... really i mean so many guys pay to think and no one make the right call.. i really love Blizzard and Starcraft 2 but no, its not a good little step, nobody has time, Blizzard neet do pull it up the community, not save time like that
For those who had troubles reading the post, this is what I understood of it:
"A step in the right direction" a very little step in my opinion... Look at yesterday, Taeja vs soO: 35k viewers... That's our new RO32 offline! Just one day like this will change nothing... It's kind of boring to watch Blizzard act like they have time, only Blizzard has time, I work around the game (Youtube, casting, etc.) and everyone is scared, there are no viewers anymore, because the games are the same, pro players can't focus on the game with the lack of tournament, and we wait 1 year for just one more day offline, in the same conditions as yesterday...
I love Blizzard, I love the game, but it's obviously bad, we need more, look at yesterday, Taeja, Life, soO are there but where is the show? Where is the crowd? Where is the money? Everything is cheap, 5 years later... WCS should be the ultimate tournament, the most imposing, the most beautiful... Even the schedule was not good (yesterday it started at 6pm to 8 am for EU, after 3 am for EU we were 35k...) and we all know that EU is watching Starcraft more than US... Really I mean so many guys paid to think and no one makes the right call... I really love Blizzard and Starcraft 2 but no, it's not a good little step, nobody has time, Blizzard needs do step it up for the community, not buy time like that."
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Yeah, getting the gist of the post isn't that difficult:
Taeja vs Soo = no viewers online (due to impossible broadcasting time for EU) and no viewers offline (since Blizzard didn't make an event of it). And this is supposed to be the best and most hyped tournament of the year.
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well this sucks. they announce we will have region-locked WCS this year, and everyone's happy that the foreign scene will get real promotion. then they just pull the rug out from under us, and we are left with 8 NA slots. pretty freakin' lame. i understand the viewership isn't there, but it seemed like Blizzard had enough cash to prop up WCS on its own. i guess they pussied out, and here we are
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On November 03 2014 02:35 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 00:22 Dingodile wrote:On November 02 2014 09:27 Musicus wrote:On November 02 2014 09:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
2k for challenger :O Great news, I was worried about that, but they did it right . So if the 32 players that fail to get into Premiere still get 2k that will be 64K for challenger which leaves 136k for premiere. I think that's pretty much perfect distribution. I think the prize distribution is the same in top32 except winner gets 30k instead 25k. Right now is 131k for premier league. Right I forgot the Prize money was 131k, I did my math with 100k, oops  . So that would leave 198k for Premiere league, Kim Phan confirmed that the money stays the same and none of it goes to Korea. So the prize money for Premiere league is insane now.
Very unlikely that none of it goes to korea. WCS KR had 170k and now 175k (GSL and SpoTV combined) each season. WCS NA and WCS EU had 140k each season. Now with WCS unified you have 275k per season. 275-64=211k for top32.
edit: If you ask why suddenly140 and not 131. top48=140,6k and top32=131k. place 33-48 get $600, so 16*0,6=9,6k. 140,6-9,6=131k.
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I'd hate to be "that guy," but... every time I see a T vs Z in SC 2, I'm reminded that SC 2 has a problem. Firstly, I just can't help but to think "god, I wish this was a BW T vs Z." I try to enjoy the game for what it is, but then I notice every game seems to be max vs max with "infinite" resources banked. I get that big maps play a role, but in my games, on normal maps, I notice I'm usually maxed, too.
Whenever you're able to max so easily, the game seems like it's about compositions and which race has the better late game, more so than who is the better/more skillful player. Until the game allows for more Classic moments with his oracle, I think a bigger focus should be on non Koreans and growing their scene, rather than simply offering more opportunities for the best Koreans, when the game doesn't allow them to wow the fans, anyways. Korean fans would rather watch Bisu play ladder games in BW.
As a viewer, there is a big difference between thinking, yeah I guess that guy is better than me, than thinking "jesus, I could never do that. How did he do that?" Until this game is more of the latter than the former, no one cares if Koreans are better. The likes of Naniwa, Stephano and Idra, along with the legend of Flash are going to be the driving forces.
If you're not willing to cater to the non Koreans, because "they're not good enough," then you may as well be the blame for the game being in its current state. The "best personalities" might not always be within this extremely limited number of spots. You'd think SC 2 was more of a lottery than a sport with these changes. People within SC 2 need to get off their high horse and realize that the game has gone down hill, and unless the decision makers are new on the job, they have been a big reason for it.
Ultimately, what "scares" me the most is, outside of P vs P, I think I would rather watch pro Nexus Wars. I really have to wonder what would get more viewers, given equal exposure hype. Competitive Nexus Wars or pro SC 2? Without free to play, I really don't know. It scares me to think how close the numbers would be, and, really, without any non lottery like incentive in SC 2, I'd be open to SC 2 being replaced by nexus wars. I'd probably enjoy it a lot more. I'm serious. These games look more like a worse version of nexus wars than a proper Starcraft game. I'd love to see the Korean pros form Nexus wars teams.
User was warned for this post
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On November 03 2014 03:53 playa wrote:
I'd hate to be "that guy," but... every time I see a T vs Z in SC 2, I'm reminded that SC 2 has a problem. Firstly, I just can't help but to think "god, I wish this was a BW T vs Z." I try to enjoy the game for what it is, but then I notice every game seems to be max vs max with "infinite" resources banked. I get that big maps play a role, but in my games, on normal maps, I notice I'm usually maxed, too.
Whenever you're able to max so easily, the game seems like it's about compositions and which race has the better late game, more so than who is the better/more skillful player. Until the game allows for more Classic moments with his oracle, I think a bigger focus should be on non Koreans and growing their scene, rather than simply offering more opportunities for the best Koreans, when the game doesn't allow them to wow the fans, anyways. Korean fans would rather watch Bisu play ladder games in BW.
As a viewer, there is a big difference between thinking, yeah I guess that guy is better than me, than thinking "jesus, I could never do that. How did he do that?" Until this game is more of the latter than the former, no one cares if Koreans are better. The likes of Naniwa, Stephano and Idra, along with the legend of Flash are going to be the driving forces.
If you're not willing to cater to the non Koreans, because "they're not good enough," then you may as well be the blame for the game being in its current state. The "best personalities" might not always be within this extremely limited number of spots. You'd think SC 2 was more of a lottery than a sport with these changes. People within SC 2 need to get off their high horse and realize that the game has gone down hill, and unless the decision makers are new on the job, they have been a big reason for it.
Ultimately, what "scares" me the most is, outside of P vs P, I think I would rather watch pro Nexus Wars. I really have to wonder what would get more viewers, given equal exposure hype. Competitive Nexus Wars or pro SC 2? Without free to play, I really don't know. It scares me to think how close the numbers would be, and, really, without any non lottery like incentive in SC 2, I'd be open to SC 2 being replaced by nexus wars. I'd probably enjoy it a lot more. I'm serious. These games look more like a worse version of nexus wars than a proper Starcraft game. I'd love to see the Korean pros form Nexus wars teams.
I'm going to guess you didn't watch Blizzcon yesterday
Actually, Taeja vs soO is on the rebroadcast right now. Do yourself a favor and turn it on http://www.twitch.tv/wcs
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On November 03 2014 03:56 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 03:53 playa wrote:
I'd hate to be "that guy," but... every time I see a T vs Z in SC 2, I'm reminded that SC 2 has a problem. Firstly, I just can't help but to think "god, I wish this was a BW T vs Z." I try to enjoy the game for what it is, but then I notice every game seems to be max vs max with "infinite" resources banked. I get that big maps play a role, but in my games, on normal maps, I notice I'm usually maxed, too.
Whenever you're able to max so easily, the game seems like it's about compositions and which race has the better late game, more so than who is the better/more skillful player. Until the game allows for more Classic moments with his oracle, I think a bigger focus should be on non Koreans and growing their scene, rather than simply offering more opportunities for the best Koreans, when the game doesn't allow them to wow the fans, anyways. Korean fans would rather watch Bisu play ladder games in BW.
As a viewer, there is a big difference between thinking, yeah I guess that guy is better than me, than thinking "jesus, I could never do that. How did he do that?" Until this game is more of the latter than the former, no one cares if Koreans are better. The likes of Naniwa, Stephano and Idra, along with the legend of Flash are going to be the driving forces.
If you're not willing to cater to the non Koreans, because "they're not good enough," then you may as well be the blame for the game being in its current state. The "best personalities" might not always be within this extremely limited number of spots. You'd think SC 2 was more of a lottery than a sport with these changes. People within SC 2 need to get off their high horse and realize that the game has gone down hill, and unless the decision makers are new on the job, they have been a big reason for it.
Ultimately, what "scares" me the most is, outside of P vs P, I think I would rather watch pro Nexus Wars. I really have to wonder what would get more viewers, given equal exposure hype. Competitive Nexus Wars or pro SC 2? Without free to play, I really don't know. It scares me to think how close the numbers would be, and, really, without any non lottery like incentive in SC 2, I'd be open to SC 2 being replaced by nexus wars. I'd probably enjoy it a lot more. I'm serious. These games look more like a worse version of nexus wars than a proper Starcraft game. I'd love to see the Korean pros form Nexus wars teams. I'm going to guess you didn't watch Blizzcon yesterday Actually, Taeja vs soO is on the rebroadcast right now. Do yourself a favor and turn it on http://www.twitch.tv/wcs
I did watch it. That's the problem. I wish I hadn't seen it. Max vs max, max vs max. An all-in not working versus the greediest build in the game. It makes you think... maybe that's part of why games end up max vs max... why even bother taking the risk of trying to kill your opponent. I'm going to assume you haven't watched much T vs Z in BW. There are things to miss from BW. There's nothing that seems like a positive addition in SC 2. Only missing things. That's my opinion. But, it's an honest one.
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On November 03 2014 04:02 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 03:56 Dodgin wrote:On November 03 2014 03:53 playa wrote:
I'd hate to be "that guy," but... every time I see a T vs Z in SC 2, I'm reminded that SC 2 has a problem. Firstly, I just can't help but to think "god, I wish this was a BW T vs Z." I try to enjoy the game for what it is, but then I notice every game seems to be max vs max with "infinite" resources banked. I get that big maps play a role, but in my games, on normal maps, I notice I'm usually maxed, too.
Whenever you're able to max so easily, the game seems like it's about compositions and which race has the better late game, more so than who is the better/more skillful player. Until the game allows for more Classic moments with his oracle, I think a bigger focus should be on non Koreans and growing their scene, rather than simply offering more opportunities for the best Koreans, when the game doesn't allow them to wow the fans, anyways. Korean fans would rather watch Bisu play ladder games in BW.
As a viewer, there is a big difference between thinking, yeah I guess that guy is better than me, than thinking "jesus, I could never do that. How did he do that?" Until this game is more of the latter than the former, no one cares if Koreans are better. The likes of Naniwa, Stephano and Idra, along with the legend of Flash are going to be the driving forces.
If you're not willing to cater to the non Koreans, because "they're not good enough," then you may as well be the blame for the game being in its current state. The "best personalities" might not always be within this extremely limited number of spots. You'd think SC 2 was more of a lottery than a sport with these changes. People within SC 2 need to get off their high horse and realize that the game has gone down hill, and unless the decision makers are new on the job, they have been a big reason for it.
Ultimately, what "scares" me the most is, outside of P vs P, I think I would rather watch pro Nexus Wars. I really have to wonder what would get more viewers, given equal exposure hype. Competitive Nexus Wars or pro SC 2? Without free to play, I really don't know. It scares me to think how close the numbers would be, and, really, without any non lottery like incentive in SC 2, I'd be open to SC 2 being replaced by nexus wars. I'd probably enjoy it a lot more. I'm serious. These games look more like a worse version of nexus wars than a proper Starcraft game. I'd love to see the Korean pros form Nexus wars teams. I'm going to guess you didn't watch Blizzcon yesterday Actually, Taeja vs soO is on the rebroadcast right now. Do yourself a favor and turn it on http://www.twitch.tv/wcs I did watch it. That's the problem. I wish I hadn't seen it. Max vs max, max vs max. An all-in not working versus the greediest build in the game. It makes you think... maybe that's part of why games end up max vs max... why even bother taking the risk of trying to kill your opponent. I'm going to assume you haven't watched much T vs Z in BW. There are things to miss from BW. There's nothing that seems like a positive addition in SC 2. Only missing things. That's my opinion. But, it's an honest one.
You are wrong about that, and considering the recommended game poll for game 3 looked like this:
Poll: Recommend TaeJa vs soO Game 3?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (200) 92% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (8) 4% ★★★ - Good game (4) 2% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (4) 2% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2) 1% 218 total votes Your vote: Recommend TaeJa vs soO Game 3? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Maybe you're the one with the problem, and this game just isn't for you. It's different from Brood War but It can be just as exciting. If you don't like it you can always watch Brood War.
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On November 03 2014 04:08 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 04:02 playa wrote:On November 03 2014 03:56 Dodgin wrote:On November 03 2014 03:53 playa wrote:
I'd hate to be "that guy," but... every time I see a T vs Z in SC 2, I'm reminded that SC 2 has a problem. Firstly, I just can't help but to think "god, I wish this was a BW T vs Z." I try to enjoy the game for what it is, but then I notice every game seems to be max vs max with "infinite" resources banked. I get that big maps play a role, but in my games, on normal maps, I notice I'm usually maxed, too.
Whenever you're able to max so easily, the game seems like it's about compositions and which race has the better late game, more so than who is the better/more skillful player. Until the game allows for more Classic moments with his oracle, I think a bigger focus should be on non Koreans and growing their scene, rather than simply offering more opportunities for the best Koreans, when the game doesn't allow them to wow the fans, anyways. Korean fans would rather watch Bisu play ladder games in BW.
As a viewer, there is a big difference between thinking, yeah I guess that guy is better than me, than thinking "jesus, I could never do that. How did he do that?" Until this game is more of the latter than the former, no one cares if Koreans are better. The likes of Naniwa, Stephano and Idra, along with the legend of Flash are going to be the driving forces.
If you're not willing to cater to the non Koreans, because "they're not good enough," then you may as well be the blame for the game being in its current state. The "best personalities" might not always be within this extremely limited number of spots. You'd think SC 2 was more of a lottery than a sport with these changes. People within SC 2 need to get off their high horse and realize that the game has gone down hill, and unless the decision makers are new on the job, they have been a big reason for it.
Ultimately, what "scares" me the most is, outside of P vs P, I think I would rather watch pro Nexus Wars. I really have to wonder what would get more viewers, given equal exposure hype. Competitive Nexus Wars or pro SC 2? Without free to play, I really don't know. It scares me to think how close the numbers would be, and, really, without any non lottery like incentive in SC 2, I'd be open to SC 2 being replaced by nexus wars. I'd probably enjoy it a lot more. I'm serious. These games look more like a worse version of nexus wars than a proper Starcraft game. I'd love to see the Korean pros form Nexus wars teams. I'm going to guess you didn't watch Blizzcon yesterday Actually, Taeja vs soO is on the rebroadcast right now. Do yourself a favor and turn it on http://www.twitch.tv/wcs I did watch it. That's the problem. I wish I hadn't seen it. Max vs max, max vs max. An all-in not working versus the greediest build in the game. It makes you think... maybe that's part of why games end up max vs max... why even bother taking the risk of trying to kill your opponent. I'm going to assume you haven't watched much T vs Z in BW. There are things to miss from BW. There's nothing that seems like a positive addition in SC 2. Only missing things. That's my opinion. But, it's an honest one. You are wrong about that, and considering the recommended game poll for game 3 looked like this: Poll: Recommend TaeJa vs soO Game 3?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (200) 92% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (8) 4% ★★★ - Good game (4) 2% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (4) 2% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2) 1% 218 total votes Your vote: Recommend TaeJa vs soO Game 3? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Maybe you're the one with the problem, and this game just isn't for you. It's different from Brood War but It can be just as exciting. If you don't like it you can always watch Brood War.
Yeah, well guess what, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement for SC 2. I would have voted the same and still felt the same way. Maybe if it included in all of starcraft (BW), then it could mean something. The Zest vs Life swarm host game. I could vote that as maybe being one of the better swarm host games, yet it still would be hard to tell whether that means it is worth watching or not.
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Like I said, if you don't like it, you can quit. But I'm tired of reading this crap about brood war vs SC2 in 2014, stop beating a dead horse and get with the program or move on.
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On November 03 2014 04:13 Dodgin wrote:
Like I said, if you don't like it, you can quit. But I'm tired of reading this crap about brood war vs SC2 in 2014, stop beating a dead horse and get with the program or move on.
Agreed here. If you prefer BW, well I believe the BW pro scene still exists. If you'd like SC2 being BW2, then you're free to try to organize a serious community around SC2 : BW. But coming here and saying that SC2 is bad is of no use at all
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On November 03 2014 04:13 Dodgin wrote:
Like I said, if you don't like it, you can quit. But I'm tired of reading this crap about brood war vs SC2 in 2014, stop beating a dead horse and get with the program or move on.
I think what he is trying to say is that aside from a large army count type of fights being good to watch, there's virtually no other strategy. I mean, the early game is pretty nonexistent right now. Early pushes can be held off very easily by professional gamers if they execute well and know what they are doing. But then I never watched BW so I have no idea if my post makes any sense or not.
For me, while that game is easily one of the best all year, it would be nice to have a diverse TvZ matchup where it is "less predictable" on how the matchup will unfold. Gone are the days where you can do a silly 1 base 6 rax non-upgraded Marines and attempt a win there because of the constant rallying while Zerg defends and tries to win by wearing out the Terran. The whole game has shifted to a macro mid and late-game type of play.
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On November 03 2014 04:20 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 04:13 Dodgin wrote:
Like I said, if you don't like it, you can quit. But I'm tired of reading this crap about brood war vs SC2 in 2014, stop beating a dead horse and get with the program or move on. Agreed here. If you prefer BW, well I believe the BW pro scene still exists. If you'd like SC2 being BW2, then you're free to try to organize a serious community around SC2 : BW. But coming here and saying that SC2 is bad is of no use at all
It actually is of use. Because, more times than not, you come to find out the people who are most into SC 2 are the ones who have never watched BW before. I'm telling you why I think even the best SC 2 games are boring. Not everyone has the benefit of having never seen BW before.
Moving on, when you have these stream numbers, means improving something. I've been trying to learn to stomach watching this game for 2 years now. It's not easy -- It's really hard. I'm coming around some, on some of the matchups, but at the end of the day, too many games are max vs max, and it happens too soon. I feel like I'm watching nexus wars, but I'm not. It makes me wish I was watching nexus wars. In BW, you were amazed because the skill ceiling was so high. Now, my jaw drops when I see a Zerg setting up flanks. That's not good.
When the numbers are like this, sadly suggesting a nexus war league seems more productive than saying "wow, that was amazing." If it were truly that amazing, more people would have tuned in. If you liked these games, you'd probably love nexus wars even more, lol.
On WCS, the "rumored" 2k for challenger league is a big plus. And, as a viewer, I do think uniting both EU and NA is a great thing. I do think those are very positive changes. So, some good is happening. But, until there is free to play, you can't completely ignore the game itself.
As for BW, I have watched some recently. It's hard to do, though, when you still play SC 2, because it just makes SC 2 that much harder to watch. I personally think SC 2 is actually a more balanced game, it's just the skill ceiling was so high in BW, that you always had a chance to overcome imbalances if you were good enough.
As someone who played BW on Korean ladders and now SC 2 on Korean ladders, it's kinda laughable to put Koreans on a pedestal in this game. For as much as they play, the difference should be much bigger... something is wrong. SC 2 offers a real chance for foreigners to be even better than Koreans, given a proper incentive for enough non Koreans to practice like it mattered.
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On November 03 2014 04:40 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 04:13 Dodgin wrote:
Like I said, if you don't like it, you can quit. But I'm tired of reading this crap about brood war vs SC2 in 2014, stop beating a dead horse and get with the program or move on. I think what he is trying to say is that aside from a large army count type of fights being good to watch, there's virtually no other strategy. I mean, the early game is pretty nonexistent right now. Early pushes can be held off very easily by professional gamers if they execute well and know what they are doing. But then I never watched BW so I have no idea if my post makes any sense or not. For me, while that game is easily one of the best all year, it would be nice to have a diverse TvZ matchup where it is "less predictable" on how the matchup will unfold. Gone are the days where you can do a silly 1 base 6 rax non-upgraded Marines and attempt a win there because of the constant rallying while Zerg defends and tries to win by wearing out the Terran. The whole game has shifted to a macro mid and late-game type of play.
early game nonexistent? holy crap guys It's like you don't even play or watch this game but you still feel the need to comment on it.
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On November 03 2014 05:05 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 04:40 geokilla wrote:On November 03 2014 04:13 Dodgin wrote:
Like I said, if you don't like it, you can quit. But I'm tired of reading this crap about brood war vs SC2 in 2014, stop beating a dead horse and get with the program or move on. I think what he is trying to say is that aside from a large army count type of fights being good to watch, there's virtually no other strategy. I mean, the early game is pretty nonexistent right now. Early pushes can be held off very easily by professional gamers if they execute well and know what they are doing. But then I never watched BW so I have no idea if my post makes any sense or not. For me, while that game is easily one of the best all year, it would be nice to have a diverse TvZ matchup where it is "less predictable" on how the matchup will unfold. Gone are the days where you can do a silly 1 base 6 rax non-upgraded Marines and attempt a win there because of the constant rallying while Zerg defends and tries to win by wearing out the Terran. The whole game has shifted to a macro mid and late-game type of play. early game nonexistent? holy crap guys It's like you don't even play or watch this game but you still feel the need to comment on it.
Ok TvZ, what early game is there? And you know I play and watch the game religiously... It's mainly some sort of fast CC into Hellion pressure.
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On November 03 2014 05:11 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 05:05 Dodgin wrote:On November 03 2014 04:40 geokilla wrote:On November 03 2014 04:13 Dodgin wrote:
Like I said, if you don't like it, you can quit. But I'm tired of reading this crap about brood war vs SC2 in 2014, stop beating a dead horse and get with the program or move on. I think what he is trying to say is that aside from a large army count type of fights being good to watch, there's virtually no other strategy. I mean, the early game is pretty nonexistent right now. Early pushes can be held off very easily by professional gamers if they execute well and know what they are doing. But then I never watched BW so I have no idea if my post makes any sense or not. For me, while that game is easily one of the best all year, it would be nice to have a diverse TvZ matchup where it is "less predictable" on how the matchup will unfold. Gone are the days where you can do a silly 1 base 6 rax non-upgraded Marines and attempt a win there because of the constant rallying while Zerg defends and tries to win by wearing out the Terran. The whole game has shifted to a macro mid and late-game type of play. early game nonexistent? holy crap guys It's like you don't even play or watch this game but you still feel the need to comment on it. Ok TvZ, what early game is there? And you know I play and watch the game religiously... It's mainly some sort of fast CC into Hellion pressure.
I'm not going to bother listing off the 10's of all ins or early pressure builds from both races, if you're expecting some kind of " early game " when both players are playing greedy macro then I don't know what to tell you.
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On November 03 2014 03:47 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 02:35 Musicus wrote:On November 03 2014 00:22 Dingodile wrote:On November 02 2014 09:27 Musicus wrote:On November 02 2014 09:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
2k for challenger :O Great news, I was worried about that, but they did it right . So if the 32 players that fail to get into Premiere still get 2k that will be 64K for challenger which leaves 136k for premiere. I think that's pretty much perfect distribution. I think the prize distribution is the same in top32 except winner gets 30k instead 25k. Right now is 131k for premier league. Right I forgot the Prize money was 131k, I did my math with 100k, oops . So that would leave 198k for Premiere league, Kim Phan confirmed that the money stays the same and none of it goes to Korea. So the prize money for Premiere league is insane now. Very unlikely that none of it goes to korea. WCS KR had 170k and now 175k (GSL and SpoTV combined) each season. WCS NA and WCS EU had 140k each season. Now with WCS unified you have 275k per season. 275-64=211k for top32. edit: If you ask why suddenly140 and not 131. top48=140,6k and top32=131k. place 33-48 get $600, so 16*0,6=9,6k. 140,6-9,6=131k.
Ah thanks for the correct math, forgot the challenger money. Well whether nothing goes to Korea or 5k each seaon go to Korea doesn't really make a diffence tbh. 275K each season, if you consider that foreigners only made 114.6K in WCS S3 this year, that's great news! Especially since they'll pay top64.
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I don't know how can anyone complain about TvZ right now... that matchup is perfectly fine if you compare it with TvP.
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From what i got from the grand finals interview, the prize money is the same, but is more distributed. In other words, with the unified WCS its actually easier to get your hands on that e-sports prize money (well, not for Koreans). I suppose even RO8 will be a good sum? And the competition will only be slightly stronger with many koreans moving to GSL...
The slot distribution looks ok, but i cannot help feeling that a qualifier is more fair.
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EPT
