On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote: Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?
That's so questionable.
Actually that's flat-out stupid.
If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.
No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.
You act as if housing and visas are obtained from a supermarket. dumbass
Football players are also overpaid for what they do, in my eyes. Outside of my personal views, football players are still filthy rich, it's not difficult for them to obtain visa/housing, considering their money and how much football is established.
So stop with the dumb comparaisons. this is esports and even in esports, sc2 is a niche. so stop spouting nonsense
On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote: Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?
That's so questionable.
Actually that's flat-out stupid.
If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.
No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.
You act as if housing and visas are obtained from a supermarket. dumbass
Football players are also overpaid for what they do, in my eyes. Outside of my personal views, football players are still filthy rich, it's not difficult for them to obtain visa/housing, considering their money and how much football is established.
So stop with the dumb comparaisons. this is esports and even in esports, sc2 is a niche. so stop spouting nonsense
There are sports much much smaller than SC2 with athletes who earn NOTHING compared to SC2 players.
They manage to do it. Why should esports be any different?
No solid examples or arguments. You're just saying things without any evidence whatsoever.
Either way, if what you say is true, it's still bullshit. Starcraft 2 is different from sports and different even from other esports. So unless you bring actual rational arguments to the table, please just be quiet.
I generally don't get annoyed when it comes to starcraft drama but let's just face it, Blizzard is being fucking retarded here. To think that people defend fucking retarded decisions irks me like nothing else.
On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote: Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?
That's so questionable.
Actually that's flat-out stupid.
If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.
No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.
The football analogy doesn't work for a variety of reasons. First of all, decent football players can more than sustain themselves because there is a million times more money going around in football than in SC. Secondly, football is a physical sport - they couldn't play on an international team from their country of origin even if they wanted to. Thirdly, a football career has much greater longevity than an SC2 career - if you're going to uproot your life, it makes sense if you have a fifteen-year career ahead of you. But for two-three years?
Of course their careers are important to them. That doesn't mean they can "move to EU/NA" just like that. There are barriers in form of language, funding, visa issues and other things. The fact that you're making this comparison tells me that you may not fully realize the difficulty of making a move overseas happen.
i don't think this is a chicken little situation but it's certainly shaken things up massively. I'm provisionally in favour of it although I feel bad for the koreans who participated in NA... the gsl is fucking stacked lately, I imagine quite a few of them are going to find themselves relegated to code B for some time.
although with more koreans lazing about in korea...mayhap another proleague team or two?
If you want examples open up your local newspaper and read stories about sports you have never ever heard before. I read them a lot where athletes have their residence in China or Vietnam just to live out their dream.
On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote: Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?
That's so questionable.
Actually that's flat-out stupid.
If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.
No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.
The football analogy doesn't work for a variety of reasons. First of all, decent football players can more than sustain themselves because there is a million times more money going around in football than in SC. Secondly, football is a physical sport - they couldn't play on an international team from their country of origin even if they wanted to. Thirdly, a football career has much greater longevity than an SC2 career - if you're going to uproot your life, it makes sense if you have a fifteen-year career ahead of you. But for two-three years?
Of course their careers are important to them. That doesn't mean they can "move to EU/NA" just like that. There are barriers in form of language, funding, visa issues and other things. The fact that you're making this comparison tells me that you may not fully realize the difficulty of making a move overseas happen.
Unlike others my family has moved overseas for a job worth much less than any esports career. It is not hard if you commit to it. But that's what you do for your dreams you commit to them or you give them up.
On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote: Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?
That's so questionable.
Actually that's flat-out stupid.
If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.
No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.
You act as if housing and visas are obtained from a supermarket. dumbass
Football players are also overpaid for what they do, in my eyes. Outside of my personal views, football players are still filthy rich, it's not difficult for them to obtain visa/housing, considering their money and how much football is established.
So stop with the dumb comparaisons. this is esports and even in esports, sc2 is a niche. so stop spouting nonsense
There are sports much much smaller than SC2 with athletes who earn NOTHING compared to SC2 players.
They manage to do it. Why should esports be any different?
sport (doesnt matter if big or small) is recognized, esports doesnt (except few countries), thats why visa and housing permission is so difficult in esports.
On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote: Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?
That's so questionable.
Actually that's flat-out stupid.
If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.
No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.
The football analogy doesn't work for a variety of reasons. First of all, decent football players can more than sustain themselves because there is a million times more money going around in football than in SC. Secondly, football is a physical sport - they couldn't play on an international team from their country of origin even if they wanted to. Thirdly, a football career has much greater longevity than an SC2 career - if you're going to uproot your life, it makes sense if you have a fifteen-year career ahead of you. But for two-three years?
Of course their careers are important to them. That doesn't mean they can "move to EU/NA" just like that. There are barriers in form of language, funding, visa issues and other things. The fact that you're making this comparison tells me that you may not fully realize the difficulty of making a move overseas happen.
Unlike others my family has moved overseas for a job worth much less than any esports career. It is not hard if you commit to it. But that's what you do for your dreams you commit to them or you give them up.
On September 05 2014 18:35 Incognoto wrote: Good Koreans who are better than foreigners are too numerous, so they have to give up their pro-gaming career so that bad foreigners are allowed to be pro-gamers while being bad?
That's so questionable.
Actually that's flat-out stupid.
If their career is so important to them they are welcome to move to EU/NA.
No football player LIVES at his country of origin. Every sports athlete moves to the country of occupation.
You act as if housing and visas are obtained from a supermarket. dumbass
Football players are also overpaid for what they do, in my eyes. Outside of my personal views, football players are still filthy rich, it's not difficult for them to obtain visa/housing, considering their money and how much football is established.
So stop with the dumb comparaisons. this is esports and even in esports, sc2 is a niche. so stop spouting nonsense
There are sports much much smaller than SC2 with athletes who earn NOTHING compared to SC2 players.
They manage to do it. Why should esports be any different?
sport (doesnt matter if big or small) is recognized, esports doesnt (except few countries), thats why visa and housing permission is so difficult in esports.
Yeah that's obviously a big problem. Countries that don't recognize esports as a real sport are the only real problem in this change. But maybe now there will be more incentive to change this, either by blizzard, progamers or by the community itself.
I just think most of you guys think too short term. WCS system is fine for a short time but it does not solve the bigger problems
The very idea of a regional league of some sorts without regional restrictions barely made any sense. In GSL, you had to be in Korea throughout most of the season. WCS 2013 was supposed to be an expansion of SC2 global competition, but it rather introduced the collapse of the GSL, our best working competition until then. The GSL (and GSTL by extension) has completely lost its players that they have spent 2,5 years building up and thus its brand value. Of course, that coincided with KeSPA players joining in and that GSL is secondary to Proleague.
The residency requirement was always the way to go. Yes, we want Koreans in the EU and AM region, but they should be part of our culture ingame and out of our game, they should play our ladder, they should interact with our players and our community. The goal to spend as little time as possible in the region they play in as we have seen in 2013 is a complete perversion of the region idea. And, to be completely honest, it's about having the right number of Koreans. Enough to raise the skill to a decent level and bringing in Korean style of play, but not too many, to have a competition in which local players can grow and perform.
The "WCS is becoming a welfare for foreign players" is silly. If Korea produces significantly more than players than Korea could ever realistically handle (even with the global interest in South Korea), then it is not helping anyone if you push that problem to the global stage. Shouldn't this be more considered as welfare than the construction of competitions in regions that were interested in SC2 in the first place and could grow and sustain them? If so, then every national sports league in the world would be a "welfare". BUT: The problem is that the leagues were made equal and that they were all in the hands of Blizzard rather than autonomous leagues that compete for attention. It would be okay for Blizzard to finance (like the GSL) and coordinate the leagues (which was necessary back then), but the fact that everything was to be made artificially equal what was not equal created an environment that stifled growth rather than accelerate it.
With that being said, looking forward, I don't know if the change will turn things around. Timing, as always in SC2, is important. Is it too late to grow the pro scene? Will the viewers that left because of the lack of local players come back? Will GSL ever be close as popular as back then? Will the drop in skill make games less entertaining in the EU/AM regions? Back in late 2012/2013 one could argue that growing the foreign scene was as important for the Koreans as for the foreigners because an overall growth for SC2 would benefit Koreans in the long term, too. In these days, the scene must plan short term as nobody knows or is pretty pessimistic what will happen in long term.
The residency requirement was always the way to go. Yes, we want Koreans in the EU and AM region, but they should be part of our culture ingame and out of our game, they should play our ladder, they should interact with our players and our community.
They do? As far as I know? This is utterly false or am I wrong?
The "WCS is becoming a welfare for foreign players" is silly. If Korea produces significantly more than players than Korea could ever realistically handle (even with the global interest in South Korea), then it is not helping anyone if you push that problem to the global stage.
As far as I know, having Koreans leave Korea to participate in foreign events increases the level of foreign play. So, by moving to WCS AM / EU, Koreigners help lift the load from Korea and at the same time, they're beneficial to the scene they're in. This is because they ladder, interact with the scene and so on. The level of play goes up and you'll see that all the good foreigners are actually happy with this. Why break something that isn't broken?
This is just a huge middle finger to all the Koreans who took the time to participate in WCS foreigners, in particular Axiom who just received a huge slap in the face. Blizzard's justification of this is non-existent. So screw you blizzard.
EPT
