• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:35
CEST 17:35
KST 00:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach0[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach StarCraft Human 'N' AI League BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Total Annihilation Zero Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9777 users

Balance Test Map Soon July 8th - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
631 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
Digitalis
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1043 Posts
July 08 2014 21:00 GMT
#181
If only they made it so that you had to actually micro photon overcharge instead of f clicking and forgetting about it
>game fixed
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
July 08 2014 21:05 GMT
#182
On July 09 2014 05:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Excellent!

Widow Mine buff will help a LOT. It used to do 40 damage flat, but now the AOE is much huger. The AOE from 1.75 to 2.5 is 9.6 units to 19.6. That's more than 2 times the area! This re-geared WM will surely be interesting; the increased splash (despite still doing 40/20/10 damage) will help its effectiveness in the lategame and help terran's lategame in general. Increased friendly fire splash can potentially create cool micro situations for both sides (namely bio) while it could be much less of a problem for mech. It wouldn't hurt to help mech out more! The splash will also make them a much more reliable substitute for banshees/ghosts to deal with Immortal's shields and Archons and help mech be more aggressive early on and not have to always wait it out so long.

Can't wait for aggressive WM focused Mech styles to be strong again!


Thor change is interesting. Didn't it prioritize air units in WoL? Anyway, great that it's reverted (?) as having to click on mutas sorta sucks.

Time Warp? Doesn't really matter but it looks good. 30 seconds seems unnecessary; 15 seconds really is long enough.

When was mech+WMs ever a thing? I hardly ever see any WM usage with mech, save the occasional TvT where one gets surprised by a BC switch.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
July 08 2014 21:09 GMT
#183
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.
https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
July 08 2014 21:09 GMT
#184
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
July 08 2014 21:11 GMT
#185
I was hoping they would add back siege tanks to HotS. They were good in WoL / SC1, don't know why they removed it.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
July 08 2014 21:13 GMT
#186
On July 09 2014 06:09 Faust852 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.


Why thank you, but my PvT is actually my worst matchup, PvP is my best.
https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
July 08 2014 21:14 GMT
#187
On July 09 2014 06:13 Larkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 06:09 Faust852 wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.


Why thank you, but my PvT is actually my worst matchup, PvP is my best.


I was talking about P in general
FireCake
Profile Joined March 2013
151 Posts
July 08 2014 21:16 GMT
#188
Its sad to see so many people satisfied by these changes.
I guess this is because David kim accustomed us to horrible changes.

1- This change is terrible. Window mine has very random effect, sometimes very good detonation, sometimes very bad.
The increase of the splash radius only increase the variance of the results.
What does it mean ? It means that we will have stupid games where the terran gets 2 very good detonations then goes straight for the kill, or some lucky shots for the zerg like 2 zerglings dying and take 20 marines with them allowing the zerg to snowball and win the game.
In a game where the goal is to have 2 opponents face each other and react to opponent decisions, what's the point to let the random decide the outcome of the fight ?

2- It seems not to be a big change, i don't really know what to think about this one, good players will of course focus units so it might be a useless change.

3- I guess that too many protoss won tournaments, and there are too many whine, so David Kim decided to do some random useless nerf to believe that the game is more and more balanced.
This change is, in most case, useless. The units caught under a timewarp never live more than 10 seconds.
This spell should have a downside, i think friendly fire could be a good idea, protoss players will no longer be able to throw 2 random timewarp and leaving the opponent with 2 choices : attack and lose their army for nothing or back and lose some units for free (and sometime one base).

Again, this patch is coming at the wrong moment, the new map pool disturbs a lot the meta . Why patch the game now ?
The new map pool is terran favored, why not wait a little bit ?
Progamer
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
July 08 2014 21:17 GMT
#189
On July 09 2014 06:14 Faust852 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 06:13 Larkin wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Faust852 wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.


Why thank you, but my PvT is actually my worst matchup, PvP is my best.


I was talking about P in general


I know...
https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
H0i
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands484 Posts
July 08 2014 21:22 GMT
#190
On July 09 2014 06:09 Faust852 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.


Because the WM splash + it's bonus damage to shields makes zealot templar styles far weaker - we already saw this style decreasing a lot after the previous buff to WM, so that the current meta is far more favorable towards colossus first instead of storm first play. Adding this new WM buff without changing this, would just eliminate the entire style from existence, greatly hurting diversity in the matchup while doing nothing against the things that make terran struggle so much in tvp.
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
July 08 2014 21:26 GMT
#191
On July 09 2014 06:22 H0i wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 06:09 Faust852 wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.


Because the WM splash + it's bonus damage to shields makes zealot templar styles far weaker - we already saw this style decreasing a lot after the previous buff to WM, so that the current meta is far more favorable towards colossus first instead of storm first play. Adding this new WM buff without changing this, would just eliminate the entire style from existence, greatly hurting diversity in the matchup while doing nothing against the things that make terran struggle so much in tvp.


Too bad for them. Restricting the number of opening they can do is always good for T. You won't wonder for 10min if it's a 2nd starport or a ghost accademy that you will need. And it will be more punitive to moveclic without micro for the P.
H0i
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands484 Posts
July 08 2014 21:30 GMT
#192
On July 09 2014 06:26 Faust852 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 06:22 H0i wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Faust852 wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.


Because the WM splash + it's bonus damage to shields makes zealot templar styles far weaker - we already saw this style decreasing a lot after the previous buff to WM, so that the current meta is far more favorable towards colossus first instead of storm first play. Adding this new WM buff without changing this, would just eliminate the entire style from existence, greatly hurting diversity in the matchup while doing nothing against the things that make terran struggle so much in tvp.


Too bad for them. Restricting the number of opening they can do is always good for T. You won't wonder for 10min if it's a 2nd starport or a ghost accademy that you will need. And it will be more punitive to moveclic without micro for the P.


Bullshit. We shouldn't limit the styles of protoss and remove one of their major techpaths as an opener because you want to make terran stronger. Why do people always argue they want mech to work against protoss? Because it's a completely different playstyle which will make the matchup more diverse. Zealot templar style has been around for a long time, and it existed in WOL during eras of terran dominance. There is no reason to make it useless.

It is quite easy to identify as well.. but if scouting is a problem for terran why not make their scouting better instead of removing an entire playstyle. Or do you want to see colossus blink stalkers play opening in literally every pvt macrogame?
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
July 08 2014 21:31 GMT
#193
The timewarp change is really good and I would implement that too. Will make the ability way more fair and give opportunities for counterplay. The other changes though are pretty horrible and won´t help terran a bit in TvZ.
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
July 08 2014 21:35 GMT
#194
On July 09 2014 06:30 H0i wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 06:26 Faust852 wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:22 H0i wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Faust852 wrote:
On July 09 2014 06:09 Larkin wrote:
Mines even stronger vs P now ;; get rid of +shields bullshit and just have more splash.

why. You are already stronger than T.


Because the WM splash + it's bonus damage to shields makes zealot templar styles far weaker - we already saw this style decreasing a lot after the previous buff to WM, so that the current meta is far more favorable towards colossus first instead of storm first play. Adding this new WM buff without changing this, would just eliminate the entire style from existence, greatly hurting diversity in the matchup while doing nothing against the things that make terran struggle so much in tvp.


Too bad for them. Restricting the number of opening they can do is always good for T. You won't wonder for 10min if it's a 2nd starport or a ghost accademy that you will need. And it will be more punitive to moveclic without micro for the P.


Bullshit. We shouldn't limit the styles of protoss and remove one of their major techpaths as an opener because you want to make terran stronger. Why do people always argue they want mech to work against protoss? Because it's a completely different playstyle which will make the matchup more diverse. Zealot templar style has been around for a long time, and it existed in WOL during eras of terran dominance. There is no reason to make it useless.

It is quite easy to identify as well.. but if scouting is a problem for terran why not make their scouting better instead of removing an entire playstyle. Or do you want to see colossus blink stalkers play opening in literally every pvt macrogame?


Everything is problematic in TvP. While midgame is quite strong for T if the P decide to go macro, it sucks ass against big 2 bases allin.
There is no way to mke efficient scouting in TvP with the state of the game now. We will have to wait for LotV. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind P being forced to play a much more predictable style for the time being. All in all you would still see all the tecch unit protoss have, like it is nowadays, and T will be much more solid since they will know what will happen.
Mech in TvP won't come before LotV too, so I don't care about this style.
HT first or Colo first don't change, in fine, everything is the same since 2010. The MU is exactly identical.
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
July 08 2014 21:45 GMT
#195
I don't think the time warp change really does anything for TvP. It affects ZvP for sure, but if it's also a TvP targeted change, maybe they should consider halving the effect instead of the duration. The first 15 seconds is usually when the terran loses the fight or even the game in the first place, so halving the duration isn't going to significantly going to change that. At 15 seconds it loses some zoning ability late game, I guess, but it's far better to combine it with storm than zone out the terran army.
Disciple7seveN
Profile Joined December 2009
France28 Posts
July 08 2014 21:48 GMT
#196
When people say 'the game/XvX is balanced' what I believe they're saying is 'I'm ok with how the game is being played now'. I can't help but notice that the majority of people I hear/read saying these things are not Terran... Bottom line? The game will not be balanced until there is an approximately equal representation for each race in each league. Say what you will, but Terran has been thin in the upper leagues and majorly over-represented in the lower leagues for quite some time now. Let's not get so used to this fact that we define 'balance' as 'I'm used to the way things are'. (keep in mind, if, by some miracle, Blizz helps out T in LotV and it actually becomes equal, all you P and Z players are going to want to yell imbalance because you're used to Terran being so behind. You're used to the race that naturally floods the Bronze league. Resist the temptation to yell "imba")
That being said, I still don't like the change to the widow mine... I feel like the unit as a whole was a quick fix for a long standing problem... It might help things out for the top 1% of Terrans to whom targeting them in the middle of a battle is a possibility, but for the majority of Terrans, this is not going to go too far to help the rest of us overcome the Deathballs and eternally replaceable swarms we have to micro our hearts out against just to break even. Neither will Thor target priorities or 15 secs off timewarp.
And why is Terran the only race that actually has to deal with friendly splash damage? How does that make sense?
Any solution that doesn't change the fundamental way the Terran race works will not change the balance BUT for the top pros and M/GMs.
This one is constantly thinking, analyzing, strategizing. He showed no fear, but was curious, studying me in turn.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
July 08 2014 21:51 GMT
#197
On July 09 2014 06:16 FireCake wrote:
Its sad to see so many people satisfied by these changes.
I guess this is because David kim accustomed us to horrible changes.


My thoughts exactly. I think people just want a protoss nerf and they don't care how they get it.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
TwiggyWan
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
France342 Posts
July 08 2014 21:57 GMT
#198
Changes aren't bad in themselves but they are still dodging the photon overcharge problem by trying to patch the hull somewhere else :/

Also as a mech player i very welcome a thor buff but it's like they remove yet another micro aspect of the game :/
No bad days
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
July 08 2014 22:14 GMT
#199
On July 09 2014 06:57 TwiggyWan wrote:
Changes aren't bad in themselves but they are still dodging the photon overcharge problem by trying to patch the hull somewhere else :/

Also as a mech player i very welcome a thor buff but it's like they remove yet another micro aspect of the game :/

You will have to target fire Thors every time there is an overlord or overseer or medivac around.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
hfsrj
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany166 Posts
July 08 2014 22:18 GMT
#200
On July 09 2014 06:35 Faust852 wrote:

Everything is problematic in TvP. While midgame is quite strong for T if the P decide to go macro, it sucks ass against big 2 bases allin.
There is no way to mke efficient scouting in TvP with the state of the game now. We will have to wait for LotV. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind P being forced to play a much more predictable style for the time being. All in all you would still see all the tecch unit protoss have, like it is nowadays, and T will be much more solid since they will know what will happen.
Mech in TvP won't come before LotV too, so I don't care about this style.
HT first or Colo first don't change, in fine, everything is the same since 2010. The MU is exactly identical.


This is quite true. Each individual opening is not a major threat for T, but the extent of possibilities and the difference in responding to them forces the terran to have to accept whatever the P does without being able to take advantage of it.

This is, I think, the core problem of the matchup. If the T knew what the P would do, they would be more or less on equal footing, whereas the P has all the information he needs if he knows there's an expansion.

I don't think the answer is giving T a free maphack, and I enjoy the variety of opening of P. I actually think it's an incredibly fine balance without simple magical solution, and D. Kim is not doing a bad job. A tough job for sure.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Yamato Cup
15:00
#8
killerbeecast11
Discussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzStarbuck 213
BRAT_OK 48
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 69144
Shuttle 2444
EffOrt 1015
Mini 559
Light 505
Last 429
Rush 394
ZerO 394
Stork 322
firebathero 315
[ Show more ]
Snow 212
Mong 85
sorry 49
Hyun 42
Bale 32
HiyA 29
Trap 18
Terrorterran 15
Rock 13
Sexy 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Dota 2
Gorgc8539
qojqva1591
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1201
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King55
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor407
MindelVK17
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1530
B2W.Neo1154
Beastyqt563
ArmadaUGS120
KnowMe105
QueenE94
ZerO(Twitch)17
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream22069
StarCraft 2
WardiTV1243
Other Games
BasetradeTV259
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 11
lovetv 9
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2620
• WagamamaTV166
Other Games
• Shiphtur262
Upcoming Events
BSL Open Qualifier
3h 26m
BSL Open Qualifier
3h 26m
OSC
7h 26m
Replay Cast
8h 26m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 26m
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
19h 26m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 18h
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Online Event
5 days
FEL
6 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.