EPT>game fixed
Balance Test Map Soon July 8th - Page 10
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Digitalis
United States1043 Posts
>game fixed | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 09 2014 05:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Excellent! Widow Mine buff will help a LOT. It used to do 40 damage flat, but now the AOE is much huger. The AOE from 1.75 to 2.5 is 9.6 units to 19.6. That's more than 2 times the area! This re-geared WM will surely be interesting; the increased splash (despite still doing 40/20/10 damage) will help its effectiveness in the lategame and help terran's lategame in general. Increased friendly fire splash can potentially create cool micro situations for both sides (namely bio) while it could be much less of a problem for mech. It wouldn't hurt to help mech out more! The splash will also make them a much more reliable substitute for banshees/ghosts to deal with Immortal's shields and Archons and help mech be more aggressive early on and not have to always wait it out so long. Can't wait for aggressive WM focused Mech styles to be strong again! Thor change is interesting. Didn't it prioritize air units in WoL? Anyway, great that it's reverted (?) as having to click on mutas sorta sucks. Time Warp? Doesn't really matter but it looks good. 30 seconds seems unnecessary; 15 seconds really is long enough. When was mech+WMs ever a thing? I hardly ever see any WM usage with mech, save the occasional TvT where one gets surprised by a BC switch. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote: Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash. why. You are already stronger than T. | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
Why thank you, but my PvT is actually my worst matchup, PvP is my best.  | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:13 Larkin wrote: Why thank you, but my PvT is actually my worst matchup, PvP is my best. I was talking about P in general | ||
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FireCake
151 Posts
I guess this is because David kim accustomed us to horrible changes. 1- This change is terrible. Window mine has very random effect, sometimes very good detonation, sometimes very bad. The increase of the splash radius only increase the variance of the results. What does it mean ? It means that we will have stupid games where the terran gets 2 very good detonations then goes straight for the kill, or some lucky shots for the zerg like 2 zerglings dying and take 20 marines with them allowing the zerg to snowball and win the game. In a game where the goal is to have 2 opponents face each other and react to opponent decisions, what's the point to let the random decide the outcome of the fight ? 2- It seems not to be a big change, i don't really know what to think about this one, good players will of course focus units so it might be a useless change. 3- I guess that too many protoss won tournaments, and there are too many whine, so David Kim decided to do some random useless nerf to believe that the game is more and more balanced. This change is, in most case, useless. The units caught under a timewarp never live more than 10 seconds. This spell should have a downside, i think friendly fire could be a good idea, protoss players will no longer be able to throw 2 random timewarp and leaving the opponent with 2 choices : attack and lose their army for nothing or back and lose some units for free (and sometime one base). Again, this patch is coming at the wrong moment, the new map pool disturbs a lot the meta . Why patch the game now ? The new map pool is terran favored, why not wait a little bit ? | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
I know... | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
Because the WM splash + it's bonus damage to shields makes zealot templar styles far weaker - we already saw this style decreasing a lot after the previous buff to WM, so that the current meta is far more favorable towards colossus first instead of storm first play. Adding this new WM buff without changing this, would just eliminate the entire style from existence, greatly hurting diversity in the matchup while doing nothing against the things that make terran struggle so much in tvp. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:22 H0i wrote: Because the WM splash + it's bonus damage to shields makes zealot templar styles far weaker - we already saw this style decreasing a lot after the previous buff to WM, so that the current meta is far more favorable towards colossus first instead of storm first play. Adding this new WM buff without changing this, would just eliminate the entire style from existence, greatly hurting diversity in the matchup while doing nothing against the things that make terran struggle so much in tvp. Too bad for them. Restricting the number of opening they can do is always good for T. You won't wonder for 10min if it's a 2nd starport or a ghost accademy that you will need. And it will be more punitive to moveclic without micro for the P. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:26 Faust852 wrote: Too bad for them. Restricting the number of opening they can do is always good for T. You won't wonder for 10min if it's a 2nd starport or a ghost accademy that you will need. And it will be more punitive to moveclic without micro for the P. Bullshit. We shouldn't limit the styles of protoss and remove one of their major techpaths as an opener because you want to make terran stronger. Why do people always argue they want mech to work against protoss? Because it's a completely different playstyle which will make the matchup more diverse. Zealot templar style has been around for a long time, and it existed in WOL during eras of terran dominance. There is no reason to make it useless. It is quite easy to identify as well.. but if scouting is a problem for terran why not make their scouting better instead of removing an entire playstyle. Or do you want to see colossus blink stalkers play opening in literally every pvt macrogame? | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:30 H0i wrote: Bullshit. We shouldn't limit the styles of protoss and remove one of their major techpaths as an opener because you want to make terran stronger. Why do people always argue they want mech to work against protoss? Because it's a completely different playstyle which will make the matchup more diverse. Zealot templar style has been around for a long time, and it existed in WOL during eras of terran dominance. There is no reason to make it useless. It is quite easy to identify as well.. but if scouting is a problem for terran why not make their scouting better instead of removing an entire playstyle. Or do you want to see colossus blink stalkers play opening in literally every pvt macrogame? Everything is problematic in TvP. While midgame is quite strong for T if the P decide to go macro, it sucks ass against big 2 bases allin. There is no way to mke efficient scouting in TvP with the state of the game now. We will have to wait for LotV. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind P being forced to play a much more predictable style for the time being. All in all you would still see all the tecch unit protoss have, like it is nowadays, and T will be much more solid since they will know what will happen. Mech in TvP won't come before LotV too, so I don't care about this style. HT first or Colo first don't change, in fine, everything is the same since 2010. The MU is exactly identical. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
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Disciple7seveN
France28 Posts
That being said, I still don't like the change to the widow mine... I feel like the unit as a whole was a quick fix for a long standing problem... It might help things out for the top 1% of Terrans to whom targeting them in the middle of a battle is a possibility, but for the majority of Terrans, this is not going to go too far to help the rest of us overcome the Deathballs and eternally replaceable swarms we have to micro our hearts out against just to break even. Neither will Thor target priorities or 15 secs off timewarp. And why is Terran the only race that actually has to deal with friendly splash damage? How does that make sense? Any solution that doesn't change the fundamental way the Terran race works will not change the balance BUT for the top pros and M/GMs. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:16 FireCake wrote: Its sad to see so many people satisfied by these changes. I guess this is because David kim accustomed us to horrible changes. My thoughts exactly. I think people just want a protoss nerf and they don't care how they get it. | ||
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TwiggyWan
France336 Posts
Also as a mech player i very welcome a thor buff but it's like they remove yet another micro aspect of the game :/ | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:57 TwiggyWan wrote: Changes aren't bad in themselves but they are still dodging the photon overcharge problem by trying to patch the hull somewhere else :/ Also as a mech player i very welcome a thor buff but it's like they remove yet another micro aspect of the game :/ You will have to target fire Thors every time there is an overlord or overseer or medivac around. | ||
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
On July 09 2014 06:35 Faust852 wrote: Everything is problematic in TvP. While midgame is quite strong for T if the P decide to go macro, it sucks ass against big 2 bases allin. There is no way to mke efficient scouting in TvP with the state of the game now. We will have to wait for LotV. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind P being forced to play a much more predictable style for the time being. All in all you would still see all the tecch unit protoss have, like it is nowadays, and T will be much more solid since they will know what will happen. Mech in TvP won't come before LotV too, so I don't care about this style. HT first or Colo first don't change, in fine, everything is the same since 2010. The MU is exactly identical. This is quite true. Each individual opening is not a major threat for T, but the extent of possibilities and the difference in responding to them forces the terran to have to accept whatever the P does without being able to take advantage of it. This is, I think, the core problem of the matchup. If the T knew what the P would do, they would be more or less on equal footing, whereas the P has all the information he needs if he knows there's an expansion. I don't think the answer is giving T a free maphack, and I enjoy the variety of opening of P. I actually think it's an incredibly fine balance without simple magical solution, and D. Kim is not doing a bad job. A tough job for sure. | ||
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