EPTBalance Status Update 4/29/14 - Page 28
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Hadronsbecrazy
United Kingdom551 Posts
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
This "problem" didnt exist in WoL. | ||
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Butterednuts
United States859 Posts
On May 02 2014 01:28 Dingodile wrote: about larva hotkeys: If you have ~40 larvas, you cant use all larvas, it stops at ~35 (35 units). You have to select the last ~5 larvas again to build units. I noticed it pretty often, but only if you have ~40 larvas or more. This "problem" didnt exist in WoL. Why is problem in quotation marks? Are you insinuating that it isn't an issue but then also proclaiming it as one in the sentence before? | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:00 Butterednuts wrote: Why is problem in quotation marks? Are you insinuating that it isn't an issue but then also proclaiming it as one in the sentence before? He's probably just saying that not a lot of games have been lost because of this ^^. Seems like a bug nonetheless if it's true. | ||
digmouse
China6330 Posts
The Hellbat changes went through and will be put into a balance test map. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:30 scypio wrote: great change that will make absolutely no difference in 95% of games whatsoever Fairly sure TvT and TvZ represent more than 5% of the games played. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:30 scypio wrote: great change that will make absolutely no difference in 95% of games whatsoever If you don't see how this can change something, then you are not watching at all... | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:34 TheDwf wrote: Fairly sure TvT and TvZ represent more than 5% of the games played. TvT balance is not all that crucial... and for TvZ - hmm... I wonder how many T players have the APM to spare while fighting LBM muta balls to do even more micro. One thing that may be helpful - T keeps his 6/8 initial hellions and hits a timing transforming them into hellbats. If it works... then T will get nerfed again. | ||
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Tossim111
United States246 Posts
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Nataril
United Kingdom20 Posts
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:54 Franscar wrote: if this goes through I can imagine 1/1 Zergling openings becoming obsolete. having 6-8 hellbats in your push is incredibly powerful, along with rallying hellions to your attack and then transforming. TvZ could use changes to mutas or tanks, but this is a terrible idea. no it isnt, back when hellbats were good it was possible to do thes kind of pushes yet rairly would you see terran kill zerg with a 6 hellbat push. It will however force zerg into a greater commitment to groundbased gas units which is something the mu needs because it will delay mutas and then if t continues to push it will force z to make more banes and less mutas so that z has to at least fight for the ability to make 30+ mutas and contain t on 3-4 bases. right now z gets mutas out so fast that drop play on a lot of maps prity much ends by the 11 minute mark, and once a zerg has mutas unless they are forced to fight with them they will never lose them, provided they have good control. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:00 Butterednuts wrote: Why is problem in quotation marks? Are you insinuating that it isn't an issue but then also proclaiming it as one in the sentence before? In my country you can use quotation marks on noun if it didnt existed before. Make only clear that something has changed. | ||
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Nataril
United Kingdom20 Posts
On May 02 2014 03:02 washikie wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 02 2014 02:54 Franscar wrote: if this goes through I can imagine 1/1 Zergling openings becoming obsolete. having 6-8 hellbats in your push is incredibly powerful, along with rallying hellions to your attack and then transforming. TvZ could use changes to mutas or tanks, but this is a terrible idea. no it isnt, back when hellbats were good it was possible to do thes kind of pushes yet rairly would you see terran kill zerg with a 6 hellbat push. It will however force zerg into a greater commitment to groundbased gas units which is something the mu needs because it will delay mutas and then if t continues to push it will force z to make more banes and less mutas so that z has to at least fight for the ability to make 30+ mutas and contain t on 3-4 bases. right now z gets mutas out so fast that drop play on a lot of maps prity much ends by the 11 minute mark, and once a zerg has mutas unless they are forced to fight with them they will never lose them, provided they have good control. these kinds of pushes were much less effective because building Hellbats required an armory, so any hellbat/medivac/bio push arrived much later unless you sacrificed your upgrade timing for an early armory. now you can hit the same exact 1-1 timing as before, with hellbats, without sacrificing upgrades. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:45 scypio wrote: TvT balance is not all that crucial... and for TvZ - hmm... I wonder how many T players have the APM to spare while fighting LBM muta balls to do even more micro. One thing that may be helpful - T keeps his 6/8 initial hellions and hits a timing transforming them into hellbats. If it works... then T will get nerfed again. It's not? Hellion openings are already very common in TvT and mech really doesn't seem very weak in midgame (unlike in WOL). So any earlygame midgame buff to mech could have a significant effect. If this goes through, I am definitely gonna use mech as my standard play. TvZ - Already pointed out previously that I think it creates a totally unncesary buff to terran early game. If you buff terran early game by x%, then the effect it will have in the midgame (balancewise) will be much larger than x% due to the snowball effect. So assuming David Kim is aware that TvZ midgame perhaps is favored of zerg by roughly 10%, then making a change that buffs terran by 10% in the early game (or around 10-11 minute mark) is suddenly gonna make the matchup very terran favored in the midgame. I think he should just reduce cost to 50/50 for this upgrade instead of making it free. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On May 02 2014 00:48 Sapphire.lux wrote: Though i do find it heart breaking when i see even top pros using one or two controls. This shouldn't work in SC. You know, reading this on the bus earlier today, I really wanted to make a cheeky edit to your quote saying "This shouldn't work in SC(2)," ahaha. As for proposed changes...I don't agree with upgrade cost nerfs unless they just homogenize them all to the same exact prices for every race (which it already seems like they are going to do)... I also don't really enjoy the trend of just removing upgrades from the game altogether - granted the hellion transformation upgrade is pretty useless and a waste of gas until the lategame anyhow (more of referring to siege, among other examples) and never should have been an upgrade in the first place... | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On May 02 2014 02:54 Franscar wrote: if this goes through I can imagine 1/1 Zergling openings becoming obsolete. having 6-8 hellbats in your push is incredibly powerful, along with rallying hellions to your attack and then transforming. TvZ could use changes to mutas or tanks, but this is a terrible idea. People said the same thing at the HotS beta and beginning of HotS with pre nerfed hellbats. It didn't happen then, I am skeptical that it will happen now. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
It's not a matter of balance (a mirror match-up cannot be "imbalanced") but of diversity. If this thing is implemented and TvT suddenly goes backwards into 95% Hellbats nonsense, people will start e-flipping tables again. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On May 02 2014 03:02 washikie wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 02 2014 02:54 Franscar wrote: if this goes through I can imagine 1/1 Zergling openings becoming obsolete. having 6-8 hellbats in your push is incredibly powerful, along with rallying hellions to your attack and then transforming. TvZ could use changes to mutas or tanks, but this is a terrible idea. no it isnt, back when hellbats were good it was possible to do thes kind of pushes yet rairly would you see terran kill zerg with a 6 hellbat push. It will however force zerg into a greater commitment to groundbased gas units which is something the mu needs because it will delay mutas and then if t continues to push it will force z to make more banes and less mutas so that z has to at least fight for the ability to make 30+ mutas and contain t on 3-4 bases. right now z gets mutas out so fast that drop play on a lot of maps prity much ends by the 11 minute mark, and once a zerg has mutas unless they are forced to fight with them they will never lose them, provided they have good control. This is a bit of a logical fallacy from the zerg's point of view. You can't have your mutas in position to stop the drops AND harass at the same time. Yeah, it might be scary to load up dropships with mutas on the map, but if you get a drop in while mutas are away from home, that can really sting. I always thought z was overpowered in tvz slightly. That's why I switched to z. But upgrade cost, I think that's stupid thing to change. Give Terran a little help in late game. The removal of servo upgrade might be just the thing. | ||
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