Upcoming Changes to WCS 2015 - Page 32

WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it.

Incognoto

France10239 Posts

September 05 2014 09:35 GMT

#621

Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?

That's so questionable.

Actually that's flat-out stupid.

ptbl

United States6074 Posts

September 05 2014 09:36 GMT

#622

I am against this type of region lock. I have always been against it. The viewership for WCS NA has been steadily increasing from season to season. I feel like we have a good system in.place with all the regional qualifiers feeding into WCS NA. Not sure why we need to have a region lock. People have grown fond of people like Hyun, Taeja, HerO, etc. Storyline and history will be shattered. I think we should stay the course and make only minor tweaks.

sharkie

Austria18582 Posts

September 05 2014 09:38 GMT

#623

On September 05 2014 18:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 05 2014 18:32 sharkie wrote:

On September 05 2014 18:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:

On September 05 2014 18:02 sharkie wrote:

On September 05 2014 17:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:

On September 05 2014 17:43 Shuffleblade wrote:

On September 05 2014 17:34 Swisslink wrote:

On September 05 2014 17:32 sharkie wrote:

On September 05 2014 17:25 Vindicare605 wrote:

On September 05 2014 17:24 sharkie wrote:
This is the best possible solution.

Now if prize money gets adapted to this change its literally perfect.
Why is there so much discussion about it going on?

Because clearly your conclusion is not agreed upon by everyone.

But why?
Getting a work visa is not that hard and isn't it obvious that players that play their qualifiers in Korea and then only fly to NA/EU for the Ro16+ is a stupid system?

Well, It'd be even more stupid to basically kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL the Koreans to play in Korea. During Proleague most Koreans won't go abroad too often, only 32 players will be in Code S most likely, 3 Code S per season... I don't think it's a fair format.
Koreans will have a harder time qualifying for Code A than players in WCS NA will have to win the premier league.

"Kill the Korean scene by forcing ALL koreans to play in korea"?

You obviously haven't even read the post.

1) Koreans can play whereever they want as long as they reside there. Thats the whole point of "regional" tournaments.
2) So we are "killing" the korean scene by foring them to abide the rules that all other players from other regions have to follow? Like others have pointed out earlier in this thread GSL forces you to stay in korea for the whole tournament if you want to compete in it. Effectively "forcing" foreigners to play in their countries, sad for the koreans that they can't just take a plane to AM and steal all that regions price money in two weeks and then just fly home anymore.

Its a very fair format and it is the very point behind actually having a regional system, AM has money invested in it. Why should korea just steal it away, let them play in their region, not AMs fault that korea doesn't invest in their ówn scene.

If you think people can just up and move their entire lives to somewhere else because Blizzard decided to region lock WCS, then you're delusional.

1) The level of play in America will be an absolute joke. There will also be no reason for WCS AM players to ever improve, because they'll be playing against Americans the entire time. There's no challenge. Qxc said it best when he said that they don't need the Koreans OUT of WCS, they need them to stick around consistently enough to raise the level of play.
2) Korea NEEDS another tournament. GSL is NOT enough to saturate the Korean scene and retirements will flood in like crazy if these changes are implemented. There is no chance for 99% of Koreans in GSL and there is no hope for anyone to come through.
3) The WCS finals will be an absolute joke of a tournament. It'll be Americans and Europeans, who had neither incentive nor possibility to improve getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by the best of the best Koreans. That's not interesting. You can have that at any given foreign event. Blizzcon loses its status as the biggest finals of the year to just another weekend tournament where you'll already be able to narrow down the winner to about 5-10 players, depending on how many good Koreans make it.

HORRIBLE changes in my opinion.

1) Koreans have zero reason to stick in America with the current system as well. The new changes will change absolutely nothing. ^^
2) Obviously, but Korea needed another tournament for a long time. I have no idea why there is only GSL anyway.
3) Europeans will still be playing their Koreans on ladder. So their skills will only increase. NA already has weaker players qualify for Blizzconn (pigbaby)

The changes affect none of your points

1) The WCS AM Koreans at least had to have a certain ladder rank to qualify and had to play in qualifiers. Besides, playing on the American server to prepare for matches where you'll have the same kind of delay MIGHT be quite helpful, you know? And I know for a fact that a lot of WCS Koreans actually DID play on the NA server, at least part of their time. You're wrong.
2) There is no second tournament in Korea because SC2 wasn't big enough there. That's why OGN bailed.
3) The "European" Koreans all live in Europe, so that over there will stay the same. But you know why? Because MC and his manager or GEM or whoever, somebody has enough money to open an actual team house there. How many Koreans would you say have that kind of money to just go "alright, let me move to the US and be a progamer there!"? Who pays for it?
Also, if you think that Pigbaby isn't LEAGUES better than any Americans, then you're wrong. NA also had players like Taeja, HerO, Polt, Byul, Revival, Bomber. Those players, when in shape, CAN compete with the best Koreans. They've done it for years. Having those players in an American tournament surely gives incentive to improve, and gives those American players a chance to simply PLAY against good Koreans? That experience alone is worth it. As it will be after this, they'll just be playing other Americans. No incentive to improve massively, not even a chance to play against some of the highest level players. And then, at the end of the year, they'll get to play the ABSOLUTE BEST at Blizzcon, and they're going to get utterly slaughtered. How fun.

1) I am pretty sure the amount of games is so so small that it practically had no effect on the average skill level of NA ladder. So no you are wrong.

2) Well if SC2 is not big enough then maybe yes some players should just retire. If the scene is too small there is no need for more progamers.
3) So MC, a single person, has more power than any progamer team? ^^ Maybe some teams should just cease to exist then. Any progamer can compete with the best Koreans if they are in shape. HerO, Revival, Bomber, Pigbaby are NOT blizzcon worthy if you really want the ABSOLUTE BEST.

Your problem is that you want WCS to sustain a niche market that already has too many players. There are too many Korean SC2 progamers for Korea to sustain. WCS is only delaying the inevitable - retirements.

IF the changes to the WCS systems forces retirements they were coming anyway. Ask yourself the question if you'd rather be a 18 year old with no education and work experience or a 21 year old with no education and work experience?

This change will actually save a lot of lives for the future.

I won't even bother to respond to this.

Why not?
Do you just want to ignore reality? What will those progamers do once they are 50, no team behind them anymore, no money, no education.

This is esports biggest problem imo. It is not a career that can sustain your life and family to your 70s 80s

Incognoto

France10239 Posts

September 05 2014 09:38 GMT

#624

I'm curious to hear TB's thoughts on this. This is a huge kick in the stomach to Axiom, unless I'm mistaken.

E: not to mention that TB had visa problems before?

Shellshock

United States97276 Posts

September 05 2014 09:40 GMT

#625

On September 05 2014 18:38 Incognoto wrote:
I'm curious to hear TB's thoughts on this. This is a huge kick in the stomach to Axiom, unless I'm mistaken.

here they are

On September 05 2014 10:34 Noocta wrote:
Here's TotalBiscuit thoughts about this, dunno if he would post them here himself..

https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/thoughts-on-the-2015-wcs-changes

Incognoto

France10239 Posts

September 05 2014 09:41 GMT

#626

Oh, thanks!

Dingodile

4139 Posts

September 05 2014 09:41 GMT

#627

WCS EU and KR are gonna be much more interesting than ever before in HotS. No idea about NA. Slightly unfair if NA has the same prizepool as EU. If WCS wants to throw more money into prizepool then EU get 5k more and rest (>5k) goes to korea.

RowdierBob

Australia13298 Posts

September 05 2014 09:43 GMT

#628

I think this would have been a better idea a few years back.

But the US region is so weak outside the Koreans that it'll be a real B league. On the other hand it'll be good to see the WCG style tournament back again with lots of countries represented.

Desive

Spain13 Posts

September 05 2014 09:46 GMT

#629

I think GSL should get more places in the tournament for Code A atleast, even Code S. Maybe that way, not so many koreans would have to retire, but still, Bliizard/GSL would have to invest a lot more money in the prize pool.

Shield

Bulgaria4824 Posts

September 05 2014 09:46 GMT

#630

On September 05 2014 18:43 RowdierBob wrote:
I think this would have been a better idea a few years back.

But the US region is so weak outside the Koreans that it'll be a real B league. On the other hand it'll be good to see the WCG style tournament back again with lots of countries represented.

If that's the case, then Blizzard may unite WCS America and WCS Europe. The goal to promote foreigners is still respected.

HsDLTitich

Italy831 Posts

September 05 2014 09:47 GMT

#631

WCG sucked balls anyway.

On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote:
Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?

That's so questionable.

Actually that's flat-out stupid.

Totally agreed.

sharkie

Austria18582 Posts

September 05 2014 09:49 GMT

#632

If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.

No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.

Morbidius

Brazil3449 Posts

September 05 2014 09:50 GMT

#633

Blizzard needs to save Korean scene ASAP, as if wasn't already oversaturated enough.

Lunareste

United States3596 Posts

September 05 2014 09:50 GMT

#634

Now that I think about it, I feel sorry for the FANS who follow their favorite Koreans in WCS AM/EU.

They're here one day, and Blizzard ordains they be gone the next. Not everyone fan has the opportunity to stay upuntil absurd hours in order to watch the GSL and Proleague.

FueledUpAndReadyToGo

Netherlands30548 Posts

September 05 2014 09:51 GMT

#635

I wonder if we'll see Europeans move to NA for easy money now

Shellshock

United States97276 Posts

September 05 2014 09:51 GMT

#636

On September 05 2014 18:50 Lunareste wrote:
Now that I think about it, I feel sorry for the FANS who follow their favorite Koreans in WCS AM/EU.

They're here one day, and Blizzard ordains they be gone the next. Not everyone fan has the opportunity to stay upuntil absurd hours in order to watch the GSL and Proleague.

Maybe it's a ploy by Red Bull to get more people to buy energy drinks to stay up and watch

Creager

Germany1923 Posts

September 05 2014 09:51 GMT

#637

Agreed.

Incognoto

France10239 Posts

September 05 2014 09:52 GMT

#638

On September 05 2014 18:40 Shellshock wrote:

Show nested quote +

here they are

Show nested quote +

Listening to this.

So many feels.

Blizzard you are terrible.

I half feel that action has to be taken out of Blizzard's scope. To sustain both Korea's scene and the foreign scene.

Koreigners were actually legitimately healthy for the foreign scene as well. Blizzard pls

Makro

France16890 Posts

September 05 2014 09:52 GMT

#639

On September 05 2014 18:49 sharkie wrote:

Show nested quote +

If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.

No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.

this

it's not like blizzard denied wcs eu/na to any person who is korean, now you need to invest yourself to go there

sharkie

Austria18582 Posts

September 05 2014 09:54 GMT

#640

On September 05 2014 18:52 Incognoto wrote:

Show nested quote +

Any sport forces their athletes to move to different countries if they want the best out of their career.
Even sports MUCH SMALLER than esports.

God guys, stop whining. You guys want esports respected like a real sport then also take the consequences

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