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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. |
On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place.
They won every big international tournament, so they are better.
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On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better.
There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be".
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Love it.
I always perfered WCS-groups with non or only 1 kori.
Code S is awesome, but we dont need three Code S.
WCS EU and NA should be about people who live there. And i dont think that much will change in EU.
And in NA we have Polt, Violet and JD (?).
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On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be".
Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level.
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The sad thing is a lot of the negativity could have been avoided if they had announced the creation of 3 tournaments independent from the GSL in Korea which will run throughout the year.
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On September 06 2014 03:05 Zahanator wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be". Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level.
You know that at one point Koreans were bad a BW and got there all on their own. Th idea that the play will stay at the same level and never improve is beyond a flawed argument.
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Residency Requirements
Starting in 2015, all WCS players must be legal residents of the region they choose to play in. This means that players must obtain necessary visas if they decide to reside and play in non-native regions.
Hell, it's about time!
All I read was blah blah blah, oh btw we finally came to our senses with WCS, only took us two yrs, thats progress, blah blah blah..
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On September 06 2014 02:48 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 02:45 The_Templar wrote:On September 06 2014 02:43 Zahanator wrote:
Well, foreigners will surely have fun with all that easy cash from WCS... Then they will just get slaughtered at season finals and international tournaments even harder than before. Seriously, GSL should now get ridiculously more money and points with all that skill and talent concentrated in one region. Wait, will there be season finals? That would be cool. A good and natural way for Koreans to gain more points. But I'll only be happy if the ratio is 8:4:4 for KR:NA:EU
Uhh... what about:
1 seed for each of the region-locked WCS per each season. (9)
1 seed for each of IEM, DH, Kespa for their special tournament tournaments. (3)
1 seed for each of the 3 "soft-region locked" ladder. Allow competitors to sign up for only 1 ladder. Top 16 or whatever of all the seasons get thrown into 3 pre-Blizzcon wildcard qualifiers (like the TI ones) where final seeds are up for grabs. (3)
1 seed for whatever.
Basically you ensure seeding for the popular/deep-pockets players (DH/IEM), "charity" and "best players" seeding with the respective WCS, and then an incentivized ladder which should revive the foreign ladders. I'm gonna assume that the floor on actual Korean slots is ~6 (3 GSL, 1 Kespa Cup, NA/KR ladder), that's certainly a lot better than it is now.
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On September 06 2014 03:05 Zahanator wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be". Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level.
How did anyone ever get good at anything then? Someone somewhere started by flinging goatshit at the cave wall, and eventually we got the Sistine Chapel.
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On September 06 2014 03:11 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:05 Zahanator wrote:On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be". Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level. How did anyone ever get good at anything then? Someone somewhere started by flinging goatshit at the cave wall, and eventually we got the Sistine Chapel.
Foreigners will get better for sure, but they won't catch up with the Koreans. I think that's what he was trying to say.
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On September 06 2014 03:04 Bjarne wrote:
Love it.
I always perfered WCS-groups with non or only 1 kori.
Code S is awesome, but we dont need three Code S.
WCS EU and NA should be about people who live there. And i dont think that much will change in EU.
And in NA we have Polt, Violet and JD (?).
As far as I know JD lives in Korea.
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On September 06 2014 03:13 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:11 Squat wrote:On September 06 2014 03:05 Zahanator wrote:On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be". Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level. How did anyone ever get good at anything then? Someone somewhere started by flinging goatshit at the cave wall, and eventually we got the Sistine Chapel. Foreigners will get better for sure, but they won't catch up with the Koreans. I think that's what he was trying to say.
Yeah, that's the question - are foreigners able to catch up to Koreans on their own? For sure they'll get better but in the same time Koreans get better unless the improvement will stop for some reason.
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I was wondering if TB could tell us what his players thoughts are about this decision
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On September 06 2014 01:41 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 01:30 andrewlt wrote:On September 06 2014 01:17 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2014 00:55 andrewlt wrote:On September 06 2014 00:26 Heat_023 wrote:On September 06 2014 00:20 FuRRie wrote:
Great, more random foreigners crappy games... I'm curious to know what league the author of a comment like this is in, if I may ask? That's just a retarded question. Most fans who only watch the NBA aren't good enough at basketball to make the Filipino basketball league. And people watch college and amature sports too. Even little league. The skill level of the play has nothing to do if people with watch it or not. I don't. People don't watch amateur sports for the level of play. For US amateur sports, the people watching are alumni with an almost religious connection to the school they are watching. They are there to connect with their classmates. The game itself is just a sideshow. Uh, what? College football/basketball is amazing fun to watch, even if I have zero connection with the teams. You can have incredibly exciting games, without tip-top level skill. That's the point that's trying to be made, here. As long as there is something to play for, games can ALWAYS be exciting.
College football is a whole different beast from the NFL. The same with college basketball compared to the NBA. It's almost like following a completely different game in many respects.
If you want to use College football/basketball as an illustration, it would be more appropriate to compare Division I to Division II or Division III. Far more people follow Division I teams than Division II or III. Even within Division I, there are just so many schools. Most college football/basketball fans follow the schools that tend to be in the top 25, which is a small portion of Division I.
There's a reason why it's easy to find fans of schools like Florida State, Alabama and Michigan, compared to schools like Georgia Southern, Valdosta State and Mount Union. Marketing and student enrollment size are probably factors, but you can't dismiss the factor that skill level has on the number of people who actively follow the scene.
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United States23455 Posts
On September 06 2014 03:13 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:11 Squat wrote:On September 06 2014 03:05 Zahanator wrote:On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be". Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level. How did anyone ever get good at anything then? Someone somewhere started by flinging goatshit at the cave wall, and eventually we got the Sistine Chapel. Foreigners will get better for sure, but they won't catch up with the Koreans. I think that's what he was trying to say.
Seems that way. I know people are saying that foreigners having more opportunity for money (this is pretty much only for NA because EU will have basically the same Koreans) will make them train harder and get better, but there are a good number of Europeans who have said that having Koreans in their region has made them improve drastically. Just ask Snute
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United States23455 Posts
On September 06 2014 03:26 AWalker9 wrote:
I was wondering if TB could tell us what his players thoughts are about this decision
Light the BiscuitBeacon
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At this point you pretty much have to. There's just too much talent in Korea, with even more about to come back.
Also, now is the time, if ever, to get a second (OSL?) tournament started up again. With last season of Proleague seeming to indicate a bit of a resurgence in popularity over in Korea, you might be able to justify another big league. GSL crowds have been pretty good sized too, even for just the Ro32.
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On September 06 2014 03:27 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:13 Silvana wrote:On September 06 2014 03:11 Squat wrote:On September 06 2014 03:05 Zahanator wrote:On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be". Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level. How did anyone ever get good at anything then? Someone somewhere started by flinging goatshit at the cave wall, and eventually we got the Sistine Chapel. Foreigners will get better for sure, but they won't catch up with the Koreans. I think that's what he was trying to say. Seems that way. I know people are saying that foreigners having more opportunity for money (this is pretty much only for NA because EU will have basically the same Koreans) will make them train harder and get better, but there are a good number of Europeans who have said that having Koreans in their region has made them improve drastically. Just ask Snute
There is a vast difference between having Koreans fully integrate with the scene and provide steady, consistent access to higher level practice, a la WCS EU, as opposed to them just coming over and beating up the locals, taking all the money, and then going home, like in WCS NA.
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On September 06 2014 03:27 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:13 Silvana wrote:On September 06 2014 03:11 Squat wrote:On September 06 2014 03:05 Zahanator wrote:On September 06 2014 03:01 Circumstance wrote:On September 06 2014 02:59 Starecat wrote:On September 06 2014 02:55 Circumstance wrote:
A massive portion of this argument is based on the flawed premise that the Koreans will always be better than the foreigners in perpetuity no matter what. That continued belief is the reason WCS is needed in the first place. They won every big international tournament, so they are better. There's a pretty substantial difference between "currently are" and "will always be". Foreigners sure won't get better by competing against each other at their crappy level. How did anyone ever get good at anything then? Someone somewhere started by flinging goatshit at the cave wall, and eventually we got the Sistine Chapel. Foreigners will get better for sure, but they won't catch up with the Koreans. I think that's what he was trying to say. Seems that way. I know people are saying that foreigners having more opportunity for money (this is pretty much only for NA because EU will have basically the same Koreans) will make them train harder and get better, but there are a good number of Europeans who have said that having Koreans in their region has made them improve drastically. Just ask Snute
I think that premise only applies if theyre living and competing in that region anyway. How much it helps is because they're always in the weekly cups and on the ladder. When most of the Koreans playing in AM just train on the korean ladder in the first place the same effect isn't felt
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Seriously, people, you gett better at anything by competing with opponents better than you are, that's how it works. Koreans got so good because of their work ethic, over the years established environment and natural talent they posses for this sort of things. If you really think this will help foreigners get better, than your opinion is based on either wishful thinking or some sort of flawd patriotism thinking that "your guys" can be as good as Koreans, they just didn't get a chance. Well, guess what? They didn't get a chance because they didn't deserve it. If you can't compete with the best then get out, work your ass off and come back when you can compete with the best. But you won't get there by artificially lowering the level of competition around you.
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EPT
