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On May 24 2014 10:02 buchaa wrote:
I don't see how this balance update can affect any build order... Nobody gets the transformation servos upgrade anyways... Against protoss you still need blueflame to make any use of hellbats...
Against zerg you may be able to save 6-8 hellions max to transform them to hellbats when mines and tanks play a bigger role...
I dont get it
The main thing is that now every hellion opening is gonna get several free hellbats once the T builds an armory. It rewards players that are able to keep their hellions alive and makes the followup push a lot stronger.
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Any thoughts from play today? Terrans in chat channels seem to give this a near universal thumbs up. Not just for all-ins etc but also because it appears to give Terran more dynamism and mobility. Also, I realised, it also means that Terran can do a 4 Hellbat drop again (as 4 Hellions fit into a Medivac while only 2 Hellbats do - that was an ugly patch I wish Blizz would revert).
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On May 24 2014 05:34 Saechiis wrote:It's a "this unit doesn't give a fuck" ability that means Broodlords and Ultra's ignore movement altering spells. (concussive, abduct, fungal, forecefield, timewarp). Don't get why they can't give the mothership this, probably because an angry mothership doesn't make sense lorewise rofl.
Yes, and the concept of a frenzied unit that moves as slow as a snail and attacks no faster is? Better than giving the same ability 2 different names I guess...
Still... I don't like how insignificant the change to Terran is... Now what? If the Zerg is bad and let the Hellions into the natural, you have Hellbats there instead of Hellions? Oh, by the time they become Hellbats, the Drones are long gone anyway and the Hellbats have no way to catch up... Might as well have just kept them in Hellion mode...
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On May 24 2014 08:18 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 05:34 Saechiis wrote:On May 24 2014 05:31 LeimoC wrote:
what is the "Frenzied ability"?? It's a "this unit doesn't give a fuck" ability that means Broodlords and Ultra's ignore movement altering spells. (concussive, abduct, fungal, forecefield, timewarp). Don't get why they can't give the mothership this, probably because an angry mothership doesn't make sense lorewise rofl. You're protoss, right?
No, Protoss is the only race I don't play.
On May 24 2014 13:58 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 05:34 Saechiis wrote:On May 24 2014 05:31 LeimoC wrote:
what is the "Frenzied ability"?? It's a "this unit doesn't give a fuck" ability that means Broodlords and Ultra's ignore movement altering spells. (concussive, abduct, fungal, forecefield, timewarp). Don't get why they can't give the mothership this, probably because an angry mothership doesn't make sense lorewise rofl. Yes, and the concept of a frenzied unit that moves as slow as a snail and attacks no faster is? Better than giving the same ability 2 different names I guess... Still... I don't like how insignificant the change to Terran is... Now what? If the Zerg is bad and let the Hellions into the natural, you have Hellbats there instead of Hellions? Oh, by the time they become Hellbats, the Drones are long gone anyway and the Hellbats have no way to catch up... Might as well have just kept them in Hellion mode...
It's totally significant. Hellbats do more damage, have more HP and can be healed by medivacs. It makes Terran stim timings after the intial hellion harass way stronger. Plus it might proof easier to withstand early roach pressures with mech.
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So know early game in ZvT you need to make roaches if you scout armory, cause, lings vs hellbats are just useless :D
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On May 24 2014 14:31 Magreidis wrote:
So know early game in ZvT you need to make roaches if you scout armory, cause, lings vs hellbats are just useless :D
Terran has to invest in an armory before that though, more incentive to kill the reaper hellion off before the hellions get to morph.
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United States97277 Posts
I like this move with the brood lord move much better than the hydra spore idea
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On May 24 2014 14:36 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 14:31 Magreidis wrote:
So know early game in ZvT you need to make roaches if you scout armory, cause, lings vs hellbats are just useless :D Terran has to invest in an armory before that though, more incentive to kill the reaper hellion off before the hellions get to morph.
a terran who controls correctly won't get the reaper/hellion surrounded. that's a huge mistake that should almost just lose the game outright. a good zerg won't chase the hellions down off of creep just to kill them so they won't become hellbats later; he'll engage them the same way as ever and make sure to scout the armory timing
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On May 24 2014 12:46 Estancia wrote:The original frenzy apparently prevents the Ultralisk from being snared, stunned and/or mind controlled. Which means that the only 3 abilities that the ultralisk was immune to would be Thor's 250mm strike cannon, neural parasite and fungal growth. Frenzied - Liquipedia SCIINow that bliz says that "Frenzied is changed to also be immune to movement altering abilities", I guess the list now expands to time warp and abduct? (Both abilities were only introduced in HotS) I guess it would not only help vipers, but also help ultralisks now that it can now go through time warp with ease and attack protoss more efficiently? (The fact that immortals rape ultralisks still doesn't help though). Concussive shell and Forcefields are not applied to massive units (forcefields are broken by massive units) which is why frenzied didn't include those initially, but I guess now they are under "movement altering abilities" now. So I guess now broodlords can be viable in ZvZ now that it can't be abducted? Doubt it will affect any other matchup as Protoss and Terran doesn't have any movement altering abilities that affect air units. Also about the mothership, while I find that it being abducted/mind controlled is silly, I think that the whole unit itself is quite useless for now. I find mothership core more useful than it. That unit needs a complete redesign.
this patch doesn't change the viability of brood lords in zvz, it only changes the viability of brood lords as a counter to swarm host/spore crawler. brood lord switches vs. standard roach/hydra/infestor won't be any stronger. fungals holding brood lords in place never mattered because brood lords don't have mobility anyway
as for ultras, they already weren't affected by time warp
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Terrans are back! (I guess)
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On May 24 2014 15:16 Mahanaim wrote:
Terrans are back! (I guess)
No it will be just maru as usual.
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Great! Well done blizzard!
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what you cannot pull your own ultras anymore? aww...
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On May 24 2014 11:39 Danglars wrote:
Making my 8 harass/map control hellions into hellbats for the first push hasn't failed to net me a lead thus far (diamond tvz). I really like having something real meaty like that up my sleeve for threatening the third or putting them heavily economically behind. Pair 8 hellbats with 20 supply of 1/1 stim bio and the ability to lift the bio away to safety. No lair tech ready so the stim+mine+medivac push 11:00-12:00 is more deadly. I'm absolutely loving this change TvZ.
Who the hell dont have lair tech at 11-12:00? Are you SEA Diamond? Cause that doesnt make any sense at all :D
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I agree with the idea of giving 'frenzied' to Mothership.
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Hey guys i am a Master Zerg player, i have a question to the Hellbat change.
Removed Transformation Servos upgrade
Changed Hellion/Hellbat transform requirement to Armory
Why should this change the matchup or bring more terrans to use hellbats?
If i am correct you could research the upgrade before in an Techlab without an Armory or not?
So what happens is a bit of money for an upgrade goes away but you have to build an armory now.
Can a Terran or somebody else explain me the reason why there should be new or faster timings?
Greetings from Germany
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Vatican City State431 Posts
Late game ZvT is hugely imbalanced. I don't see how making an upgrade free for Terrans will affect late game 200 vs 200 battles. This has been proven by the last Terran "buffs". Upgrade cost removing did almost nothing in the last patches. When they buffed WM vs Protoss you could see a change almost immediately...When will DK understand that upgrades are not the answer but the actual units are the problem. Zerg is too cost efficient vs Terran in trading armies and Terran cannot keep up. End of story!
PS: Terran under-performing after WM/hellbat nerf is a fact, is not an opinion.
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On May 24 2014 05:45 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 05:38 DeathDyingDoomKiller wrote:
I don't get this part, is it worded incorrectly?
Terran
Removed Transformation Servos upgrade
Changed Hellion/Hellbat transform requirement to Armory
It looks to me like the first statement was redundant, someone help me :C Nope, you need to research an upgrade for Hellions so they could change forms, now you unlock it when you build an Armory, you don't need upgrade anymore. Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 05:45 Holdenintherye wrote:
Hmm could we maybe update the OP or something to include what all the "movement altering abilities" are? Just Abduct, that is the only spell so far.
Those abilities are: concussive shells/time warp/force fields/abduct/fungal
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On May 24 2014 18:13 EXRNaRa wrote:Hey guys i am a Master Zerg player, i have a question to the Hellbat change. Show nested quote + Removed Transformation Servos upgrade
Changed Hellion/Hellbat transform requirement to Armory Why should this change the matchup or bring more terrans to use hellbats? If i am correct you could research the upgrade before in an Techlab without an Armory or not? So what happens is a bit of money for an upgrade goes away but you have to build an armory now. Can a Terran or somebody else explain me the reason why there should be new or faster timings? Greetings from Germany
Terran normally does a 1/1 push with 2 medivacs to kill some creep. They line this up with the armory to continue to 2/2 upgrades. If they keep their intial 6 or so hellions alive until this push they can transform these to hellbats for some extra beef and zergling killing power.
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EPT
