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When we think of the dreadful map pool we could have had, I think we should be thankful most of us have a brain instead of complaining about some potentially problematic features those maps can have. Of course they're not perfect, but the map pool so far is really playable.
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On October 21 2014 22:18 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 21:48 Big J wrote:On October 21 2014 20:56 Zheryn wrote:On October 21 2014 20:10 OtherWorld wrote:On October 21 2014 19:52 Big J wrote:On October 21 2014 19:46 OtherWorld wrote:On October 21 2014 19:24 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 21 2014 19:22 SatedSC2 wrote:On October 21 2014 19:17 klup wrote:
Can someone clarify something for me. Will we have the 7 "old" maps added to the 7 maps in the current mappool or is it instead of the current 7 or a in between? Instead of the current 7. The Season 4 map-pool will be these 7 maps and these 7 maps only. The thing that's scaring me most is ZvZ on those maps. Don't worry, as asual nobody gives a shit about ZvZ when talking of maps :/ I think there is not a lot you can do mapwise for ZvZ. Make the natural choke tight and covered with creep without a tumor. Make it so that queens can somewhat easily walk between natural and main. If you want to make roach fights more interesting, chokes in front of 3rd and 4th bases help. But it's mostly unit issues... Being able to wall your natural without a tumor seems to me to be a requirement as essential for ZvZ as having a higher main than natural was for PvP before. Many maps (not only the old maps we are going to have here) have a natural choke that is either way too wide or way too far (or both). And you could go way more in depth concerning other features of the map, such as thinking about favoring air to try to bring back mutas in the current meta or make more chokes to emphasize on positionnal play It's sad that mapmakers/Blizzard don't think more about this. I don't care if you want to make a crazy map with only gold expansion or sick air space etc, but atleast make a natural that can be walled off without a creep tumor so people can open how they like to open and give people a lot more choices. Playing ZvZ on maps like Merry Go Round is just so freaking boring because you know that both people will have to open 1 base or hatch gas pool into ling bane, and it's extra painful if you don't enjoy playing that style. It's not quite like that. You hold basically everything if you just can confirm if it is coming, which is the hard part: Even when you open pool first and sac a pair of zerglings right away it is possible to block them at the ramp and then you are blind about the opponents speed/baneling timings. And watching the drone count at the natural isn't that helpful early, because higher drone numbers can mean transfer or droning - not to mention that you cannot even watch the drone count at the natural on all maps. But in general I'd recommend everybody to open with gas anyways, which is why I'm not that sold on the need to cater to gasless builds. They aren't that good to begin with.  I think it is just really hard to cater to early game ZvZ, and even if you did, you couldn't really prevent that mass speedling/baneling aggression has a good chance of succeeding in either killing you, or making you lose so much money to hold (that early wall on maps where you can build it just costs so much). But yes, obviously naturals as MGR or Daedalus do their part in making it even harder to enjoy. I hate opening gas because then you go into ling / bane wars and the player with the bad injects wins because "Inject, switch back to army, all army dead because the guy wasn't injecting and killed all your lings with a bane" or something like that. Now i go roach rush, or proxy hatch on merry go round :p Merry go round is stupid. The amount of 8 pool i took with the guy spotting me first and me spotting him last....
You could argue that the best injector is the one that knows when there are more important things to do. 
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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On October 21 2014 19:22 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 19:17 klup wrote:
Can someone clarify something for me. Will we have the 7 "old" maps added to the 7 maps in the current mappool or is it instead of the current 7 or a in between? Instead of the current 7. The Season 4 map-pool will be these 7 maps and these 7 maps only.
What about pro tourney , will they have to play on those maps or will they stick to the season 3 ones? I find it stupid to limit to 7 maps why no let the 7 new maps with the 7 old ones and let people have 7 bans so you can mix things up. This all or nothing is not that great.
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Northern Ireland280 Posts
On October 22 2014 05:20 [PkF] Wire wrote:
When we think of the dreadful map pool we could have had, I think we should be thankful most of us have a brain instead of complaining about some potentially problematic features those maps can have. Of course they're not perfect, but the map pool so far is really playable.
Your posts come off as pretty abrasive dude, not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot The map pool looks fine in that it's the most standard bunch of macro maps you could pick from, but I'm not looking forward to being a Zerg on these maps at all.
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On October 22 2014 15:52 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 22:18 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 21 2014 21:48 Big J wrote:On October 21 2014 20:56 Zheryn wrote:On October 21 2014 20:10 OtherWorld wrote:On October 21 2014 19:52 Big J wrote:On October 21 2014 19:46 OtherWorld wrote:On October 21 2014 19:24 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 21 2014 19:22 SatedSC2 wrote:On October 21 2014 19:17 klup wrote:
Can someone clarify something for me. Will we have the 7 "old" maps added to the 7 maps in the current mappool or is it instead of the current 7 or a in between? Instead of the current 7. The Season 4 map-pool will be these 7 maps and these 7 maps only. The thing that's scaring me most is ZvZ on those maps. Don't worry, as asual nobody gives a shit about ZvZ when talking of maps :/ I think there is not a lot you can do mapwise for ZvZ. Make the natural choke tight and covered with creep without a tumor. Make it so that queens can somewhat easily walk between natural and main. If you want to make roach fights more interesting, chokes in front of 3rd and 4th bases help. But it's mostly unit issues... Being able to wall your natural without a tumor seems to me to be a requirement as essential for ZvZ as having a higher main than natural was for PvP before. Many maps (not only the old maps we are going to have here) have a natural choke that is either way too wide or way too far (or both). And you could go way more in depth concerning other features of the map, such as thinking about favoring air to try to bring back mutas in the current meta or make more chokes to emphasize on positionnal play It's sad that mapmakers/Blizzard don't think more about this. I don't care if you want to make a crazy map with only gold expansion or sick air space etc, but atleast make a natural that can be walled off without a creep tumor so people can open how they like to open and give people a lot more choices. Playing ZvZ on maps like Merry Go Round is just so freaking boring because you know that both people will have to open 1 base or hatch gas pool into ling bane, and it's extra painful if you don't enjoy playing that style. It's not quite like that. You hold basically everything if you just can confirm if it is coming, which is the hard part: Even when you open pool first and sac a pair of zerglings right away it is possible to block them at the ramp and then you are blind about the opponents speed/baneling timings. And watching the drone count at the natural isn't that helpful early, because higher drone numbers can mean transfer or droning - not to mention that you cannot even watch the drone count at the natural on all maps. But in general I'd recommend everybody to open with gas anyways, which is why I'm not that sold on the need to cater to gasless builds. They aren't that good to begin with. I think it is just really hard to cater to early game ZvZ, and even if you did, you couldn't really prevent that mass speedling/baneling aggression has a good chance of succeeding in either killing you, or making you lose so much money to hold (that early wall on maps where you can build it just costs so much). But yes, obviously naturals as MGR or Daedalus do their part in making it even harder to enjoy. I hate opening gas because then you go into ling / bane wars and the player with the bad injects wins because "Inject, switch back to army, all army dead because the guy wasn't injecting and killed all your lings with a bane" or something like that. Now i go roach rush, or proxy hatch on merry go round :p Merry go round is stupid. The amount of 8 pool i took with the guy spotting me first and me spotting him last.... You could argue that the best injector is the one that knows when there are more important things to do.
Injects were just an example. I just hate to play ZvZ on Merry go round
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On October 22 2014 17:29 Tzyx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 05:20 [PkF] Wire wrote:
When we think of the dreadful map pool we could have had, I think we should be thankful most of us have a brain instead of complaining about some potentially problematic features those maps can have. Of course they're not perfect, but the map pool so far is really playable. Your posts come off as pretty abrasive dude, not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot The map pool looks fine in that it's the most standard bunch of macro maps you could pick from, but I'm not looking forward to being a Zerg on these maps at all.
He is abrasive, but its only because he is passionate about having a legit ladder pool. Ever since Blizzard introduced this #dreampool Wire has been declaring the sky is falling and the ladder pool will be full of horrible maps (XnC, Steppes, etc..).
You know that feeling when you just got out of a serious situation, like out running a vicious pitbull or fending off a mugger, only to get hit by a car immediately afterwards? That is how it will feel when Steppes gets voted in as last map. Wire, I am looking at you. 
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On October 22 2014 17:54 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 05:13 Meavis wrote:On October 22 2014 05:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:08 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:04 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:02 Gamegene wrote:Why aren't progamers up in arms about this  They're the ones who are going to suffer the most, either they're not going to get practice on the maps they want or tournaments will actually use the ladder maps lol Tournaments probably won't use the ladder maps and it isn't WCS so it isn't as big of a deal. 2 and a half months of crappy ladder games Not necessarily, a couple of the maps are okay #1 Cloud Kingdom LE (8.34%) - Amount of space to cover for the main versus Reaper / Blink #2 Metalopolis (8.14%) lol #3 Daybreak LE (7.79%) SWARM HOSTS #4 Ohana LE (7.69%) SOUL TRAIN #5 Shakuras Plateau (7.21%) I HOPE YOU ENJOY BACK DOOR MSC BLINK... AND IT'S SHAKURAS LOL #6 Akilon Wastes (6.77%) OK map. Steppes lol I said okay, not perfect. Every maps has exploitable stuff every? try me brah Oh how cute, a Cloud Kingdom clone. All maps should aspire to be more like Cloud Kingdom. :3 + Show Spoiler +I suppose I better point out that this is mostly sarcasm so that you don't explode...
A little condescending, but I agree shares a lot of aspects from CK.
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On October 22 2014 17:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 17:54 SatedSC2 wrote:On October 22 2014 05:13 Meavis wrote:On October 22 2014 05:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:08 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:04 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:02 Gamegene wrote:Why aren't progamers up in arms about this They're the ones who are going to suffer the most, either they're not going to get practice on the maps they want or tournaments will actually use the ladder maps lol Tournaments probably won't use the ladder maps and it isn't WCS so it isn't as big of a deal. 2 and a half months of crappy ladder games Not necessarily, a couple of the maps are okay #1 Cloud Kingdom LE (8.34%) - Amount of space to cover for the main versus Reaper / Blink #2 Metalopolis (8.14%) lol #3 Daybreak LE (7.79%) SWARM HOSTS #4 Ohana LE (7.69%) SOUL TRAIN #5 Shakuras Plateau (7.21%) I HOPE YOU ENJOY BACK DOOR MSC BLINK... AND IT'S SHAKURAS LOL #6 Akilon Wastes (6.77%) OK map. Steppes lol I said okay, not perfect. Every maps has exploitable stuff every? try me brah Oh how cute, a Cloud Kingdom clone. All maps should aspire to be more like Cloud Kingdom. :3 + Show Spoiler +I suppose I better point out that this is mostly sarcasm so that you don't explode... A little condescending, but I agree shares a lot of aspects from CK.
Come on. If that map shares 'a lot of aspects from CK', then 90% of the balanced and non-broken maps that are made share them too.
Also I don't think many of you will still say Akilon is an OK map when you'll play it again, don't forget that Zergs have become much much better with $warmhosts than at the time when it was in the map pool.
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On October 22 2014 19:02 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 17:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On October 22 2014 17:54 SatedSC2 wrote:On October 22 2014 05:13 Meavis wrote:On October 22 2014 05:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:08 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:04 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:02 Gamegene wrote:Why aren't progamers up in arms about this They're the ones who are going to suffer the most, either they're not going to get practice on the maps they want or tournaments will actually use the ladder maps lol Tournaments probably won't use the ladder maps and it isn't WCS so it isn't as big of a deal. 2 and a half months of crappy ladder games Not necessarily, a couple of the maps are okay #1 Cloud Kingdom LE (8.34%) - Amount of space to cover for the main versus Reaper / Blink #2 Metalopolis (8.14%) lol #3 Daybreak LE (7.79%) SWARM HOSTS #4 Ohana LE (7.69%) SOUL TRAIN #5 Shakuras Plateau (7.21%) I HOPE YOU ENJOY BACK DOOR MSC BLINK... AND IT'S SHAKURAS LOL #6 Akilon Wastes (6.77%) OK map. Steppes lol I said okay, not perfect. Every maps has exploitable stuff every? try me brah Oh how cute, a Cloud Kingdom clone. All maps should aspire to be more like Cloud Kingdom. :3 + Show Spoiler +I suppose I better point out that this is mostly sarcasm so that you don't explode... A little condescending, but I agree shares a lot of aspects from CK. Come on. If that map shares 'a lot of aspects from CK', then 90% of the balanced and non-broken maps that are made share them too. Also I don't think many of you will still say Akilon is an OK map when you'll play it again, don't forget that Zergs have become much much better with $warmhosts than at the time when it was in the map pool.
dunno, once you need 5th and 6th bases i think it's gonna be hard to maneuver a large SH army around the high ground area and defend everything. akilon has plenty of cliffs and chokes in the high ground area, vision blockers and dead zones in the center, also if i recall correctly a good amount of airspace for drop play. even on 4 bases there are opportunities to maneuver into the pocket rock base or the other 3/4 base depending on where the SH are. a good SH map sure but not a ridiculous one like daybreak
nonzerg players especially seem to think every map they haven't played on or haven't played in a while is going to be "amazing for swarm hosts". and also map hipsters in general want every map to be horrible for SH and amazing for siege tanks/[insert terran abusive mechanic]
On October 22 2014 17:53 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 17:29 Tzyx wrote:On October 22 2014 05:20 [PkF] Wire wrote:
When we think of the dreadful map pool we could have had, I think we should be thankful most of us have a brain instead of complaining about some potentially problematic features those maps can have. Of course they're not perfect, but the map pool so far is really playable. Your posts come off as pretty abrasive dude, not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot The map pool looks fine in that it's the most standard bunch of macro maps you could pick from, but I'm not looking forward to being a Zerg on these maps at all. He is abrasive, but its only because he is passionate about having a legit ladder pool. Ever since Blizzard introduced this #dreampool Wire has been declaring the sky is falling and the ladder pool will be full of horrible maps (XnC, Steppes, etc..). You know that feeling when you just got out of a serious situation, like out running a vicious pitbull or fending off a mugger, only to get hit by a car immediately afterwards? That is how it will feel when Steppes gets voted in as last map. Wire, I am looking at you.
there's really no context where being passionate about something makes it necessary to call people idiots. unless you're passionate about calling people idiots
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how will the pros practice for upcoming tournament and which mappool will the tournament organizers use after season 3??
i mean there are still some big tournaments left after blizzcon, fe homestorycup iem san jose, dreamhack winter, ho6six cup
i guess costum only for the pros on the upcoming season
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51454 Posts
Wow, i have officially given up on battle net forum if steppes does not get in. The maps that have been revealed in so far are stupid and boring. TT
Metalopolis the only exception.
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Northern Ireland24348 Posts
On October 22 2014 17:54 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 05:13 Meavis wrote:On October 22 2014 05:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:08 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:04 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:02 Gamegene wrote:Why aren't progamers up in arms about this They're the ones who are going to suffer the most, either they're not going to get practice on the maps they want or tournaments will actually use the ladder maps lol Tournaments probably won't use the ladder maps and it isn't WCS so it isn't as big of a deal. 2 and a half months of crappy ladder games Not necessarily, a couple of the maps are okay #1 Cloud Kingdom LE (8.34%) - Amount of space to cover for the main versus Reaper / Blink #2 Metalopolis (8.14%) lol #3 Daybreak LE (7.79%) SWARM HOSTS #4 Ohana LE (7.69%) SOUL TRAIN #5 Shakuras Plateau (7.21%) I HOPE YOU ENJOY BACK DOOR MSC BLINK... AND IT'S SHAKURAS LOL #6 Akilon Wastes (6.77%) OK map. Steppes lol I said okay, not perfect. Every maps has exploitable stuff every? try me brah Oh how cute, a Cloud Kingdom clone. All maps should aspire to be more like Cloud Kingdom. :3 + Show Spoiler +I suppose I better point out that this is mostly sarcasm so that you don't explode...
God forbid we have maps that share characteristics with a genuinely good map
Somewhat depressing browsing the mapmaking sub forum, so many good maps there that will never see much action, such a shame.
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Northern Ireland24348 Posts
On October 22 2014 19:13 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 19:02 OtherWorld wrote:On October 22 2014 17:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On October 22 2014 17:54 SatedSC2 wrote:On October 22 2014 05:13 Meavis wrote:On October 22 2014 05:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:08 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:04 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
[quote]
Tournaments probably won't use the ladder maps and it isn't WCS so it isn't as big of a deal. 2 and a half months of crappy ladder games Not necessarily, a couple of the maps are okay #1 Cloud Kingdom LE (8.34%) - Amount of space to cover for the main versus Reaper / Blink #2 Metalopolis (8.14%) lol #3 Daybreak LE (7.79%) SWARM HOSTS #4 Ohana LE (7.69%) SOUL TRAIN #5 Shakuras Plateau (7.21%) I HOPE YOU ENJOY BACK DOOR MSC BLINK... AND IT'S SHAKURAS LOL #6 Akilon Wastes (6.77%) OK map. Steppes lol I said okay, not perfect. Every maps has exploitable stuff every? try me brah Oh how cute, a Cloud Kingdom clone. All maps should aspire to be more like Cloud Kingdom. :3 + Show Spoiler +I suppose I better point out that this is mostly sarcasm so that you don't explode... A little condescending, but I agree shares a lot of aspects from CK. Come on. If that map shares 'a lot of aspects from CK', then 90% of the balanced and non-broken maps that are made share them too. Also I don't think many of you will still say Akilon is an OK map when you'll play it again, don't forget that Zergs have become much much better with $warmhosts than at the time when it was in the map pool. dunno, once you need 5th and 6th bases i think it's gonna be hard to maneuver a large SH army around the high ground area and defend everything. akilon has plenty of cliffs and chokes in the high ground area, vision blockers and dead zones in the center, also if i recall correctly a good amount of airspace for drop play. even on 4 bases there are opportunities to maneuver into the pocket rock base or the other 3/4 base depending on where the SH are. a good SH map sure but not a ridiculous one like daybreak nonzerg players especially seem to think every map they haven't played on or haven't played in a while is going to be "amazing for swarm hosts". and also map hipsters in general want every map to be horrible for SH and amazing for siege tanks/[insert terran abusive mechanic]Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 17:53 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On October 22 2014 17:29 Tzyx wrote:On October 22 2014 05:20 [PkF] Wire wrote:
When we think of the dreadful map pool we could have had, I think we should be thankful most of us have a brain instead of complaining about some potentially problematic features those maps can have. Of course they're not perfect, but the map pool so far is really playable. Your posts come off as pretty abrasive dude, not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot The map pool looks fine in that it's the most standard bunch of macro maps you could pick from, but I'm not looking forward to being a Zerg on these maps at all. He is abrasive, but its only because he is passionate about having a legit ladder pool. Ever since Blizzard introduced this #dreampool Wire has been declaring the sky is falling and the ladder pool will be full of horrible maps (XnC, Steppes, etc..). You know that feeling when you just got out of a serious situation, like out running a vicious pitbull or fending off a mugger, only to get hit by a car immediately afterwards? That is how it will feel when Steppes gets voted in as last map. Wire, I am looking at you. there's really no context where being passionate about something makes it necessary to call people idiots. unless you're passionate about calling people idiots
Also can people please stop making ridiculous assertions masquerading as fact? Firstly what are 'map hipsters', secondly who exactly is looking for maps that are terrible for Shost play and great for tanks? What map would even accomplish that apart from one with a lot of ledges and differing terrain heights? Define abusive Terran mechanics.
Apart from people saying that maps like Metalopolis will usher in a new era of 'creative' play, most posts I've seen showcase a desire for maps that do vary a bit, but allow for a variety of styles to prosper.
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On October 22 2014 19:13 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 19:02 OtherWorld wrote:On October 22 2014 17:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On October 22 2014 17:54 SatedSC2 wrote:On October 22 2014 05:13 Meavis wrote:On October 22 2014 05:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:08 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:04 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
[quote]
Tournaments probably won't use the ladder maps and it isn't WCS so it isn't as big of a deal. 2 and a half months of crappy ladder games Not necessarily, a couple of the maps are okay #1 Cloud Kingdom LE (8.34%) - Amount of space to cover for the main versus Reaper / Blink #2 Metalopolis (8.14%) lol #3 Daybreak LE (7.79%) SWARM HOSTS #4 Ohana LE (7.69%) SOUL TRAIN #5 Shakuras Plateau (7.21%) I HOPE YOU ENJOY BACK DOOR MSC BLINK... AND IT'S SHAKURAS LOL #6 Akilon Wastes (6.77%) OK map. Steppes lol I said okay, not perfect. Every maps has exploitable stuff every? try me brah Oh how cute, a Cloud Kingdom clone. All maps should aspire to be more like Cloud Kingdom. :3 + Show Spoiler +I suppose I better point out that this is mostly sarcasm so that you don't explode... A little condescending, but I agree shares a lot of aspects from CK. Come on. If that map shares 'a lot of aspects from CK', then 90% of the balanced and non-broken maps that are made share them too. Also I don't think many of you will still say Akilon is an OK map when you'll play it again, don't forget that Zergs have become much much better with $warmhosts than at the time when it was in the map pool. dunno, once you need 5th and 6th bases i think it's gonna be hard to maneuver a large SH army around the high ground area and defend everything. akilon has plenty of cliffs and chokes in the high ground area, vision blockers and dead zones in the center, also if i recall correctly a good amount of airspace for drop play. even on 4 bases there are opportunities to maneuver into the pocket rock base or the other 3/4 base depending on where the SH are. a good SH map sure but not a ridiculous one like daybreak nonzerg players especially seem to think every map they haven't played on or haven't played in a while is going to be "amazing for swarm hosts". and also map hipsters in general want every map to be horrible for SH and amazing for siege tanks/[insert terran abusive mechanic]
I am a Zerg player, occasional SH player, and probably what you call a map hipster, and I don't think every map should be terrible for SH and amazing for siege tanks, nor do I think that every map that haven't been played in a while is amazing for SH.
Concerning Akilon (I am talking only of ZvP and ZvMech) I could probably link you to some of the most infamous Stephano games or to Mana-Firecake, but I'll try to be constructive instead :
-you can park your SHs in front of your natural and defend 4 bases without any other move than resetting the locusts' rally point
-That same area can be very easily creeped up and flooded with static D (not very wide)
-Move you SHs slightly forward and you can deny your opponent the 2/8 o'clock bases. Move them near the front tower and you deny the 1/7 o'clock bases. All that while keeping your first 4 bases safe (in range of the locusts) and with very minimal movement.
-You do have a point concerning the difficulty to get a fifth and sixth base, but the fact that your opponent will have a hard time securing them too (item above), added to the fact that SHs are super cost-efficient and that the core of SH play is to get to 4 bases as quick as possible and then mine bases one by one because of how efficiently you trade (Snute's theory at least), make that difficulty less important.
-The two main attack paths are two narrow paths. As demonstrated by Heavy Rain, SHs love that
-The drop surface seems reasonable, but when you look at it closer it is not. Stephano games on this map showed that by putting 2-3 corruptors on patrol mode behind the 1 o'clock base mineral line and between the 8 and 9 o'clock bases (assuming you, the SH player, spawns top left), you stop 90% of the drops coming to your main bases. Some static will do with the remaining drops.
-Corruptors (or Muta if versus mech) + vipers don't give a shit about cliffs
-And finally the worst thing of all is that considering a lot of what I've written is not only valid for SH play but for turtly play in general, this map gives the Terran or Protoss an golden opportunity to turtle, thus allowing the Zerg to get to SHs without difficulty.
All in all I'm not saying it is a broken map for SH, but that it will produce a lot of long, drawn-out SH games.
edit : Also
On October 22 2014 19:39 Wombat_NI wrote:Also can people please stop making ridiculous assertions masquerading as fact? Firstly what are 'map hipsters', secondly who exactly is looking for maps that are terrible for Shost play and great for tanks? What map would even accomplish that apart from one with a lot of ledges and differing terrain heights? Define abusive Terran mechanics.
Apart from people saying that maps like Metalopolis will usher in a new era of 'creative' play, most posts I've seen showcase a desire for maps that do vary a bit, but allow for a variety of styles to prosper.
100% agreed
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On October 22 2014 19:02 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 17:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On October 22 2014 17:54 SatedSC2 wrote:On October 22 2014 05:13 Meavis wrote:On October 22 2014 05:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:08 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:04 Gamegene wrote:On October 22 2014 05:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 22 2014 05:02 Gamegene wrote:Why aren't progamers up in arms about this They're the ones who are going to suffer the most, either they're not going to get practice on the maps they want or tournaments will actually use the ladder maps lol Tournaments probably won't use the ladder maps and it isn't WCS so it isn't as big of a deal. 2 and a half months of crappy ladder games Not necessarily, a couple of the maps are okay #1 Cloud Kingdom LE (8.34%) - Amount of space to cover for the main versus Reaper / Blink #2 Metalopolis (8.14%) lol #3 Daybreak LE (7.79%) SWARM HOSTS #4 Ohana LE (7.69%) SOUL TRAIN #5 Shakuras Plateau (7.21%) I HOPE YOU ENJOY BACK DOOR MSC BLINK... AND IT'S SHAKURAS LOL #6 Akilon Wastes (6.77%) OK map. Steppes lol I said okay, not perfect. Every maps has exploitable stuff every? try me brah Oh how cute, a Cloud Kingdom clone. All maps should aspire to be more like Cloud Kingdom. :3 + Show Spoiler +I suppose I better point out that this is mostly sarcasm so that you don't explode... A little condescending, but I agree shares a lot of aspects from CK. Come on. If that map shares 'a lot of aspects from CK', then 90% of the balanced and non-broken maps that are made share them too. Also I don't think many of you will still say Akilon is an OK map when you'll play it again, don't forget that Zergs have become much much better with $warmhosts than at the time when it was in the map pool.
I see what you mean about SH being trouble on Akilon, but I want to reserve judgment on it until after I play.
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I was gonna write in this thread how they're saving the best for last, Steppes of War, however seeing that Xel'Naga Caverns hasn't been revealed yet. It just has to be Xel'Naga Caverns that is the final map.
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On October 22 2014 17:53 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 17:29 Tzyx wrote:On October 22 2014 05:20 [PkF] Wire wrote:
When we think of the dreadful map pool we could have had, I think we should be thankful most of us have a brain instead of complaining about some potentially problematic features those maps can have. Of course they're not perfect, but the map pool so far is really playable. Your posts come off as pretty abrasive dude, not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot The map pool looks fine in that it's the most standard bunch of macro maps you could pick from, but I'm not looking forward to being a Zerg on these maps at all. He is abrasive, but its only because he is passionate about having a legit ladder pool. Ever since Blizzard introduced this #dreampool Wire has been declaring the sky is falling and the ladder pool will be full of horrible maps (XnC, Steppes, etc..). You know that feeling when you just got out of a serious situation, like out running a vicious pitbull or fending off a mugger, only to get hit by a car immediately afterwards? That is how it will feel when Steppes gets voted in as last map. Wire, I am looking at you.
Ha ha ha I don't care I can veto it since the rest is relatively decent ^^ I'm already out of the woods !!!
Edit : to be precise, I didn't say the ladder pool was going to be full of horrible maps, just why I dreaded it and why it could have been a bad idea to offer so many known to be bad maps for voting, resulting in a wasted season (imagine if the map pool had been Shakuras + Metalo + XNC + Steppes + Shattered + Antiga + Yeonsu...). In the end, nothing to complain about, I'm even quite happy.
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EPT
