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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. |
On September 05 2014 18:05 Lorning wrote:
The year is 2015
Kespa decides to make practice houses in Europe and the USA which can be used by all their teams
Kespa players dominate WCS EU/AM/KR
Kespa takes over the world
KESPAAAAAAAAA
I, for one, welcome our new Kespa overlords.
+ Show Spoiler +Seriously, I'd love for this to happen.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On September 05 2014 18:07 Ctesias wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 18:05 Lorning wrote:
The year is 2015
Kespa decides to make practice houses in Europe and the USA which can be used by all their teams
Kespa players dominate WCS EU/AM/KR
Kespa takes over the world
KESPAAAAAAAAA I, for one, welcome our new Kespa overlords. + Show Spoiler +Seriously, I'd love for this to happen.
soO can finally get a WCS championship
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This will be awesome! I'm sure Koreans will be compensated
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37124 Posts
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On September 05 2014 18:08 Lorning wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 18:07 Ctesias wrote:On September 05 2014 18:05 Lorning wrote:
The year is 2015
Kespa decides to make practice houses in Europe and the USA which can be used by all their teams
Kespa players dominate WCS EU/AM/KR
Kespa takes over the world
KESPAAAAAAAAA I, for one, welcome our new Kespa overlords. + Show Spoiler +Seriously, I'd love for this to happen. soO can finally get a WCS championship
Nah, he will lose to a returning Naniwa, who uses proxy 2 gates in the deciding game. We all know, that this is going to happen.
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United States97277 Posts
On September 05 2014 18:09 Seeker wrote:
Did TL get new polls?
a little bit ago
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On September 05 2014 18:09 tomastaz wrote:
This will be awesome! I'm sure Koreans will be compensated
Yes, they all get to play in the most over-stacked scene in the business. I'm sure they'll all fit once a few* of them retire.
*Estimate may vary.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 05 2014 18:02 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 17:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 05 2014 17:43 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 17:34 Swisslink wrote:On September 05 2014 17:32 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 05 2014 17:24 sharkie wrote:
This is the best possible solution.
Now if prize money gets adapted to this change its literally perfect.
Why is there so much discussion about it going on? Because clearly your conclusion is not agreed upon by everyone. But why? Getting a work visa is not that hard and isn't it obvious that players that play their qualifiers in Korea and then only fly to NA/EU for the Ro16+ is a stupid system? Well, It'd be even more stupid to basically kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL the Koreans to play in Korea. During Proleague most Koreans won't go abroad too often, only 32 players will be in Code S most likely, 3 Code S per season... I don't think it's a fair format. Koreans will have a harder time qualifying for Code A than players in WCS NA will have to win the premier league. "Kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL koreans to play in korea"? You obviously haven't even read the post. 1) Koreans can play whereever they want as long as they reside there. Thats the whole point of "regional" tournaments. 2) So we are "killing" the korean scene by foring them to abide the rules that all other players from other regions have to follow? Like others have pointed out earlier in this thread GSL forces you to stay in korea for the whole tournament if you want to compete in it. Effectively "forcing" foreigners to play in their countries, sad for the koreans that they can't just take a plane to AM and steal all that regions price money in two weeks and then just fly home anymore. Its a very fair format and it is the very point behind actually having a regional system, AM has money invested in it. Why should korea just steal it away, let them play in their region, not AMs fault that korea doesn't invest in their ówn scene. If you think people can just up and move their entire lives to somewhere else because Blizzard decided to region lock WCS, then you're delusional. 1) The level of play in America will be an absolute joke. There will also be no reason for WCS AM players to ever improve, because they'll be playing against Americans the entire time. There's no challenge. Qxc said it best when he said that they don't need the Koreans OUT of WCS, they need them to stick around consistently enough to raise the level of play. 2) Korea NEEDS another tournament. GSL is NOT enough to saturate the Korean scene and retirements will flood in like crazy if these changes are implemented. There is no chance for 99% of Koreans in GSL and there is no hope for anyone to come through. 3) The WCS finals will be an absolute joke of a tournament. It'll be Americans and Europeans, who had neither incentive nor possibility to improve getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by the best of the best Koreans. That's not interesting. You can have that at any given foreign event. Blizzcon loses its status as the biggest finals of the year to just another weekend tournament where you'll already be able to narrow down the winner to about 5-10 players, depending on how many good Koreans make it. HORRIBLE changes in my opinion. 1) Koreans have zero reason to stick in America with the current system as well. The new changes will change absolutely nothing. ^^ 2) Obviously, but Korea needed another tournament for a long time. I have no idea why there is only GSL anyway. 3) Europeans will still be playing their Koreans on ladder. So their skills will only increase. NA already has weaker players qualify for Blizzconn (pigbaby) The changes affect none of your points
1) The WCS AM Koreans at least had to have a certain ladder rank to qualify and had to play in qualifiers. Besides, playing on the American server to prepare for matches where you'll have the same kind of delay MIGHT be quite helpful, you know? And I know for a fact that a lot of WCS Koreans actually DID play on the NA server, at least part of their time. You're wrong.
2) There is no second tournament in Korea because SC2 wasn't big enough there. That's why OGN bailed.
3) The "European" Koreans all live in Europe, so that over there will stay the same. But you know why? Because MC and his manager or GEM or whoever, somebody has enough money to open an actual team house there. How many Koreans would you say have that kind of money to just go "alright, let me move to the US and be a progamer there!"? Who pays for it?
Also, if you think that Pigbaby isn't LEAGUES better than any Americans, then you're wrong. NA also had players like Taeja, HerO, Polt, Byul, Revival, Bomber. Those players, when in shape, CAN compete with the best Koreans. They've done it for years. Having those players in an American tournament surely gives incentive to improve, and gives those American players a chance to simply PLAY against good Koreans? That experience alone is worth it. As it will be after this, they'll just be playing other Americans. No incentive to improve massively, not even a chance to play against some of the highest level players. And then, at the end of the year, they'll get to play the ABSOLUTE BEST at Blizzcon, and they're going to get utterly slaughtered. How fun.
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On September 05 2014 17:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 17:43 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 17:34 Swisslink wrote:On September 05 2014 17:32 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 05 2014 17:24 sharkie wrote:
This is the best possible solution.
Now if prize money gets adapted to this change its literally perfect.
Why is there so much discussion about it going on? Because clearly your conclusion is not agreed upon by everyone. But why? Getting a work visa is not that hard and isn't it obvious that players that play their qualifiers in Korea and then only fly to NA/EU for the Ro16+ is a stupid system? Well, It'd be even more stupid to basically kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL the Koreans to play in Korea. During Proleague most Koreans won't go abroad too often, only 32 players will be in Code S most likely, 3 Code S per season... I don't think it's a fair format. Koreans will have a harder time qualifying for Code A than players in WCS NA will have to win the premier league. "Kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL koreans to play in korea"? You obviously haven't even read the post. 1) Koreans can play whereever they want as long as they reside there. Thats the whole point of "regional" tournaments. 2) So we are "killing" the korean scene by foring them to abide the rules that all other players from other regions have to follow? Like others have pointed out earlier in this thread GSL forces you to stay in korea for the whole tournament if you want to compete in it. Effectively "forcing" foreigners to play in their countries, sad for the koreans that they can't just take a plane to AM and steal all that regions price money in two weeks and then just fly home anymore. Its a very fair format and it is the very point behind actually having a regional system, AM has money invested in it. Why should korea just steal it away, let them play in their region, not AMs fault that korea doesn't invest in their ówn scene. If you think people can just up and move their entire lives to somewhere else because Blizzard decided to region lock WCS, then you're delusional. 1) The level of play in America will be an absolute joke. There will also be no reason for WCS AM players to ever improve, because they'll be playing against Americans the entire time. There's no challenge. Qxc said it best when he said that they don't need the Koreans OUT of WCS, they need them to stick around consistently enough to raise the level of play. 2) Korea NEEDS another tournament. GSL is NOT enough to saturate the Korean scene and retirements will flood in like crazy if these changes are implemented. There is no chance for 99% of Koreans in GSL and there is no hope for anyone to come through. 3) The WCS finals will be an absolute joke of a tournament. It'll be Americans and Europeans, who had neither incentive nor possibility to improve getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by the best of the best Koreans. That's not interesting. You can have that at any given foreign event. Blizzcon loses its status as the biggest finals of the year to just another weekend tournament where you'll already be able to narrow down the winner to about 5-10 players, depending on how many good Koreans make it. HORRIBLE changes in my opinion.
I don't really know, like in all things it depends on what perspective you have. What is it you want out of WCS and what do you want for SC2.
For the koreans this is indeed generally bad, maybe for the overall level of play in SC2 in general its possibly bad.
I'm not saying anything in regards to being good or bad for those things, WCS is a region system it is meant to be played in EU by europeans and in NA by americans. It makes sense, at this point the foreigners are also starting to show a much higher level than they ever have before, its not impossisble for the scene to keep developing.
What I agree on with this change is that it follows the general idea of a region system, the way it was half a year ago it might just be three tournaments in korea, why have a regions system? Why we have it is one thing but if we are going to have it should make sense, this makes sense.
DH, IEM and other big tournaments are financed through foreign investment in the scene, through foreign passion. That koreans should have a "right" to have the same inevstments is stupid. We made these tournaments possible, the financers, the staff, the fans. If korea wants that then they should invest in their scene, its not the fault of EU or NA that koreans aren't investing in their scene and it does not make it right for korea to drain the investment of other scenes.
That is my perspective, the opposition I have found is the elitists that thinks that higher level of competition the better. Koreans everywhere is better, I understand the thought behind that but I do not agree. I will watch NA and EU WCS I think its exciting anyway, even if isn't the "cream of the crop". I also think that maybe it isn't the most important thing that every region is equal in skill at any given moment, that is rarely the case in sports. Its the rivalry or in this case the pursuit of being able to rival that fuels the flames of many sports.
Seriously how many sports can you can mention where all the players from all regions are filled with players from the same country? Soccer? American football? Baseball? Basketball? Its not the way it usually works, why should it in SC2.
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I was all for region lock when WCS started, but I feel now the change is too late. The other ladders are getting higher quality ladders. Now most Koreans will play in GSL again, so foreigner skill level will plummet again. It's like a snute nerf after he almost beat Flash lol. Also teams like Axiom are going to have a tough time  .
Also wtf is China going to do?
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The reset should happen every year. I don't know any other sport where you don't have to qualify for every world championship.
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On September 05 2014 17:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm not watching WCS America anymore.
First thing that comes to mind.
Second thing that comes to mind is that WCS Korea especially in 2015 then needs more points compared to EU/NA. It was by far the hardest region without the region lock. With the region lock its absurd. Should at least have 3 times the WCS points scattered into the lower ranks as well, because its such cruel competition.
I actually cannot believe people want to see GSL groups of 4 NA players. The quality is so low compared to the quality the Koreans bring. Also - if I remember correctly we already had final event with foreigners and the first round was basically 3-0 destruction - no more tears just dreams, because those people didn't belong there in the first place.
Sad to see WCS go the wrong way instead of walking the right one.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
@kimaphan: I'd be interested in what prompted this decision by Blizzard. If anything, I've felt like the three regions have diversified and created their own identities this year. I think WCS America numbers have grown while Korea has had a minor resurgance. Why take such drastic measures now, two years later?
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I still think the whole region thingy is bad. Almost no other individual sport has its competition regionalized that hard. Of course, ESPORTS (sorry, I had to) is kind of new, which means that there's not that much money in the scene. Compared to sports like Tennis or Snooker, Starcraft is tiny. The region lock is some kind of emergency protocol. But what we really need is a sustainable global tournament circuit like there is in Tennis. WCS points could still be awarded (like in the ATP Champions Race), but the whole region lock bullshit wouldn't have to happen, because everyone would be able to compete where he/she wants to.
The 3 main problems with my idea are:
1. Team leagues, which require players to stay in one place for a long time. Maybe there should be some kind of split between the "individual tournament season" and the "team league season".
2. Money. Travelling is expensive. Starcraft may have stabilized, but it won't grow that much in the upcoming years. There must be some kind of support system for lower-tier pros. (= an hierarchical tournament system, think grassroots)
3. Organization. We need some kind of players' association.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
I'd like to hear the thought process behind all the changes to be honest. Because I can't see ANYTHING good coming from this on a bigger scale.
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I will watch NA and EU WCS I think its exciting anyway, even if isn't the "cream of the crop". I also think that maybe it isn't the most important thing that every region is equal in skill at any given moment, that is rarely the case in sports.
So you basically don't care that foreigners are bad. Which makes you a minority? Foreigners themselves say they want to play better, to play on par with Koreans. Koreigners helped with just that.
This is just terrible from Blizzard, as usual.
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I think it will lower the skill level with time but I will tune in more to see my local heros. I also think they should make two wcs korea.
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On September 05 2014 18:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 18:02 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 05 2014 17:43 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 17:34 Swisslink wrote:On September 05 2014 17:32 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 05 2014 17:24 sharkie wrote:
This is the best possible solution.
Now if prize money gets adapted to this change its literally perfect.
Why is there so much discussion about it going on? Because clearly your conclusion is not agreed upon by everyone. But why? Getting a work visa is not that hard and isn't it obvious that players that play their qualifiers in Korea and then only fly to NA/EU for the Ro16+ is a stupid system? Well, It'd be even more stupid to basically kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL the Koreans to play in Korea. During Proleague most Koreans won't go abroad too often, only 32 players will be in Code S most likely, 3 Code S per season... I don't think it's a fair format. Koreans will have a harder time qualifying for Code A than players in WCS NA will have to win the premier league. "Kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL koreans to play in korea"? You obviously haven't even read the post. 1) Koreans can play whereever they want as long as they reside there. Thats the whole point of "regional" tournaments. 2) So we are "killing" the korean scene by foring them to abide the rules that all other players from other regions have to follow? Like others have pointed out earlier in this thread GSL forces you to stay in korea for the whole tournament if you want to compete in it. Effectively "forcing" foreigners to play in their countries, sad for the koreans that they can't just take a plane to AM and steal all that regions price money in two weeks and then just fly home anymore. Its a very fair format and it is the very point behind actually having a regional system, AM has money invested in it. Why should korea just steal it away, let them play in their region, not AMs fault that korea doesn't invest in their ówn scene. If you think people can just up and move their entire lives to somewhere else because Blizzard decided to region lock WCS, then you're delusional. 1) The level of play in America will be an absolute joke. There will also be no reason for WCS AM players to ever improve, because they'll be playing against Americans the entire time. There's no challenge. Qxc said it best when he said that they don't need the Koreans OUT of WCS, they need them to stick around consistently enough to raise the level of play. 2) Korea NEEDS another tournament. GSL is NOT enough to saturate the Korean scene and retirements will flood in like crazy if these changes are implemented. There is no chance for 99% of Koreans in GSL and there is no hope for anyone to come through. 3) The WCS finals will be an absolute joke of a tournament. It'll be Americans and Europeans, who had neither incentive nor possibility to improve getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by the best of the best Koreans. That's not interesting. You can have that at any given foreign event. Blizzcon loses its status as the biggest finals of the year to just another weekend tournament where you'll already be able to narrow down the winner to about 5-10 players, depending on how many good Koreans make it. HORRIBLE changes in my opinion. 1) Koreans have zero reason to stick in America with the current system as well. The new changes will change absolutely nothing. ^^ 2) Obviously, but Korea needed another tournament for a long time. I have no idea why there is only GSL anyway. 3) Europeans will still be playing their Koreans on ladder. So their skills will only increase. NA already has weaker players qualify for Blizzconn (pigbaby) The changes affect none of your points 1) The WCS AM Koreans at least had to have a certain ladder rank to qualify and had to play in qualifiers. Besides, playing on the American server to prepare for matches where you'll have the same kind of delay MIGHT be quite helpful, you know? And I know for a fact that a lot of WCS Koreans actually DID play on the NA server, at least part of their time. You're wrong. 2) There is no second tournament in Korea because SC2 wasn't big enough there. That's why OGN bailed. 3) The "European" Koreans all live in Europe, so that over there will stay the same. But you know why? Because MC and his manager or GEM or whoever, somebody has enough money to open an actual team house there. How many Koreans would you say have that kind of money to just go "alright, let me move to the US and be a progamer there!"? Who pays for it? Also, if you think that Pigbaby isn't LEAGUES better than any Americans, then you're wrong. NA also had players like Taeja, HerO, Polt, Byul, Revival, Bomber. Those players, when in shape, CAN compete with the best Koreans. They've done it for years. Having those players in an American tournament surely gives incentive to improve, and gives those American players a chance to simply PLAY against good Koreans? That experience alone is worth it. As it will be after this, they'll just be playing other Americans. No incentive to improve massively, not even a chance to play against some of the highest level players. And then, at the end of the year, they'll get to play the ABSOLUTE BEST at Blizzcon, and they're going to get utterly slaughtered. How fun.
1) I am pretty sure the amount of games is so so small that it practically had no effect on the average skill level of NA ladder. So no you are wrong. 
2) Well if SC2 is not big enough then maybe yes some players should just retire. If the scene is too small there is no need for more progamers.
3) So MC, a single person, has more power than any progamer team? ^^ Maybe some teams should just cease to exist then. Any progamer can compete with the best Koreans if they are in shape. HerO, Revival, Bomber, Pigbaby are NOT blizzcon worthy if you really want the ABSOLUTE BEST.
Your problem is that you want WCS to sustain a niche market that already has too many players. There are too many Korean SC2 progamers for Korea to sustain. WCS is only delaying the inevitable - retirements.
IF the changes to the WCS systems forces retirements they were coming anyway. Ask yourself the question if you'd rather be a 18 year old with no education and work experience or a 21 year old with no education and work experience?
This change will actually save a lot of lives for the future.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 05 2014 18:32 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 18:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 05 2014 18:02 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 05 2014 17:43 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 17:34 Swisslink wrote:On September 05 2014 17:32 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 05 2014 17:24 sharkie wrote:
This is the best possible solution.
Now if prize money gets adapted to this change its literally perfect.
Why is there so much discussion about it going on? Because clearly your conclusion is not agreed upon by everyone. But why? Getting a work visa is not that hard and isn't it obvious that players that play their qualifiers in Korea and then only fly to NA/EU for the Ro16+ is a stupid system? Well, It'd be even more stupid to basically kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL the Koreans to play in Korea. During Proleague most Koreans won't go abroad too often, only 32 players will be in Code S most likely, 3 Code S per season... I don't think it's a fair format. Koreans will have a harder time qualifying for Code A than players in WCS NA will have to win the premier league. "Kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL koreans to play in korea"? You obviously haven't even read the post. 1) Koreans can play whereever they want as long as they reside there. Thats the whole point of "regional" tournaments. 2) So we are "killing" the korean scene by foring them to abide the rules that all other players from other regions have to follow? Like others have pointed out earlier in this thread GSL forces you to stay in korea for the whole tournament if you want to compete in it. Effectively "forcing" foreigners to play in their countries, sad for the koreans that they can't just take a plane to AM and steal all that regions price money in two weeks and then just fly home anymore. Its a very fair format and it is the very point behind actually having a regional system, AM has money invested in it. Why should korea just steal it away, let them play in their region, not AMs fault that korea doesn't invest in their ówn scene. If you think people can just up and move their entire lives to somewhere else because Blizzard decided to region lock WCS, then you're delusional. 1) The level of play in America will be an absolute joke. There will also be no reason for WCS AM players to ever improve, because they'll be playing against Americans the entire time. There's no challenge. Qxc said it best when he said that they don't need the Koreans OUT of WCS, they need them to stick around consistently enough to raise the level of play. 2) Korea NEEDS another tournament. GSL is NOT enough to saturate the Korean scene and retirements will flood in like crazy if these changes are implemented. There is no chance for 99% of Koreans in GSL and there is no hope for anyone to come through. 3) The WCS finals will be an absolute joke of a tournament. It'll be Americans and Europeans, who had neither incentive nor possibility to improve getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by the best of the best Koreans. That's not interesting. You can have that at any given foreign event. Blizzcon loses its status as the biggest finals of the year to just another weekend tournament where you'll already be able to narrow down the winner to about 5-10 players, depending on how many good Koreans make it. HORRIBLE changes in my opinion. 1) Koreans have zero reason to stick in America with the current system as well. The new changes will change absolutely nothing. ^^ 2) Obviously, but Korea needed another tournament for a long time. I have no idea why there is only GSL anyway. 3) Europeans will still be playing their Koreans on ladder. So their skills will only increase. NA already has weaker players qualify for Blizzconn (pigbaby) The changes affect none of your points 1) The WCS AM Koreans at least had to have a certain ladder rank to qualify and had to play in qualifiers. Besides, playing on the American server to prepare for matches where you'll have the same kind of delay MIGHT be quite helpful, you know? And I know for a fact that a lot of WCS Koreans actually DID play on the NA server, at least part of their time. You're wrong. 2) There is no second tournament in Korea because SC2 wasn't big enough there. That's why OGN bailed. 3) The "European" Koreans all live in Europe, so that over there will stay the same. But you know why? Because MC and his manager or GEM or whoever, somebody has enough money to open an actual team house there. How many Koreans would you say have that kind of money to just go "alright, let me move to the US and be a progamer there!"? Who pays for it? Also, if you think that Pigbaby isn't LEAGUES better than any Americans, then you're wrong. NA also had players like Taeja, HerO, Polt, Byul, Revival, Bomber. Those players, when in shape, CAN compete with the best Koreans. They've done it for years. Having those players in an American tournament surely gives incentive to improve, and gives those American players a chance to simply PLAY against good Koreans? That experience alone is worth it. As it will be after this, they'll just be playing other Americans. No incentive to improve massively, not even a chance to play against some of the highest level players. And then, at the end of the year, they'll get to play the ABSOLUTE BEST at Blizzcon, and they're going to get utterly slaughtered. How fun. 1) I am pretty sure the amount of games is so so small that it practically had no effect on the average skill level of NA ladder. So no you are wrong. 2) Well if SC2 is not big enough then maybe yes some players should just retire. If the scene is too small there is no need for more progamers. 3) So MC, a single person, has more power than any progamer team? ^^ Maybe some teams should just cease to exist then. Any progamer can compete with the best Koreans if they are in shape. HerO, Revival, Bomber, Pigbaby are NOT blizzcon worthy if you really want the ABSOLUTE BEST. Your problem is that you want WCS to sustain a niche market that already has too many players. There are too many Korean SC2 progamers for Korea to sustain. WCS is only delaying the inevitable - retirements. IF the changes to the WCS systems forces retirements they were coming anyway. Ask yourself the question if you'd rather be a 18 year old with no education and work experience or a 21 year old with no education and work experience? This change will actually save a lot of lives for the future.
I won't even bother to respond to this.
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United States97277 Posts
On September 05 2014 18:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 18:32 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 18:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 05 2014 18:02 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 05 2014 17:43 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 17:34 Swisslink wrote:On September 05 2014 17:32 sharkie wrote:On September 05 2014 17:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 05 2014 17:24 sharkie wrote:
This is the best possible solution.
Now if prize money gets adapted to this change its literally perfect.
Why is there so much discussion about it going on? Because clearly your conclusion is not agreed upon by everyone. But why? Getting a work visa is not that hard and isn't it obvious that players that play their qualifiers in Korea and then only fly to NA/EU for the Ro16+ is a stupid system? Well, It'd be even more stupid to basically kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL the Koreans to play in Korea. During Proleague most Koreans won't go abroad too often, only 32 players will be in Code S most likely, 3 Code S per season... I don't think it's a fair format. Koreans will have a harder time qualifying for Code A than players in WCS NA will have to win the premier league. "Kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL koreans to play in korea"? You obviously haven't even read the post. 1) Koreans can play whereever they want as long as they reside there. Thats the whole point of "regional" tournaments. 2) So we are "killing" the korean scene by foring them to abide the rules that all other players from other regions have to follow? Like others have pointed out earlier in this thread GSL forces you to stay in korea for the whole tournament if you want to compete in it. Effectively "forcing" foreigners to play in their countries, sad for the koreans that they can't just take a plane to AM and steal all that regions price money in two weeks and then just fly home anymore. Its a very fair format and it is the very point behind actually having a regional system, AM has money invested in it. Why should korea just steal it away, let them play in their region, not AMs fault that korea doesn't invest in their ówn scene. If you think people can just up and move their entire lives to somewhere else because Blizzard decided to region lock WCS, then you're delusional. 1) The level of play in America will be an absolute joke. There will also be no reason for WCS AM players to ever improve, because they'll be playing against Americans the entire time. There's no challenge. Qxc said it best when he said that they don't need the Koreans OUT of WCS, they need them to stick around consistently enough to raise the level of play. 2) Korea NEEDS another tournament. GSL is NOT enough to saturate the Korean scene and retirements will flood in like crazy if these changes are implemented. There is no chance for 99% of Koreans in GSL and there is no hope for anyone to come through. 3) The WCS finals will be an absolute joke of a tournament. It'll be Americans and Europeans, who had neither incentive nor possibility to improve getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by the best of the best Koreans. That's not interesting. You can have that at any given foreign event. Blizzcon loses its status as the biggest finals of the year to just another weekend tournament where you'll already be able to narrow down the winner to about 5-10 players, depending on how many good Koreans make it. HORRIBLE changes in my opinion. 1) Koreans have zero reason to stick in America with the current system as well. The new changes will change absolutely nothing. ^^ 2) Obviously, but Korea needed another tournament for a long time. I have no idea why there is only GSL anyway. 3) Europeans will still be playing their Koreans on ladder. So their skills will only increase. NA already has weaker players qualify for Blizzconn (pigbaby) The changes affect none of your points 1) The WCS AM Koreans at least had to have a certain ladder rank to qualify and had to play in qualifiers. Besides, playing on the American server to prepare for matches where you'll have the same kind of delay MIGHT be quite helpful, you know? And I know for a fact that a lot of WCS Koreans actually DID play on the NA server, at least part of their time. You're wrong. 2) There is no second tournament in Korea because SC2 wasn't big enough there. That's why OGN bailed. 3) The "European" Koreans all live in Europe, so that over there will stay the same. But you know why? Because MC and his manager or GEM or whoever, somebody has enough money to open an actual team house there. How many Koreans would you say have that kind of money to just go "alright, let me move to the US and be a progamer there!"? Who pays for it? Also, if you think that Pigbaby isn't LEAGUES better than any Americans, then you're wrong. NA also had players like Taeja, HerO, Polt, Byul, Revival, Bomber. Those players, when in shape, CAN compete with the best Koreans. They've done it for years. Having those players in an American tournament surely gives incentive to improve, and gives those American players a chance to simply PLAY against good Koreans? That experience alone is worth it. As it will be after this, they'll just be playing other Americans. No incentive to improve massively, not even a chance to play against some of the highest level players. And then, at the end of the year, they'll get to play the ABSOLUTE BEST at Blizzcon, and they're going to get utterly slaughtered. How fun. 1) I am pretty sure the amount of games is so so small that it practically had no effect on the average skill level of NA ladder. So no you are wrong. 2) Well if SC2 is not big enough then maybe yes some players should just retire. If the scene is too small there is no need for more progamers. 3) So MC, a single person, has more power than any progamer team? ^^ Maybe some teams should just cease to exist then. Any progamer can compete with the best Koreans if they are in shape. HerO, Revival, Bomber, Pigbaby are NOT blizzcon worthy if you really want the ABSOLUTE BEST. Your problem is that you want WCS to sustain a niche market that already has too many players. There are too many Korean SC2 progamers for Korea to sustain. WCS is only delaying the inevitable - retirements. IF the changes to the WCS systems forces retirements they were coming anyway. Ask yourself the question if you'd rather be a 18 year old with no education and work experience or a 21 year old with no education and work experience? This change will actually save a lot of lives for the future. I won't even bother to respond to this.
but you just did
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EPT
