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On July 09 2014 07:56 WhaleOFaTale wrote:
I LOVE all the people complaining about the WM…"oh wait, as a zerg or protoss I now have to micro my death ball instead of 1aing???"…terrans have had to stutter step and split their hearts out in everymatchup since the beginning. Its nice seeing the shoe on the other foot
Thats not the problem about wm. its very random shots is very disgusting and unpredictable if you play with lings&blings, wm is ok/fine against all other zerg units.
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On July 09 2014 08:10 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 07:56 WhaleOFaTale wrote:
I LOVE all the people complaining about the WM…"oh wait, as a zerg or protoss I now have to micro my death ball instead of 1aing???"…terrans have had to stutter step and split their hearts out in everymatchup since the beginning. Its nice seeing the shoe on the other foot Thats not the problem about wm. its very random shots is very disgusting and unpredictable if you play with lings&blings, wm is ok/fine against all other zerg units.
It's not random. You have to micro against WM.
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The Thor attack priority have always been a little awkward. It's easier with Queens and BC's because they both have definite better attacks vs the one target. But where Thors hit, it's so different how good that hit will be.
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That thor change is interesting since the dopey bastards tend to ignore mutas during the big TvZ fights unless you target them and sod that I've got marines to split. Definitely would like to see what that means for terrans, perhaps more dead mutas? Let's hope so.
Mine buff is yea whatever, as is time warp nerf (amused to see the MSC has been nerfed three times since release). Doesn't address the fact that we're primarily a midgame oriented race but I think blizzard wants it that way, so ok I guess?
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On July 09 2014 08:14 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 08:10 Dingodile wrote:On July 09 2014 07:56 WhaleOFaTale wrote:
I LOVE all the people complaining about the WM…"oh wait, as a zerg or protoss I now have to micro my death ball instead of 1aing???"…terrans have had to stutter step and split their hearts out in everymatchup since the beginning. Its nice seeing the shoe on the other foot Thats not the problem about wm. its very random shots is very disgusting and unpredictable if you play with lings&blings, wm is ok/fine against all other zerg units. It's not random. You have to micro against WM.
I mean I can see how it can seem random to zerg players not used to micro. When you're only a-moving and not watching the fights, you don't really need to know the rules of auto targetting for Starcraft units.
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I'm reading again justifications for the Time Warp change : there's no such thing as "micro opportunities" against Time Warp. Say your change multiplies the "micro opportunities" by 10, 0*10 is still equal to 0. Consider removing the spell instead of trying to bandaid fix it because it's one of many spells that are very boring and borderline OP.
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Splash radius changed from 1.25/1.5/1.75 to 1.5/2/2.5.
I see this drastically changing all three matchups in the early and mid game and not changing anything in the late game like a Terran buff would need to be viable in this meta. Against bad players, this is going to effectively destroy entire armies with a cheap unit. Against good players who know how to split and trick the mine AI (like everyone was doing in the beginning of HOTS. I personally used mass Overseers), Terran is now going to have tons of WM splash killing their marines again. Versus Protoss, chargelots are once again going to force the same splash and destroy the marine lines like kamikaze pilots.
Thor Attack priority changed to use AA weapon first
Now players who split their mutalisks to avoid splash are going to wreck Thors because their roach/ling army (which is doing the DPS to the thors in the first place) aren't going to be prioritized. I think this is a nerf to the Thor and only affects Broodlords, which no one makes in the first place.
Time Warp duration decreased from 30 to 15
This is just silly, in no way will this affect anything but the mirror matchup of PvP. The problem with timewarp in ZvP and TvP is that it prevents micro instantly. Very rarely will a player keep their units in the timewarp longer than 5 seconds, let alone 15 or 30. What needs to be done to timewarp is a 25% movement reduction instead of 50% so everything in the timewarp doesn't die instantly.
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Lol most terrans here are such pathetic elitists.
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[B]On July 09 2014 08:20 Konranjyoutai wrote:[/B Now players who split their mutalisks to avoid splash are going to wreck Thors because their roach/ling army (which is doing the DPS to the thors in the first place) aren't going to be prioritized. I think this is a nerf to the Thor and only affects Broodlords, which no one makes in the first place.
This is an interesting thought. Originally Thors were used because of its high collision size to soak up baneling hits. Now that Thors target mutalisks first will banelings ignore the thor because of attack priority which in turn makes it even easier for Zerg ? Or am I confusing myself?
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The more I think about it the more I think the time warp change is OK. The first half of the spell it does its slow thing and then basically acts as a triple size forcefield since no player in their right mind would ever attack a protoss army under timewarp willingly unless there were massive (and nothing short of massive) positioning issues with the protoss army. Like so massive we are talking all the HT's bunched up at the front and the Protoss players dealing with a drop.
So the time warp nerf gets rid of the "big forcefield" side effect
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The widow-mine buff wouldn't help imho.
In most cases [implying the game is played on a high level] this buff would cause more friendly fire than it'd help dealing with enemy units.To this there's one exception: Widow Mine drops as opening - with the buff it'd be incredibly strong, even stronger than it is now. It also doesn't change the fact that most widow mines compositions get simply overrun by Ling/Bane/Muta/Overseer on creep and barely detonate at all.
The Thor buff is something I like a lot as it makes adding Thors to your bio composition TvZ more viable and gives Terran a better way to handle huge Muta flocks.
The Time-warp change is overdue, even as a Terran player it seems obvious that this spell is way to strong in zoning and delaying engagements in PvZ. I still think though it shouldn't slow as much as it does rather than having the time it last shortened [obviously I'd like to see both]
Please keep in mind that this is all from my perspective and not meant to be taken as facts
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On July 09 2014 07:31 DomeGetta wrote:
Tvz - I'm a little skeptical - I really think reverting to the old mine would have been a better first step.. if even only by 60-70%. The increased radius seems strange.. someone please do the math on at what point you stop killing 2/2 lings and banes in the splash radius.. the real problem is that hurting zerg units doesn't do anything unless you have a winning army. The mutas will clean everything up on most occasions (or the excess of banes) in which case a majority of the lings and banes that were "hurt" either still got to detonate or regen for the next battle.
2/2 is the important time frame as this is when most of the standard play large scale battles happen. If you still only kill units in the first of 3 radius than you really haven't done much in terms of helping T.
Tvp - less timewarp is a good start but you still haven't addressed the caution that Terran needs to utilize in order to not fall victim to 1 of 10 different 1 or 2 base all ins - not to mention the issue of late-game Tempest/Colo/Templar/Archon/Zealot being basically unbeatable for Terran - Colo take care of mines - Templar take care of ghosts - Tempest take care of the vikings and instant remax on zealot/templar is lollable.
Mine shots ignore upgrade difference.
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On July 09 2014 08:24 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On July 09 2014 08:20 Konranjyoutai wrote:[/B Thor Attack priority changed to use AA weapon first Now players who split their mutalisks to avoid splash are going to wreck Thors because their roach/ling army (which is doing the DPS to the thors in the first place) aren't going to be prioritized. I think this is a nerf to the Thor and only affects Broodlords, which no one makes in the first place. This is an interesting thought. Originally Thors were used because of its high collision size to soak up baneling hits. Now that Thors target mutalisks first will banelings ignore the thor because of attack priority which in turn makes it even easier for Zerg ? Or am I confusing myself?
im pretty certain thors are mixed in to help deal with a huge cloud of 25+ mutas , also stops you from bunching the muta to 1 shot mines/ medivacs
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how bout making a late game upgrade to mines in the armory
so early mid game mines are the same as right now, but late game they can be upgraded for more damage/radius?
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On July 09 2014 08:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Are we going to have pro opinions on the proposed changes ?
I mentioned this earlier but the Thor change is something Bomber asked for during this past week at WCS NA
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On July 09 2014 08:19 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 08:14 oxxo wrote:On July 09 2014 08:10 Dingodile wrote:On July 09 2014 07:56 WhaleOFaTale wrote:
I LOVE all the people complaining about the WM…"oh wait, as a zerg or protoss I now have to micro my death ball instead of 1aing???"…terrans have had to stutter step and split their hearts out in everymatchup since the beginning. Its nice seeing the shoe on the other foot Thats not the problem about wm. its very random shots is very disgusting and unpredictable if you play with lings&blings, wm is ok/fine against all other zerg units. It's not random. You have to micro against WM. I mean I can see how it can seem random to zerg players not used to micro. When you're only a-moving and not watching the fights, you don't really need to know the rules of auto targetting for Starcraft units.
Is this post for real? WM is pretty fucking random, dude.
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@mikumegurine I'd actually like something like it more because widow mine drops are already quite good in TvP, and an unit that can one shot probes in a 2 radius doesn't sound fair to me. At least they should think about reworking that stupid +shields damage that already nearly forces colossus openings if you're not going for cheese/all-in.
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These changes do please me, as a Terran player, but I would like to see them develop other units and abilities a bit more. These very slight changes seem like patchwork to me, rather than genuine balance updates.
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On July 09 2014 08:55 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 08:19 ZenithM wrote:On July 09 2014 08:14 oxxo wrote:On July 09 2014 08:10 Dingodile wrote:On July 09 2014 07:56 WhaleOFaTale wrote:
I LOVE all the people complaining about the WM…"oh wait, as a zerg or protoss I now have to micro my death ball instead of 1aing???"…terrans have had to stutter step and split their hearts out in everymatchup since the beginning. Its nice seeing the shoe on the other foot Thats not the problem about wm. its very random shots is very disgusting and unpredictable if you play with lings&blings, wm is ok/fine against all other zerg units. It's not random. You have to micro against WM. I mean I can see how it can seem random to zerg players not used to micro. When you're only a-moving and not watching the fights, you don't really need to know the rules of auto targetting for Starcraft units. Is this post for real? WM is pretty fucking random, dude.
Not really, they are random if the Z 1a the army, and mainly innefficient against a microed army. With a bigger range, they will be cost efficient against 1a, and inneficient against microed army.
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United States97276 Posts
Didnt thors used to prioritize air in WoL or am I imagining that? I'm probably wrong but I thought that was the case
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EPT
