All-Korean quarterfinal bracket set in WCS America - Page 10

On April 08 2014 11:07 pure.Wasted wrote:


This is your argument in a nutshell.

1. Blizzard created this situation.
2. This situation is bad.
3. Blizzard is responsible for fixing this situation.

1. is wrong because, as most people learn in high school, correlation does not mean causation. Your statement of "coincidence?! I think not!!!" is worthless. There are plenty of other factors that have a hand in SC2's decline in popularity, and you do nothing to prove that the one you list is more significant than the rest.

2. is wrong for very obvious reasons. Not everyone shares your opinion.

3. no they aren't. They have no obligation to anyone to do anything. But as long as they're running a world championship series, I do expect them to feel obligated to make it a world championship series. That means anyone who doesn't deserve to be there should be cut long, long before. If that means 100% Koreans, so be it.

On April 08 2014 10:46 Vorenius wrote:

Obviously the exact figures aren't public but I'd be suprised if korean players like Arthur, Oz, Revival, Alicia, Heart or Crank are payed significantly more than a lot of foreigners. But these koreans are still consistently beating foreigner because they are just better players. No amount of money will change that.

On April 08 2014 11:26 playa wrote:


The most watched thing ever was the 2008 Summer Olympics. When you think of the Olympics, do you not think of it as a world championship? No one f'ing cares whether the best swimmers are all American and only 5 end up making the American team to be there. People want to actually see their countrymen versus other countries.

If one country is the best, bar none... Hey, guess what... you don't even need a world championship... The KR regional finals would already show you who the best player is.

People are supposed to be thrilled to tune in to watch a lot of ex bw pros continue their advantage into SC 2, where they barely speak any English, and they can't relate to them in any way? Have fun with that premise. Truth of the matter is, this game is horrible to watch in comparison to BW. Good graphics or not, this game is nothing in comparison. The only mu that could be considered better is P vs P, yet everyone hates that mu in SC 2. People don't normally watch SC 2 in awe like they do BW pros, due to the lower mechanical ability needed. If there were ever a time to not ignore what the majority of people prefer to watch, it would be now...

What we're doing is basically celebrating the fact that there are more Koreans able to practice 14 hours a day than non Koreans, while the viewers are telling you they don't f'ing care and they would prefer to see people from their country have the same opportunities.

On April 08 2014 11:49 pure.Wasted wrote:


You know who watched the Olympics? My mom. Would my mom have watched the Olympics if Canada/Russia weren't competing? Not a chance.

You know who didn't watch WCS? My mom. Would my mom have watched WCS if there were more players from Canada/Russia? Not a chance.

Olympics and WCS have wildly different demographics and goals. You can't just take the PR strategy of one and apply it to the other and expect it to work. If GSL sucks for two seasons in a row, less people will subscribe to the next one. If Olympics hockey sucks for two seasons in a row, you think hockey fans aren't going to tune in to the third one? Lol. The modern Olympics has over a hundred years of rep, and is a multibillion dollar industry. You think SC2 can market itself the same way? I laugh at the notion.



As it stands, we don't need your kind of world championship. The reason the KR regional finals aren't enough is there aren't enough events for all the high quality Korean players to get the publicity they deserve. They keep knocking each other out off-camera. By spreading them out over three regions, we get the best of both worlds: we give them the exposure they deserve, and IF a foreigner happens to get good enough to challenge them, there is an obvious way to do so -- the WCS system is perfectly competent for letting foreigners get as far as their skill will allow.

Your beef is that there are very few such foreigners. Sucks, but there you go. It's not Blizzard's, or WCS's, job to change that. That's up to local sponsors and local tournaments.



See, this is what makes Vindicare dismiss you. You start quasi-promisingly by implying that because SC2 is such a poor game, the only way it can sustain itself is by appealing to base nationalistic pride... but then you throw that out the window to suggest that people who practice more shouldn't win more.

Yes. The WCS is there to celebrate people who are better at this game. Whether that's through raw talent or rigorous practice or both. You want to root for people based on their charisma? Go vote in an election.

On April 08 2014 11:26 playa wrote:


The most watched thing ever was the 2008 Summer Olympics. When you think of the Olympics, do you not think of it as a world championship? No one f'ing cares whether the best swimmers are all American and only 5 end up making the American team to be there. People want to actually see their countrymen versus other countries.

If one country is the best, bar none... Hey, guess what... you don't even need a world championship... The KR regional finals would already show you who the best player is.

People are supposed to be thrilled to tune in to watch a lot of ex bw pros continue their advantage into SC 2, where they barely speak any English, and they can't relate to them in any way? Have fun with that premise. Truth of the matter is, this game is horrible to watch in comparison to BW. Good graphics or not, this game is nothing in comparison. The only mu that could be considered better is P vs P, yet everyone hates that mu in SC 2. People don't normally watch SC 2 in awe like they do BW pros, due to the lower mechanical ability needed. If there were ever a time to not ignore what the majority of people prefer to watch, it would be now...

What we're doing is basically celebrating the fact that there are more Koreans able to practice 14 hours a day than non Koreans, while the viewers are telling you they don't f'ing care and they would prefer to see people from their country have the same opportunities.

On April 07 2014 18:59 boxerfred wrote:


"shitty hasbeen koreans", totally. They're all capable of beating top tier koreans.

On April 08 2014 11:58 LuckyFool wrote:


I understand where you're coming from but we already have GSL, IEM's, MLG's, dreamhacks and homestory cups to watch Koreans go at it. Why is it wrong to hope for an event where you get to see some other guys up there for a change? People say nobody wants to watch "shitty foreigners" but part of the reason why there are fewer and fewer foreigners getting up to the top is because there is such a little foundation for anyone to climb up anymore.

On April 08 2014 12:06 Xiphos wrote:


Then why don't they try GSL? *chuckles*

On April 08 2014 12:09 Caihead wrote:


Most of these non WCS tournaments did / still do Invite only spots for popular foreigners. Why do people constantly say there is little foundation, when there is so much more capital / equipment readily available to foreigners than say the average Korean aspiring to become a progamer. To aspire to be a progamer in Korea is basically equivalent to throwing your life away if you don't succeed at it or don't find a team and get a license, because the competition in academia is so fierce and people have such conservative views for employment outside the entertainment industry.

There have been far more good Koreans that have fallen off the radar than there have been good foreigners who have fallen off the radar, the competition in Korea for a personal or team sponsorship is alot more fierce than it is in NA, what's the problem exactly?

On April 08 2014 12:12 lichter wrote:


sure money > praise from tl posters

On April 08 2014 12:19 Sevre wrote:
As much as I do not want to wade into this, I can't resist but point out the flaw in the "national pride" argument. People only want to watch out of nationalistic desire when the presence of another nationality poses an obstacle. Keeping Koreans out of leagues isn't going to increase viewer numbers. We're more interested in seeing Scarlett stomp Koreans than seeing Scarlett stomp local players.

I want to see the Korean dominance end as much as the next foreigner, but that requires skill and resources which the scene just doesn't have, and region locking to create this veneer of regional pride is not going to help the scene.

On April 08 2014 12:38 Xiphos wrote:


Well there goes my respect for them.

On April 08 2014 12:43 playa wrote:


You're missing the point. To be the best at anything, you need to have talent + dedication + sufficient income. Until being one of the best players in a country means some financially, how can you grow your talent base? How can you keep your talent in the game? If it's a hobby to one person and a job to another, that gap in skill should never close. You have to increase the number of people that can pursue it as a job.

People who scoff at the NA scene need some perspective. Is there any profession in the NA where you could say you're in the top 32 of the NA, yet you still have to call it a hobby? It makes no sense for NA players to be in such of a predicament. That's a recipe for a dead game, when people have no incentive to be one of the best in the NA. We're not talking about a small scope, either. We're talking about being amongst the best, out of hundreds of thousands of people.

You can't compete with Koreans until you attract more talent and create more jobs for said players, enabling them to practice 8 hours instead of working another job on the side for 8 hours a day....

Idra has gone from one of the better players in the NA to being out of the scene. It's insane to lose such a fan draw + talented player due to only rewarding like the best 32 players in the whole world. He retired after he failed to qualify for WCS. You know, the tournament that has essentially become the only tournament...

No one has more money in the scene than Blizzard. It is their game. If Blizzard isn't going to take charge in growing scenes, then who is? This game needs to grow, because at it's current state, its not exactly encouraging anyone to do much of anything.

On April 08 2014 12:43 playa wrote:


You're missing the point. To be the best at anything, you need to have talent + dedication + sufficient income. Until being one of the best players in a country means some financially, how can you grow your talent base? How can you keep your talent in the game? If it's a hobby to one person and a job to another, that gap in skill should never close. You have to increase the number of people that can pursue it as a job.

People who scoff at the NA scene need some perspective. Is there any profession in the NA where you could say you're in the top 32 of the NA, yet you still have to call it a hobby? It makes no sense for NA players to be in such of a predicament. That's a recipe for a dead game, when people have no incentive to be one of the best in the NA. We're not talking about a small scope, either. We're talking about being amongst the best, out of hundreds of thousands of people.

You can't compete with Koreans until you attract more talent and create more jobs for said players, enabling them to practice 8 hours instead of working another job on the side for 8 hours a day....

Idra has gone from one of the better players in the NA to being out of the scene. It's insane to lose such a fan draw + talented player due to only rewarding like the best 32 players in the whole world. He retired after he failed to qualify for WCS. You know, the tournament that has essentially become the only tournament...

No one has more money in the scene than Blizzard. It is their game. If Blizzard isn't going to take charge in growing scenes, then who is? This game needs to grow, because at it's current state, it's not exactly encouraging anyone to do much of anything.

On April 08 2014 12:50 Chaggi wrote:


There are probably hobbies/professions like that, you've just never heard of them for that very reason.

People talk about the NA region like they need help, but honestly - it's up to the players to actually practice and compete. Stop depending on Blizzard to do something, if they wanted to create a viable NA scene, they would've done it by now.

On April 08 2014 13:01 playa wrote:


That's the thing, though. They have acknowledged this and realized it was idiotic to keep it how it was, whether people understand this or not. The problem is now the pace that changes actually take effect. They try to be politically correct, though, and hope things will work themselves out. They don't want to get their hands dirty so to speak, but they fail to realize the absurdity of relying on kids like neeb, who are still in school, to knock out Korean pros who play 14 hours a day.

You have to be a little more proactive than that.