On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
He sure as hell deserves it. I was always a fan of Naniwa but he is just too "uninformed" (to put it lightly) to see why he needs to be at that tournament.
He sure does deserve to be kicked. Saying you don't want to go to your job + *I didn't practice for something I qualified for* is the biggest piss poor excuse ever.
On March 21 2014 16:13 DaftFunk wrote: okay, but i can name 5 people at the top of my head that dont deserve to be on EG anymore if you are saying playing/practice is the issue
but those guys are either smart, sexy or likeable in general. put a monster drink in their hand and people will be like, damn, i wanna drink it, too. naniwa is just a good starcraft player, as long as he practices.
Smart idea getting kicked off, this way he doesn't have post-retirement streaming hours to make up.
On March 21 2014 16:13 DaftFunk wrote: okay, but i can name 5 people at the top of my head that dont deserve to be on EG anymore if you are saying playing/practice is the issue
Machine is no longer on EG, he was a house manager and then quit to go back to school.
iNcontroL is on EG the way Rotterdam is on ROOT.
Thorzain is actually likable and will one day be the first EG-sponsored doctor.
Stephano is caught in some sort of endless feedback loop of constantly needing more streaming hours, fortunately he has found a way to fill those hours with the fewest amount of games possible.
Hes under contract and hes representing the company. What he done was embarrassing to the event holders and the sponsors. He could have at least went out in a professional manner and not looking like a child, its time he grew up.
I dont feel sorry for this guy one bit, nor should anyone else tbh and with luck hes career in SC2 and E-Sports is finished,, then he can get a real job, perhaps serving burgers at MacDonalds as i don't think going what of i have seen of him that he has ether the temperament or intelligence to work with other people reliably. Saying that his customer facing skills are appalling so he probably couldnt even do that.
Dont feel sorry for him one bit, good riddance !!!
On March 21 2014 16:13 DaftFunk wrote: okay, but i can name 5 people at the top of my head that dont deserve to be on EG anymore if you are saying playing/practice is the issue
Incontrol has value to EG that's worth far more than just his skill as a player. Others as well.
Players(employees) are ultimately accountable to the company. If they provide ROI, then they're kept. If they're negative, but could provide future value, then they could still be kept. If they're actively lowering the value of the company(naniwa's actions), then the asset needs to be cut loose.
Naniwa could've tried hard, dropped out without winning a map and it would've have been that big of a deal. Putting in zero effort and then his actions afterwards doesn't just hurt his value as a player, it hurts the team he's on and the sponsors.
On March 21 2014 16:39 Amui wrote: Incontrol has value to EG that's worth far more than just his skill as a player. Others as well.
I tried to say this but he seemed offended. :<
I think what he meant was that while he does a lot of stuff for EG in terms of his marketing power, Rotti is part of Root as just as a friend thing and that Rotti's branding is reserved solely for Rotti (ie, when he gets jobs he gets them as Kevin, not as an employee of ROOT) so you dont see him pushing Root sponsor stuff.
It's understandable if he didn't want to go. But if he really didn't care, why make those excuses when his proxy was found? Losing would have suit him just fine, since he would just get to be out early. There was no reason to create drama and cause a delay to the tournament if he didn't even want to be there in the first place.
Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
At least he's not blaming sound-proofing (or lack thereof) any more. He just quit the old fashioned way. It seems weird that he would continue to expect a paycheck for playing SC2 when he isn't playing any more and forfeit on the biggest stage instead of playing it out.
I appreciate his honesty but Naniwa needs a manager who knows how to say these things in a palatable manner. For instance, "I want to spend time with my family" is the standard sports BS for "I don't want to play for a while".
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that? Yeah hi guys, basically im amazing and will turn up when I feel like it, give you abuse and you'll pay me cause you suck if you don't.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
I am not defending him and most of the haters are not Swedish.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
It's hard not to notice that almost all of his followers on this site have the swedish tag, that naniwa almost always specifically thanks swedish fans as if others aren't worthy of him, and that there is always some excuse related to sweden on his pathetic actions. Sorry that generalising happens, but unfortunately it does.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
I am not defending him and most of the haters are not Swedish.
Naniwa does what Naniwa doesProfessional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
I am not defending him and most of the haters are not Swedish.
Naniwa does what Naniwa doesProfessional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
I'm sorry but that is not defending?
He did a lot of stupid and got rightfully fired from Alliance. Looking from a personal perspective I don't think he did anything terrible, unforgivable wrong. Happy?
Rereading the thread I realized I assumed it would be filled with hate when there actually where none..
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
It's hard not to notice that almost all of his followers on this site have the swedish tag, that naniwa almost always specifically thanks swedish fans as if others aren't worthy of him, and that there is always some excuse related to sweden on his pathetic actions. Sorry that generalising happens, but unfortunately it does.
Everyone in Europe knows there is something off about Swedish people.
I still think IEM screwed up by announcing the WTA halfway through the season. It makes people not wanting to participate a lot more understandable. I see that Naniwa got 2nd place at IEM New York, at which time he didn't know the world championship was winner take all (links for dates).
On the other hand, Naniwa's arguments so far have been, "I didn't feel like it." I certainly wouldn't want to be compelled to hop on a plane for what felt like a pointless trip. Then again, Naniwa seemed to appreciate the free hotel. It's really hard to tell what's going on in his head, and I get the feeling he's trying to keep it that way.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
I am not defending him and most of the haters are not Swedish.
Naniwa does what Naniwa doesProfessional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
I'm sorry but that is not defending?
He did a lot of stupid and got rightfully fired from Alliance. Looking from a personal perspective I don't think he did anything terrible, unforgivable wrong. Happy?
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
It's hard not to notice that almost all of his followers on this site have the swedish tag, that naniwa almost always specifically thanks swedish fans as if others aren't worthy of him, and that there is always some excuse related to sweden on his pathetic actions. Sorry that generalising happens, but unfortunately it does.
Everyone in Europe knows there is something off about Swedish people.
..I've found that all the swedes I've spoken with at very likeable.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
It's hard not to notice that almost all of his followers on this site have the swedish tag, that naniwa almost always specifically thanks swedish fans as if others aren't worthy of him, and that there is always some excuse related to sweden on his pathetic actions. Sorry that generalising happens, but unfortunately it does.
Everyone in Europe knows there is something off about Swedish people.
..I've found that all the swedes I've spoken with at very likeable.
Well anything other than that would be a farce. He is a stupid kid who quit so why still give him money? I hope he is gone forever and we will never see him again.
Although I perfectly understand why Naniwa was kicked from Alliance I don't understand a few things.
Why was Alliance insisting Naniwa to go knowing he wasn't practicing nor didn't want to go there? Alliance could have saved themselves headace by amically terminating the contract instead of causing damage to the Alliance brand.
Although Naniwa's behaviour at IEM was unacceptable it does makes me think a bit less of Alliance in general. That being said, this is Naniwa's explanation and it isn't almost the most reliable.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
On March 21 2014 16:32 Topdoller wrote: Hes under contract and hes representing the company. What he done was embarrassing to the event holders and the sponsors. He could have at least went out in a professional manner and not looking like a child, its time he grew up.
I don't feel sorry this guy.
Dont feel sorry for him one bit, good riddance !!!
On March 21 2014 16:23 jSwany wrote: He sure does deserve to be kicked. Saying you don't want to go to your job + *I didn't practice for something I qualified for* is the biggest piss poor excuse ever.
I don't want to defend Naniwa's actions, but this would be a lot more like you send in your two-week notice to the job that was getting on your last nerve, but they keep scheduling you and then you're boss shows up one day at your house and DRAGS you to work. Obviously, you get pissed and you make a bunch of customers really pissed off and then you get fired.
His behavior in the past days has been extremely unprofessional and hurts his organization and sponsors, I don't see a problem that [A] want to let him go.
On March 21 2014 16:40 cywinr wrote: You get sponsored to play a game. You stop playing it. You stop getting sponsored. Makes sense to me. What's wrong Naniwa?
Where did he say there was anything wrong? He specifically says that he doesn't care about getting kicked off the team.
On March 21 2014 18:01 Seiniyta wrote: Although I perfectly understand why Naniwa was kicked from Alliance I don't understand a few things.
Why was Alliance insisting Naniwa to go knowing he wasn't practicing nor didn't want to go there? Alliance could have saved themselves headace by amically terminating the contract instead of causing damage to the Alliance brand.
Although Naniwa's behaviour at IEM was unacceptable it does makes me think a bit less of Alliance in general. That being said, this is Naniwa's explanation and it isn't almost the most reliable.
This is based on pure speculation, seeing as I'm not a pro gamer, never have been, no idea what the contracts entail:
Naniwa's contract states he will attend all competitions he is requested to go to. I imagine there are provisions for people who want/need time off, but in a short time frame, they still have competitive obligations to be met and some cannot be skipped due to timing or importance. (I.E, IEM's own rules and they may have team based penalties for not complying)
Alliance/EG's sponsors request presence at as many tournaments as possible, in a positive light. Therefore, it is an obligation or in Alliance/EG's interest for Naniwa to attend, even just in round of 32 to get the name and presence in front of thousands of people as a professional, skilled gamer.
Naniwa goes "Derp". He's 24, and acts like he's 14. If he wasn't good at SC2, he'd be anonymous. In both meanings.
On March 21 2014 18:01 Seiniyta wrote: Although I perfectly understand why Naniwa was kicked from Alliance I don't understand a few things.
Why was Alliance insisting Naniwa to go knowing he wasn't practicing nor didn't want to go there? Alliance could have saved themselves headace by amically terminating the contract instead of causing damage to the Alliance brand.
Although Naniwa's behaviour at IEM was unacceptable it does makes me think a bit less of Alliance in general. That being said, this is Naniwa's explanation and it isn't almost the most reliable.
This is based on pure speculation, seeing as I'm not a pro gamer, never have been, no idea what the contracts entail:
Naniwa's contract states he will attend all competitions he is requested to go to. I imagine there are provisions for people who want/need time off, but in a short time frame, they still have competitive obligations to be met and some cannot be skipped due to timing or importance.
Alliance/EG's sponsors request presence at as many tournaments as possible, in a positive light. Therefore, it is an obligation or in Alliance/EG's interest for Naniwa to attend, even just in round of 32 to get the name and presence in front of thousands of people as a professional, skilled gamer.
Naniwa goes "Derp". He's 24, and acts like he's 14. If he wasn't good at SC2, he'd be anonymous. In both meanings.
It is all possible due to the player.
Let's not forget it is Alliance/EG that wanted Nani on their team, not the other way around.
Nani went, and didnt just derp as you put it. He gave a legitimate reason why he forfeit. Yet haters still spread misinformation (like a 10yr old). No wonder he calls this community a disgrace, because it actually is.
This doesnt sound surprising to me but it doesnt make me happy, if he is taking a long break, leaving the team would happen one way or another. It sucks that it ends with such negativity and that people will remember more him leaving IEM more than him having some of the best results of non-korean players last year. + Show Spoiler +
Also incontroll and rotterdam are the same person obviously
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
how many more bridges until ur left stranded naniwa? it doesnt matter how good you are, everytime something like this happens you lose alot of money over it. progamers dont have very long careers
On March 21 2014 18:51 TheFlexN wrote: This doesnt sound surprising to me but it doesnt make me happy, if he is taking a long break, leaving the team would happen one way or another. It sucks that it ends with such negativity and that people will remember more him leaving IEM more than him having some of the best results of non-korean players last year. + Show Spoiler +
Also incontroll and rotterdam are the same person obviously
It was always going to end this way, if he left gracefully he would have to come back and throw a few spanners in the works for good measure.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
On March 21 2014 18:01 Seiniyta wrote: Although I perfectly understand why Naniwa was kicked from Alliance I don't understand a few things.
Why was Alliance insisting Naniwa to go knowing he wasn't practicing nor didn't want to go there? Alliance could have saved themselves headace by amically terminating the contract instead of causing damage to the Alliance brand.
Although Naniwa's behaviour at IEM was unacceptable it does makes me think a bit less of Alliance in general. That being said, this is Naniwa's explanation and it isn't almost the most reliable.
This is based on pure speculation, seeing as I'm not a pro gamer, never have been, no idea what the contracts entail:
Naniwa's contract states he will attend all competitions he is requested to go to. I imagine there are provisions for people who want/need time off, but in a short time frame, they still have competitive obligations to be met and some cannot be skipped due to timing or importance. (I.E, IEM's own rules and they may have team based penalties for not complying)
Alliance/EG's sponsors request presence at as many tournaments as possible, in a positive light. Therefore, it is an obligation or in Alliance/EG's interest for Naniwa to attend, even just in round of 32 to get the name and presence in front of thousands of people as a professional, skilled gamer.
Naniwa goes "Derp". He's 24, and acts like he's 14. If he wasn't good at SC2, he'd be anonymous. In both meanings.
if we are all technical about it, he did attend the tournament xD
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
How did he behave like a spoiled child? He was trying to retire, but was forced to play in the tournament anyway, despite being completely unprepared and not wanting to play. He felt the conditions were unfair, so he dropped out.
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
I dont want to excuse his behavior but from what I understood (and I hope that its correct because if you are correct, thats even more disappointing) he wanted to completly stop with SC and leave the team but was still in the contract so he wasnt allowed to and had to attend IEM
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
However you look at it a player still has their team and contract to consider, which generally can't be backed out on as simply as having a change of heart.
On March 21 2014 19:19 VoldorusLM wrote: However you look at it a player still has their team and contract to consider, which generally can't be backed out on as simply as having a change of heart.
You can however break a contract from both side. But maybe that depends on country, laws etc.. In my country you can break a contract with agreements from the two parties
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
+1 Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
+1 Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes.
Yes ! thank you ! that what i was trying to say. It's complicated to explain this in english.
For what it's worth, there were no ''consequences''. The only time we heard of a player maybe not attending was Taeja who had injured wrists. We heard about naniwa not wanting to have come on site (after the reddit thread saying he hadn't practiced in 2 months etc).
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
+1 Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes.
Yes ! thank you ! that what i was trying to say. It's complicated to explain this in english.
But you also cant be sure what were those fights behind the scenes if Naniwa made it completly clear that he wanted to stop with the game or be like Stephano and still kindof play but not be fully commited. I also think that Alliance didnt want to get pressured into letting Naniwa get out of his contract freely, just because of the possible image danger (which they now certaintly got) which Naniwas bm might give to them. So it kindof sucks for everyone (including the viewers) involved into Starcraft
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
Thats not what Blade said at all. Just because he hinted at all Naniwa defenders being swedish (which is probably reaching too) it does not mean that all swedish sc2 fans are Naniwa defenders. Relax..
On March 21 2014 18:51 TheFlexN wrote: This doesnt sound surprising to me but it doesnt make me happy, if he is taking a long break, leaving the team would happen one way or another. It sucks that it ends with such negativity and that people will remember more him leaving IEM more than him having some of the best results of non-korean players last year. + Show Spoiler +
Also incontroll and rotterdam are the same person obviously
It was always going to end this way, if he left gracefully he would have to come back and throw a few spanners in the works for good measure.
Still, I feel like that even though he is notorious for BM or complaining about balance, I see no reason for us to say "hey, all these things aside, he was still an awesome player", I feel like we are focusing on all the negative things and it will result in his results to be forgotten. Its similar to idrA, we all remember so well all of the "idrA rage" things, but hardly anybody noted that he won big tournamets, played BW for CJ and was one of the players that created the zerg macro style that is standard today. We need to make sure we dont forget naniwa as the amazing player he was, have the negative things as just a side note, reminding us only to not worship him.
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Hmyep, second sentence is true. Though it's not rude to Naniwa, he did so much to not be loved that it already hurts. Although, some (lots) of people enjoy his mindset and style. It might not the place to state it, but if people can say "I'll buy the same gaming stuff as my favourite player wears", I can say "I won't buy anything that sponsors one of the players that I think are basically pretty bad at sportsmanship, politeness, etc".
On March 21 2014 18:56 TT1 wrote: how many more bridges until ur left stranded naniwa? it doesnt matter how good you are, everytime something like this happens you lose alot of money over it. progamers dont have very long careers
AHAHAHAHAHAH are you serious? The last time I remember you doing well was the GSL versus world shit in 2011.
It does matter how good you are, unless you're getting paid mad money that no one's heard about.
it's too bad because he's a great player when motivated, and I love watching him lose 3-4 to great Koreans, but i can't say i'm surprised to see him flame out yet again, so that part of me is unsurprised. also, there are a lot of people in this thread that apparently have never held a job.
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
This sure sounds like complaining to me:
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
I saw a few people defending him "a good manager would not let him go etc"
I can t get this since he is and got paid to bring results like this (going to a 100k tournament is already awesome promotion) on top of that he was the only foreigner which is even better promotion.
A real professional would go there try to play his best and after this talk to his team to find a solution for his future....
Don t get me wrong i really dont like to push someone for something he really doesnt like but when i sign a Pro Gamer and pay him thousands of dollars a month i want him to play this kind of stuff cause then i am getting a return of what i ve invested.
We want to become professional? We compare eSport with real sport? Then please lets start to act like pros as a organiztation but expecially also as a player and this kind of behaviour is good for some drama but bad for what tournaments like IEM etc are aiming for.
NaNiwa is a unique guy hard to control actually almost no way you can control him. How many big Starcraft II tournaments did he say he confirms that he visits the tournament and just close before the event he refused but only if you ask him again to make sure he is going....7-10times i guess (3times Asus 3times my own HSC x times Dreamhack)
I m that kind of guy who likes some drama but with IEM even when he didnt like the game anymore or wasnt active enough it has just shown his poor character and was to much!
Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now, I just don't find it fun. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
On March 21 2014 19:35 JacobShock wrote: Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
As big of a naniwa fanboy that i'm i have to admin ur right . you have to add aswel that you missed work in the last 4 " months" becose of you being "ill" wich is very wierd 4 months in a row ( in naniwa case 4 tournaments ).
Naniwa is so full of shit. "best foreign player in 2 weeks" ye of course, like he totally managed to do that before How the hell remained in the scene for so long with this attitude is an enigma to me.
The best players acknowledge their downfalls and respect their opponents. Naniwa is just making up silly excuses while trying to make himself look like nobody's as good as him. What a goddamn idiot.
Sorry for the tone, but this guy is genuinely making me angry.
On March 21 2014 19:35 TaKeSeN wrote: I saw a few people defending him "a good manager would not let him go etc"
I can t get this since he is and got paid to bring results like this (going to a 100k tournament is already awesome promotion) on top of that he was the only foreigner which is even better promotion.
A real professional would go there try to play his best and after this talk to his team to find a solution for his future....
Don t get me wrong i really dont like to push someone for something he really doesnt like but when i sign a Pro Gamer and pay him thousands of dollars a month i want him to play this kind of stuff cause then i am getting a return of what i ve invested.
We want to become professional? We compare eSport with real sport? Then please lets start to act like pros as a organiztation but expecially also as a player and this kind of behaviour is good for some drama but bad for what tournaments like IEM etc are aiming for.
NaNiwa is a unique guy hard to control actually almost no way you can control him. How many big Starcraft II tournaments did he say he confirms that he visits the tournament and just close before the event he refused but only if you ask him again to make sure he is going....7-10times i guess (3times Asus 3times my own HSC x times Dreamhack)
I m that kind of guy who likes some drama but with IEM even when he didnt like the game anymore or wasnt active enough it has just shown his poor character and was to much!
Just my 2 cents
This is a good post, but honestly you shouldn't be surprised at the people defending him because as a poster above pointed out, they've most likely never held a job in their lives, or not for long anyway (and we could even assume why that is, based on what they're saying hehe).
On March 21 2014 19:33 sparklyresidue wrote: also, there are a lot of people in this thread that apparently have never held a job.
Which really isn't surprising considering the main demographic of TL but hey there you go.
Yeah, players should work with managers towards finding the best middle ground between player and team/sponsors, but what people forget is that star players like Naniwa are pampered a lot to begin with, and sometimes it's just not worth it to keep doing that.
He was an excellent player for most of his career though, no question about that.
Finally this douche is getting what is coming to him. It's been soooo frustrating all this time how all my swedish friends love this guy when he's just such an insanely unlikeable guy, being douchy to every one and every thing around him.
I actually thought he was gonna change for a little while there, when he had his Code S run and actually behaved for once, so I actually supported him during that time. But then the format changed to WCS and he turned into the same old Naniwa-douche.
And yes, I totally agree with the statement that all naniwa-supporters seem to be swedish. All of my friends like him and when I bug them about it eventually the only real reasoning they can give is ".. well.. he's swedish" which is just so stupid my brain hurts.
Wonderful way to go out Naniwa, being boo'd off the stage and then kicked by your team, just kind of proves what kind of person you are...
Alliance probably should have let him forfeit on the condition that he would be released for doing it. Would have ended the same way and avoided a lot of grief for everybody involved. Even if IEM hadn't been able to replace him, a walkover would have been better than what we got. Hindsight 20/20, admittedly.
Well, no matter what his behavior was, if he is going to stop playing sc2, then I believe the foreign scene will miss him. Without Nani and Stephano, it's a whole era of foreign hope that is gone as well.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
+1 Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes.
Yes ! thank you ! that what i was trying to say. It's complicated to explain this in english.
But you also cant be sure what were those fights behind the scenes if Naniwa made it completly clear that he wanted to stop with the game or be like Stephano and still kindof play but not be fully commited. I also think that Alliance didnt want to get pressured into letting Naniwa get out of his contract freely, just because of the possible image danger (which they now certaintly got) which Naniwas bm might give to them. So it kindof sucks for everyone (including the viewers) involved into Starcraft
Yes that is very true. We don't know everything. So maybe it's pointless to discuss this. You're right.
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
...It's ironic because he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, but they forced him to play anyway, which resulted in him being removed. How the hell is that complaining?
He says that he was threatened with some kind of consequence if he didn't go. He's said that he hadn't practiced in over a month and he doesn't care about being removed from the team, so what evidence is there the he expected to continue to get paid?
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
+1 Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes.
Yes ! thank you ! that what i was trying to say. It's complicated to explain this in english.
But you also cant be sure what were those fights behind the scenes if Naniwa made it completly clear that he wanted to stop with the game or be like Stephano and still kindof play but not be fully commited. I also think that Alliance didnt want to get pressured into letting Naniwa get out of his contract freely, just because of the possible image danger (which they now certaintly got) which Naniwas bm might give to them. So it kindof sucks for everyone (including the viewers) involved into Starcraft
(@Rude: Np (your English is/ was fine btw)!) We can, indeed, not be sure of what exactly has been going on behind the scenes. We can only speculate but I had the feeling (and mentioned it in the other thread) that some team pressure was placed on Naniwa because even for him, this behavior was strange. His tweets prior to the tournament also suggest he didn't want to be there imo.
On March 21 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote: Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
[/i] yes, you are not a solder, but it doesn't mean if you have to do it or there are occasions you have to listen to what you need to do, and when you are doing what you are told to do, you don't do such a messy job.
you are expected to have a reasonable performance even if you are "forced" to do it. you are still an employee.
Can someone give him the news flash that hes a professional player on a professional team so you must act accordingly. And if you think you were wronged by alliance you deserve to be some unsponsored barcode on the ladder. Because some of the gms on the ladders deserve to be sponsored because they can act professional unlike you naniwa.
On March 21 2014 19:35 TaKeSeN wrote: I saw a few people defending him "a good manager would not let him go etc"
I can t get this since he is and got paid to bring results like this (going to a 100k tournament is already awesome promotion) on top of that he was the only foreigner which is even better promotion.
A real professional would go there try to play his best and after this talk to his team to find a solution for his future....
Don t get me wrong i really dont like to push someone for something he really doesnt like but when i sign a Pro Gamer and pay him thousands of dollars a month i want him to play this kind of stuff cause then i am getting a return of what i ve invested.
We want to become professional? We compare eSport with real sport? Then please lets start to act like pros as a organiztation but expecially also as a player and this kind of behaviour is good for some drama but bad for what tournaments like IEM etc are aiming for.
NaNiwa is a unique guy hard to control actually almost no way you can control him. How many big Starcraft II tournaments did he say he confirms that he visits the tournament and just close before the event he refused but only if you ask him again to make sure he is going....7-10times i guess (3times Asus 3times my own HSC x times Dreamhack)
I m that kind of guy who likes some drama but with IEM even when he didnt like the game anymore or wasnt active enough it has just shown his poor character and was to much!
Just my 2 cents
This is a pretty good post. But when you have an employee that can damage your company, you have to take certain securities. Maybe they didn't thought he could do damage by going to IEM. As we don't really know the behind the thing. It's tough to speculate.
maybe they fired a sc2 player from the roster because the sc2 player wasn't playing sc2 anymore and he forfeited in a huge sc2 tournament in possibly the most scandalous way possible
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
This sure sounds like complaining to me:
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
...It's ironic because he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, but they forced him to play anyway, which resulted in him being removed. How the hell is that complaining?
He says that he was threatened with some kind of consequence if he didn't go. He's said that he hadn't practiced in over a month and he doesn't care about being removed from the team, so what evidence is there the he expected to continue to get paid?
Ok, we obviously have different opinions on what constitutes complaining, so let's leave it at that.
To the second point: the ONLY way with which an employer can legally threaten his employees with is by withholding payment or other contractual benefits, so logically this must have been what Naniwa was feeling threatened by. Ergo, he must have expected some kind of payment.
Stephano is caught in some sort of endless feedback loop of constantly needing more streaming hours, fortunately he has found a way to fill those hours with the fewest amount of games possible.
What exactly is the Stephano situation? He's been streaming a lot lately and it's not as if he needs the money, and at the last homestory he even had an EG jacket, what's the deal?
On March 21 2014 19:35 JacobShock wrote: Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now, I just don't find it fun. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
Funnily enough...that's exactly it.
Now if the job is being a progamer on a progaming team who doesn't want to game professionally anymore...because he decided that the passion he invested so much time into pursuing had died...
Connecting the dots...
A team which was, not coincidentally, pretty much created to hire him so that he could play a videogame professionally for as long as he showed such unwavering desire to win coupled with an attention grabbing personality...
So yeah.
What's being thrown around is that Naniwa somehow has an obligation to play video games professionally, because he's thrown all his eggs into one basket and this is pretty much what he has to do...because it's his job. It's how he makes money.
Naniwa wanted to win. And progaming is not the sort of "career," where these sorts of lenses apply with any degree of accuracy. He decided to quit.
He can do that. I guess, yes, he was fired for his actions. But his motivation was never to retain a career as a professional gamer because it's a sustainable job with income that pays the bills.
Because as everyone always talks about, pursuing progaming as a career like that would be ridiculous. That's just not how it works.
On March 21 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote: Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
yes, you are not a solder, but it doesn't mean if you have to do it or there are occasions you have to listen to what you need to do, and when you are doing what you are told to do, you don't do such a messy job.
you are expected to have a reasonable performance even if you are "forced" to do it. you are still an employee.
[/i]
I think i get what you want to say. It's true sometime you don't have a choice. Even sometime when you are fired and you still have to do some work (in my country, you can't really be fired and not come back the day after. You still have some month to do).
But as a company you need to assert if the last month of work will endanger you or something. Like if i was to get fired, my company would have to make sure i don't attend meetings where i could to some bad things. Because even if i'm to get fired i still can do some bad thing (if i'm unprofessional). So in that case they should have told him to just do online cups or something. But in this line of work you have to get exposure so i'm not sure what they could have done.
I liked naniwa and defended him he'd fuck up, but what he pulled on this tournament... He even thinks he's fully excused because he didn't want to go. What a childish nerd.
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
This sure sounds like complaining to me:
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
...It's ironic because he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, but they forced him to play anyway, which resulted in him being removed. How the hell is that complaining?
He says that he was threatened with some kind of consequence if he didn't go. He's said that he hadn't practiced in over a month and he doesn't care about being removed from the team, so what evidence is there the he expected to continue to get paid?
Ok, we obviously have different opinions on what constitutes complaining, so let's leave it at that.
To the second point: the ONLY way with which an employer can legally threaten his employees with is by withholding payment or other contractual benefits, so logically this must have been what Naniwa was feeling threatened by. Ergo, he must have expected some kind of payment.
Really? IEM, who is not his employer, threatened to withhold payment from him?
If I gave enough of a shit about TL I might put together a spreadsheet of names and try to identify among which members there is overlap between:
1.) Giving Naniwa shit for his lack of professionalism. 2.) Defending the likes of Idra, Incontrol and other serious, high-visibility people for saying and/or doing homophobic, sexist, transphobic and racist shit.
You know, just to get an idea of what this little group of boys and manchildren actually thinks makes a good Starcraft pro. 'Cause I have a feeling that "being a good human being and not a vile waste of life" doesn't really rank all that high for y'all.
That's not to say Naniwa is the best human specimen on the planet, of course. For those unable to read.
On March 21 2014 19:38 BlueFlames wrote: People defending Naniwa must either be really stupid, or never had a job. What a disgrace to the community.
People thinking this should/can be compared with a job must either be really stupid, or have never been a progamer.
See what I did there? By making nonsensical comparisons you can argue with or defend any action no matter how wrong, weird or stupid it is.
I've never been a Naniwa fan until áfter 'his actions' at IEM, simply because of the sheer ridiculousness of the uproar it caused in the increasingly toxic 'community (lol)'.
On March 21 2014 19:38 BlueFlames wrote: People defending Naniwa must either be really stupid, or never had a job. What a disgrace to the community.
People thinking this should/can be compared with a job must either be really stupid, or have never been a progamer.
See what I did there? By making nonsensical comparisons you can argue with or defend any action no matter how wrong, weird or stupid it is.
I've never been a Naniwa fan until áfter 'his actions' at IEM, simply because of the sheer ridiculousness of the uproar it caused in the increasingly toxic 'community (lol)'.
I don't think you quite understand. He chose to forfeit instead of playing two more games in a tournament. He is literally the worst person on the planet, and we need everyone on here to make personal insults against him.
On March 21 2014 19:38 BlueFlames wrote: People defending Naniwa must either be really stupid, or never had a job. What a disgrace to the community.
People thinking this should/can be compared with a job must either be really stupid, or have never been a progamer.
See what I did there? By making nonsensical comparisons you can argue with or defend any action no matter how wrong, weird or stupid it is.
I've never been a Naniwa fan until áfter 'his actions' at IEM, simply because of the sheer ridiculousness of the uproar it caused in the increasingly toxic 'community (lol)'.
I don't think you quite understand. He chose to forfeit instead of playing two more games in a tournament. He is literally the worst person on the planet, and we need everyone on here to make personal insults against him.
On March 21 2014 19:52 Odious_Repeater wrote: If I gave enough of a shit about TL I might put together a spreadsheet of names and try to identify among which members there is overlap between:
1.) Giving Naniwa shit for his lack of professionalism. 2.) Defending the likes of Idra, Incontrol and other serious, high-visibility people for saying and/or doing homophobic, sexist, transphobic and racist shit.
You know, just to get an idea of what this little group of boys and manchildren actually thinks makes a good Starcraft pro. 'Cause I have a feeling that "being a good human being and not a vile waste of life" doesn't really rank all that high for y'all.
That's not to say Naniwa is the best human specimen on the planet, of course. For those unable to read.
People are different. I dislike Naniwa but not iDra for some reason. They were both good at their time. Both said shit and did some pretty similar things. Discutable ones.
But in interviews for exemple, iDra was really more professional than Naniwa. So maybe that's why. Incontrol is a weird one. He is really professional but he got carried away some time and said pretty weird stuff.
I have no opinions of incontrol. I have a good/bad of iDra and a bad one for Naniwa. Maybe people are touched by different kind of behavior acceptance.
On March 21 2014 19:38 BlueFlames wrote: People defending Naniwa must either be really stupid, or never had a job. What a disgrace to the community.
People thinking this should/can be compared with a job must either be really stupid, or have never been a progamer.
See what I did there? By making nonsensical comparisons you can argue with or defend any action no matter how wrong, weird or stupid it is.
I've never been a Naniwa fan until áfter 'his actions' at IEM, simply because of the sheer ridiculousness of the uproar it caused in the increasingly toxic 'community (lol)'.
Pro gaming is his job so the comparison is just fine.
The definition of the word job. "job1 [job] noun 1. a piece of work, especially a specific task done as part of the routine of one's occupation or for an agreed price: She gave him the job of mowing the lawn. 2. a post of employment; full-time or part-time position: She was seeking a job as an editor. 3. anything a person is expected or obliged to do; duty; responsibility: It is your job to be on time. 4. an affair, matter, occurrence, or state of affairs: to make the best of a bad job. 5. the material, project, assignment, etc., being worked upon: The housing project was a long and costly job."
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
This sure sounds like complaining to me:
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
...It's ironic because he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, but they forced him to play anyway, which resulted in him being removed. How the hell is that complaining?
He says that he was threatened with some kind of consequence if he didn't go. He's said that he hadn't practiced in over a month and he doesn't care about being removed from the team, so what evidence is there the he expected to continue to get paid?
Ok, we obviously have different opinions on what constitutes complaining, so let's leave it at that.
To the second point: the ONLY way with which an employer can legally threaten his employees with is by withholding payment or other contractual benefits, so logically this must have been what Naniwa was feeling threatened by. Ergo, he must have expected some kind of payment.
Really? IEM, who is not his employer, threatened to withhold payment from him?
Wtf? Obviously IEM can't threaten him with anything, and he didn't even speak to them at all (neither does he claim so, nor does Kennigit's post indicate that they even talked to the team). He talked to his team, and they applied the perceived pressure he felt threatened by. For the rest see the reasoning in my prior post.
On March 21 2014 19:35 JacobShock wrote: Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now, I just don't find it fun. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
And then an even more weird thing happens: people that actually care about my work start giving me flak because of it. What a buch of ignorant fucks, right? I told them that i find my work boring, so what do they expect?! That i give my best anyways for one last time? Are these guys stupid? They should be grateful to me because they had the honor to be graced with my existence in the first place.
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
This sure sounds like complaining to me:
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
...It's ironic because he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, but they forced him to play anyway, which resulted in him being removed. How the hell is that complaining?
He says that he was threatened with some kind of consequence if he didn't go. He's said that he hadn't practiced in over a month and he doesn't care about being removed from the team, so what evidence is there the he expected to continue to get paid?
Ok, we obviously have different opinions on what constitutes complaining, so let's leave it at that.
To the second point: the ONLY way with which an employer can legally threaten his employees with is by withholding payment or other contractual benefits, so logically this must have been what Naniwa was feeling threatened by. Ergo, he must have expected some kind of payment.
Really? IEM, who is not his employer, threatened to withhold payment from him?
Wtf? Obviously IEM can't threaten him with anything, and he didn't even speak to them at all (neither does he claim so, nor does Kennigit's post indicate that they even talked to the team). He talked to his team, and they applied the perceived pressure he felt threatened by. For the rest see the reasoning in my prior post.
I think technically ESL can fine his WCS money for that.
On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote: How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired? At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
This sure sounds like complaining to me:
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
...It's ironic because he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, but they forced him to play anyway, which resulted in him being removed. How the hell is that complaining?
He says that he was threatened with some kind of consequence if he didn't go. He's said that he hadn't practiced in over a month and he doesn't care about being removed from the team, so what evidence is there the he expected to continue to get paid?
Ok, we obviously have different opinions on what constitutes complaining, so let's leave it at that.
To the second point: the ONLY way with which an employer can legally threaten his employees with is by withholding payment or other contractual benefits, so logically this must have been what Naniwa was feeling threatened by. Ergo, he must have expected some kind of payment.
Really? IEM, who is not his employer, threatened to withhold payment from him?
Wtf? Obviously IEM can't threaten him with anything, and he didn't even speak to them at all (neither does he claim so, nor does Kennigit's post indicate that they even talked to the team). He talked to his team, and they applied the perceived pressure he felt threatened by. For the rest see the reasoning in my prior post.
"but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )"
You can think about Nani what you want. I think he was good for the scene at some point. I don't think he is anymore. It's just sad that even in his "explanation"-post he has to be such an arrogant douche.
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
I mean seriously..? Why don't go with at least a little bit of dignity?
would it really have been so hard for him to just play all the games and then leave with his dignity intact!?! i really don't get what he was thinking, it would have cost him like half an hour or at most an hour more of his time, so stupid. now it will be really tough for him to ever make a comeback in a halfway decent team, even in future games like maybe warcraft 4 or whatever.
This is simply the obvious result of the unprofessionalism that Nani sadly displayed at IEM. I'm a diehard Faniwa who will cheer for him both in SC2 and afk but come on =P It seems that Nani has to learn that the scene doesnt exist only for him to follow his goals. It comes with some obligations that you'll eventually have to live up to even during times of low motivation.
Reputation isn't everything, but keeping it high can help. Additionally, the efforts to do so will probably end up faciliating working in the scene for people in one's surroundings. So why not be a star, AND a role model? White-Ra was both for ages, and the koreans still are (yes, I'm kinda copying MC's words from a while back with that, but the point stands).
I'm happy that he has confidence of getting back with little practice. Because of this, I have absolute faith that Nani will get over the hump and come back for LotV! Finns chansen att vara den bästa kommer alltid motivationen tillbaka ^^
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
The SC community is better off without his malignant BM. If he changes that and learns to react well with others, then he MIGHT have a chance to get be picked up by another sponsor. Whatever. Take care of yourself.
On March 21 2014 20:07 tOOkOmA4U wrote: would it really have been so hard for him to just play all the games and then leave with his dignity intact!?! i really don't get what he was thinking, it would have cost him like half an hour or at most an hour more of his time, so stupid. now it will be really tough for him to ever make a comeback in a halfway decent team, even in future games like maybe warcraft 4 or whatever.
What if he doesn't care? He's 24; he's clearly not going to become a professional in another game.
After what happened to IdrA and the extremely similar circumstances (with Naniwa insulting the community through social media) I'm not surprised. It would be inconsistent not to kick Naniwa.
On March 21 2014 20:10 aeligos wrote: Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
The SC community is better off without his malignant BM. If he changes that and learns to react well with others, then he MIGHT have a chance to get be picked up by another sponsor. Whatever. Take care of yourself.
Well i'm not sure about that. If a team wants a "bad boy" they could take him. Naniwa isn't THAT bm. There's players on ladder that say a lot of worst things.
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
If they did we'd at least have a guarantee that he'd be back in SC2 soon....
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
Seems like reasonable action to fire him for being completely unprofessional.
Funny thing though is that the people who were condemning him the most for taking someone else's place in the tournament, completely forgot that now and have new terrible thing to condemn. The previous excuse for bashing him conveniently forgotten as it seems to have been false.
"Yeah, I know he has been an asshole to his last 47 girlfriends but with me it's going to be different..."
I've heard the rumor that water is wet, can anyone confirm/deny?
edit: I'd totally tune in for Naniwa on any moba/team based game. Not for the games themselves obviously, but the nuclear fallout after losses would be hysterical.
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
This discussion is getting funnier by the minute. Naniwa was almost on every notable team there is or was in SC 2. Which team or sponsor with any self-respect would want to work with a guy like that?
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
This discussion is getting funnier by the minute. Naniwa was almost on every notable team there is or was in SC 2. Which team or sponsor with any self-respect would want to work with a guy like that?
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
This discussion is getting funnier by the minute. Naniwa was almost on every notable team there is or was in SC 2. Which team or sponsor with any self-respect would want to work with a guy like that?
Liquid'Naniwa!!!!!
Well he is retired now, so thats a possibility i guess :-p
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
This discussion is getting funnier by the minute. Naniwa was almost on every notable team there is or was in SC 2. Which team or sponsor with any self-respect would want to work with a guy like that?
Liquid'Naniwa!!!!!
Nazgul probably want to put your head against the wall for saying that.
Yes, Naniwa is a douche, but damn - he is one hell of a player! Whatever you may think of him, you can never take away the fact that he is the best foreigner of all time - in terms of consistency and pure results!
Naniwa and all time the same story. All other fault but Naniwa is an Angel. He is a princess and nothing more. The other think is he say he dont want to play sc2 anymore. Why you need a clan if you dont play the game? this makes absolut no sense. He is the master of weasel words.
Aah, the situation was handled very poorly by all three parties, that’s for sure. If IEM and Alliance insisted on Naniwa going to the finals then it’s Naniwa’s responsibility to put on a good show or at least make sure not to offend the viewers, which he did in a very, very childish manner. Ultimately though, if they had the viewers at mind then they’d either let Naniwa forfeit his spot or Naniwa would openly break his obligation to go (if there was any) stating it’s better for the viewers and he’d suffer the consequences in good faith that IEM and Alliance understand.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
On March 21 2014 20:39 Solid_J wrote: Yes, Naniwa is a douche, but damn - he is one hell of a player! Whatever you may think of him, you can never take away the fact that he is the best foreigner of all time - in terms of consistency and pure results!
Thats debatable. Though he is one of the best foreigners of all time.
He is a bit of a dick in the way he goes about saying/doing things but there's something refreshing about how brutally honest and transparent Naniwa is, somewhat similar to the way Idra was/is. Atleast you know you he isn't ever going to suck up to anyone and I liked the way he always had a ton of respect for the players (Koreans) who were better than him. He really is leagues ahead of any other foreigner protoss and the comment he made about coming back and being the best foreigner in 2 weeks is pretty true imo - in the same way Garry Kasparov could still spank most of the top chess grandmasters in the world years after retiring.
Naniwa will be back after he realises that right now sc2 is what he is good at, he just treats it like a game right now rather than a job but soon he will realise its a much better job than most of the things that will be available to him, and far better paid.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
I think that any manager involved in esports after all these years that doesn't take into account "NaNiwa factor" in such situations is a manager that is not very good at what he does.
I don't understand how anyone can like Naniwa. He's such a brat. EG wants you to play at a tournament, you go play at a tournament. That's your job as a professional player.
Also, why would EG keep him if he won't play anymore. Good riddance I say.
So many haters of Nani... You can't really argue with his results. He is arguably the best foreigner, if not 'one of the best' foreigners who was able to consistently post decent results against Koreans. All his accomplishments, he got it through undeniable hard work. I for one will be sad to see him go. He's always been an entertaining player for me personally, especially with all the dramas he seem to attract.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
yeah... or you just uphold your end of the contract.
Not a single team or sponsor will want him given his poor behavior that he has exhibited, so I don't understand why he feels he alone will make his comeback a reality...
Naniwa never had a problem getting sponsors as far as I know, no matter the controversy in his wake.
I think EG.eu loses an asset, but maybe they will pick him up for LoL. I think teamsports would do him some good. He is a good kid.
On March 21 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote: Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
yes, you are not a solder, but it doesn't mean if you have to do it or there are occasions you have to listen to what you need to do, and when you are doing what you are told to do, you don't do such a messy job.
you are expected to have a reasonable performance even if you are "forced" to do it. you are still an employee.
I think i get what you want to say. It's true sometime you don't have a choice. Even sometime when you are fired and you still have to do some work (in my country, you can't really be fired and not come back the day after. You still have some month to do).
But as a company you need to assert if the last month of work will endanger you or something. Like if i was to get fired, my company would have to make sure i don't attend meetings where i could to some bad things. Because even if i'm to get fired i still can do some bad thing (if i'm unprofessional). So in that case they should have told him to just do online cups or something. But in this line of work you have to get exposure so i'm not sure what they could have done.
[/i] honestly, most other industry or company would not have this kind of issue because it would spoil one's reputation so bad that no company would accept him.
On March 21 2014 21:13 ReMinD_ wrote: I don't understand how anyone can like Naniwa. He's such a brat. EG wants you to play at a tournament, you go play at a tournament. That's your job as a professional player.
Also, why would EG keep him if he won't play anymore. Good riddance I say.
I don't think he did anything unexpected considering we saw Probe Rush. But you can't deny his results and his air protoss style was very fun to watch.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
yeah... or you just uphold your end of the contract.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
Anyone asking him to put his personal feelings aside, would basically be asking Naniwa, not to be Naniwa. Naniwa can't. Many can, but he cannot. Because he is a genuine person with a lot of emotions.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
yeah... or you just uphold your end of the contract.
Do you know his contract? :>
everyone's contract has a clause that says the management will review and monitor your performance is up to standard. I don't think any company that won't have this clause in it, it might be worded differently but it will always be there.
Can you imagine wat wud happen in a game of DoTa with Naniwa in it.... OMGGGGGGGG..... Probe rush? If he wanted to BM in DoTA theres 985634673888722x ways to do it. LOL!
On March 21 2014 18:30 Foxxan wrote: If i was a professional player And its no soundproof I would be really mad
How did soundproofing matter at all? He didn't care anyway. He didn't even try to win. He didn't train before the tournament! Not even one single game.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
No, he does not have a competetive mind. He has a narcissistic mind. He only can give his best, when he feels that he personally can gain anything from the game. A professional competitor will give his best (or atleast be somewhat entertaining) whenever there is at least 1 guy in the audience who paid for watching him perform.
It blows my mind that he was in the business for such a long time and still does not understand the necessity of reputation of yourself and the people and companys you represent.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
Anyone asking him to put his personal feelings aside, would basically be asking Naniwa, not to be Naniwa. Naniwa can't. Many can, but he cannot. Because he is a genuine person with a lot of emotions.
Oh man, I almost felt tears reading this. Almost !
i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
Anyone asking him to put his personal feelings aside, would basically be asking Naniwa, not to be Naniwa. Naniwa can't. Many can, but he cannot. Because he is a genuine person with a lot of emotions.
This baffles me. There is no way they can threaten him to go to anything, they can say they will kick him if he doesn't but he didn't want to work anymore so that would happen anyway. Again hes shifting blame for his decision on to other people. "They said I would be fired if I didnt go, they threatend me"....
Further you pretend that he then ahd no choice but to act like a dick because of his oh so fragile emotions...
Naniwa has never taken responsibility for his own actions, but every step of the way to the giant fuck up that was the end of his career was by his own making.
First he lies about soundproofing, unless he was the only player there who noticed it, and now he blames his team for "forcing" him to go. Grow up, grow a pair and take responsibility of your own actions.
I really understand how frustrating it must have been to be forced to go to a tournament you really didnt want to participate in. But still I think it would have than been better to go off in a quiet way by just loosing to Polt instead of doing that sound proofing move.
I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
The question is whether he did something wrong by retiring before his contract was up. If the contract stipulates that the contractee cannot terminate it himself, then forcing this on Alliancce was wrong. If it did not however, then there is insufficient information to decide whether he was in the wrong on this point. We don't know when/how Naniwa informed his team that he was no longer playing. If he did this when he stopped, the situation at IEM should never have occured: Alliance should merely have released him then, when he expressed he had no intention to keep playing.
Naniwa is completely right when points out that he was not required to transfer his spot at IEM, after it became clear to him that he did not want to compete. Such a decision is up to the event organizer, who determines the criteria for competing, who according to Naniwa were informed that he did not wish to participate. When they pressured him into going, they set themselves up for this to happen.
I also want to address the hate mongering that has surrounded Naniwa ever since he entered the scene: It's pathetic how the community at large have assigned him as a punchingbag because of his demeanor, frankness, and impulsiveness. These personality traits do not give you a licence to bully a person. By doing so, you're starting a vicious cycle where he will respond spontaneusly and emotionally, which will set him up for further abuse. All these comments of "I hate him" "Has he been diagnosed yet?" "What a loser." are frankly cruel, and ironically go way beyond any wrongdoing he may have committed. The willingness of every forumgoer and his dog to jump on every situation he handles suboptimally, with the contempt of someone witnessing a warcrime, is a cyber assault of negativity, and you wonder why he calls this community disgusting? The hypocracy is so ripe you can taste it.
I'm glad he's leaving. He will be better off out of the microscope people have put him under, free to be himself without all this judgement.
This will probably be a good time for me to leave aswell, in the sense that I won't be posting here ever again. Unfortunately, it still seems like the best place to find tournament results, schedules, etc, so I guess I'll still be using that.
Don't ever think this place is above the standards of the internet at large: It's not.
On March 21 2014 20:43 TaShadan wrote: I thought he will take a break/retire anyway?
yah, which makes the whole thing even more hilarious. Alliance forced a dude who was known to be on the verge of quitting (if he hadn't already quit mentally) to play after being told he didn't want to play.
the same guy who did a probe rush in korea in a game he didn't want to play, except this time he told people he didn't want to play
there was only one result from this. history doom repeat learn something something
people (like kas) mocking him for being 'fired' are kinda missing the point. it's almost a perverse form of mutual constructive dismissal. the firing is hardly a punishment, it's almost a reward. there's no real disappointment there i don't think. nani's hands were washed with this thing well before he got 'released'. that the team failed to identify this issue correctly is rather amusing
no one looks good from this, not nani, not alliance (are they really run by the same people who run EG? find it hard to believe they'd be so incompetent), not the people defending him, and definitely not the people gloating. it's one big silly joke with a big stage punchline. it brings me great uhh... schadenfreude, to see so many people just fail so hard at eSports.
On March 21 2014 16:17 Shinobi1982 wrote: He sure as hell deserves it. I was always a fan of Naniwa but he is just too "uninformed" (to put it lightly) to see why he needs to be at that tournament.
Why he needs to be at the tournament?
Because of money. I think it's simple enough for him to get it. He just openly rejects the money-oriented attitude.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
I think, I'd replace Idra and Jinro with MaNa and Nerchio, but yeah, something like that. I think, even as a Nani-supporter, I have to admit that Stephano is the foreigner with the biggest impact for now.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
No, he does not have a competetive mind. He has a narcissistic mind. He only can give his best, when he feels that he personally can gain anything from the game. A professional competitor will give his best (or atleast be somewhat entertaining) whenever there is at least 1 guy in the audience who paid for watching him perform.
It blows my mind that he was in the business for such a long time and still does not understand the necessity of reputation of yourself and the people and companys you represent.
Competetive mind has nothing to do with people watching or paying to watch or whatever. That is working as an entertainer and the opposite of what Nani was doing. His competetive mind was shown by his drive to win at all costs, his trip to korea and him skipping big tournies just to train GSL. Ofc. he did'nt show that at IEM but he said months before, that he would'nt care that much about that. In general his career was in a competetive mindset, otherwise he would'nt have spent the biggest part of 2012 in korea.
On March 21 2014 21:44 Odecey wrote: I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
This is so amazingly wrong that it is good that you said you won't be coming back. Naniwa was being paid under contract to play there. His obligation was to go and play the best games possible and for that he was given a salary by his team.
He neither represented Alliance nor himself well by his actions.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
No, he does not have a competetive mind. He has a narcissistic mind. He only can give his best, when he feels that he personally can gain anything from the game. A professional competitor will give his best (or atleast be somewhat entertaining) whenever there is at least 1 guy in the audience who paid for watching him perform.
If he was narcissistic, rather than competitive, he would care about how he looked, you are going in the opposite direction.
Naniwa is the best foreigner because he is perfectionistic, and he is fueled by passion. If the passion is not there, or nothing is at stake, he can't give a good performance, which by Naniwa standards is not just being happy to participate. His stride for being the best, is what got him there, and there are consequences, when he is not there, or this not being understood.
It blows my mind that he was in the business for such a long time and still does not understand the necessity of reputation of yourself and the people and companys you represent.
Naniwa is not like everyone else. Which is why he was better than everyone else at what he was doing. If you try to take this out of Naniwa, you have a shell that cannot perform, as he was fueled by passion.
He can't be a Thorzain-type of swede, because he is not. Just like IdrA couldn't be someone else. Nor should he have to be.
On March 21 2014 21:44 Odecey wrote: I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
The question is whether he did something wrong by retiring before his contract was up. If the contract stipulates that the contractee cannot terminate it himself, then forcing this on Alliancce was wrong. If it did not however, then there is insufficient information to decide whether he was in the wrong on this point. We don't know when/how Naniwa informed his team that he was no longer playing. If he did this when he stopped, the situation at IEM should never have occured: Alliance should merely have released him then, when he expressed he had no intention to keep playing.
Naniwa is completely right when points out that he was not required to transfer his spot at IEM, after it became clear to him that he did not want to compete. Such a decision is up to the event organizer, who determines the criteria for competing, who according to Naniwa were informed that he did not wish to participate. When they pressured him into going, they set themselves up for this to happen.
I also want to address the hate mongering that has surrounded Naniwa ever since he entered the scene: It's pathetic how the community at large have assigned him as a punchingbag because of his demeanor, frankness, and impulsiveness. These personality traits do not give you a licence to bully a person. By doing so, you're starting a vicious cycle where he will respond spontaneusly and emotionally, which will set him up for further abuse. All these comments of "I hate him" "Has he been diagnosed yet?" "What a loser." are frankly cruel, and ironically go way beyond any wrongdoing he may have committed. The willingness of every forumgoer and his dog to jump on every situation he handles suboptimally, with the contempt of someone witnessing a warcrime, is a cyber assault of negativity, and you wonder why he calls this community disgusting? The hypocracy is so ripe you can taste it.
I'm glad he's leaving. He will be better off out of the microscope people have put him under, free to be himself without all this judgement.
This will probably be a good time for me to leave aswell, in the sense that I won't be posting here ever again. Unfortunately, it still seems like the best place to find tournament results, schedules, etc, so I guess I'll still be using that.
Don't ever think this place is above the standards of the internet at large: It's not.
I'm sorry but this attempt to make something infantile into something highminded is jsut silly. He didn't want to play anymore so unless Alliance is terrible at writing contracts I'm pretty sure someone deciding to stop doing their job will let them fire that person. They probably told him to go if he didn't want to be fired, being "threatened" to do your job if you want to keep it is not threatening on any level. So he decided to go, and he decided to throw, and he decided to lie about the reason, and here we are with him still blaming other people.
Nobody is being bullied, he acted like a dick, he got called out for it and insted of letting it go he pulls back the horses corps ones more, he did that, Naniwa. His "fragility" emotionwise which people keeps using as a defense is jsut silly.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
No no no that's not what i wanted to say. If you feel the guy may endanger you by that last Bo5, it would be better to not send him and fire him on an agreement.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
I thought that was quite funny, but Kas is also a notorious whiner.
I think Kas mindeset has took a positive swing since 2014 began, although he still has occasional whniy comments. But he tweeted something about going from 30 to 80 % winrate in TvP as well since the last patch and that his mental bock would be broken.
I thought that was quite funny, but Kas is also a notorious whiner.
I think Kas mindeset has took a positive swing since 2014 began, although he still has occasional whniy comments. But he tweeted something about going from 30 to 80 % winrate in TvP as well since the last patch and that his mental bock would be broken.
That's good for him, glad that he is finally getting a better mindset!
On March 21 2014 21:59 jax1492 wrote: Nani has valid points, they should not have forced him to do anything.
Not really. It's not : "company should not force employee because of the employee" (if that's what you want to say).
- A company can force a employee do to stuff. - A company that will do that but don't take account that forcing the guy could endanger your image is making a mistake. - Naniwa had the right to forfeit. - Naniwa was obliged to go to the IEM because he was told too (and not forced) because he is under contract.
He should have resigned if he didn't want to go. Maybe it's more complicated than that surely. But he doesn't have valid point. If you go. You be professional. If you don't want to go. You resign.
Sorry if that doesn't make sense. It's hard to argue in english and make valid point.
On March 21 2014 22:03 CubanPete wrote: So this proves the soundproof excuse was pure BS?
No it doesn't. The discussion is more on the fact that he says he has been kicked out and arguments on management desicion and naniwa decision.
On March 21 2014 20:20 mcc wrote:Funny thing though is that the people who were condemning him the most for taking someone else's place in the tournament, completely forgot that now and have new terrible thing to condemn. The previous excuse for bashing him conveniently forgotten as it seems to have been false.
I find this interesting too.
First people rant and rave about what a dick move it was to take up a tournament slot, how someone else more deserving could have had it, etc etc, and how this was "typical Naniwa" to not care about the fans or the audience who paid money for tickets and the poor organizers and whatnot.
Then it turns out he was forced to go (I tried to point this out in the first thread but it got ignored among all the hate posts), and now people completely forget about being wrong there and instead find something else to focus the hate on... "he forfeited two games, burn him!!"
Seriously people. When will you stop being so assuming and judgemental just because you've made up your mind that you don't like a person's pointy surface? Look a bit deeper, and sometimes you might be surprised. Not always, and maybe not necessarily in this case - but sometimes.
This is what the typical hater posts look to me:
Week 1: "Seriously, he should've just stayed away and not brought his shitty attitude to IEM. Why even bother to come when he didn't want to play anyway? Other players would've given anything to be there!"
Week 2: "I don't get how unprofessional Naniwa is! If your team tells you to go attend a tournament, you go do your job!"
Which is it people? Yes, you could say that he should have gone and played out two more games, even if it was in his full rights to forfeit. It still doesn't explain your assumptions that he was a dick for going on the tournament in the first place.
On March 21 2014 21:44 Odecey wrote: I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
The question is whether he did something wrong by retiring before his contract was up. If the contract stipulates that the contractee cannot terminate it himself, then forcing this on Alliancce was wrong. If it did not however, then there is insufficient information to decide whether he was in the wrong on this point. We don't know when/how Naniwa informed his team that he was no longer playing. If he did this when he stopped, the situation at IEM should never have occured: Alliance should merely have released him then, when he expressed he had no intention to keep playing.
Naniwa is completely right when points out that he was not required to transfer his spot at IEM, after it became clear to him that he did not want to compete. Such a decision is up to the event organizer, who determines the criteria for competing, who according to Naniwa were informed that he did not wish to participate. When they pressured him into going, they set themselves up for this to happen.
I also want to address the hate mongering that has surrounded Naniwa ever since he entered the scene: It's pathetic how the community at large have assigned him as a punchingbag because of his demeanor, frankness, and impulsiveness. These personality traits do not give you a licence to bully a person. By doing so, you're starting a vicious cycle where he will respond spontaneusly and emotionally, which will set him up for further abuse. All these comments of "I hate him" "Has he been diagnosed yet?" "What a loser." are frankly cruel, and ironically go way beyond any wrongdoing he may have committed. The willingness of every forumgoer and his dog to jump on every situation he handles suboptimally, with the contempt of someone witnessing a warcrime, is a cyber assault of negativity, and you wonder why he calls this community disgusting? The hypocracy is so ripe you can taste it.
I'm glad he's leaving. He will be better off out of the microscope people have put him under, free to be himself without all this judgement.
This will probably be a good time for me to leave aswell, in the sense that I won't be posting here ever again. Unfortunately, it still seems like the best place to find tournament results, schedules, etc, so I guess I'll still be using that.
Don't ever think this place is above the standards of the internet at large: It's not.
Wow, such an eloquent post. It's really heart-lifting to hear people like you speak up and to see that they actually exist. Unfortunately, eloquent comments happen here way too rarely.
It's sad that you are considering leaving this community, but I fully understand why you are thinking about that. In fact, I expect that my participation in this forum will decease over time as well.
On March 21 2014 18:55 Drake wrote: "i am sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. "
Well Naniwa is a interesting person that's for sure. Not like all the other players. He just dont care about what others think of him, and he's to overconfident about his own abilities in general. That attitude towards things will be problematic for him. You should care about your bridges, you never know when they will come in handy. I like him as a player, but not as a person.
I think if naniwa just lost instead of forfeiting his match he wouldnt have been released from Alliance... cuz honestly i think alliance wouldve kept him as a permanent or at least a long-term member if he didnt create this kind of drama... but it is naniwa and i commend him for making such a bold and drastic move. gl to him in the future and i hope he doesnt retire.
I'm Happy that Naniwa is finally gone. He was a good Player and definetly one of the best foreingners. But he was not nearly as good as he thought he was, and when he failed he always blamed it on balance or the tournament Organiseres. He always complained when he Lost to an All In although his whole succes was based an doing All Ins and that he believes that he could be the best foreigner again if he would practise 2 weaks is just ridicolous. Stephano still plays quite a bit and is still really bad right now. And he was way better than Naniwa in his Prime, because unlike him he actually won big Tournaments. In my opinion Naniwas toxic behavior did more harm to the Starcraft scene than his succes has ever done good.
On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote: gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude.
Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting.
Bravo.
You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life, otherwise the person who is going to need luck in life will be you.
On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote: gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude.
Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting.
Bravo.
You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life or the person who is going to need luck in life will be you.
You do see the irony in what you are writing here right?
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me )
i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote: I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways.
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
No, he does not have a competetive mind. He has a narcissistic mind. He only can give his best, when he feels that he personally can gain anything from the game. A professional competitor will give his best (or atleast be somewhat entertaining) whenever there is at least 1 guy in the audience who paid for watching him perform.
If he was narcissistic, rather than competitive, he would care about how he looked, you are going in the opposite direction.
Naniwa is the best foreigner because he is perfectionistic, and he is fueled by passion. If the passion is not there, or nothing is at stake, he can't give a good performance, which by Naniwa standards is not just being happy to participate. His stride for being the best, is what got him there, and there are consequences, when he is not there, or this not being understood.
It blows my mind that he was in the business for such a long time and still does not understand the necessity of reputation of yourself and the people and companys you represent.
Naniwa is not like everyone else. Which is why he was better than everyone else at what he was doing. If you try to take this out of Naniwa, you have a shell that cannot perform, as he was fueled by passion.
He can't be a Thorzain-type of swede, because he is not. Just like IdrA couldn't be someone else. Nor should he have to be.
Caring about how you come across, is not what narcissistic entails. In fact it means the direct opposite, you don't care how you come across, because you are already sure that you are awesome. It means that you think you are always in the right, you are something special, etc. look here for more info. Just look at the symptoms, at least 5 out of the 7 can be directly applied.
That is why he thinks all the failure is never his fault its always others who did him wrong and he can do whatever the hell he wants.
Also "Which is why he was better than everyone else at what he was doing." is just plain wrong, because koreans. Even the "best foreigner thing" is highly debatable imo.
Without seeing the exact terms of the contract we can't specualte if what he did was out of order. If there was no contractual obligation to play SC2 then he's totally fine refusing to play.
If I was writing the contract it would have something like "make reasonable effort to perform" and I would add a notice period where if the player stopped practicing they were obviously in breach of the above and payment would be terminated.
It could have been a really weak contract so i'm not going to make judgements of Alliance or Naniwa.
Sounds to me that he should have insisted not going there to find out what these "consequences" from IEM would be. Better to get removed from the team before the event, seeing how you just quit, than going there and not really caring about playing.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote: gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude.
Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting.
Bravo.
You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life or the person who is going to need luck in life will be you.
You do see the irony in what you are writing here right?
So you're thinking that I'm increasing my self esteem by bashing other people? Well, you can think it. The only thing I'm saying here is that mindlessly following the crowd is not going to lead you anywhere in life. This is obvious to me and there are many examples for that. So if somebody mindlessly follows the crow in hate toward a person that actually has a personality and a direction in life, then for me the only way of explaining it is that this person basically feels better this way, which is pitiful.
On March 21 2014 18:55 Drake wrote: "i am sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. "
i am sure not ...
Actually that's probably true. SADLY.
I think he exaggerated the time period - I think he could achieve it in 2-6 months. Anyways, the point he makes here is clear - he could make it, unless there is a new talent appearing on the scene, or Scarlet buffs her skill in Korea in next months, which would make it harder for Naniwa to be the best foreigner again.
On March 21 2014 20:20 mcc wrote:Funny thing though is that the people who were condemning him the most for taking someone else's place in the tournament, completely forgot that now and have new terrible thing to condemn. The previous excuse for bashing him conveniently forgotten as it seems to have been false.
I find this interesting too.
First people rant and rave about what a dick move it was to take up a tournament slot, how someone else more deserving could have had it, etc etc, and how this was "typical Naniwa" to not care about the fans or the audience who paid money for tickets and the poor organizers and whatnot.
Then it turns out he was forced to go (I tried to point this out in the first thread but it got ignored among all the hate posts), and now people completely forget about being wrong there and instead find something else to focus the hate on... "he forfeited two games, burn him!!"
Seriously people. When will you stop being so assuming and judgemental just because you've made up your mind that you don't like a person's pointy surface? Look a bit deeper, and sometimes you might be surprised. Not always, and maybe not necessarily in this case - but sometimes.
This is what the typical hater posts look to me:
Week 1: "Seriously, he should've just stayed away and not brought his shitty attitude to IEM. Why even bother to come when he didn't want to play anyway? Other players would've given anything to be there!"
Week 2: "I don't get how unprofessional Naniwa is! If your team tells you to go attend a tournament, you go do your job!"
Which is it people? Yes, you could say that he should have gone and played out two more games, even if it was in his full rights to forfeit. It still doesn't explain your assumptions that he was a dick for going on the tournament in the first place.
I don't see how the two statements have to be contradictory, merely mutually exclusive. He should be at least trying to play the game for which he is sponsored to do. If not, why show up in the first place? That he chose that something in between is probably more unprofessional than either-or. Either he should have stayed for the duration, or not show up at all. It would have been best for him to play the games, a bit tattered should he have left prior (a sour twinge between him and Alliance, but little more), but he made a grandiose gesture by forfeiting halfway, which was the worst thing he could have done. He essentially gave the bird to IEM, to Alliance, and to the community that cheered him on.
If you look back at the string of tweets, statements and acts by Naniwa since and including IEM, you can't deny that he REALLY wanted to burn those bridges. Nothing he's said hasn't incited riots on the forums and elsewhere.
On March 21 2014 21:40 Scarx wrote: I really understand how frustrating it must have been to be forced to go to a tournament you really didnt want to participate in. But still I think it would have than been better to go off in a quiet way by just loosing to Polt instead of doing that sound proofing move.
Loosing in a quiet game, just for the sake of "dying slow", so that the community can adapt to it and get the arguments to hate on his skills? I actually think he did the right thing. Naniwa may be arrogant, but he has honor.
How can you force Naniwa to do anything? He signed that contract and if he breaches that contract he has to face the consequences he agreed to.
His options are: A: fullfilling his contract and receive money for it Or B: breaching the contract and suffer the consequences (whatever is written in his contract he himself agreed to)
He doesnt want to fullfill his contract but he still wants to get paid. It doesnt work like this. Its his choice wether he attends or not.
I'd like to know Aliance's reasoning behind forcing him to go to the event. They may of been contractually obligated by sponsors. But as it stands I think it makes the organization look pretty bad and I would appreciate a statement from them.
I just want to say a big thank you to all of the Faniwas coming to his defense. You gave me some good laughs this morning, and you all have bright careers as lawyers ahead of you.
All this sad, lonely, 24 year old wanted was to retire from his painful, dangerous job of playing video games, but he was forced by an evil master to travel--by airplane, mind you--to Poland and stay in a hotel and was forced to play even more video games. How can such horrors still exist in the world? Is there no rule of law? To what depths hath society fallen? Details of the Naniwa relief fund to be released soon.
I don't think the Alliance brand will stick around in sc2 after SortOf's contract expires. Alex made a good choice experimenting with signing naniwa without risking the EG brand image, but after what happened and how little Alliance really contributes to sc2, there's not much of a reason for it to stick around
On March 21 2014 22:40 Sircanis wrote: I just want to say a big thank you to all of the Faniwas coming to his defense. You gave me some good laughs this morning, and you all have bright careers as lawyers ahead of you.
All this sad, lonely, 24 year old wanted was to retire from his painful, dangerous job of playing video games, but he was forced by an evil master to travel--by airplane, mind you--to Poland and stay in a hotel and was forced to play even more video games. How can such horrors still exist in the world? Is there no rule of law? To what depths hath society fallen? Details of the Naniwa relief fund to be released soon.
Let's be positive and move on. Even Naniwa should do just that!
well, i am not interested anymore what this guy does or not. i am fed up with the drama and the immaturity of his actions. it doesnt matter who has the responsibility for it, i am past the point where i laughed about it. now i am not interested anymore. this guy wont make it, he has no guts. and i am not even sad about it.
there are millions of people in the world that want just one single chance but they never get it, but they keep fighting for it, some are dying of hunger, war or diseases, some are just poor because they are born in the wrong country. and this guy keeps throwing chances away, acting like a spoiled brat.
just leave him be, others will take his place and they will be better suited for it.
he's probably gonna take a shot at playing sth else competitively, most likely lol. but since that game requires you to be part of a team his chances are very slim. i think he'll be back to sc in lotv, unless he finds a 1v1 game that he can make a living out of, tho i don't know of any such game right now.
On March 21 2014 22:46 Kabras wrote: he's probably gonna take a shot at playing sth else competitively, most likely lol. but since that game requires you to be part of a team his chances are very slim. i think he'll be back to sc in lotv, unless he finds a 1v1 game that he can make a living out of, tho i don't know of any such game right now.
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
[quote]
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote: [quote]
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote: latest post from Johan:
[quote]
so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg.
He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him.
But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create.
Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story...
On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote: [quote]
That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ?
You can and you should.
If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked.
There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
Quoted for the truth
If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending."
Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf?
Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there.
No, he does not have a competetive mind. He has a narcissistic mind. He only can give his best, when he feels that he personally can gain anything from the game. A professional competitor will give his best (or atleast be somewhat entertaining) whenever there is at least 1 guy in the audience who paid for watching him perform.
If he was narcissistic, rather than competitive, he would care about how he looked, you are going in the opposite direction.
Naniwa is the best foreigner because he is perfectionistic, and he is fueled by passion. If the passion is not there, or nothing is at stake, he can't give a good performance, which by Naniwa standards is not just being happy to participate. His stride for being the best, is what got him there, and there are consequences, when he is not there, or this not being understood.
It blows my mind that he was in the business for such a long time and still does not understand the necessity of reputation of yourself and the people and companys you represent.
Naniwa is not like everyone else. Which is why he was better than everyone else at what he was doing. If you try to take this out of Naniwa, you have a shell that cannot perform, as he was fueled by passion.
He can't be a Thorzain-type of swede, because he is not. Just like IdrA couldn't be someone else. Nor should he have to be.
Caring about how you come across, is not what narcissistic entails. In fact it means the direct opposite, you don't care how you come across, because you are already sure that you are awesome. It means that you think you are always in the right, you are something special, etc. look here for more info. Just look at the symptoms, at least 5 out of the 7 can be directly applied.
I have to take this subpoint, since you want to go there, being narcissistic and NPD are two different things. One is a symptom which increases every year in numbers, because most youngsters today are taught they are special, when they are not, the internet is full of these people. The other is a mental illness, which often happens to people of great intelligence and skill, but often something in their surroundings(ie upbringing; abuse, blame, bullied, misunderstood) gave them a lot of failures or sense of failure. I would not be surprised if indeed Naniwa had NPD.
Back to your point. If Naniwa was narcissistic, rather than competitive, he would want to be admired, and he would do everything in his might to avoid all those controversies that do surround him, and being slated. I think we all can agree that it doesn't look good. And Naniwa knows that it doesn't, yet it often happens. Even if he didn't the whole world are up in arms to tell him he should feel ashamed - which is not good for the narcisstic mind(nor the NPD one, but it is an illness, that is not really controllable). If he was narcissistic, he would care about a positive public image. He does not. People, like you, want him to(I am not judging you).
That is why he thinks all the failure is never his fault its always others who did him wrong and he can do whatever the hell he wants.
When you are being misunderstood, you want to explain yourself. Few wants to understand him. Few can, as it is far removed from most. Also few people can become the best. I do think that the public makes it harder for Naniwa to say sorry, or explain himself, because they would very likely see this as an invitation and being in their right to attack him all the more, and expect him being different. Therefore he does not.
Also "Which is why he was better than everyone else at what he was doing." is just plain wrong, because koreans. Even the "best foreigner thing" is highly debatable imo.
Asia have a totally different way of nurturing youngsters, than West. They are taught they are just a cog in the wheel, since very young, should avoid controversies, and have a great work ethic, doing your absolut best at all times. When failing they seek inwards. Naniwa is much in the same way, but is placed in West, where drama is the fuel for most people on the internet. Few have the same desire to succeed as Naniwa, and with few understanding what makes him tick, and how to nurture his psyche is hard to succeed, when bullied for being unique. For Naniwa to come this far, if he has NPD is astounding, especially considering the amount of hate he receives. I do think it fueled him for quite a while to prove people wrong, not by changing personality, but by succeeding. In the end the hate from outside ate him up, and passion to show people diminished.
As time passes, people will miss this uniqueness, in a pond of grey matter, that they wanted Naniwa to be.
On March 21 2014 21:40 Scarx wrote: I really understand how frustrating it must have been to be forced to go to a tournament you really didnt want to participate in. But still I think it would have than been better to go off in a quiet way by just loosing to Polt instead of doing that sound proofing move.
Loosing in a quiet game, just for the sake of "dying slow", so that the community can adapt to it and get the arguments to hate on his skills? I actually think he did the right thing. Naniwa may be arrogant, but he has honor.
I don't think anyone would hate on him for losing, since people already knew he hadn't been practicing for a month or so. There was no need to make this half-assed attempt to create drama and forfeit after saying some bullshit about soundproofing. Acting like this is not honorable, it's just stupid and childish.
People pay to watch him play (indirectly, by watching ads during tournaments and buying stuff from his sponsors), so if he found himself in a situation where he couldn't avoid going to the tournament despite not wanting to, he could've at least manned up and played the series, for the sake of his fans and the audience in general. Stephano lost in his last series as a full time pro vs Lucifron (iirc), and used the opportunity to say goodbye to his fans and retire in a classy way. Shame Naniwa couldn't do the same.
On March 21 2014 22:41 DavoS wrote: I don't think the Alliance brand will stick around in sc2 after SortOf's contract expires. Alex made a good choice experimenting with signing naniwa without risking the EG brand image, but after what happened and how little Alliance really contributes to sc2, there's not much of a reason for it to stick around
Its hard to do anything in sc2 without 2 or so midtoptier koreans these days. The Nani-strophe at IEM may have been even pretty convenient for Alliance.
On March 21 2014 22:51 IntoTheheart wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
Does anyone else feel like he was just kidding when he said this?
Very likely it was a barb aimed at the perceived ineptitude and sloth of the foreign players.
Sweet espoorts drama. Why did Alliance for Naniwa to go if they knew what bad mood and shape he was in? Forfeiting before the tournament is much better than the ugly scene we got.
This game would be so much better without his toxic and immature behavior. He has no understanding of neither contract nor professionalism. Get this leech out of our community so we can get back to enjoying eSports without his temper tantrums.
So many unintelligent comments... I choose this one at random to make fun of, but it's certainly no more deserving than others.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that? Yeah hi guys, basically im amazing and will turn up when I feel like it, give you abuse and you'll pay me cause you suck if you don't.
On March 21 2014 23:02 Aveng3r wrote: "I can just make a comeback as the best foreigner whenever I want, Im naniwa hurr durr"
Hes so arrogant its unbeleivable. And I love how the pedastal he puts himself on is "the best foreigner". Not saying a whole hell of a lot.
Well he is kind of the best foreigner... Or one of the best if you don't like protoss or just are a fan of other players. I really hate Naniwa but you can't say he is not the best foreigner.
On March 21 2014 23:02 Aveng3r wrote: "I can just make a comeback as the best foreigner whenever I want, Im naniwa hurr durr"
Hes so arrogant its unbeleivable. And I love how the pedastal he puts himself on is "the best foreigner". Not saying a whole hell of a lot.
So first you attack him for being "so arrogant its unbelievable" and after that you attack him for admitting, that there are koreans, who are better than himself. You're contradicting yourself. In a one-liner.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
On March 21 2014 23:02 Aveng3r wrote: "I can just make a comeback as the best foreigner whenever I want, Im naniwa hurr durr"
Hes so arrogant its unbeleivable. And I love how the pedastal he puts himself on is "the best foreigner". Not saying a whole hell of a lot.
Well he is kind of the best foreigner... Or one of the best if you don't like protoss or just are a fan of other players. I really hate Naniwa but you can't say he is not the best foreigner.
Highly skilled people get fired all the time. You lose interest, don't show up for work, etc, you will get sent to the door.
On March 21 2014 21:44 Odecey wrote: I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
The question is whether he did something wrong by retiring before his contract was up. If the contract stipulates that the contractee cannot terminate it himself, then forcing this on Alliancce was wrong. If it did not however, then there is insufficient information to decide whether he was in the wrong on this point. We don't know when/how Naniwa informed his team that he was no longer playing. If he did this when he stopped, the situation at IEM should never have occured: Alliance should merely have released him then, when he expressed he had no intention to keep playing.
Naniwa is completely right when points out that he was not required to transfer his spot at IEM, after it became clear to him that he did not want to compete. Such a decision is up to the event organizer, who determines the criteria for competing, who according to Naniwa were informed that he did not wish to participate. When they pressured him into going, they set themselves up for this to happen.
I also want to address the hate mongering that has surrounded Naniwa ever since he entered the scene: It's pathetic how the community at large have assigned him as a punchingbag because of his demeanor, frankness, and impulsiveness. These personality traits do not give you a licence to bully a person. By doing so, you're starting a vicious cycle where he will respond spontaneusly and emotionally, which will set him up for further abuse. All these comments of "I hate him" "Has he been diagnosed yet?" "What a loser." are frankly cruel, and ironically go way beyond any wrongdoing he may have committed. The willingness of every forumgoer and his dog to jump on every situation he handles suboptimally, with the contempt of someone witnessing a warcrime, is a cyber assault of negativity, and you wonder why he calls this community disgusting? The hypocracy is so ripe you can taste it.
I'm glad he's leaving. He will be better off out of the microscope people have put him under, free to be himself without all this judgement.
This will probably be a good time for me to leave aswell, in the sense that I won't be posting here ever again. Unfortunately, it still seems like the best place to find tournament results, schedules, etc, so I guess I'll still be using that.
Don't ever think this place is above the standards of the internet at large: It's not.
Well put. Sadly it will most likely not affect many here, because that would require admitting something uncomfortable. Better to sweep it under the rug and pretend the general mentality here is righteous.
I hope to see him return before long. There is no reason to make him into a villain, sure what he did was unprofessional, but he didn't hurt anyone else, only himself. Best of luck Nani!
Edit - Odecey said it well, the other group this impacted was his team and we don't have the information to judge correctly in that situation.
You know, I really don't mind people lashing out and doing zany shit. That's a part of life we all make mistakes, but if you don't want to learn from them or at least attempt to improve you deserve the shit coming your way. That best personifies our Naniwer.
On March 21 2014 22:22 Squat wrote: "Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
HuK and Idra won tournaments with koreans in them. Jinro is a two time GSL semi-finalist and MLG Grand Final champion. I think, putting them into the same tier with Stephano and Naniwa (and MaNa and Nerchio and ThorZaIN) is fine. Putting Scarlett in there is wrong though.
On March 21 2014 23:02 Aveng3r wrote: "I can just make a comeback as the best foreigner whenever I want, Im naniwa hurr durr"
Hes so arrogant its unbeleivable. And I love how the pedastal he puts himself on is "the best foreigner". Not saying a whole hell of a lot.
So first you attack him for being "so arrogant its unbelievable" and after that you attack him for admitting, that there are koreans, who are better than himself. You're contradicting yourself. In a one-liner.
Thanks for taking the time to point that out to me, Ile be more careful when insulting naniwa in the future
I can both understand a) Naniwa's acting, not wanting to go there, and be upset when he heard the commentators himself and b) the decision of his team as this is very bad representation for Alliance.
It's just a shitty situation, but whatever. This discussion went on for too long. He should do what he likes and then that's good. And let's be honest: Even when 100% in shape, there is no doubt that even the best foreigner had no shot at the 100k.
Meh, I don't see how he could come back in two weeks of practice but it really is a shame that they would not let him forfeit.
I understand that he earned the spot, I was there and watched him played and cheered for him as loud as anyone. However, you can't simultaneously say that you don't care and then grandstand about how no one else could have qualified... there's always a next in line and in this case the Open Bracket at the tournament itself was probably full of higher quality play than IEM (hell Hyun was right there, playing better than ever!).
So yeah, Naniwa's inflated sense of self is stupid. At least Stephano went out with grace and honesty (he wasn't excited about the game anymore, and other players had gone beyond him), Naniwa is trying to have it both ways by claiming to be the best but not putting out the quality or the time anymore.
Love the memories he has given me, but good riddance to the player he is today.
On March 21 2014 23:02 Aveng3r wrote: "I can just make a comeback as the best foreigner whenever I want, Im naniwa hurr durr"
Hes so arrogant its unbeleivable. And I love how the pedastal he puts himself on is "the best foreigner". Not saying a whole hell of a lot.
So first you attack him for being "so arrogant its unbelievable" and after that you attack him for admitting, that there are koreans, who are better than himself. You're contradicting yourself. In a one-liner.
Thanks for taking the time to point that out to me, Ile be more careful when insulting naniwa in the future
^what are you, just in here to argue with people?
My pleasure.
This is a discussion Forum. Arguing with people is kinda it's purpose. Arguing with people shows them a second perspective and maybe lets them reevaluate their standing point.
The question is: Why are the people in here who just write insults to Naniwa? Because they are not generating anything new.
Naniwa stopped playing the game while he still had a contract going. Naniwa was unwilling to fulfill his contractual obligations, so they had to push him to play in the tournament. Naniwa publicly announced he's quitting SC2. Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers and fans and damaged his own reputation and that of his team and sponsors.
Of course Alliance realeases him. What's there to discuss?
On March 21 2014 22:22 Squat wrote: "Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
HuK and Idra won tournaments with koreans in them. Jinro is a two time GSL semi-finalist and MLG Grand Final champion. I think, putting them into the same tier with Stephano and Naniwa (and MaNa and Nerchio and ThorZaIN) is fine. Putting Scarlett in there is wrong though.
Yeah you can say that Huk, Idra, Jinro, Mana, Nerchio and Thorzain were among the best foreigners, but Naniwa and Stephano are a tier above in my opinion. And to be honest I don't think Jinro's achievements have that much weight considering the players who attended the MLG he won. As for his GSL semi finals, sure that's cool, but the game was in it's very early stages and after that he dropped off quite rapidly.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa stopped playing the game while he still had a contract going. Naniwa was unwilling to fulfill his contractual obligations, so they had to push him to play in the tournament. Naniwa publicly announced he's quitting SC2. Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers and fans and damaged his own reputation and that of his team and sponsors.
Of course Alliance realeases him. What's there to discuss?
Naniwa and the public. I do not think anyone are frustrated with EG.eus decision to release him from contract.
naniwa is irresponsible and no work ethics... its not your choice to go or not if your sponsored... he shouldn't join a sponsored team if he doesn't want to be bossed... he should learn his place...
i do acknowledge your skills as progammer but you smell the same trash as savior...
as for your sound proof complain, i do strongly agree on you though...
This kid is so bitter and isn't even relevant to the scene anymore. It's obvious that he was released and I hope no professional team ever picks him up again. He's so immature and unprofessional. Everyone else in the world quietly announces their retirement or does it in a positive light except for this upset child.
On March 21 2014 22:22 Squat wrote: "Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
HuK and Idra won tournaments with koreans in them. Jinro is a two time GSL semi-finalist and MLG Grand Final champion. I think, putting them into the same tier with Stephano and Naniwa (and MaNa and Nerchio and ThorZaIN) is fine. Putting Scarlett in there is wrong though.
Yeah you can say that Huk, Idra, Jinro, Mana, Nerchio and Thorzain were among the best foreigners, but Naniwa and Stephano are a tier above in my opinion. And to be honest I don't think Jinro's achievements have that much weight considering the players who attended the MLG he won. As for his GSL semi finals, sure that's cool, but the game was in it's very early stages and after that he dropped off quite rapidly.
A valid opinion, I´m a bit unsure about it as well, since there are different things, you have to wage against eachother. Going purely by big tourney wins, HuK has an edge against Naniwa, if you go by earnings, Naniwa is hugely ahead against him. Jinro is also a weird case, since he has only one big tourney win and 27k earnings, but GSL is so big, that I feel, he does'nt get enough credit just by quantitative factors I'd say, if I take a while longer my ranking would probably look like this:
On March 21 2014 23:02 Aveng3r wrote: "I can just make a comeback as the best foreigner whenever I want, Im naniwa hurr durr"
Hes so arrogant its unbeleivable. And I love how the pedastal he puts himself on is "the best foreigner". Not saying a whole hell of a lot.
Well he is kind of the best foreigner... Or one of the best if you don't like protoss or just are a fan of other players. I really hate Naniwa but you can't say he is not the best foreigner.
Highly skilled people get fired all the time. You lose interest, don't show up for work, etc, you will get sent to the door.
On March 21 2014 22:22 Squat wrote: "Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
HuK and Idra won tournaments with koreans in them. Jinro is a two time GSL semi-finalist and MLG Grand Final champion. I think, putting them into the same tier with Stephano and Naniwa (and MaNa and Nerchio and ThorZaIN) is fine. Putting Scarlett in there is wrong though.
Yeah you can say that Huk, Idra, Jinro, Mana, Nerchio and Thorzain were among the best foreigners, but Naniwa and Stephano are a tier above in my opinion. And to be honest I don't think Jinro's achievements have that much weight considering the players who attended the MLG he won. As for his GSL semi finals, sure that's cool, but the game was in it's very early stages and after that he dropped off quite rapidly.
A valid opinion, I´m a bit unsure about it as well, since there are different things, you have to wage against eachother. Going purely by big tourney wins, HuK has an edge against Naniwa, if you go by earnings, Naniwa is hugely ahead against him. Jinro is also a weird case, since he has only one big tourney win and 27k earnings, but GSL is so big, that I feel, he does'nt get enough credit just by quantitative factors I'd say, if I take a while longer my ranking would probably look like this:
Yeah I can definitely agree with that. Comparing players is quite hard, like you said, what metrics are we supposed to use? earnings, tournament wins, etc...But it's fair to say that Stephano is tier 1, and then for tier 2 it gets more complicated, but I would still put Naniwa as head of tier 2.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
This is absolutely bullshit, if forfeiting is a huge affront, then why do they give the right to do so to the players ?
Jeez
Maybe Naniwa became very ill, or an emergency occurred before the game started. It's not hard to think of excusable uses for a forfeit. Disinterest in a game that you're being paid to play in a binding contract doesn't lend itself to forfeiture. It's an immature move.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
Dont be dumb. We were ready to replace Taeja two days earlier because he thought his hands may be too bad to play. We literally replaced the best CS:GO analyst in the world ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT. We're really really good at improvising and making shit work - if a player doesn't want to play, it's ok. We just replace him. Jarett Cale wasn't involved in the event until we fired Thorin....it was all improvised and put together in the final hours to make the event work...it was a miracle that he was on site. Shit happens. We deal with it. If a player doesn't want to play we can and will replace him with someone who does.
Watch this magic: Naniwa: "I dont want to play" ESL: "Jaedong want a direct invite to fix the problem?" Jaedong: "Yes"
Tada. There's no ''affront''. This isn't kespa. We just want to make make cool shit so people can enjoy it.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
Dont be dumb. We were ready to replace Taeja two days earlier because he thought his hands may be too bad to play. We literally replaced the best CS:GO analyst in the world ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT. We're really really good at improvising and making shit work - if a player doesn't want to play, it's ok. We just replace him. Jarett Cale wasn't involved in the event until we fired Thorin....it was all improvised and put together in the final hours to make the event work...it was a miracle that he was on site. Shit happens. We deal with it. If a player doesn't want to play we can and will replace him with someone who does.
Watch this magic: Naniwa: "I dont want to play" ESL: "Jaedong want a direct invite to fix the problem?" Jaedong: "Yes"
Tada. There's no ''affront''. This isn't kespa. We just want to make make cool shit so people can enjoy it.
On March 21 2014 21:44 Odecey wrote: I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
The question is whether he did something wrong by retiring before his contract was up. If the contract stipulates that the contractee cannot terminate it himself, then forcing this on Alliancce was wrong. If it did not however, then there is insufficient information to decide whether he was in the wrong on this point. We don't know when/how Naniwa informed his team that he was no longer playing. If he did this when he stopped, the situation at IEM should never have occured: Alliance should merely have released him then, when he expressed he had no intention to keep playing.
Naniwa is completely right when points out that he was not required to transfer his spot at IEM, after it became clear to him that he did not want to compete. Such a decision is up to the event organizer, who determines the criteria for competing, who according to Naniwa were informed that he did not wish to participate. When they pressured him into going, they set themselves up for this to happen.
I also want to address the hate mongering that has surrounded Naniwa ever since he entered the scene: It's pathetic how the community at large have assigned him as a punchingbag because of his demeanor, frankness, and impulsiveness. These personality traits do not give you a licence to bully a person. By doing so, you're starting a vicious cycle where he will respond spontaneusly and emotionally, which will set him up for further abuse. All these comments of "I hate him" "Has he been diagnosed yet?" "What a loser." are frankly cruel, and ironically go way beyond any wrongdoing he may have committed. The willingness of every forumgoer and his dog to jump on every situation he handles suboptimally, with the contempt of someone witnessing a warcrime, is a cyber assault of negativity, and you wonder why he calls this community disgusting? The hypocracy is so ripe you can taste it.
I'm glad he's leaving. He will be better off out of the microscope people have put him under, free to be himself without all this judgement.
This will probably be a good time for me to leave aswell, in the sense that I won't be posting here ever again. Unfortunately, it still seems like the best place to find tournament results, schedules, etc, so I guess I'll still be using that.
Don't ever think this place is above the standards of the internet at large: It's not.
I concur that none of the technicalities can be criticized. Naniwa was free to forfeit, the legalese is still sketchy since we're only hearing Naniwa's side, and if he was pressured into playing, then he is not entirely at fault.
Yes, the community does at times (probably every time; I wasn't here at Naniwa's professional birth) dog Naniwa, for right or wrong. Yet, the reversal of vice is also true: Naniwa's poor demeanor meant that he incited, if not invited, such hatemongering.
I've never viewed Naniwa highly or lowly; he was a well established Protoss player, who at times could rival even Korean pros in their prime. He has provided as many crisp and enjoyable games as he had scrappy and sloppy games; he would as often mess up his wall as often as he would utterly crush his opponents in a wall of gateway units. He's had his slumps and he's had his strides, and his record shows an illustrious history of high-end finishes in numerous well-renowned tournaments.
Hell, I didn't even think Naniwa was very BM. I'd thought it was some run-of-the-mill banter, much like how anyone else not named Idra would often rib at their opponents. Heck, I thought Ryung's "IMBA" moment was probably a bigger splash, though then again I suppose I don't follow Naniwa with a hawk's eye. We're not omniscient creatures, right?
But after IEM, it'd be folly not to criticize Naniwa for what he did. Not for the technicalities of the situation, which, as I have stated above, were perfectly legit. But it does call his professionalism into question. Using the chat in-game is a general taboo (and I mean very general, as some things such as congratulations often get a pass), not to mention, if I'm not mistaken, against some WCS protocol. Naniwa's not the first person to experience soundproofing issues; games prior have had similar issues, including, apparently, one with Naniwa himself being a participant. Yet surely there were other ways of expressing that sentiment than in chat; most players have made it known post-game, and he himself could have (and did) make it known to the officials immediately after the match.
Furthermore, he has followed up, as well as primed, the incident with numerous comments, including the one posted here, condemning the community or some such. Yes, TeamLiquid is not immune to Internet pitchforking, shocking, isn't it? And yet, very rarely does the community have so many barbs for one individual. There's no spearing of Innovation, of Maru, of Life, of Soulkey, of Mvp, of Taeja, of Creator, of Rain, of Stephano, of Jaedong, of Zest, of Thorzain, of Scarlett, of Grubby... Yes, they get a lashing every now and again, maybe for playing an agonizing game (Stephano's specialty and notoriety), for some controversial matter (Scarlett notably), for being (in)consistent (sOs comes to mind).
And yet, none of them have gained as much notoriety as Naniwa. Some people like Maru's aggressive playstyle, others don't, so what? Sometimes MC jabs another player before the match, shots fired, I guess? DeMuslim forfeited Shoutcraft America? He better have a good explanation for this.
Only Idra has incited about as much dislike, and even he managed to hang back as a commentator for a while, and his exit was nowhere as explosive as Naniwa's. So it does beg the question: why?
And Naniwa is the answer. His demeanor is the most glaring aspect that has made this series of events transpire. And how he handled IEM was a message to the masses, a message to Alliance, a message to IEM. A world of alternatives, and that was how he decided to leave the game; a world of fire might be overkill, but criticism he is not free of.
So that he leaves the game? Absolutely fine. Is the community a jerk sometimes? More often than not. Will time heal all wounds? A question only time can answer. But he did burn bridges with his exit, undeniably. Say what you will about his gaming skills and history, but if he returns, the burden of coming back is his to bear and his only.
I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you here, but I simply implore, that you needn't leave merely because of a sour note in the community. Every game and every show and every aspect of society will have that brown note, but it's merely a tiny smudge in the grand scheme.
I suppose the TL;DR is:
It's not the technicalities that Naniwa should be criticized for, it's his PR management of the situation.
Yes, the community is not free of hatemongering, it spikes here and there and more often than not, but why is Naniwa the select few of such extreme tactics?
See it from both sides; don't be a hater, but don't be a kiss-ass, either.
I find it utterly unbelievable that people are trying to defend his actions with "they forced him to go".
No...they...didn't.
If Naniwa had put his foot down and said "no, I'm not going" there is no way they could have forced him to go short of tying his hands and feet together and strapped him into a plane before physically dragging him to the studio and tying him to the chair in the booth. Which I'm pretty sure they didn't do.
What they COULD do is say they'll sack him if he didn't go. Or to try to appeal to his sense of reason or loyalty to the team or whatever. Or to warn that fines will be applied to his salary if he didn't. Those things are NOT the same as forcing him to go. If nothing else he could have quit and it'd have been pretty hard for them to touch him at all.
So the simplest assumption is that they warned him that he'd be punished (likely financially) if he didn't go. And consequently he went (in hope of still getting paid? I don't know, speculating, there has to be SOME reason for him to have gone given that he clearly didn't want to be there).
Nobody forced him to get on the plane to go there. Nobody forced him to the studio. And certainly nobody forced him into the booth because I certainly didn't see someone drag him in there and strap him to the chair. He chose all of those things. He then also chose to act as he did. Therefore the responsibility for what happened falls entirely on his own head.
He could have quit beforehand. He didn't. Instead he chose to go. And that choice came with consequent responsibilities that he didn't live up to.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa stopped playing the game while he still had a contract going. Naniwa was unwilling to fulfill his contractual obligations, so they had to push him to play in the tournament. Naniwa publicly announced he's quitting SC2. Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers and fans and damaged his own reputation and that of his team and sponsors.
Of course Alliance releases him. What's there to discuss?
Yep, you try this with any other job and you'll be fired. Unprofessional and childish behavior.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa stopped playing the game while he still had a contract going. Naniwa was unwilling to fulfill his contractual obligations, so they had to push him to play in the tournament. Naniwa publicly announced he's quitting SC2. Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers and fans and damaged his own reputation and that of his team and sponsors.
Of course Alliance releases him. What's there to discuss?
Yep, you try this with any other job and you'll be fired. Unprofessional and childish behavior.
Exactly. What some people here dont get (and amongst them obviously, Naniwa), is that it's a JOB. You have to be a professional, not an arrogant child.
Ugh just hate seeing this as a naniwa fan... While I can understand what he's talking about, at the end of the day he was just being unprofessional. Simple as that. As a pro player, he should've at least played out a series, even if it was all 4gates, rather than just forfeit with that soundproofing bullshit.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa stopped playing the game while he still had a contract going. Naniwa was unwilling to fulfill his contractual obligations, so they had to push him to play in the tournament. Naniwa publicly announced he's quitting SC2. Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers and fans and damaged his own reputation and that of his team and sponsors.
Of course Alliance releases him. What's there to discuss?
Yep, you try this with any other job and you'll be fired. Unprofessional and childish behavior.
Exactly. What some people here dont get (and amongst them obviously, Naniwa), is that it's a JOB. You have to be a professional, not an arrogant child.
aha... and if your contract says you do NOT have to be in every tournament? I am sure players are allowed to cancel one or two (of ~20) tournaments yearly for whatever reason. edit: as we can see nani's behavior to A was (very) professional except on the tournament.
Im kinda glad hes leaving SC2 now....he used to be one of the ppl I would follow because of how much work he put into the game... but now that he doesnt play his attitude doesnt help him at all...oh well good luck to him in whatever he does.
Seeing that Thorin now steps in with some angry tweets about EG/Alliance, it`s fair to predict that there will be a lot of dirty laundry being washed today.
On March 21 2014 16:11 -HuShang- wrote: Maybe, maybe not, but it sure is a convenient excuse to kick him off if he isn't playing starcraft 2 anymore. Food for thought ;D
Power overwhelming. Anyway, on a more serious note. I understand it was a "sponsor" thing, and if there was a contract, but I guess in the end, you can't really force someone to do something they don't want.
I wouldn't really mind his raging behaviour, except he enjoys dragging down his opponent with defamatory comments while he ragequits. For instance, this pretty much sums up how the "soundproofing" was just some farcical reason Naniwa cooked up in order to "justify" him leaving the tournament. This way, he also showed zero respect to Polt, attributing Polt's win to soundproofing issues. I can't respect Naniwa for that.
Good luck, but also good riddance. If you guys have a fetish for controversial/outright offensive people like this, by all means.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
It's not about how much you win, it's about who you win against. Stephano is the most successful foreigner by far, but I believe the level of opponents he faced cannot be favourably compared to what Scarlett and Nani faced in terms of raw ability. As for Jinro and HuK, they basically played and won when the game was in its infancy. No disrespect to them or their accomplishments, they are impressive certainly, but the level of play in the early WoL GSLs and MLGs is another world compared to today.
In the end, accomplishments are the only thing we can actually measure, but I also think we can get a fairly good idea about relative skill levels as well. Flash and Nada are the most successful players ever, with 6 starleague titles each. On paper, they are even, but I think most people would recognise that Flash played in an environment where the level of competition was far more fierce.
On March 21 2014 21:44 Odecey wrote: I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
The question is whether he did something wrong by retiring before his contract was up. If the contract stipulates that the contractee cannot terminate it himself, then forcing this on Alliancce was wrong. If it did not however, then there is insufficient information to decide whether he was in the wrong on this point. We don't know when/how Naniwa informed his team that he was no longer playing. If he did this when he stopped, the situation at IEM should never have occured: Alliance should merely have released him then, when he expressed he had no intention to keep playing.
Naniwa is completely right when points out that he was not required to transfer his spot at IEM, after it became clear to him that he did not want to compete. Such a decision is up to the event organizer, who determines the criteria for competing, who according to Naniwa were informed that he did not wish to participate. When they pressured him into going, they set themselves up for this to happen.
I also want to address the hate mongering that has surrounded Naniwa ever since he entered the scene: It's pathetic how the community at large have assigned him as a punchingbag because of his demeanor, frankness, and impulsiveness. These personality traits do not give you a licence to bully a person. By doing so, you're starting a vicious cycle where he will respond spontaneusly and emotionally, which will set him up for further abuse. All these comments of "I hate him" "Has he been diagnosed yet?" "What a loser." are frankly cruel, and ironically go way beyond any wrongdoing he may have committed. The willingness of every forumgoer and his dog to jump on every situation he handles suboptimally, with the contempt of someone witnessing a warcrime, is a cyber assault of negativity, and you wonder why he calls this community disgusting? The hypocracy is so ripe you can taste it.
I'm glad he's leaving. He will be better off out of the microscope people have put him under, free to be himself without all this judgement.
This will probably be a good time for me to leave aswell, in the sense that I won't be posting here ever again. Unfortunately, it still seems like the best place to find tournament results, schedules, etc, so I guess I'll still be using that.
Don't ever think this place is above the standards of the internet at large: It's not.
I concur that none of the technicalities can be criticized. Naniwa was free to forfeit, the legalese is still sketchy since we're only hearing Naniwa's side, and if he was pressured into playing, then he is not entirely at fault.
Yes, the community does at times (probably every time; I wasn't here at Naniwa's professional birth) dog Naniwa, for right or wrong. Yet, the reversal of vice is also true: Naniwa's poor demeanor meant that he incited, if not invited, such hatemongering.
I've never viewed Naniwa highly or lowly; he was a well established Protoss player, who at times could rival even Korean pros in their prime. He has provided as many crisp and enjoyable games as he had scrappy and sloppy games; he would as often mess up his wall as often as he would utterly crush his opponents in a wall of gateway units. He's had his slumps and he's had his strides, and his record shows an illustrious history of high-end finishes in numerous well-renowned tournaments.
Hell, I didn't even think Naniwa was very BM. I'd thought it was some run-of-the-mill banter, much like how anyone else not named Idra would often rib at their opponents. Heck, I thought Ryung's "IMBA" moment was probably a bigger splash, though then again I suppose I don't follow Naniwa with a hawk's eye. We're not omniscient creatures, right?
But after IEM, it'd be folly not to criticize Naniwa for what he did. Not for the technicalities of the situation, which, as I have stated above, were perfectly legit. But it does call his professionalism into question. Using the chat in-game is a general taboo (and I mean very general, as some things such as congratulations often get a pass), not to mention, if I'm not mistaken, against some WCS protocol. Naniwa's not the first person to experience soundproofing issues; games prior have had similar issues, including, apparently, one with Naniwa himself being a participant. Yet surely there were other ways of expressing that sentiment than in chat; most players have made it known post-game, and he himself could have (and did) make it known to the officials immediately after the match.
Furthermore, he has followed up, as well as primed, the incident with numerous comments, including the one posted here, condemning the community or some such. Yes, TeamLiquid is not immune to Internet pitchforking, shocking, isn't it? And yet, very rarely does the community have so many barbs for one individual. There's no spearing of Innovation, of Maru, of Life, of Soulkey, of Mvp, of Taeja, of Creator, of Rain, of Stephano, of Jaedong, of Zest, of Thorzain, of Scarlett, of Grubby... Yes, they get a lashing every now and again, maybe for playing an agonizing game (Stephano's specialty and notoriety), for some controversial matter (Scarlett notably), for being (in)consistent (sOs comes to mind).
And yet, none of them have gained as much notoriety as Naniwa. Some people like Maru's aggressive playstyle, others don't, so what? Sometimes MC jabs another player before the match, shots fired, I guess? DeMuslim forfeited Shoutcraft America? He better have a good explanation for this.
Only Idra has incited about as much dislike, and even he managed to hang back as a commentator for a while, and his exit was nowhere as explosive as Naniwa's. So it does beg the question: why?
And Naniwa is the answer. His demeanor is the most glaring aspect that has made this series of events transpire. And how he handled IEM was a message to the masses, a message to Alliance, a message to IEM. A world of alternatives, and that was how he decided to leave the game; a world of fire might be overkill, but criticism he is not free of.
So that he leaves the game? Absolutely fine. Is the community a jerk sometimes? More often than not. Will time heal all wounds? A question only time can answer. But he did burn bridges with his exit, undeniably. Say what you will about his gaming skills and history, but if he returns, the burden of coming back is his to bear and his only.
I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you here, but I simply implore, that you needn't leave merely because of a sour note in the community. Every game and every show and every aspect of society will have that brown note, but it's merely a tiny smudge in the grand scheme.
I suppose the TL;DR is:
It's not the technicalities that Naniwa should be criticized for, it's his PR management of the situation.
Yes, the community is not free of hatemongering, it spikes here and there and more often than not, but why is Naniwa the select few of such extreme tactics?
See it from both sides; don't be a hater, but don't be a kiss-ass, either.
Agreed: don't be a hater, but don't be a kiss-ass, either.
The problem is that most people in this community blame only Naniwa for his bad reputation and they see everything through this biased lens.
Naniwa is not a saint, we all know it, but this community does not consist of saints neither, and we should realize it.
On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote: gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude.
Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting.
Bravo.
You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life, otherwise the person who is going to need luck in life will be you.
lol. I'm not shitting on anyone. Naniwa just proved to me, that he's is completely unwilling to see any other side than his own side (which happend multiple times in the past) and I was just pointing out that his sort of attitude towards his employer etc. will not work out for him anywhere. Obviously he does not owe me anything, and he does not have to prove anything to me specifically, but I'm still free to form my opinion on his actions. And his actions show a pitiful lack of comprehension of the way things work when you're paid to something on a professional level.
On March 22 2014 00:08 -Celestial- wrote:So the simplest assumption is that they warned him that he'd be punished (likely financially) if he didn't go. And consequently he went (in hope of still getting paid? I don't know, speculating, there has to be SOME reason for him to have gone given that he clearly didn't want to be there).
Since we're speculating: what if the consequences weren't just "not getting paid" but also that he had to pay a substantial fine to the team? What if it said was basically: if you break this contract, you bind yourself to pay a fine of $100000. You still think he was "free to set his foot down"? Sometimes strings and ropes are invisible. And just as it was within the team's legal rights to push the contract to its limits, it was Nani's right to legally forfeit once he was on site. I doubt he had planned to forfeit, but the soundproof thing was the last drop that pushed him over the edge to do it anyway. In this theoretical scenario, he answered his team with the same coin. He pushed his legal rights.
I'm not saying the above is true, but since people here tend to speculate and then turn their own theories and assumptions into truth, I thought I would show an alternative theory.
On March 21 2014 21:40 Scarx wrote: I really understand how frustrating it must have been to be forced to go to a tournament you really didnt want to participate in. But still I think it would have than been better to go off in a quiet way by just loosing to Polt instead of doing that sound proofing move.
Loosing in a quiet game, just for the sake of "dying slow", so that the community can adapt to it and get the arguments to hate on his skills? I actually think he did the right thing. Naniwa may be arrogant, but he has honor.
This is an interesting point of view. My question to you would be "what's more honorable?" in this case.
Lets take a look at it honestly here. There was nothing that Alliance could do to force him to play if he didn't want to. He was already not playing the game. The only thing they could do would be to fire him when he had already told them that he was looking to quit, or had quit or whatever. So unless Alliance has some sort of blackmail or... I don't know, back pay that they have a clause they don't have to pay in certain cases, then I can't see anything at all that would be something Naniwa would fear. From the information I have (which is honestly not much) it would be akin to my company threatening to no longer pay me in the future if I decided I wanted to come to work and leave without finishing the job.
Now assuming the reason Naniwa didn't want to continue the event was the complaint over the lack of efficient soundproofing, I would say that if he was not contractually obligated to represent his sponsors, then absolutely that could be an honorable thing to do. He would be taking a stand against something that he thought was an injustice and hey, whatever I could get behind that.
The definition of honor, from merriam webster dictionary says:
: respect that is given to someone who is admired
: good reputation : good quality or character as judged by other people
: high moral standards of behavior
The first doesn't really apply in this case, he's not honoring anyone.
Does he have a good reputation from this action? Is he judged positively by others? I would say no. If this were one of the older civilizations where honor was a life or death thing that you upheld, based on the opinion of the vocal masses he'd have plunged a knife into his gut at this point.
This last point I'd agree with to an extent. He has high moral standards in that the conditions he was provided were not adequate and he wanted them adjusted. I can dig that, but I think that I can only do so taking this one action in a vacuum. He has clearly not shown to have these high standards in the past, and to have honor is to have a code that you uphold in all cases. You can't be an honorable person when it fits you and say that you have honor.
However, we also know that he was there representing his team (when it was ultimately his choice to go). He could have (honorably) chosen to not go and take whatever consequences the team had threatened him with. This would have not only shown a respect for his team, but also for the fans of the sport and the venue itself. When you are doing something that pays your salary, you don't have to like it but in my point of view you should have a respect for it, and to not show this respect is not honorable. His actions have negatively impacted the brand he was there representing. I don't think this will actually affect sales of Monster or Razer or any of that, but it needlessly robbed the team of potential exposure.
It's all subjective, I'd never say that my personal honor code... well exists, but I do try and stick to a set of values that I find to be reasonable. However from my personal beliefs I would say Naniwa has very little honor. Of course we're all three from very different societies with very different histories and very different upbringings, so I can understand the difference of opinion.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
It's not about how much you win, it's about who you win against. Stephano is the most successful foreigner by far, but I believe the level of opponents he faced cannot be favourably compared to what Scarlett and Nani faced in terms of raw ability. As for Jinro and HuK, they basically played and won when the game was in its infancy. No disrespect to them or their accomplishments, they are impressive certainly, but the level of play in the early WoL GSLs and MLGs is another world compared to today.
In the end, accomplishments are the only thing we can actually measure, but I also think we can get a fairly good idea about relative skill levels as well. Flash and Nada are the most successful players ever, with 6 starleague titles each. On paper, they are even, but I think most people would recognise that Flash played in an environment where the level of competition was far more fierce.
The reason Stephano is the best foreigner and it's not even close is, to put it in somewhat silly fashion, that he's the only foreigner who truly dominated his kin. Naniwa has always had the ability to beat top Koreans, but it's also never been surprising to see him get knocked out by players without any particularly impressive achievements. People tend to respect the ability to beat top competition more than anything else and in that category I'd say Stephano only has a slight edge, but not losing to lesser players is just as important an element of dominance.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
This is absolutely bullshit, if forfeiting is a huge affront, then why do they give the right to do so to the players ?
Jeez
how can people be so delusional? I guess most of these comments come from 14 year olds who have never worked for a second in their lives. if you don't do your job, you're fired. if you get money to do something, and you don't do it, you get fired. you try to behave like naniwa does in the real world and see where it takes you. he probably got a better salary than highly educated american people, he signed a contract that obligated him to things and to represent the company well. he didn't do it, he broke the contract, he doesn't get the opportunity to earn thousands of dollars anymore. i wouldn't even call it a punishment, it's just a boon that the didn't deserve in the first place and got taken away after he confirmed this for the 6th time.
and btw everyone seems to forget how shadily naniwa managed that time he beat nestea 2-1 in mlg. he instantly quit the match after his cheese wouldn't work and forced a rematch by lying about spawn positions.
conclusion: what he says can't be taken seriously at all. the soundproofing issue is just one of his lies.
he thinks its "ironic" that he was fired for refusing to do his job? i'm hoping that's an issue of not knowing what "ironic" means, otherwise...good luck
On March 22 2014 00:26 sitromit wrote: He says he no longer wants to play the game he was being paid to play, so why should they keep him, regardless of what happened at IEM?
I also hope that is the reason why they let him go, not due to their own poor judgment to send him there.
On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote: gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude.
Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting.
Bravo.
You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life, otherwise the person who is going to need luck in life will be you.
lol. I'm not shitting on anyone. Naniwa just proved to me, that he's is completely unwilling to see any other side than his own side (which happend multiple times in the past) and I was just pointing out that his sort of attitude towards his employer etc. will not work out for him anywhere. Obviously he does not owe me anything, and he does not have to prove anything to me specifically, but I'm still free to form my opinion on his actions. And his actions show a pitiful lack of comprehension of the way things work when you're paid to something on a professional level.
Most of the community feel the same way. The vocal minority is keeping the thread going. pms has a post on majority of the pages on this thread and others dealing with Naniwa's forfeit, I wouldn't take a second look at it.
Bottom line is, Naniwa's behavior wouldn't be praised in any professional setting. If he was a doctor, his license to practice would be taken away. If he was an accountant, he would've been canned and most likely never get an accounting job again. I guess McDonalds is always an option...
On March 22 2014 00:08 -Celestial- wrote:So the simplest assumption is that they warned him that he'd be punished (likely financially) if he didn't go. And consequently he went (in hope of still getting paid? I don't know, speculating, there has to be SOME reason for him to have gone given that he clearly didn't want to be there).
Since we're speculating: what if the consequences weren't just "not getting paid" but also that he had to pay a substantial fine to the team? What if it said was basically: if you break this contract, you bind yourself to pay a fine of $100000. You still think he was "free to set his foot down"? Sometimes strings and ropes are invisible. And just as it was within the team's legal rights to push the contract to its limits, it was Nani's right to legally forfeit once he was on site. I doubt he had planned to forfeit, but the soundproof thing was the last drop that pushed him over the edge to do it anyway. In this theoretical scenario, he answered his team with the same coin. He pushed his legal rights.
I'm not saying the above is true, but since people here tend to speculate and then turn their own theories and assumptions into truth, I thought I would show an alternative theory.
Except he probably did go in intending to forfeit, the soundproofing wasn't an issue for anyone else and other players were reportedly laughing at him. I used to give Nani the benefit of the doubt when he threw his toys out of the pram, then when it kept happening..... I finally realised Nani is just a petulant child and needs to grow up.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
It's not about how much you win, it's about who you win against. Stephano is the most successful foreigner by far, but I believe the level of opponents he faced cannot be favourably compared to what Scarlett and Nani faced in terms of raw ability. As for Jinro and HuK, they basically played and won when the game was in its infancy. No disrespect to them or their accomplishments, they are impressive certainly, but the level of play in the early WoL GSLs and MLGs is another world compared to today.
In the end, accomplishments are the only thing we can actually measure, but I also think we can get a fairly good idea about relative skill levels as well. Flash and Nada are the most successful players ever, with 6 starleague titles each. On paper, they are even, but I think most people would recognise that Flash played in an environment where the level of competition was far more fierce.
The reason Stephano is the best foreigner and it's not even close is, to put it in somewhat silly fashion, that he's the only foreigner who truly dominated his kin. Naniwa has always had the ability to beat top Koreans, but it's also never been surprising to see him get knocked out by players without any particularly impressive achievements. People tend to respect the ability to beat top competition more than anything else and in that category I'd say Stephano only has a slight edge, but not losing to lesser players is just as important an element of dominance.
Stephano was indeed very consistent, he almost never lost to people he was supposed to beat. His style and gamesense made him incredibly difficult to take out unless you could just straight up outplay him.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
It's not about how much you win, it's about who you win against. Stephano is the most successful foreigner by far, but I believe the level of opponents he faced cannot be favourably compared to what Scarlett and Nani faced in terms of raw ability. As for Jinro and HuK, they basically played and won when the game was in its infancy. No disrespect to them or their accomplishments, they are impressive certainly, but the level of play in the early WoL GSLs and MLGs is another world compared to today.
In the end, accomplishments are the only thing we can actually measure, but I also think we can get a fairly good idea about relative skill levels as well. Flash and Nada are the most successful players ever, with 6 starleague titles each. On paper, they are even, but I think most people would recognise that Flash played in an environment where the level of competition was far more fierce.
The reason Stephano is the best foreigner and it's not even close is, to put it in somewhat silly fashion, that he's the only foreigner who truly dominated his kin. Naniwa has always had the ability to beat top Koreans, but it's also never been surprising to see him get knocked out by players without any particularly impressive achievements. People tend to respect the ability to beat top competition more than anything else and in that category I'd say Stephano only has a slight edge, but not losing to lesser players is just as important an element of dominance.
Stephano was indeed very consistent, he almost never lost to people he was supposed to beat. His style and gamesense made him incredibly difficult to take out unless you could just straight up outplay him.
Yep Stephano is clearly the best foreigner we ever had. Also it was most easy to cheer for him as he has a much better personality than Naniwa.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
Dont be dumb. We were ready to replace Taeja two days earlier because he thought his hands may be too bad to play. We literally replaced the best CS:GO analyst in the world ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT. We're really really good at improvising and making shit work - if a player doesn't want to play, it's ok. We just replace him. Jarett Cale wasn't involved in the event until we fired Thorin....it was all improvised and put together in the final hours to make the event work...it was a miracle that he was on site. Shit happens. We deal with it. If a player doesn't want to play we can and will replace him with someone who does.
Watch this magic: Naniwa: "I dont want to play" ESL: "Jaedong want a direct invite to fix the problem?" Jaedong: "Yes"
Tada. There's no ''affront''. This isn't kespa. We just want to make make cool shit so people can enjoy it.
On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote: i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house. I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra
Misses Scarlett plz?
Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion.
Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time.
Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
Well "skill" is also quite vague, how do you determine who is the most skilled player? You can look on Aligulac ratings and see that Stephano had the better winrates and peak ratings out of the three. Stephano actually won tournaments, a lot of them, beating Koreans, he really solidified the ling/infestor/ultra style when pretty much all zergs were playing muta/ling, he was crushing Protoss players with his roach maxout timing, he was very consistent during his career, etc...
I agree with you that "best" is a very vague term, but I think that in this situation it's pretty clear that Stephano was the "best" foreigner in SC2. And seriously? Putting Huk, Jinro and Idra in the same "tier" as Stephano, Naniwa and Scarlett is just wrong lol.
It's not about how much you win, it's about who you win against. Stephano is the most successful foreigner by far, but I believe the level of opponents he faced cannot be favourably compared to what Scarlett and Nani faced in terms of raw ability. As for Jinro and HuK, they basically played and won when the game was in its infancy. No disrespect to them or their accomplishments, they are impressive certainly, but the level of play in the early WoL GSLs and MLGs is another world compared to today.
In the end, accomplishments are the only thing we can actually measure, but I also think we can get a fairly good idea about relative skill levels as well. Flash and Nada are the most successful players ever, with 6 starleague titles each. On paper, they are even, but I think most people would recognise that Flash played in an environment where the level of competition was far more fierce.
The reason Stephano is the best foreigner and it's not even close is, to put it in somewhat silly fashion, that he's the only foreigner who truly dominated his kin. Naniwa has always had the ability to beat top Koreans, but it's also never been surprising to see him get knocked out by players without any particularly impressive achievements. People tend to respect the ability to beat top competition more than anything else and in that category I'd say Stephano only has a slight edge, but not losing to lesser players is just as important an element of dominance.
Stephano was indeed very consistent, he almost never lost to people he was supposed to beat. His style and gamesense made him incredibly difficult to take out unless you could just straight up outplay him.
"I believe the level of opponents he faced cannot be favourably compared to what Scarlett and Nani faced in terms of raw ability"
yes because EVERYONE was lover level? please not this argument again.
Stephano won over more koreans than Naniwa, he revolutionized the metagame, he actually won tournaments, plus he was a more likeable personality. Naniwa's ability to beat koreans is comparable to Stephano's relative to that time, but that's it. he falls short at every different aspect. and btw he never did anything as impressive as Stephanos killing of like 5 gsl champions in a row. people keep saying he beat mvp and nestea, but they don't remember that he forced a rematch with nestea by lying about spawn positions, and that Demuslim/Haypro etc. also had wins vs mvp/nestea at that time.
bottom line, Naniwa's nowhere near Stephano's relative level at the time, period.
While it doesn't excuse Naniwas behaviour, I wonder why Alliance even bothered to send him to IEM in the first place. He clearly didn't want to go and as we all know, he's not afraid to cause a scene either. It would have put both Alliance and Naniwa in a better light if they just let him go inactive/retire peacefully.
Naniwas dismissal was certainly the correct course of actions on Alliances part. If Thorin somehow believes otherwise and even accuses EG/Alliance of improper behavior, then I have to wonder where he has worked in the past and how many of those places would have accepted not doing your job properly and humiliating the company publicly in the process without firing him. As a teamowner I would have fired Naniwa on the spot for that and our contracts do include a clause that would have allowed us to do that, no questions asked. Not doing your job is grounds for firing, no question about that. I imagine the interview will consist of accusations of mismanagement for sending him in the first place plus whatever other dirty laundry can be dug up, but they do not in any way excuse his actions.
Yet he did worse things than Naniwa ever did
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
how dare my employer ask me to do something i don't wanna do! naniwa needed a wake-up call and hopefully this will give him a slight one. his attitude and approach to a lot of things were just completely unprofessional and disrespectful. trying to blame alliance for the mistakes hes made is a joke.
The kid has obviously problems that go beyond Starcraft 2 and it is sad for me, because these problems if not addressed will follow him in the future, and prevent him from having a happy life, from using his clear talent and focus. He will have a tough time working anywhere with this attitude.
Dude has always has a problem with them. Yeah the organization who fucking pays players what they deserve is so damn terrible. EG so terrible that their players pretty much always want to resign with them... What a bad organization.
Naniwa has had issues with EVERY team he has ever been on. Maybe its not the teams...
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Although I don't think soundproofing was an issue (see San vs Hero or SoS vs Hero, proxy gates worked multiple times in the same environment), I also don't think naniwa was lying. I just think he talked himself into believing this, because it gives him a way out.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Thorin talking smack on EG/Alliance? NO WAY!
Dude has always has a problem with them. Yeah the organization who fucking pays players what they deserve is so damn terrible. EG so terrible that their players pretty much always want to resign with them... What a bad organization.
Naniwa has had issues with EVERY team he has ever been on. Maybe its not the teams...
But they are totally evil for expecting people to perform certain tasks in exchange for payment! That's like, slavery or whatever.
On March 22 2014 00:08 -Celestial- wrote:So the simplest assumption is that they warned him that he'd be punished (likely financially) if he didn't go. And consequently he went (in hope of still getting paid? I don't know, speculating, there has to be SOME reason for him to have gone given that he clearly didn't want to be there).
Since we're speculating: what if the consequences weren't just "not getting paid" but also that he had to pay a substantial fine to the team? What if it said was basically: if you break this contract, you bind yourself to pay a fine of $100000. You still think he was "free to set his foot down"? Sometimes strings and ropes are invisible. And just as it was within the team's legal rights to push the contract to its limits, it was Nani's right to legally forfeit once he was on site. I doubt he had planned to forfeit, but the soundproof thing was the last drop that pushed him over the edge to do it anyway. In this theoretical scenario, he answered his team with the same coin. He pushed his legal rights.
I'm not saying the above is true, but since people here tend to speculate and then turn their own theories and assumptions into truth, I thought I would show an alternative theory.
Except your own argument makes no sense. If your case was true then he would have played the games out and left quietly, so as not to have broken any terms of his contract. His actions here instead will have most definitely broken those terms in the most dramatic way possible, there WILL have been clauses with regards to bringing the team or its sponsors into disrepute. And given the industry they're likely to be associated with the most dire punishments. Teams cannot afford that level of negative publicity. Note how Idra was apparently constantly being fined for his attitude which eventually resulted in him being dropped by EG.
Naniwa will have had a contract for his team. That contract will have laid out the team's ability to levy punishments and fines for various actions. However there is always the possibility for a mutual termination of a contract. If he intended to retire then that will have been grounds for such a mutual termination. That will have let everyone part with good grace.
Therefore in your theoretical example instead of negotiating with the team for his release, or just playing on through to avoid breaking his contract, he has instead decided to take a huge fine just to make himself look bad and get sacked.
I don't understand why so many people think Nani is acting like a baby and complaining. He seems to be perfectly fine with not having his team sponsor him anymore. Then again quite a few people seem to be saying they don't like Nani for these reasons but like Idra so yea xD
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Naniwas dismissal was certainly the correct course of actions on Alliances part. If Thorin somehow believes otherwise and even accuses EG/Alliance of improper behavior, then I have to wonder where he has worked in the past and how many of those places would have accepted not doing your job properly and humiliating the company publicly in the process without firing him. As a teamowner I would have fired Naniwa on the spot for that and our contracts do include a clause that would have allowed us to do that, no questions asked. Not doing your job is grounds for firing, no question about that. I imagine the interview will consist of accusations of mismanagement for sending him in the first place plus whatever other dirty laundry can be dug up, but they do not in any way excuse his actions.
I have this great human belief that you would not send one of your players, that would hurt him/her, rather than help him/her. Come on, TB, I know you'd protect your children <3.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
Dont be dumb. We were ready to replace Taeja two days earlier because he thought his hands may be too bad to play. We literally replaced the best CS:GO analyst in the world ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT. We're really really good at improvising and making shit work - if a player doesn't want to play, it's ok. We just replace him. Jarett Cale wasn't involved in the event until we fired Thorin....it was all improvised and put together in the final hours to make the event work...it was a miracle that he was on site. Shit happens. We deal with it. If a player doesn't want to play we can and will replace him with someone who does.
Watch this magic: Naniwa: "I dont want to play" ESL: "Jaedong want a direct invite to fix the problem?" Jaedong: "Yes"
Tada. There's no ''affront''. This isn't kespa. We just want to make make cool shit so people can enjoy it.
b-b-b-b-ut hasu
Hasu, Mana, JYP, JD....lots of options
Hasu made it to spot 3 in the open bracket, I had my hopes up he would replace Naniwa as well x3. But I know JD was just an example.
What a terrible attitude to have. It's what I would expect from a rebellious 16 or 17-year-old, but not from a 24-year-old adult. Don't care how good he is, that kind of attitude is nothing but destructive to the scene that sustains him and his profession. Also, I like how he seems to believe he has all the time in word, when there's dozens of younger, motivated players working hard to take his place.
Sadly, he's getting just what he wanted. Publicity and Attention.
The way he acted overall should have consequences whether it be removed/banned/suspended from tournaments in the future for x amount of time or community sites just the same.
The way he acted was unbecoming of himself, disrespectful to the event and the community, but most of all, just having a piss poor attitude in general. If he didn't want to go, don't go. You were quitting anyways so who cares if you were kicked off your team for not going. You got kicked off anyways.
Being a dick and ill-mannered is the way of the future for this community and sadly that's how its been going for awhile. It should not be condoned and it should not be favored.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Thorin talking smack on EG/Alliance? NO WAY!
Dude has always has a problem with them. Yeah the organization who fucking pays players what they deserve is so damn terrible. EG so terrible that their players pretty much always want to resign with them... What a bad organization.
(I remember something along those lines, correct me if I'm confusing something here, I'll edit it out in that case)
? And didn't Revival, aLive and Oz get cut as soon as EG didn't need them for PL anymore? I have nothing against EG for doing buisness how buisness is done, but you shouldn't see them as saints either.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Naniwa has had issues with EVERY team he has ever been on. Maybe its not the teams...
AFAIK he was fine on Quantic until they merged with Vile.
Well, what a childish maneuver...don't try to come back with the excuse of reclaiming the title of the best foreigner after practicing only 2 weeks. Nobody wants to see you in the game anymore. Go live your life and die in peace without subjecting us to your presence.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Thorin talking smack on EG/Alliance? NO WAY!
Dude has always has a problem with them. Yeah the organization who fucking pays players what they deserve is so damn terrible. EG so terrible that their players pretty much always want to resign with them... What a bad organization.
(I remember something along those lines, correct me if I'm confusing something here, I'll edit it out in that case)
? And didn't Revival, aLive and Oz get cut as soon as EG didn't need them for PL anymore? I have nothing against EG for doing buisness how buisness is done, but you shouldn't see them as saints either.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
On March 22 2014 01:17 Darkhorse wrote: Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
All I can think about now is how Naniwa has an almost tsundere relationship with the SC2 community. "It-its not like I care what you think or anything~"
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Thorin talking smack on EG/Alliance? NO WAY!
Dude has always has a problem with them. Yeah the organization who fucking pays players what they deserve is so damn terrible. EG so terrible that their players pretty much always want to resign with them... What a bad organization.
(I remember something along those lines, correct me if I'm confusing something here, I'll edit it out in that case)
? And didn't Revival, aLive and Oz get cut as soon as EG didn't need them for PL anymore? I have nothing against EG for doing buisness how buisness is done, but you shouldn't see them as saints either.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Naniwa has had issues with EVERY team he has ever been on. Maybe its not the teams...
AFAIK he was fine on Quantic until they merged with Vile.
Was that the Quantic with the leader who stole a bunch of money from Hyun and put it towards their LoL team?
I have no idea. Naniwa was fine with Quantic, then Quantic merged with Vile, than this Quantic disbanded, a bit later another Quantic reformed and that Quantic betrayed Hyun. But I have no idea, who exactly was managing Quantic, while Naniwa was on it, so I can't comment on that. Simon-whatever-his-name-was betraying Hyun has nothing to do with Nani getting along with the entire team at that point, though.
Btw.; I didn't hear anything on that for quite some time now, wasn't someone investigating on that? Wouldn't Simon be a worthier target to the current community hate.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Thorin talking smack on EG/Alliance? NO WAY!
Dude has always has a problem with them. Yeah the organization who fucking pays players what they deserve is so damn terrible. EG so terrible that their players pretty much always want to resign with them... What a bad organization.
(I remember something along those lines, correct me if I'm confusing something here, I'll edit it out in that case)
? And didn't Revival, aLive and Oz get cut as soon as EG didn't need them for PL anymore? I have nothing against EG for doing buisness how buisness is done, but you shouldn't see them as saints either.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Naniwa has had issues with EVERY team he has ever been on. Maybe its not the teams...
AFAIK he was fine on Quantic until they merged with Vile.
Was that the Quantic with the leader who stole a bunch of money from Hyun and put it towards their LoL team?
Nope Naniwa was on the original Quantic which disbanded. The new Organisation Hyun was on just used the quantic brand.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Thorin talking smack on EG/Alliance? NO WAY!
Dude has always has a problem with them. Yeah the organization who fucking pays players what they deserve is so damn terrible. EG so terrible that their players pretty much always want to resign with them... What a bad organization.
(I remember something along those lines, correct me if I'm confusing something here, I'll edit it out in that case)
? And didn't Revival, aLive and Oz get cut as soon as EG didn't need them for PL anymore? I have nothing against EG for doing buisness how buisness is done, but you shouldn't see them as saints either.
On March 22 2014 01:09 jmbthirteen wrote: Naniwa has had issues with EVERY team he has ever been on. Maybe its not the teams...
AFAIK he was fine on Quantic until they merged with Vile.
Was that the Quantic with the leader who stole a bunch of money from Hyun and put it towards their LoL team?
No, you're thinking of the Quantic that merged with It's Gosu.
This was the Quantic that was doing well for itself then shut down suddenly due to investors pulling out.
How can a 24 year old professional "athlete" be so underdeveloped mentally. It's insane. Hope he focuses on doing something for his future now, because it's gonna be really hard for him with such a personality.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
That's unprofessional as well, but there is a difference between an online cup and a one-per-year-type live event in front of a huge ass audience in terms of sponsor exposure.
Anyway Naniwa has gotten about a hundred thread pages in the past two weeks. Every aspect of this has been discussed to death and people have their opinions on the matter pretty set. Not much of a surprise that Naniwa got dropped from Alliance.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
That's unprofessional as well, but there is a difference between an online cup and a one-per-year-type live event in front of a huge ass audience in terms of sponsor exposure.
On stage, after the first match where people came to watch SC2.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Yes, context is king. I am sure you would get fired for sending one of your attorneys unsuitable to take a case, because he lost it, while being warned by that employee beforehand, that he couldn't.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best.
When I watched it live I was just taken back by the level of bm Naniwa brings. Embarrassing for him and his team. Alliance barely has an SC2 division anyway. This is about the least surprising thing in esports news. Truly disappointing when you see people who have great opportunities throw them away because they can't deal with their egos.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best.
I agree and I think they should've tried to find a replacement for him if he asked them to, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to have the guy they pay go and work for them.
I agree with your points, all except the one where you claim NaNiwa is lying. You don't know that, and according to him Polt said that he could hear casters as well. Who knows if he's right or not? I know there were proxies in the finals but neither of the players understands English anyway.
I do agree he should be fired for his actions though. But let's drop the "he's lying"- part.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Yes, context is king. I am sure you would get fired for sending one of your attorneys unsuitable to take a case, because he lost it, while being warned by that employee beforehand, that he couldn't.
Oh that would never happen. We are paid to take losing cases we don't want all time. Not every client hires you for a winner. No one is excited to get their ass handed to them on court, but we do it because is paychecks.
So no, we always do things we don't like, because we are professionals.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
Tell that to the people that came there and payed train ticket, bus ticket, taxis, hostels in order to see him play. Because you know that some people come just for one player. It exists, happens etc...
But if i was to come to see Flash play after paying a 100$ train ticket, i would be PRETTY PISSED if he forfeited after 1game where he would proxy SCV his opponent in a Bo5.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
Would it really be so hard for Alliance to simply... not pay Naniwa and let him retire peacefully? I mean, he wanted to retire anyway and said that money was not the issue. The end result would be the same except there wouldn't be a shitstorm.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
Would it really be so hard for Alliance to simply... not pay Naniwa and let him retire peacefully? I mean, he wanted to retire anyway and said that money was not the issue. The end result would be the same except there wouldn't be a shitstorm.
There is probably some aspect where Alliance wont pay him due to breach of contract and breach of services. He was under contract to represent Alliance in a respectful/mannerful and well deserved meaning which he was not and did not. Hence he can cry about not getting paid all he wants when he brought it upon himself.
Like I said, he's getting what he wanted. Publicity and Attention. No point in giving it to him.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
Tell that to the people that came there and payed train ticket, bus ticket, taxis, hostels in order to see him play. Because you know that some people come just for one player. It exists, happens etc...
But if i was to come to see Flash play after paying a 100$ train ticket, i would be PRETTY PISSED if he forfeited after 1game where he would proxy SCV his opponent in a Bo5.
Honestly I would'nt expect someone to do that for a single player in a single elim bracket. I mean, they have to count in the possibility of getting to see him for a very short time (one bo5, if things go bad). It's not that a whole weekend gets stolen away from them, if Nani would have been in bad shape, it would be highly likely that the series without the forfit would have taken about 45 minutes longer. Especially in a case like Nani, who always sees himself as a competitor, not an entertainer and is known for cancelling tourneys relatively shortly before they begin, everyone should count in the possibility of not getting to see that much.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
The way Nanniwa did it forfits are a big deal. He could have forfited earlier and esl would have found an replacement. He would have still had problems with his team but the public backlash would have been way less. He didn't do it probably because in his mind "polt can hear the casters" sounds better than "I forfit because I'm not prepared for Polt"
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
Would it really be so hard for Alliance to simply... not pay Naniwa and let him retire peacefully? I mean, he wanted to retire anyway and said that money was not the issue. The end result would be the same except there wouldn't be a shitstorm.
I dunno the inner workings of the business and his contract so not sure if I can comment on that.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
The way Nanniwa did it forfits are a big deal. He could have forfited earlier and esl would have found an replacement. He would have still had problems with his team but the public backlash would have been way less. He didn't do it probably because in his mind "polt can hear the casters" sounds better than "I forfit because I'm not prepared for Polt"
They could even have given his spot to the 3rd place finisher of the open bracket.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
The way Nanniwa did it forfits are a big deal. He could have forfited earlier and esl would have found an replacement. He would have still had problems with his team but the public backlash would have been way less. He didn't do it probably because in his mind "polt can hear the casters" sounds better than "I forfit because I'm not prepared for Polt"
He tried to forfit earlier, but his team didn't let him. Do you really think, he forfeit, because he doesn't want to admit, that Polt would have beaten him? After he already played that many series in the past, where he said in the interview before, that he considered himself the underdog? At the MLG Polt won, Naniwa played him in the semis, called himself the underdog before, but still put up a fight in every game, before going down. This has nothing to do with Polt winning.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
On March 22 2014 02:12 darkness wrote: Can anyone summarise what Naniwa did at the event? Some high level description but still descriptive enough. Thanks.
On March 22 2014 02:12 darkness wrote: Can anyone summarise what Naniwa did at the event? Some high level description but still descriptive enough. Thanks.
He was up against polt, the match started and naniwa tried a proxy-gate. Polt scouted Nanis strategy and defended accordingly, Naniwa then complained about the booth not beeing soundproof and left the arena shortly after. Polt won a Bo5 1-0.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
The way Nanniwa did it forfits are a big deal. He could have forfited earlier and esl would have found an replacement. He would have still had problems with his team but the public backlash would have been way less. He didn't do it probably because in his mind "polt can hear the casters" sounds better than "I forfit because I'm not prepared for Polt"
I think what Naniwa did was a slap in the face of Alliance. As his post suggest he didn't want to go but was "forced" to. The cause of the forfeit is probably a combination of things; Fear of being humiliated by Polt, maybe indeed annoyance about the soundproofing but also anger towards the people who made him attend IEM. Edit: So I don't think he was just fired because of forfeiting but he evidently ended a quarrel about going to this tournament by forfeiting. At least, I can understand it if Alliance would perceive it that way.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Stephano has legitimately forfeited online cups because "I'm too le tired to play."
online cups ≠ 100000$ tournament in a stadium broadcasted to more than 70000 viewers
Ro16 ≠ Post-semi final as well. And it was not a weekly 100$ cup, but a 5k-Invitational. Btw. I'm not trying to shit on Stephano here, I just try to demonstrate, that forfits are not that big of a deal.
The way Nanniwa did it forfits are a big deal. He could have forfited earlier and esl would have found an replacement. He would have still had problems with his team but the public backlash would have been way less. He didn't do it probably because in his mind "polt can hear the casters" sounds better than "I forfit because I'm not prepared for Polt"
I think what Naniwa did was a slap in the face of Alliance. As his post suggest he didn't want to go but was "forced" to. The cause of the forfeit is probably a combination of things; Fear of being humiliated by Polt, maybe indeed annoyance about the soundproofing but also anger towards the people who made him attend IEM.
Couldn't agree more. If he didn't want to play in the first place he should have worked with the team internally to figure that out. If they truly did force him to go (which is a dubious claim at best) then just play the series out. If he didn't care about it chances are he would have just gotten swept 3-0, which is still better than doing what he did.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
+1
Sadly, not many other individual see this or care about this fact.
That is some bad team management there. Kudos to Kennigit and Redeye who had to resolve a situation which alliance management should have prevented way before. (e: plus the referees, sorry messisio, shawn and the crew)
On March 22 2014 02:12 darkness wrote: Can anyone summarise what Naniwa did at the event? Some high level description but still descriptive enough. Thanks.
On March 22 2014 02:12 darkness wrote: Can anyone summarise what Naniwa did at the event? Some high level description but still descriptive enough. Thanks.
He was up against polt, the match started and naniwa tried a proxy-gate. Polt scouted Nanis strategy and defended accordingly, Naniwa then complained about the booth not beeing soundproof and left the arena shortly after. Polt won a Bo5 1-0.
Thanks guys! I know what happened now. I think being kicked/fired in this case is justified. He's not only a player, but an employee too, so he has to listen to his team's administration.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
I love how people try to make their penises look as huge as possible by flaming on forums and proving people wrong....oh wait...^_^
On March 22 2014 02:23 TumNarDok wrote: That is some bad team management there. Kudos to Kennigit and Redeye who had to resolve a situation which alliance management should have prevented way before. (e: plus the referees, sorry messisio, shawn and the crew)
Yeah, Alliance should've kicked him out as soon as he said that he's quitting/doesn't want to go to IEM. You don't like your job? There's the door.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
I love how people try to make their penises look as huge as possible by flaming on forums and proving people wrong....oh wait...^_^
good work flaming him and proving him wrong. we can't be sure of your penis size though, please don't post a picture to prove your point in that area. if u say its big i'll just take your word for it.
Naniwa must have the all time record for most teams played for as an SC2 pro. with how carefully liquipedia tracks stuff someone must know for sure if this is the case.
I'm just surprised all this was not handled more gracefully by all parties. Make an official announcement that Naniwa doesn't want to play anymore so he's released from his team and let him not play IEM, so someone takes his place.
I guess the issue was that Naniwa wanted to stay on the team, while not even playing the game and bragging about it. Well, that's tough.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
On March 22 2014 02:30 figq wrote: I'm just surprised all this was not handled more gracefully by all parties. Make an official announcement that Naniwa doesn't want to play anymore so he's released from his team and let him not play IEM, so someone takes his place.
I guess the issue was that Naniwa wanted to stay on the team, while not even playing the game and bragging about it. Well, that's tough.
He was probably expecting some kind of unpaid 'holiday' till he eventually finds inspiration to play SC2 again. However, it really depends how flexible a company is.
I am on Naniwas side. Nothing more to say about it. I will wait for your return Naniwa! Your professional attitude towards practice and hard work made you the best foreigner to date. Thx for those inspiring times.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing?
Opinions on this vary but almost everyone else said there were no soundproofing issues.
On March 21 2014 19:35 JacobShock wrote: Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now, I just don't find it fun. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
This guy said it. Even though SC2 is a computer game it is also a business and contracts are something that binds you and you can't just do whatever you feel like doing and still expect the team to fulfill their part of the bargain.
Just showing up isn't enough. Every profession has certain standards that need to be achieved.His actions also reflect to the team and sponsors.
SC2 or anything else, Naniwa will always have problems with anything he does until he grows up and starts acting like an adult instead of thinking he is the center of the universe and everything revolves around him.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that? Yeah hi guys, basically im amazing and will turn up when I feel like it, give you abuse and you'll pay me cause you suck if you don't.
I think on unfiltered someone suggested the next logical step, a naniwa reality tv series where he goes from job to job.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
DO we have any proof on this? Don't just say ''because he didn't want to go there''.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
It's not completely certain that he lied. But it is certain that it was not just the soundproofing that prompted him to forfeit the match.
I am worried about scarlett. She is now #1 foreigner without any foreigner rivalry and I can understand that she is not motivated anymore.
Be #1 feels great for few days/weeks but then you hate it, especially if you dont have competition for many weeks/months/years (you can think #1 is meaningless).
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
On March 22 2014 02:30 figq wrote: I'm just surprised all this was not handled more gracefully by all parties. Make an official announcement that Naniwa doesn't want to play anymore so he's released from his team and let him not play IEM, so someone takes his place.
I guess the issue was that Naniwa wanted to stay on the team, while not even playing the game and bragging about it. Well, that's tough.
He was probably expecting some kind of unpaid 'holiday' till he eventually finds inspiration to play SC2 again. However, it really depends how flexible a company is.
The way he was presenting his motivation was not making it any easier. It seems he was enjoying himself so much for not playing and getting paid. It's completely different from other cases of temporary absence from the scene for personal reasons, where people manage to stay humble, respectful and hopeful that they will make effort to return as soon as they can.
On March 21 2014 19:35 JacobShock wrote: Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now, I just don't find it fun. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
This guy said it. Even though SC2 is a computer game it is also a business and contracts are something that binds you and you can't just do whatever you feel like doing and still expect the team to fulfill their part of the bargain.
Just showing up isn't enough. Every profession has certain standards that need to be achieved.His actions also reflect to the team and sponsors.
SC2 or anything else, Naniwa will always have problems with anything he does until he grows up and starts acting like an adult instead of thinking he is the center of the universe and everything revolves around him.
Yeah, as I said in some earlier post, naniwa is not just a player, but an employee too. Players really need to realise that. Fans too. Being a professional gamer should not be viewed as plain gaming.
Well, not really surprising lol. He didn't fulfill his duties as part of Alliance and got fired for it. Hope he works on his personality, more specifically his BM and such. Best of luck to him!
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
DO we have any proof on this? Don't just say ''because he didn't want to go there''.
other players, LoL players and such said that there were no soundproofing issues. Keep in mind that soundproofing is not 100% possible without expensive equipment so you can make the same claim he did for every tourney if that's the case.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing?
He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best.
I agree and I think they should've tried to find a replacement for him if he asked them to, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to have the guy they pay go and work for them.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Forcing someone to go to a tournament he doesn't want to comes close. Should've just "fired" him before the tourney. It's both their faults for how it turned out.
Good for nani to take a break tbh, no point in doign something for a living that you don't enjoy.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
I love the flow of this conversation: Random internet person who likes Naniwa: this was no big deal An actual team owner and investor in the SC2 scene: actually let me post this long explanation why it is a big deal Random internet person: What? No one physically died! How dont you understand, team owner and investor in SC2 scene that when someone says 'no big deal' they specifically mean the end of the world or a death of a human being. god you are such an idiot!
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
i think some of it is Naniwa just playing "bad guy wrestler". and he feeds off of the negative reaction because he is bored. Naniwa is a modern day Andy Kaufman.
people getting all riled up about this stuff ...is exactly what he is looking for.
On March 22 2014 02:37 BigFan wrote: Well, not really surprising lol. He didn't fulfill his duties as part of Alliance and got fired for it. Hope he works on his personality, more specifically his BM and such. Best of luck to him!
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
DO we have any proof on this? Don't just say ''because he didn't want to go there''.
other players, LoL players and such said that there were no soundproofing issues. Keep in mind that soundproofing is not 100% possible without expensive equipment so you can make the same claim he did for every tourney if that's the case.
LoL player doesn't use booths, but it is truth that it is impossible to fully seal the sound, that's no lie.
I don't like that people speculate and assume things as if they are truths.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing?
He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit.
ya, that's what I think as well. It seems like a convenient excuse since he said he wanted to leave the scene
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best.
I agree and I think they should've tried to find a replacement for him if he asked them to, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to have the guy they pay go and work for them.
didn't he already say he was gonna call quits.
Yes he did apparently. I don't know what this has to do with my post though :/
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing?
He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit.
ya, that's what I think as well. It seems like a convenient excuse since he said he wanted to leave the scene
If that's the case, then I'd speculate even further that he didn't want to get embarrassed be it due to lack of practice or whatever. Going proxy in game 1 in his specific case just implies lack of confidence.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
Good counter argument...
"No one died, so I guess it doesn't matter at all."
On March 22 2014 02:37 BigFan wrote: Well, not really surprising lol. He didn't fulfill his duties as part of Alliance and got fired for it. Hope he works on his personality, more specifically his BM and such. Best of luck to him!
On March 22 2014 02:35 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 22 2014 02:32 Fran_ wrote:
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
DO we have any proof on this? Don't just say ''because he didn't want to go there''.
other players, LoL players and such said that there were no soundproofing issues. Keep in mind that soundproofing is not 100% possible without expensive equipment so you can make the same claim he did for every tourney if that's the case.
LoL player doesn't use booths, but it is truth that it is impossible to fully seal the sound, that's no lie.
I don't like that people speculate and assume things as if they are truths.
Honestly, if he really wanted to not play anymore, he should've resigned from the team way back when he first decided on it(2 months ago he stopped playing the game) then that's enough time to find replacement. He would've had to burn bridges with alliance and IEM but then he wouldn't have landed in this position. If he couldn't just resign like that, he should've just proxy 1 gated 3 games in a row or something to lose faster if he's that against playing.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing?
He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit.
ya, that's what I think as well. It seems like a convenient excuse since he said he wanted to leave the scene
If that's the case, then I'd speculate even further that he didn't want to get embarrassed be it due to lack of practice or whatever.
Everyone expected him to lose 0-3 anyways so there was no embarrassment to speak of lol. All he had to do was play 3 games. cmon, you can't really tell me that's hard to do >.> Heck, he could easily cheese each game like 1 gate proxy, proxy stargate and 4 gate some game. There's a chance that Polt would defend and such so within 20-30mins, he's lost but fulfilled his obligations.
On March 22 2014 02:37 BigFan wrote: Well, not really surprising lol. He didn't fulfill his duties as part of Alliance and got fired for it. Hope he works on his personality, more specifically his BM and such. Best of luck to him!
On March 22 2014 02:35 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 22 2014 02:32 Fran_ wrote:
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
DO we have any proof on this? Don't just say ''because he didn't want to go there''.
other players, LoL players and such said that there were no soundproofing issues. Keep in mind that soundproofing is not 100% possible without expensive equipment so you can make the same claim he did for every tourney if that's the case.
LoL player doesn't use booths, but it is truth that it is impossible to fully seal the sound, that's no lie.
I don't like that people speculate and assume things as if they are truths.
Honestly, if he really wanted to not play anymore, he should've resigned from the team way back when he first decided on it(2 months ago he stopped playing the game) then that's enough time to find replacement. He would've had to burn bridges with alliance and IEM but then he wouldn't have landed in this position. If he couldn't just resign like that, he should've just proxy 1 gated 3 games in a row or something to lose faster if he's that against playing.
Now that is something I can agree with, but done is done That was my only feeling about everything. Just get destroyed and leave and everything will be good, but he chose his own way which sucked for us all.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
Good counter argument...
"No one died, so I guess it doesn't matter at all."
See guys, Naniwa didn't murder anyone! It's Peachy Keen!
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing?
He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit.
ya, that's what I think as well. It seems like a convenient excuse since he said he wanted to leave the scene
If that's the case, then I'd speculate even further that he didn't want to get embarrassed be it due to lack of practice or whatever.
Everyone expected him to lose 0-3 anyways so there was no embarrassment to speak of lol. All he had to do was play 3 games. cmon, you can't really tell me that's hard to do >.> Heck, he could easily cheese each game like 1 gate proxy, proxy stargate and 4 gate some game. There's a chance that Polt would defend and such so within 20-30mins, he's lost but fulfilled his obligations.
Being expected to lose and how he feels are two different things. The latter is different because his mentality is not of a loser as far as I understand his personality. So some people have hard time accepting losses. Btw, does anyone remember what Naniwa did vs Nestea? I think that's just another case where Naniwa hasn't learned.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best.
I agree and I think they should've tried to find a replacement for him if he asked them to, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to have the guy they pay go and work for them.
didn't he already say he was gonna call quits.
Yes he did apparently. I don't know what this has to do with my post though :/
all I'm saying is that Alliance knowing full well what naniwa is like(AKA the whole I do what I want as I want attitude) and his current lack of interest in the game, shouldn't have forced him to play.
then again its also naniwa's fault for not retiring straight away, instead of waiting for his contract to lapse.
On March 22 2014 02:37 BigFan wrote: Well, not really surprising lol. He didn't fulfill his duties as part of Alliance and got fired for it. Hope he works on his personality, more specifically his BM and such. Best of luck to him!
On March 22 2014 02:35 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 22 2014 02:32 Fran_ wrote:
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
DO we have any proof on this? Don't just say ''because he didn't want to go there''.
other players, LoL players and such said that there were no soundproofing issues. Keep in mind that soundproofing is not 100% possible without expensive equipment so you can make the same claim he did for every tourney if that's the case.
LoL player doesn't use booths, but it is truth that it is impossible to fully seal the sound, that's no lie.
I don't like that people speculate and assume things as if they are truths.
Honestly, if he really wanted to not play anymore, he should've resigned from the team way back when he first decided on it(2 months ago he stopped playing the game) then that's enough time to find replacement. He would've had to burn bridges with alliance and IEM but then he wouldn't have landed in this position. If he couldn't just resign like that, he should've just proxy 1 gated 3 games in a row or something to lose faster if he's that against playing.
Now that is something I can agree with, but done is done That was my only feeling about everything. Just get destroyed and leave and everything will be good, but he chose his own way which sucked for us all.
yep. I expected he'll just lose due to lack of practice or something so I got shocked that he just forfeit and blamed soundproofing. Did make for some entertaining read afterwards lol.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad).
What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing?
He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit.
ya, that's what I think as well. It seems like a convenient excuse since he said he wanted to leave the scene
If that's the case, then I'd speculate even further that he didn't want to get embarrassed be it due to lack of practice or whatever.
Everyone expected him to lose 0-3 anyways so there was no embarrassment to speak of lol. All he had to do was play 3 games. cmon, you can't really tell me that's hard to do >.> Heck, he could easily cheese each game like 1 gate proxy, proxy stargate and 4 gate some game. There's a chance that Polt would defend and such so within 20-30mins, he's lost but fulfilled his obligations.
Being expected to lose and how he feels are two different things. The latter is different because his mentality is not of a loser as far as I understand his personality. So some people have hard time accepting losses. Btw, does anyone remember what Naniwa did vs Nestea? I think that's just another case where Naniwa hasn't learned.
If his contract said he had to play x games, then he should play them even if it means losing which is hard to take. He signed with Alliance so he obviously knew what to expect. Honestly, I find this whole mentality thing as another excuse in this case. Yes, he hates losing and doesn't have the loser mentality (so he should win everything then or he'll be depressed, right?) but that's not valid when you have a job to carry out. It's not like they are asking him to do something big either. He just has to play 3 games, think about it, 3 games only. He could easily cheese them then lose and finish it. It wouldn't take any time but he chose the other route.
On March 21 2014 16:12 DarKFoRcE wrote: If he isnt playing anymore there wouldnt be much of a point for him to stay in a team anyway, no? Seems reasonable to me.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
You as a team owner have clearly better data of what economical damage is done by things like that, so I can't really disagree with you here, but if that is true, why does this case deserve so much more attention than the cases we had before? Tyler forfeit a series after game 2 during NASL, which is as big as IEM, and never got fired for that, Stephano forfeit an invitational before the finals and Millenium never did anything to him.
From the perspective of the team, I can understand their reaction and thus your point, but the amout of hate he gets from the community is getting blown out of proprtion.. And saying, that nothing in the last 4 years comes close is just simply wrong IMHO, if you think about the Spades and Daisuke incidents we had, those were far more severe. Ofc. what Nani did was not a prime example of sportsmanlike behaviour, but it still was within the rules. Having a map-hacking player on your team will probably get you more negative attention than what Nani did. His comeback is still a possibility, but those two are gone and no team will ever take them back.
On March 22 2014 02:36 Dingodile wrote: I am worried about scarlett. She is now #1 foreigner without any foreigner rivalry and I can understand that she is not motivated anymore.
Be #1 feels great for few days/weeks but then you hate it, especially if you dont have competition for many weeks/months/years (you can think #1 is meaningless).
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at this point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is widely open.
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care.
no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best.
I agree and I think they should've tried to find a replacement for him if he asked them to, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to have the guy they pay go and work for them.
didn't he already say he was gonna call quits.
Yes he did apparently. I don't know what this has to do with my post though :/
all I'm saying is that Alliance knowing full well what naniwa is like(AKA the whole I do what I want as I want attitude) and his current lack of interest in the game, shouldn't have forced him to play.
then again its also naniwa's fault for not retiring straight away, instead of waiting for his contract to lapse.
Yeah I agree. I think Alliance should have allowed him to bow out and found a replacement. They could have easily negotiated for JD to get an invite in his place and boom your team is still represented.
Players act like this because they know it doesn't matter, when he makes his comeback (not if) he will be picked up instantly by a team, might even be alliance again.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
Good counter argument...
"No one died, so I guess it doesn't matter at all."
That's not at all what im sayin. It does matter and Naniwa got fired for it. I just feel like TB is on a mission to crucify Naniwa and i don't like it. He's in every Naniwa post or thread with the same shitty message.
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open.
It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
lol. "it's a sponsor thing" Of course it fucking is, since the sponsor ist PAYING you, and your "work" ist to show off his brand.That's why you have a extra shirt... If I would go to my boss and say "Um, I don't want to work on that project, and I didn't really work in the last 4 month" they would not be happy either. Jesus.
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open.
It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
I thought we settled this. Scarlett is going to Korea to ask Wolf for hair advice and find Byun.
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open.
It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
I thought we settled this. Scarlett is going to Korea to ask Wolf for hair advice and find Byun.
I'd like to think she can sneak a little SC in there somewhere
Though I'll take a new haircut over a GSL title any day.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
This is absolutely bullshit, if forfeiting is a huge affront, then why do they give the right to do so to the players ?
Jeez
how can people be so delusional? I guess most of these comments come from 14 year olds who have never worked for a second in their lives. if you don't do your job, you're fired. if you get money to do something, and you don't do it, you get fired.
As a 22 y/o working as a developer for one of the biggest company in the world, I'll take that as a compliment.
But I'll use another example : you're developer, and your company puts you on a project where you depend of the files the client sent you. If the said files are utter bullshit and you can't do anything with it, it's your right to say to your company "I can't do the work" and step off of the project. It's a bit extreme but you get the idea.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Yes, context is king. I am sure you would get fired for sending one of your attorneys unsuitable to take a case, because he lost it, while being warned by that employee beforehand, that he couldn't.
Oh that would never happen. We are paid to take losing cases we don't want all time. Not every client hires you for a winner. No one is excited to get their ass handed to them on court, but we do it because is paychecks.
So no, we always do things we don't like, because we are professionals.
Maybe that shows the difference. You are willing to do anything for a paycheck, whereas Naniwa is not. Naniwa is a winner, and cares if he is in a position to win or not.
I am sure, you make sure you pick people who care about the paycheck more than being the winner. So different premises I am sure. So context is king, as you said.
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open.
It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
When I say, that they surpassed her, I don't mean surpassing her at her peak, but surpassing her in her current state. She lost at Shoutcraft, Enders game invitational, WCS AM, while the euro zergs both advanced in WCS and held at Seatstorycup. I'd still rate a 2013 Scarlett above them at the moment, but she hasn't shown to be in that shape for a while now.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
You as a team owner have clearly better data of what economical damage is done by things like that, so I can't really disagree with you here, but if that is true, why does this case deserve so much more attention than the cases we had before? Tyler forfeit a series after game 2 during NASL, which is as big as IEM, and never got fired for that, Stephano forfeit an invitational before the finals and Millenium never did anything to him.
From the perspective of the team, I can understand their reaction and thus your point, but the amout of hate he gets from the community is getting blown out of proprtion.. And saying, that nothing in the last 4 years comes close is just simply wrong IMHO, if you think about the Spades and Daisuke incidents we had, those were far more severe. Ofc. what Nani did was not a prime example of sportsmanlike behaviour, but it still was within the rules. Having a map-hacking player on your team will probably get you more negative attention than what Nani did. His comeback is still a possibility, but those two are gone and no team will ever take them back.
On March 22 2014 02:36 Dingodile wrote: I am worried about scarlett. She is now #1 foreigner without any foreigner rivalry and I can understand that she is not motivated anymore.
Be #1 feels great for few days/weeks but then you hate it, especially if you dont have competition for many weeks/months/years (you can think #1 is meaningless).
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at this point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is widely open.
Stephano and Tyler both forfeit in online tournaments, right? that maybe shouldnt matter, but it does. running off stage in front of that crowd is something different. people will remember that, because it created a lot of drama and attention. partly also because their reasoning was different that naniwas. nani blames the tournament, claims they are sabotaging his performance. i really don't think these cases are all that similar, and i don't think kicking naniwa was unjustified. we can argue whether stephano should have faced more severe consequences, because his excuse was also kind of weak, but i don't think that naniwa has much to complain about here.
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open.
It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
When I say, that they surpassed her, I don't mean surpassing her at her peak, but surpassing her in her current state. She lost at Shoutcraft, Enders game invitational, WCS AM, while the euro zergs both advanced in WCS and held at Seatstorycup. I'd still rate a 2013 Scarlett above them at the moment, but she hasn't shown to be in that shape for a while now.
Yeah, that's what a slump means. Everyone has them. Stephano didn't do very well the last few months before he retired, but we judge him for what he accomplished, not for what he didn't. We'll see I guess. She's playing Snute in less than an hour in a Bo3, could be interesting.
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open.
It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
When I say, that they surpassed her, I don't mean surpassing her at her peak, but surpassing her in her current state. She lost at Shoutcraft, Enders game invitational, WCS AM, while the euro zergs both advanced in WCS and held at Seatstorycup. I'd still rate a 2013 Scarlett above them at the moment, but she hasn't shown to be in that shape for a while now.
Yeah, that's what a slump means. Everyone has them. Stephano didn't do very well the last few months before he retired, but we judge him for what he accomplished, not for what he didn't. We'll see I guess. She's playing Snute in less than an hour in a Bo3, could be interesting.
Yes, sure, I know what slump means. That slump is the reason, she isn't the nr.1 anymore, that spot is given out by current state of the player, not by past accomplishments, otherwise we would call HuK/Nerchio/MaNa/ThorZaIN the top foreigners, who play actively atm. Sadly I won`t be around in an hour anymore, otherwise I'd watch that.
On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why.
It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand.
Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form.
Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall.
Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit.
Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet.
Yes, context is king. I am sure you would get fired for sending one of your attorneys unsuitable to take a case, because he lost it, while being warned by that employee beforehand, that he couldn't.
Oh that would never happen. We are paid to take losing cases we don't want all time. Not every client hires you for a winner. No one is excited to get their ass handed to them on court, but we do it because is paychecks.
So no, we always do things we don't like, because we are professionals.
Maybe that shows the difference. You are willing to do anything for a paycheck, whereas Naniwa is not. Naniwa is a winner, and cares if he is in a position to win or not.
I am sure, you make sure you pick people who care about the paycheck more than being the winner. So different premises I am sure.
I consider myself a winner every time I pay the mortgage. That's the different between me and Naniwa. I'm a fuckig grown up and other people rely on me. Naniwa only cares about himself and what he wants. It's always been that way.
And when you don't do your job, you get fired. It's not rocket science. If you don't want to go to IEM, don't got and get fired. Don't go, throw a fit on stage and then get yourself fired.
On March 22 2014 02:36 Enel wrote: Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
Wow, that stunning counterargument. Ok, thanks for confirming that Naniwa was not the one to cause the extinction of the entire human race. He probably also didn't murder a kid or set fire to Odee's house either. He's not responsible for Darfur War orphans so I guess all is forgiven.
Or y'know, it isn't, because it's a moronic fallacy to suggest that just because something wasn't the end of the world that it wasn't still serious in some way. Such blatant ignorance on display from some people. I get it, almost none of you run a team so you don't have inside knowledge or perspective, but at least try and put yourself in the shoes of people that are, who are fiscally tied to this scene and dedicate their lives to its growth.
I just feel like TB is on a mission to crucify Naniwa and i don't like it. He's in every Naniwa post or thread with the same shitty message.
Ahha you have uncovered my masterplan. I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those pesky forum posters. Funny definition of "shitty message" you have there, apparently a well reasoned statement from someone in a position to know what he's talking about is a "Shitty message" in your eyes. Well, what on earth does that make your posts then, I have to wonder...
On March 22 2014 03:17 Orek wrote: Why Alliance and IEM wanted a guy who hadn't practiced the game for a long time to play in the tournament is beyond me.
Well, it seems to have been mostly Alliance wish, judging from Kennigits posts.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
This is absolutely bullshit, if forfeiting is a huge affront, then why do they give the right to do so to the players ?
Jeez
how can people be so delusional? I guess most of these comments come from 14 year olds who have never worked for a second in their lives. if you don't do your job, you're fired. if you get money to do something, and you don't do it, you get fired.
As a 22 y/o working as a developer for one of the biggest company in the world, I'll take that as a compliment.
But I'll use another example : you're developer, and your company puts you on a project where you depend of the files the client sent you. If the said files are utter bullshit and you can't do anything with it, it's your right to say to your company "I can't do the work" and step off of the project. It's a bit extreme but you get the idea.
First you try to get the right/correct files from the one you're supposed to get them from. If that doesnt work, you try via another route. If that doesnt work, you contact your company as to what to do. Follow those instructions, which might be to indeed drop the case, or contact the client again with alternatives. Deciding to drop a project on your own without doing your absolute best to obtain necessary files is about the worst thing you can do.
Going through this analogy, it's clear naniwa missed a few steps.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
This is absolutely bullshit, if forfeiting is a huge affront, then why do they give the right to do so to the players ?
Jeez
how can people be so delusional? I guess most of these comments come from 14 year olds who have never worked for a second in their lives. if you don't do your job, you're fired. if you get money to do something, and you don't do it, you get fired.
As a 22 y/o working as a developer for one of the biggest company in the world, I'll take that as a compliment.
But I'll use another example : you're developer, and your company puts you on a project where you depend of the files the client sent you. If the said files are utter bullshit and you can't do anything with it, it's your right to say to your company "I can't do the work" and step off of the project. It's a bit extreme but you get the idea.
First you try to get the right/correct files from the one you're supposed to get them from. If that doesnt work, you try via another route. If that doesnt work, you contact your company as to what to do. Follow those instructions, which might be to indeed drop the case, or contact the client again with alternatives. Deciding to drop a project on your own without doing your absolute best to obtain necessary files is about the worst thing you can do.
Going through this analogy, it's clear naniwa missed a few steps.
Actually I was trying to say that your client gave you shitty files, not corrupted ones. Like, absolutely not documented, badly written, etc... If you can't do the work with what they gave you and they're not willing to spend more time on them, dropping the project seems correct to me. Maybe the "they're not willing to spend more time on them" part is, in Naniwa's case, when he was talking to the admin.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
Good counter argument...
"No one died, so I guess it doesn't matter at all."
That's not at all what im sayin. It does matter and Naniwa got fired for it. I just feel like TB is on a mission to crucify Naniwa and i don't like it. He's in every Naniwa post or thread with the same shitty message.
I feel like TB's been very pro-Naniwa prior to this. Granted TB is prone to his... well mood swings, but IIRC he's rooted for Naniwa many times in the past.
But anyways, this thread is a bit too crazy for me.
On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote: Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers
This is absolutely bullshit, if forfeiting is a huge affront, then why do they give the right to do so to the players ?
Jeez
how can people be so delusional? I guess most of these comments come from 14 year olds who have never worked for a second in their lives. if you don't do your job, you're fired. if you get money to do something, and you don't do it, you get fired.
As a 22 y/o working as a developer for one of the biggest company in the world, I'll take that as a compliment.
But I'll use another example : you're developer, and your company puts you on a project where you depend of the files the client sent you. If the said files are utter bullshit and you can't do anything with it, it's your right to say to your company "I can't do the work" and step off of the project. It's a bit extreme but you get the idea.
First you try to get the right/correct files from the one you're supposed to get them from. If that doesnt work, you try via another route. If that doesnt work, you contact your company as to what to do. Follow those instructions, which might be to indeed drop the case, or contact the client again with alternatives. Deciding to drop a project on your own without doing your absolute best to obtain necessary files is about the worst thing you can do.
Going through this analogy, it's clear naniwa missed a few steps.
Actually I was trying to say that your client gave you shitty files, not corrupted ones. Like, absolutely not documented, badly written, etc... If you can't do the work with what they gave you and they're not willing to spend more time on them, dropping the project seems correct to me. Maybe the "they're not willing to spend more time on them" part is, in Naniwa's case, when he was talking to the admin.
Contacting the team was not an option? Especially in public cases communication with your employer seems vital. Besides, what you call unwillingness is an assumption. We don't know if the files actually were 'shitty' or not, or if the booth was soundproof. All the more a reason to communicate with your employer.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Actually the reason CranK wasnt fired for that is that it wasn't severe enough to warrant it. That and our grand sum of experience of eSports team management of that point could be measured in a handful of months. If it was CranK on that stage and he did the same thing, I would have fired him, bearing in mind the fact that we know soundproofing was not a factor.
I do think you bring up an interesting point though on the subject of "man-management" (human resources). Do you send a player who is clearly incapable at that point of doing his job, to the biggest tournament this year so far? How much did Alliance really know about his current state of mind and play? He doesn't live in a team-house. If I needed to know how my players were doing I could refer to inhouse rankings, our archived replays, ladder rank, win/loss ratio lately and perhaps most importantly, the opinions of his teammates. Dunno how much of that Alliance could really do. Naniwa claims he did not want to go to the tournament, ok, well how adamant was he? Was it typical Naniwa stubborn-ness or was it genuinely "DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SEND ME BECAUSE THIS WILL BE HORRIBLE". If the latter, you could make a case that Alliance should not have sent him, however you cannot make a case that defends Naniwas actions at the event itself.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
On March 22 2014 02:36 Enel wrote: Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
Wow, that stunning counterargument. Ok, thanks for confirming that Naniwa was not the one to cause the extinction of the entire human race. He probably also didn't murder a kid or set fire to Odee's house either. He's not responsible for Darfur War orphans so I guess all is forgiven.
Or y'know, it isn't, because it's a moronic fallacy to suggest that just because something wasn't the end of the world that it wasn't still serious in some way. Such blatant ignorance on display from some people. I get it, almost none of you run a team so you don't have inside knowledge or perspective, but at least try and put yourself in the shoes of people that are, who are fiscally tied to this scene and dedicate their lives to its growth.
I just feel like TB is on a mission to crucify Naniwa and i don't like it. He's in every Naniwa post or thread with the same shitty message.
Ahha you have uncovered my masterplan. I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those pesky forum posters. Funny definition of "shitty message" you have there, apparently a well reasoned statement from someone in a position to know what he's talking about is a "Shitty message" in your eyes. Well, what on earth does that make your posts then, I have to wonder...
The best part about this, is that I read this in TB's voice. It sounded awesome. Nobody needs to crucify Naniwa anyways, he's done this to himself for so long already.
Couldn't keep quiet on this. It pisses me off when I see/hear such fortunate players that have achieved in some way sponsor ship to play the game (that some of us still love to death) full time as much as they want and then squander it for any reason at all. Some of us do what ever we can to get to play the game a little more and would do anything to have his opportunity, or any highly established player for that matter, to get to play this great game and push our skills as far as possible exploring everything that can be done this strategy game still has to offer. With nothing but the opportunity, time, money, and ambition to practice and improve? Sounds like a dream come true. Then just not caring and dropping it like marines on banelings...
I might be venting off more than just Naniwas incident about this type of topic but it does hurt to see these types of players in these advantageous positions for SC2 and just not caring while the rest of us sacrifice everything to play a few extra hours each day.
If someone doesn't enjoy playing StarCraft then why are they doing it. If someone does enjoy playing StarCraft then why aren't they doing it?
On March 22 2014 02:36 Enel wrote: Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse.
Wow, that stunning counterargument. Ok, thanks for confirming that Naniwa was not the one to cause the extinction of the entire human race. He probably also didn't murder a kid or set fire to Odee's house either. He's not responsible for Darfur War orphans so I guess all is forgiven.
Or y'know, it isn't, because it's a moronic fallacy to suggest that just because something wasn't the end of the world that it wasn't still serious in some way. Such blatant ignorance on display from some people. I get it, almost none of you run a team so you don't have inside knowledge or perspective, but at least try and put yourself in the shoes of people that are, who are fiscally tied to this scene and dedicate their lives to its growth.
I just feel like TB is on a mission to crucify Naniwa and i don't like it. He's in every Naniwa post or thread with the same shitty message.
Ahha you have uncovered my masterplan. I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those pesky forum posters. Funny definition of "shitty message" you have there, apparently a well reasoned statement from someone in a position to know what he's talking about is a "Shitty message" in your eyes. Well, what on earth does that make your posts then, I have to wonder...
The best part about this, is that I read this in TB's voice. It sounded awesome. Nobody needs to crucify Naniwa anyways, he's done this to himself for so long already.
It's his life, he will do what he wants.
Almost anything is better if you think it in TB's voice. Even stock reports or law texts.
I mean he's being an ass about it but he's mostly right if what he's saying about the circumstances are true. Especially the part about the whining that other players deserved his spot in IEM. He did win that spot fair and square. He deserved it more than anyone else who competed for it. And it's his spot to do with what he wants. Sure it's not nice to the viewers, but he isn't obligated to entertain us (unless his contract with his team says he is).
Naniwa has always been a competitor, and a competitor alone. Entertaining fans was never on his list of priorities. He just wanted to win. But now that he doesn't like the game anymore, his team forcing him to play in IEM regardless (if that's actually true) means I can't really blame him for not wanting to play the full set. I guess if his contract says something about having to play or whatever, then he's shirking his contractual responsibilities which isn't good. But I have no idea whats in his contract.
In response to calh, I think we need to make a distinction between caring about the tournament and the game of starcraft versus caring about the integrity of competition in general. Naniwa's actions can still be explained if we understand it as him complaining about soundproofing as a competitor who thinks the competition is unfair. Even if he didn't care about winning or playing Starcraft anymore, he's still a competitor at heart and if he sees something unfair in a competition he's going to say something about it. Maybe. We don't really know what's in Naniwa's head.
On March 22 2014 03:40 OpTiKcoyote wrote: Couldn't keep quiet on this. It pisses me off when I see/hear such fortunate players that have achieved in some way sponsor ship to play the game (that some of us still love to death) full time as much as they want and then squander it for any reason at all. Some of us do what ever we can to get to play the game a little more and would do anything to have his opportunity, or any highly established player for that matter, to get to play this great game and push our skills as far as possible exploring everything that can be done this strategy game still has to offer. With nothing but the opportunity, time, money, and ambition to practice and improve? Sounds like a dream come true. Then just not caring and dropping it like marines on banelings...
I might be venting off more than just Naniwas incident about this type of topic but it does hurt to see these types of players in these advantageous positions for SC2 and just not caring while the rest of us sacrifice everything to play a few extra hours each day.
If someone doesn't enjoy playing StarCraft then why are they doing it. If someone does enjoy playing StarCraft then why aren't they doing it?
To be fair to Naniwa, he earned his position with hard work and skill. That's what makes the whole thing so tragic and infuriating, there's nothing worse than watching someone squander their talent.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
six months from now no one will remember hte details of any of the IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
No one will remember hte details of any of IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
Sponsors generally don't want to be attached to teams which are a laughing stock. "ALL PUBLICITY IS GOOD PUBLICITY" is usually an argument made by people that have never had to handle either.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
No one will remember hte details of any of IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
Sponsors generally don't want to be attached to teams which are a laughing stock. "ALL PUBLICITY IS GOOD PUBLICITY" is usually an argument made by people that have never had to handle either.
they won't they'll distance themselves from Naniwa "in the name of all that is righteous and good in esports".
Vince Mcmahon, Dana White and Don King handle it just fine.
On March 22 2014 03:40 OpTiKcoyote wrote: Couldn't keep quiet on this. It pisses me off when I see/hear such fortunate players that have achieved in some way sponsor ship to play the game (that some of us still love to death) full time as much as they want and then squander it for any reason at all. Some of us do what ever we can to get to play the game a little more and would do anything to have his opportunity, or any highly established player for that matter, to get to play this great game and push our skills as far as possible exploring everything that can be done this strategy game still has to offer. With nothing but the opportunity, time, money, and ambition to practice and improve? Sounds like a dream come true. Then just not caring and dropping it like marines on banelings...
I might be venting off more than just Naniwas incident about this type of topic but it does hurt to see these types of players in these advantageous positions for SC2 and just not caring while the rest of us sacrifice everything to play a few extra hours each day.
If someone doesn't enjoy playing StarCraft then why are they doing it. If someone does enjoy playing StarCraft then why aren't they doing it?
To be fair to Naniwa, he earned his position with hard work and skill. That's what makes the whole thing so tragic and infuriating, there's nothing worse than watching someone squander their talent.
I never said he didn't earn his skill. Everyone does that plays this game. It's one of the beauties of the game and Pro players opportunity. My frustration is that he had everything set (like many players) to get to play and push further in the game, and throws it away. An he has thrown it away again and again. I guess it's jealousy leaking out of me but damnit it just pisses me off to watch people do this that have this chance. To get to sit down work hard and compete and beat ProLeauge level players and further? Dream come true. Another player throwing it away. I'll shut up because I can see I'm becoming repetitive. Just damnit..
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
six months from now no one will remember hte details of any of the IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
No way. Alliance just wanted him to attend and represent the sponsors. Thinking this was planned for increased exposure is just tin foil hat nonsense. There is literally no evidence to back that up.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
six months from now no one will remember hte details of any of the IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
No way. Alliance just wanted him to attend and represent the sponsors. Thinking this was planned for increased exposure is just tin foil hat nonsense. There is literally no evidence to back that up.
it might have only been planned by Naniwa... hard to say. and if its planned properly there won't be any evidence because this is a simple caper to pull off. match fixing is much harder than this.
Everytime naniwa opens his mouth he comes out looking more like a little boy. "waah waaah I'm paid to do my job but I didn't want to". then resign like any grown up would do, otherwise STFU and do what you're paid to. I respect the skills but not the person. Not sure who I like less, him or idra. Either way good riddance.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
six months from now no one will remember hte details of any of the IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
I think the sponsors probably know better than you do, better than anyone and if the past is anything to go by they won't be glorifying this behaviour, they'll be doing the opposite.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
six months from now no one will remember hte details of any of the IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
No way. Alliance just wanted him to attend and represent the sponsors. Thinking this was planned for increased exposure is just tin foil hat nonsense. There is literally no evidence to back that up.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
six months from now no one will remember hte details of any of the IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
No way. Alliance just wanted him to attend and represent the sponsors. Thinking this was planned for increased exposure is just tin foil hat nonsense. There is literally no evidence to back that up.
i might have only been planned by Naniwa... hard to say. and if its planned properly there won't be any evidence because this is a simple caper to pull off. match fixing is much harder than this.
You need to watch less TV. No one plans to get fired in public and ruin theiir carreer. Life isn't that predictable and people like paychecks.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
It would also reflect badly on you, if you sent in a player that hadn't practiced for the tournament, in spite of him saying he couldn't. That is also very poor man-management. Professionalism goes both ways. Just like human understanding.
You say the management took full responsibility for it, shows the difference, does it not? Did you fire Crank for being unprofessional? Or did you know that eSport is a different level of professionalism, and told him to do better, as it reflects poorly on the both of you.
Maybe there is a difference in TotalBiscuit the businessman, and John Bain, the human being. I think so. And I think you would never have put one of your players in this situation.
Alliance doesn't have magic powers. Naniwa wasn't forced to go. He could have said no, but then he would have been released. So he went to IEM, pulled a nutty and got fired.
If you don't want to go, don't. If it gets you fired, deal with it. That's the problem, Naniwa wanted to not go and still be on alliance.
leads me to believe this thing is a work. Alliance gets to appear to be the knight in shining armour coming to defend all that is righteous and good. TotalBiscuit chimes in with his righteous indignation.
Don't tell me esports can't have Good Versus Evil. ROFLMAO.
Naniwa has already decided he is bored and leaving any way... so he gives an IEM RO16 match no one will ever forget. Had he forfeited without even appearing on stage then fine.. but nope.. he had to have his big dramatic exit.
six months from now no one will remember hte details of any of the IEM RO16 except for the Naniwa walk out.
Naniwa went out on his back and put over his team, IEM, and TotalBiscuit giving them more publicity then they'd even get if he just lost to Polt straight up. Naniwa continues his act as villian by lying about why he left.
wp Naniwa, wp i wonder how much his bonus cheque from Alliance will be for pulling this off.
No way. Alliance just wanted him to attend and represent the sponsors. Thinking this was planned for increased exposure is just tin foil hat nonsense. There is literally no evidence to back that up.
i might have only been planned by Naniwa... hard to say. and if its planned properly there won't be any evidence because this is a simple caper to pull off. match fixing is much harder than this.
You need to watch less TV. No one plans to get fired in public and ruin theiir carreer. Life isn't that predictable and people like paychecks.
WRONG i don't have cable. now you're reaching. "career" in what? sry man.. the pay cheques in SC2 are declining fast.
how many times did Testie get caught hacking only to be welcomed back as "the bad boy of Brood War"? countless times?
hacking your way to a Blizzcon invite is 10,000 times worse than what Naniwa did. if anything it increases his profile.
Well, with that i can hardly see any team wanting him if he wants to make a comeback.
I'm not the kind of guy who hates people (i support every player basically) but i don't really think a comeback would be good anyway. We can't blame him for acting like this, the game doesn't dictates how people are, but that doesn't mean we must support him at all costs.
nobody will ever pay this guy again what he "thinks" he deserves. The only way he will ever make money again in e-sports is through tournament earnings and streaming.
Thing is, Naniwa's reaction and overall sentiment is relatable on a purely emotional level. I too know what it means to be in a position where there's really no intrinsic joy to be had anymore. It's really easy to just say "eff this" and walk. Even if it means losing a paycheck. I've done it. I know others who have done it. At some point, making a statement and retaining one's dignity - as one defines it - becomes more important than being professional in spite of others not doing the same (whether true or in just one's head).
What I have to wonder, though, is where fan reactions factored into all of this, from Naniwa's point of view. He must understand, intellectually, that people wanted to see him play regardless of whether he won or lost or even played... meh-i-ly. There are people who, rightly or wrongly, think he's great, and his play brings them joy. So what would it have cost him to just play some fun games just for the sake of the fans. Their support thus far hasn't been worth the < 1 hour it would've taken to finish the series? That's the one thing I don't get.
Everything else I can relate to. But if people were cheering me on... well, that has currency with me.
On March 21 2014 19:35 JacobShock wrote: Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now, I just don't find it fun. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
Just want to requote this...I feel like this sums up the situation beautifully.
at least idra was actively involved in community with inside the game, state of the game, meta, and various other shows. he had exposure and brand value. all naniwa had was his skill, which is gone now and will continue to degrade. he has crap work ethic, zero accountability, and a toxic personality. no company in the real world would want to hire that kind of man child, let alone a team or sponsor for sc2.
On March 21 2014 19:35 JacobShock wrote: Today I called in at work and told my boss they should find a replacement for me today, because I don't really feel like working right now, I just don't find it fun. But he said there would be consequences if I didn't show up to do my job, so it almost forced me to show up. It's extremely funny and they should have known, because when I got at work, I did a half assed job and went home after an hour. After that I got fired, I know what you are thinking, weird right?
Shocking, that they can they fire someone for refusing to do what he was paid to do! Such insolence!
With a lot of contracts getting fired is better than quitting, from how much Stephano has to stream after retirement I think EG/Alliance is the same way.
On March 22 2014 00:08 -Celestial- wrote:So the simplest assumption is that they warned him that he'd be punished (likely financially) if he didn't go. And consequently he went (in hope of still getting paid? I don't know, speculating, there has to be SOME reason for him to have gone given that he clearly didn't want to be there).
Since we're speculating: what if the consequences weren't just "not getting paid" but also that he had to pay a substantial fine to the team? What if it said was basically: if you break this contract, you bind yourself to pay a fine of $100000. You still think he was "free to set his foot down"? Sometimes strings and ropes are invisible. And just as it was within the team's legal rights to push the contract to its limits, it was Nani's right to legally forfeit once he was on site. I doubt he had planned to forfeit, but the soundproof thing was the last drop that pushed him over the edge to do it anyway. In this theoretical scenario, he answered his team with the same coin. He pushed his legal rights.
I'm not saying the above is true, but since people here tend to speculate and then turn their own theories and assumptions into truth, I thought I would show an alternative theory.
Shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone, if anything I'm surprised we didn't hear it earlier. Although Naniwa seems surprised. I guess he still thinks that he's so good that he can do anything he wants without any repercussions. But that's not how it works. Turns out that when you're being sponsored you actually have to give your sponsors good publicity. TotalBiscuit summed it up pretty good back on page 17 and 19 I'd say.
I don't get why there's so many people trying to compare what Naniwa did with "worse" things that other players did. This guy obviously doesn't want to play Starcraft anymore, and he pissed on the community while announcing it. Blind Naniwa fans should wake up and accept that.
On March 22 2014 00:08 -Celestial- wrote:So the simplest assumption is that they warned him that he'd be punished (likely financially) if he didn't go. And consequently he went (in hope of still getting paid? I don't know, speculating, there has to be SOME reason for him to have gone given that he clearly didn't want to be there).
Since we're speculating: what if the consequences weren't just "not getting paid" but also that he had to pay a substantial fine to the team? What if it said was basically: if you break this contract, you bind yourself to pay a fine of $100000. You still think he was "free to set his foot down"? Sometimes strings and ropes are invisible. And just as it was within the team's legal rights to push the contract to its limits, it was Nani's right to legally forfeit once he was on site. I doubt he had planned to forfeit, but the soundproof thing was the last drop that pushed him over the edge to do it anyway. In this theoretical scenario, he answered his team with the same coin. He pushed his legal rights.
I'm not saying the above is true, but since people here tend to speculate and then turn their own theories and assumptions into truth, I thought I would show an alternative theory.
really? since when you can call it legal?
Lol, Is anybody suing him for forfeiting the series? I dont see anyone taking legal actions against Naniwa atm...
I would say that the reactions from the SC2 community and this whole twitterwar debacle (Kas etc) is just as damaging to the reputation of the industry as naniwas lack of professionalism.
Its like everyone is letting Naniwa drag them down to his level, without realizing it themselves. Just let this blow over and forget about it, all this hatemongering is depressing and makes the TL/SC2 Community look suprisingly immature.
Thank god Jokiwa got booted, hes attitude and the way he conducts himself isn't something we need in eSports. Best news i've heard in a very long time. Take a hike buddy.....
On March 22 2014 04:54 sc2holar wrote: I would say that the reactions from the SC2 community and this whole twitterwar debacle (Kas etc) is just as damaging to the reputation of the industry as naniwas lack of professionalism.
Its like everyone is letting Naniwa drag them down to his level, without realizing it themselves. Just let this blow over and forget about it, all this hatemongering is depressing and makes the TL/SC2 Community look suprisingly immature.
I completely agree with this. In the end, if someone is making a fool out of themselves and behaving like a moron, you should leave them to it, there's no need to kick a man while he's down in a puddle of mud, all you're going to do is get your shoes dirty.
I hate to admit this, but if what Naniwa is saying is true... Then he does have some legit reasons for earning that spot.... And he did want to give the spot away since he didn't want to play anymore.
You want to fire him? Fire him. He was unprofessional enough for long enough to justify terminating any sponsorship contracts. But telling him "there will be consequences" (if his words are to be believed) when he's retiring, that's also unprofessional. Just terminate contract (retirement) and get IEM to find someone else.
I don't defend Nani's forfeiture mid-series, but if I were in that position, I'd probably also be trying to force [A]/IEM's hand to avoid attending a tournament that I have no hope to win any prize in.
On March 22 2014 03:40 OpTiKcoyote wrote: Couldn't keep quiet on this. It pisses me off when I see/hear such fortunate players that have achieved in some way sponsor ship to play the game (that some of us still love to death) full time as much as they want and then squander it for any reason at all. Some of us do what ever we can to get to play the game a little more and would do anything to have his opportunity, or any highly established player for that matter, to get to play this great game and push our skills as far as possible exploring everything that can be done this strategy game still has to offer. With nothing but the opportunity, time, money, and ambition to practice and improve? Sounds like a dream come true. Then just not caring and dropping it like marines on banelings...
I might be venting off more than just Naniwas incident about this type of topic but it does hurt to see these types of players in these advantageous positions for SC2 and just not caring while the rest of us sacrifice everything to play a few extra hours each day.
If someone doesn't enjoy playing StarCraft then why are they doing it. If someone does enjoy playing StarCraft then why aren't they doing it?
To be fair to Naniwa, he earned his position with hard work and skill. That's what makes the whole thing so tragic and infuriating, there's nothing worse than watching someone squander their talent.
I never said he didn't earn his skill. Everyone does that plays this game. It's one of the beauties of the game and Pro players opportunity. My frustration is that he had everything set (like many players) to get to play and push further in the game, and throws it away. An he has thrown it away again and again. I guess it's jealousy leaking out of me but damnit it just pisses me off to watch people do this that have this chance. To get to sit down work hard and compete and beat ProLeauge level players and further? Dream come true. Another player throwing it away. I'll shut up because I can see I'm becoming repetitive. Just damnit..
How is he throwing things away?? I disagree on his behavior, but if he does not find enjoyment in the game anymore, it's his choice to stop and go back to school or do something with his life. SC2 is not some dream job, Esports is a rough and short lived career. How dare people get mad because someone chooses to leave. IdrA hated this game for longest time as well. Screw playing the game you hate just to please viewers. Again Naniwa choose the bad way to retire, people also need to remember he has legit mental issues.
It's more disgusting seeing people pick on someone who has a legit mental condition that affects his social skills with other people, it does not excuse what nani did, but the random internet hate on him is sick. Nani has the skill other players don't have, that's how he got himself to the top, aint no team or sponsor carried his way. If Nani had no team, his skill alone would still win him spots in tourneys.
Hasn't he said he's done with starcraft, if so, this is just what happens next, not sure what the big fuss is.
Also, if his explanation seems a bit whiny, it sounds as if he wants to still get paid even though he doesn't want to do his job anymore, if he actually didn't want to go to IEM, he could have simply retired officially and they couldn't of punished him legally, since any legal agreement would become void. Then IEM could also give his spot to a deserving player.
The post quoted by the TL staff at the beginning of this thread was from Naniwa's fanclub. Just before his post, we had discussed the theory that perhaps he was indeed forced to attend the tournament by contract. Nani's response felt more like a response to that topic, than a complaint about being kicked. I feel it got pulled a little bit out of context.
I like how straightforward he is about what he feels, even in a situation like this. I hope he wants to come back someday, but I realize that may not happen. Best of luck to ya in whatever you decide to do anyways!
On March 22 2014 03:40 OpTiKcoyote wrote: Couldn't keep quiet on this. It pisses me off when I see/hear such fortunate players that have achieved in some way sponsor ship to play the game (that some of us still love to death) full time as much as they want and then squander it for any reason at all. Some of us do what ever we can to get to play the game a little more and would do anything to have his opportunity, or any highly established player for that matter, to get to play this great game and push our skills as far as possible exploring everything that can be done this strategy game still has to offer. With nothing but the opportunity, time, money, and ambition to practice and improve? Sounds like a dream come true. Then just not caring and dropping it like marines on banelings...
I might be venting off more than just Naniwas incident about this type of topic but it does hurt to see these types of players in these advantageous positions for SC2 and just not caring while the rest of us sacrifice everything to play a few extra hours each day.
If someone doesn't enjoy playing StarCraft then why are they doing it. If someone does enjoy playing StarCraft then why aren't they doing it?
To be fair to Naniwa, he earned his position with hard work and skill. That's what makes the whole thing so tragic and infuriating, there's nothing worse than watching someone squander their talent.
I never said he didn't earn his skill. Everyone does that plays this game. It's one of the beauties of the game and Pro players opportunity. My frustration is that he had everything set (like many players) to get to play and push further in the game, and throws it away. An he has thrown it away again and again. I guess it's jealousy leaking out of me but damnit it just pisses me off to watch people do this that have this chance. To get to sit down work hard and compete and beat ProLeauge level players and further? Dream come true. Another player throwing it away. I'll shut up because I can see I'm becoming repetitive. Just damnit..
How is he throwing things away?? I disagree on his behavior, but if he does not find enjoyment in the game anymore, it's his choice to stop and go back to school or do something with his life. SC2 is not some dream job, Esports is a rough and short lived career. How dare people get mad because someone chooses to leave. IdrA hated this game for longest time as well. Screw playing the game you hate just to please viewers. Again Naniwa choose the bad way to retire, people also need to remember he has legit mental issues.
It's more disgusting seeing people pick on someone who has a legit mental condition that affects his social skills with other people, it does not excuse what nani did, but the random internet hate on him is sick. Nani has the skill other players don't have, that's how he got himself to the top, aint no team or sponsor carried his way. If Nani had no team, his skill alone would still win him spots in tourneys.
I saw this in some previous posts, likely yours in another thread. Mind if I ask for a source?
To be fair to Naniwa, he earned his position with hard work and skill. That's what makes the whole thing so tragic and infuriating, there's nothing worse than watching someone squander their talent.
That is precisely what I find very sad in this whole story: knowing that Nani has so much talent and he's wasting it cause of his attitude. I'm not talking only about SC2 here, but what will happen next to the kid. Who is defending Nani's actions here is doing him a disservice not a favor. People close to him and supporting him must make him understand that he's the one who is going to suffer the most from his actions, not Alliance, not SC2, not the esport scene.
When did it become fair game to openly bash and hate on players? I once got a temp ban for being overly critical of Ret for playing econ cheese in a tournament. Now it seems like namecalling and hatemongering is fair game.
This community sure has changed alot. Those who spew hatred at Naniwa for his lack of manners might want to take a look at their own behavior and how it reflects the community as a whole...
On March 22 2014 05:35 sc2holar wrote: When did it become fair game to openly bash and hate on players? I once got a temp ban for being overly critical of Ret for playing econ cheese in a tournament. Now it seems like namecalling and hatemongering is fair game.
This community sure has changed alot. Those who spew hatred at Naniwa for his lack of manners might want to take a look at their own behavior and how it reflects the community as a whole...
you must be new to the internet jk jk....truthfully this is how most communities end up. They older they are the more bitter they become
On March 22 2014 05:35 sc2holar wrote: When did it become fair game to openly bash and hate on players? I once got a temp ban for being overly critical of Ret for playing econ cheese in a tournament. Now it seems like namecalling and hatemongering is fair game.
This community sure has changed alot. Those who spew hatred at Naniwa for his lack of manners might want to take a look at their own behavior and how it reflects the community as a whole...
TeamLiquid has become more mainstream than battle.net forums, TL is not nearly as moderated as it was a few years ago, used to be heavily moderated. I see so much disgusting crap being said on these forums. Seems like bashing on certain people became ok these days. People don't need to resort to straight up hate if they don't like a behavior of a player, they can be more constructive with it.
it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
To be fair to Naniwa, he earned his position with hard work and skill. That's what makes the whole thing so tragic and infuriating, there's nothing worse than watching someone squander their talent.
That is precisely what I find very sad in this whole story: knowing that Nani has so much talent and he's wasting it cause of his attitude. I'm not talking only about SC2 here, but what will happen next to the kid. Who is defending Nani's actions here is doing him a disservice not a favor. People close to him and supporting him must make him understand that he's the one who is going to suffer the most from his actions, not Alliance, not SC2, not the esport scene.
actually, you aren't doing him a favor by not minding your own business and trying to 'teach/control' him to be the way you want him to be. contrary to what everyone thinks, he will be fine, at least by his standards, and that should allow TL forumers to get off his dick.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
because he could've said no, stuck to that and gotten fired (or gave his resignation) instead of saying no, still going, pulling what he did off then getting fired lol.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
I don't know, like, this might be far-fetched and all, but maybe because they are writing Naniwa's pay check and are expecting something in return?
To be fair to Naniwa, he earned his position with hard work and skill. That's what makes the whole thing so tragic and infuriating, there's nothing worse than watching someone squander their talent.
That is precisely what I find very sad in this whole story: knowing that Nani has so much talent and he's wasting it cause of his attitude. I'm not talking only about SC2 here, but what will happen next to the kid. Who is defending Nani's actions here is doing him a disservice not a favor. People close to him and supporting him must make him understand that he's the one who is going to suffer the most from his actions, not Alliance, not SC2, not the esport scene.
actually, you aren't doing him a favor by not minding your own business and trying to 'teach/control' him to be the way you want him to be. contrary to what everyone thinks, he will be fine, at least by his standards, and that should allow TL forumers to get off his dick.
I'm politely expressing my opinion which I'm entitled to and, last time I checked, is also allowed. I don't know him personally, so claiming that I'm trying to "teach/control" someone I have never even met is, frankly, ridiculous.
If he doesn't like it, he is free to quit. But if he doesn't quit and acts the way he did, they can fire him.
Nobody can *FORCE* you to go play at IEM. As in physically force.
Perhaps he had something in his contract that said he was liable for $X if he didn't go. So he was "forced" to go if he didn't want to pay a fine or get sued etc.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
I don't know, like, this might be far-fetched and all, but maybe because they are writing Naniwa's pay check and are expecting something in return?
That is a fair point, but it was no secret that Naniwa had already semi-retired and stopped playing months before the event. There is no way Naniwa was going to bring much in returns, that was an obvious fact.
Also, other players such as Stephano have forfeited tournament spots on multiple occasions.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
because he could've said no, stuck to that and gotten fired (or gave his resignation) instead of saying no, still going, pulling what he did off then getting fired lol.
i addressed that by saying that i understand blaming nani. but who would actually not blame the team and put it soley on naniwa?
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
because he could've said no, stuck to that and gotten fired (or gave his resignation) instead of saying no, still going, pulling what he did off then getting fired lol.
i addressed that by saying that i understand blaming nani. but who would actually not blame the team and put it soley on naniwa?
blame can always be spread around but as mentioned, he signed the contract and he can't be forced to go if he is that adamant on not going. Either way, posts above addressed this point better.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
Proffesional athletes are not obliged to participate in every competition they are qualified for. Being a Pro gamer is not like working at McDonalds or Wall-Mart.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
No, they're just invulnerable to dumb criticism. If you only want to go to events of your choosing, then don't sign a contract with a team.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
Proffesional athletes are not obliged to participate in every competition they are qualified for. Being a Pro gamer is not like working at McDonalds or Wall-Mart.
Depends on specification in a contract i think..
I don't think the problem is him not wanting to go. The point is more that he misbehaved (at least according to the audience, many people online and the team) while he was there. If he really couldn't be forced, he shouldn't have gone if he had reasons not to. If he had an obligation to go, he should've made the best of it. By dishonouring himself (in my view) he shamed his team and thus their sponsor. The decision to let him go seems natural to me.
for all ppl saying alliance forced him : he didnt went for last 4 lans so basicaly he was " if he was " recieving salary for nothing . no lan representation no streaming nothing . not how things work in real life .
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
Proffesional athletes are not obliged to participate in every competition they are qualified for. Being a Pro gamer is not like working at McDonalds or Wall-Mart.
Depends on specification in a contract i think..
I don't think the problem is him not wanting to go. The point is more that he misbehaved (at least according to the audience, many people online and the team) while he was there. If he really couldn't be forced, he shouldn't have gone if he had reasons not to. If he had an obligation to go, he should've made the best of it. By dishonouring himself (in my view) he shamed his team and thus their sponsor. The decision to let him go seems natural to me.
I dont think anyone is blaming Alliance for Naniwas behaviour during IEM. In fact, judging from the responses in this thread, It seems like their reputation has blown through the roof for their decision to fire Naniwa.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
I don't know, like, this might be far-fetched and all, but maybe because they are writing Naniwa's pay check and are expecting something in return?
They don't have to pay him for going to IEM if he doesn't go to IEM. They can release him from his contract if he breaches the terms. If it wasn't in the terms, that's management's fault. He publicly stated that he hadn't practiced in over a month and there was no reason for him to be there. Why would the team try to force him to play when he obviously wouldn't represent them well at all and probably talk about how they forced him to go there? I'm a bit amazed at the people running Alliance. They sound like stupid people to me.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
I don't know, like, this might be far-fetched and all, but maybe because they are writing Naniwa's pay check and are expecting something in return?
That is a fair point, but it was no secret that Naniwa had already semi-retired and stopped playing months before the event. There is no way Naniwa was going to bring much in returns, that was an obvious fact.
Also, other players such as Stephano have forfeited tournament spots on multiple occasions.
Did he also stop accepting paychecks months before the event?
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
No, they're just invulnerable to dumb criticism. If you only want to go to events of your choosing, then don't sign a contract with a team.
Players decide to skip tournaments all the time. For example Stardust decided not to go to IEM NY last year because he couldn't win enough points to qualify for Blizzcon. I don't remember there being a shitstorm about that.
lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
Proffesional athletes are not obliged to participate in every competition they are qualified for. Being a Pro gamer is not like working at McDonalds or Wall-Mart.
Depends on specification in a contract i think..
I don't think the problem is him not wanting to go. The point is more that he misbehaved (at least according to the audience, many people online and the team) while he was there. If he really couldn't be forced, he shouldn't have gone if he had reasons not to. If he had an obligation to go, he should've made the best of it. By dishonouring himself (in my view) he shamed his team and thus their sponsor. The decision to let him go seems natural to me.
I dont think anyone is blaming Alliance for Naniwas behaviour during IEM. In fact, judging from the responses in this thread, It seems like their reputation has blown through the roof for their decision to fire Naniwa.
Compliments on an obvious decision are pretty shallow i think. If there is nothing else to complement this, the reputational effect (if it even exists) will fade away pretty quickly.
On March 22 2014 06:24 fishjie wrote: lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
As mentioned above, players skip tournaments all the time (without having to retire or leave their teams), but for some reason Naniwa was not allowed to. This is not like a regular job.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
While this logic probably would not fly well in my field of business, it worked out just fine for Stardust @ IEM NY and Stephano has turned down tournaments on multiple occasions because he didnt feel like playing. Stop with the silly comparisons already.
On March 22 2014 06:24 fishjie wrote: lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
As mentioned above, players skip tournaments all the time (without having to retire or leave their teams), but for some reason Naniwa was not allowed to. This is not like a regular job.
Team paying Naniwa to give them exposure and exposure to sponsors. Team says Naniwa needs to go. When an employer tells you what you need to do, as an employee you have three choices:
a) do it b) negotiate and explain why doing some different option is better. if they don't agree then either do a or c c) don't do it and get fired
naniwa chose c and got fired.
As for other players not going to tourneys, this is stuff that would be discussed behind the scenes with their employers so not a big deal. In this situation the people who pay naniwa requests his services and he did not deliver and was justly terminated.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
On March 22 2014 06:24 fishjie wrote: lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
As mentioned above, players skip tournaments all the time (without having to retire or leave their teams), but for some reason Naniwa was not allowed to. This is not like a regular job.
Team paying Naniwa to give them exposure and exposure to sponsors. Team says Naniwa needs to go. When an employer tells you what you need to do, as an employee you have three choices:
a) do it b) negotiate and explain why doing some different option is better. if they don't agree then either do a or c c) don't do it and get fired
naniwa chose c and got fired.
As for other players not going to tourneys, this is stuff that would be discussed behind the scenes with their employers so not a big deal. In this situation the people who pay naniwa requests his services and he did not deliver and was justly terminated.
On March 22 2014 06:24 fishjie wrote: lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
As mentioned above, players skip tournaments all the time (without having to retire or leave their teams), but for some reason Naniwa was not allowed to. This is not like a regular job.
ya players skip cause their teams were ok with it, alliance was not ok with this one and that's well within their rights. you're under contract, and you do what the team tells you to do. if they think oh this tournament is very important for the team, then ya they're gonna tell you to go. if you dont like being told which tournament that you have to go to, you can quit, just like any job out there.
On March 22 2014 06:24 fishjie wrote: lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
As mentioned above, players skip tournaments all the time (without having to retire or leave their teams), but for some reason Naniwa was not allowed to. This is not like a regular job.
Team paying Naniwa to give them exposure and exposure to sponsors. Team says Naniwa needs to go. When an employer tells you what you need to do, as an employee you have three choices:
a) do it b) negotiate and explain why doing some different option is better. if they don't agree then either do a or c c) don't do it and get fired
naniwa chose c and got fired.
As for other players not going to tourneys, this is stuff that would be discussed behind the scenes with their employers so not a big deal. In this situation the people who pay naniwa requests his services and he did not deliver and was justly terminated.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
On March 22 2014 06:24 fishjie wrote: lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
As mentioned above, players skip tournaments all the time (without having to retire or leave their teams), but for some reason Naniwa was not allowed to. This is not like a regular job.
Team paying Naniwa to give them exposure and exposure to sponsors. Team says Naniwa needs to go. When an employer tells you what you need to do, as an employee you have three choices:
a) do it b) negotiate and explain why doing some different option is better. if they don't agree then either do a or c c) don't do it and get fired
naniwa chose c and got fired.
As for other players not going to tourneys, this is stuff that would be discussed behind the scenes with their employers so not a big deal. In this situation the people who pay naniwa requests his services and he did not deliver and was justly terminated.
Actually, he chose A. he did go to IEM you know.
REALLY? That's your response?????
Yes, Really. He went to IEM and forfeited his first series - wich is his right as a participant. Alliance responded by releasing him from, the team, as is their right. So what is there to discuss really? Now put that in your pipe and smoke it, Mister.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
This is kind of strange from my perspective because usually people get upset and rage when they are invested in something (e.g. idrA), but he talks like he just didn't care at all so why get worked up about losing?
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
Yeah, that is pretty much how contracts work in this business. When a player performs during a tournament, they get paid. When they turn down a tournament (wich again, HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE) they dont get paid for that particular tournament. Its pretty simple and logical.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
Yeah, that is pretty much how contracts work in this business. When a player performs during a tournament, they get paid. When they turn down a tournament (wich again, HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE) they dont get paid for that particular tournament. Its pretty simple and logical.
Really? So you have no problem finding tons of example of players retiring and then renegotiate the contract to say that the player wont play and the team will not pay him?
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
Yeah, that is pretty much how contracts work in this business. When a player performs during a tournament, they get paid. When they turn down a tournament (wich again, HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE) they dont get paid for that particular tournament. Its pretty simple and logical.
Really? So you have no problem finding tons of example of players retiring and then renegotiate the contract to say that the player wont play and the team will not pay him?
Examples: Stephano, Stardust. They didnt have to retire or renegotiate, they just missed out on a potential payment by chosing to not go to a tournament. E-sport Contracts are more flexible than you seem to think.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
Yeah, that is pretty much how contracts work in this business. When a player performs during a tournament, they get paid. When they turn down a tournament (wich again, HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE) they dont get paid for that particular tournament. Its pretty simple and logical.
Really? So you have no problem finding tons of example of players retiring and then renegotiate the contract to say that the player wont play and the team will not pay him?
Examples: Stephano, Stardust. They didnt have to retire or renegotiate, they just missed out on a potential payment by chosing to not go to a tournament. E-sport Contracts are more flexible than you seem to think.
Lucifron went back to his studies. If he decides to play again he is still on mouz.
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
That's not a point. We know what arrangements they could come to because we know which one they did come to. They would keep a narcesistic man-child on a retainer without him fullfilling any purpose in the hope he might get back to the game after all the shit he pulled? Nobody would do that, including Alliance.
If anyone cares about Naniwa after this I'm gonna be really sad on theri behalf. Wheather or not he ever comes back.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
Yeah, that is pretty much how contracts work in this business. When a player performs during a tournament, they get paid. When they turn down a tournament (wich again, HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE) they dont get paid for that particular tournament. Its pretty simple and logical.
Really? So you have no problem finding tons of example of players retiring and then renegotiate the contract to say that the player wont play and the team will not pay him?
Examples: Stephano, Stardust. They didnt have to retire or renegotiate, they just missed out on a potential payment by chosing to not go to a tournament. E-sport Contracts are more flexible than you seem to think.
Stephano is still playing? Unless I have been dreaming his stream. Stardusts situation I have no clue about so I wont commentate. Naniwa quit the actual game, he didn't quit tournaments, he quit the game.
On March 22 2014 05:59 Ravomat wrote: [quote] I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
Yeah, that is pretty much how contracts work in this business. When a player performs during a tournament, they get paid. When they turn down a tournament (wich again, HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE) they dont get paid for that particular tournament. Its pretty simple and logical.
Really? So you have no problem finding tons of example of players retiring and then renegotiate the contract to say that the player wont play and the team will not pay him?
Examples: Stephano, Stardust. They didnt have to retire or renegotiate, they just missed out on a potential payment by chosing to not go to a tournament. E-sport Contracts are more flexible than you seem to think.
Stephano is still playing? Unless I have been dreaming his stream. Stardusts situation I have no clue about so I wont commentate. Naniwa quit the actual game, he didn't quit tournaments, he quit the game.
Wich is why he didnt want to go to IEM, and why it never made sense to force him to go. Get it?
On March 22 2014 05:44 aldochillbro wrote: it's terrible that anyone is defending the team in this situation. I get blaming nani, but how can anyone defend that pretty much forced one of their players to get on a plane and play in a tournament that he didn't want to be in? in a scene that gets butthurt about...everything, how come his team is taking less of the blame?
It's his fucking job.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
That's not a point. We know what arrangements they could come to because we know which one they did come to. They would keep a narcesistic man-child on a retainer without him fullfilling any purpose in the hope he might get back to the game after all the shit he pulled? Nobody would do that, including Alliance.
If anyone cares about Naniwa after this I'm gonna be really sad on theri behalf. Wheather or not he ever comes back.
You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder about Naniwa. If you don't think there is a third option, that's fine.
There's no doubt that the option Alliance went through with resulted in absolutely nothing of value gained and a potential asset lost.
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
Yeah, that is pretty much how contracts work in this business. When a player performs during a tournament, they get paid. When they turn down a tournament (wich again, HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE) they dont get paid for that particular tournament. Its pretty simple and logical.
Really? So you have no problem finding tons of example of players retiring and then renegotiate the contract to say that the player wont play and the team will not pay him?
Examples: Stephano, Stardust. They didnt have to retire or renegotiate, they just missed out on a potential payment by chosing to not go to a tournament. E-sport Contracts are more flexible than you seem to think.
Stephano is still playing? Unless I have been dreaming his stream. Stardusts situation I have no clue about so I wont commentate. Naniwa quit the actual game, he didn't quit tournaments, he quit the game.
Wich is why he didnt want to go to IEM, and why it never made sense to force him to go. Get it?
They didn't force him, his option was to do his job or be fired. He's choice was to go throw a tantrum and then lie about soundproofing, blame his team for "forcing" him, basiclly acting like a major dick.
I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
That's not a point. We know what arrangements they could come to because we know which one they did come to. They would keep a narcesistic man-child on a retainer without him fullfilling any purpose in the hope he might get back to the game after all the shit he pulled? Nobody would do that, including Alliance.
If anyone cares about Naniwa after this I'm gonna be really sad on theri behalf. Wheather or not he ever comes back.
You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder about Naniwa. If you don't think there is a third option, that's fine.
There's no doubt that the option Alliance went through with resulted in absolutely nothing of value gained and a potential asset lost.
No, Naniwa is unimportant, what does anoy me is the people who somehow manage to twist someone deciding to quit his job but still want's to get payed choses to go to his work place, disgrace himself and then blame everyone else for his own decisions into something justifiable. I do expect there to be dicks in the world and I'm fine with that, I did not, however, expect people to sympathise with them..
On March 22 2014 05:59 Ravomat wrote: [quote] I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
That's not a point. We know what arrangements they could come to because we know which one they did come to. They would keep a narcesistic man-child on a retainer without him fullfilling any purpose in the hope he might get back to the game after all the shit he pulled? Nobody would do that, including Alliance.
If anyone cares about Naniwa after this I'm gonna be really sad on theri behalf. Wheather or not he ever comes back.
You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder about Naniwa. If you don't think there is a third option, that's fine.
There's no doubt that the option Alliance went through with resulted in absolutely nothing of value gained and a potential asset lost.
No, Naniwa is unimportant, what does anoy me is the people who somehow manage to twist someone deciding to quit his job but still want's to get payed choses to go to his work place, disgrace himself and then blame everyone else for his own decisions into something justifiable. I do expect there to be dicks in the world and I'm fine with that, I did not, however, expect people to sympathise with them..
Now you are the one twisting things. Naniwa said in his statement that he doesnt actually care. He is not whining about not getting paid anymore.
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
That's not a point. We know what arrangements they could come to because we know which one they did come to. They would keep a narcesistic man-child on a retainer without him fullfilling any purpose in the hope he might get back to the game after all the shit he pulled? Nobody would do that, including Alliance.
If anyone cares about Naniwa after this I'm gonna be really sad on theri behalf. Wheather or not he ever comes back.
You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder about Naniwa. If you don't think there is a third option, that's fine.
There's no doubt that the option Alliance went through with resulted in absolutely nothing of value gained and a potential asset lost.
No, Naniwa is unimportant, what does anoy me is the people who somehow manage to twist someone deciding to quit his job but still want's to get payed choses to go to his work place, disgrace himself and then blame everyone else for his own decisions into something justifiable. I do expect there to be dicks in the world and I'm fine with that, I did not, however, expect people to sympathise with them..
Now you are the one twisting things. Naniwa said in his statement that he doesnt actually care. He is not whining about not getting paid anymore.
And after him lying about soundprofing and throwing a tantrum you will take his word for this? If he didn't care, then why did he go to the tournament, why not just quit?
On March 22 2014 05:59 Ravomat wrote: [quote] I'm amazed by your tone. So just because [A] dishes out some cash they are invulnerable to criticism?
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
That's not a point. We know what arrangements they could come to because we know which one they did come to. They would keep a narcesistic man-child on a retainer without him fullfilling any purpose in the hope he might get back to the game after all the shit he pulled? Nobody would do that, including Alliance.
If anyone cares about Naniwa after this I'm gonna be really sad on theri behalf. Wheather or not he ever comes back.
You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder about Naniwa. If you don't think there is a third option, that's fine.
There's no doubt that the option Alliance went through with resulted in absolutely nothing of value gained and a potential asset lost.
No, Naniwa is unimportant, what does anoy me is the people who somehow manage to twist someone deciding to quit his job but still want's to get payed choses to go to his work place, disgrace himself and then blame everyone else for his own decisions into something justifiable. I do expect there to be dicks in the world and I'm fine with that, I did not, however, expect people to sympathise with them..
I'm not really justifying anything. I think the outcome we ended up with is the worst one, entirely on Naniwa's shoulders (and he seems to agree that his actions caused his team's reaction). I argue that maybe, without further information, we could've had a situation where Alliance can still get value from Naniwa in the future in exchange for the trainwreck we got this week.
On March 22 2014 07:19 Zeze wrote: what does anoy me is the people who somehow manage to twist someone deciding to quit his job but still want's to get payed choses to go to his work place, disgrace himself and then blame everyone else for his own decisions into something justifiable.
Excuse me, where on earth did Naniwa express that he still wanted to get paid? Source please.
Do you use this logic with your employer? Just because you pay me you can't expect me to work?
He had a job to do which he didn't want to, there is two acceptable options, you quit your job or you do it. Acting like a child and then blaming everyone else for your choices, including lying about soundproofing, is not anything but stupid.
Why are people still comparing this to traditional jobs where you put the fries in the basket or hit the road?
There is OBVIOUSLY a third option where Alliance and Naniwa come to an agreement to not participate in IEM, perhaps over a contract renegotiation in order to better serve Alliance's interests and Naniwa's (i.e. pay Naniwa less).
Because this is a traditional job, unless you can explain why it is not?
Why would they pay him when he has stated that he won't play anymore? Out of charity? Your third option is that a competetiv team take on someone as a charity chase? Why?
I didn't say anywhere that they'd pay him even at all. I just merely stated that contract renegotiation while Naniwa sorts himself out was an option people keep ignoring.
I don't know how to explain to you how this is different from a job that requires you to do strict labor.
So he didnt wan't to do his job and you don't necessarly think they should pay him to do the job he wasnt doing, then why would they negotiate a contract? How do you imagin that going down? "Hi, I don't want to work" "Ok so we won't pay you" "Fine" "Good sign here"?
You can't explain why it's different yet you mantain that it is? If you have a opinion you should be able to argue in it's favour, if you can't, maybe you should reconsider the opinion?
They would negotiate a contract because Naniwa is still a valuable asset even if he's in a blackout period.
My whole point is none of us know the full scope of potential arrangements Naniwa and Alliance could've come to. It's very possible to keep Naniwa on the backburner after he explained he doesn't want to play anymore, but expects to find a reignited passion in X months.
If they dump him and in 2 months Naniwa goes on a tear and decides to start owning again, they've lost that potential.
That's not a point. We know what arrangements they could come to because we know which one they did come to. They would keep a narcesistic man-child on a retainer without him fullfilling any purpose in the hope he might get back to the game after all the shit he pulled? Nobody would do that, including Alliance.
If anyone cares about Naniwa after this I'm gonna be really sad on theri behalf. Wheather or not he ever comes back.
You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder about Naniwa. If you don't think there is a third option, that's fine.
There's no doubt that the option Alliance went through with resulted in absolutely nothing of value gained and a potential asset lost.
No, Naniwa is unimportant, what does anoy me is the people who somehow manage to twist someone deciding to quit his job but still want's to get payed choses to go to his work place, disgrace himself and then blame everyone else for his own decisions into something justifiable. I do expect there to be dicks in the world and I'm fine with that, I did not, however, expect people to sympathise with them..
I'm not really justifying anything. I think the outcome we ended up with is the worst one, entirely on Naniwa's shoulders (and he seems to agree that his actions caused his team's reaction). I argue that maybe, without further information, we could've had a situation where Alliance can still get value from Naniwa in the future in exchange for the trainwreck we got this week.
That's a enternal posibility with everyone though, by that logic they would have to sign the entire world population. You can't run a bussnis on what ifs..
But since we seem to agree on the main point I won argue over details.
On March 22 2014 07:19 Zeze wrote: what does anoy me is the people who somehow manage to twist someone deciding to quit his job but still want's to get payed choses to go to his work place, disgrace himself and then blame everyone else for his own decisions into something justifiable.
Excuse me, where on earth did Naniwa express that he still wanted to get paid? Source please.
Source would be logic. Why would you want to stay on a team you feel are forcing you to do something you dont want to do if not for the money?
On March 22 2014 06:24 fishjie wrote: lol what i want to wonder is how old are these ppl defending naniwa and have they ever held a job in their lives. its not a hard concept to grasp - you get paid to do x, you do x. if you don't want to, you get fired. simple.
naniwa trying to act like a victim by being "forced" to do his job? only someone who is currently unemployed (and hence wouldn't understand concepts such as professionalism) would buy that line of reasoning
As mentioned above, players skip tournaments all the time (without having to retire or leave their teams), but for some reason Naniwa was not allowed to. This is not like a regular job.
Team paying Naniwa to give them exposure and exposure to sponsors. Team says Naniwa needs to go. When an employer tells you what you need to do, as an employee you have three choices:
a) do it b) negotiate and explain why doing some different option is better. if they don't agree then either do a or c c) don't do it and get fired
naniwa chose c and got fired.
As for other players not going to tourneys, this is stuff that would be discussed behind the scenes with their employers so not a big deal. In this situation the people who pay naniwa requests his services and he did not deliver and was justly terminated.
Actually, he chose A. he did go to IEM you know.
not really. he was supposed to compete at IEM, bringing in positive exposure to alliance and its sponsors. Instead he did a bad job. see in the real corporate world, usually if your employer asks you to do something and you do a shitty job, you get fired. this is especially true if you cost the company money. naniwa's actions brought negative exposure to the team and sponsors, hence FIRED. naniwa didnt need to win his match against polt, he just needed to put on a good show and make some semblance of effort.
seriously, have any of you naniwa defenders worked at a job ever? how do you not understand how this stuff works. i feel sorry for when you guys enter the real world.
God I really wanted to be happy for him but the way he said that he could come back and be the best foreigner with two weeks of practice...still the same old Naniwa til the end.
Overall what bothers me is all this speculation. Does anyone actually know what happened between Naniwa, Alliance and their sponsors? I highly doubt it and we will most likely never know all of the truth. Do we even know that Naniwa was receiving paychecks before IEM?
best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
TL named him best foreigner in the TL awards 2914....
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
TL named him best foreigner in the TL awards 2914....
I don't think even Naniwa can live that long, nor can Waxangel see that far into the future.
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
I must admit, that's a nice troll dude, I almost fell for it
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
TL named him best foreigner in the TL awards 2914....
I don't think even Naniwa can live that long, nor can Waxangel see that far into the future.
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
Naniwa has won 2 premier tournaments and he was the only foreigner to make it to Blizzcon last year, which means he had the most WCS points last year as a foreigner. He is also one of the few foreigners to make it to GSL round of 8, which he did two times. Stephano never made it past round of 32.
You can hate Naniwa all you want. I have never been huge fan of him and I used to hope he would just lose, but he kept winning and proved himself as the best foreign protoss. He definitely is not the best right now, but you got to give this guy credit for what he has accomplished as a player.
What a deluded fool...the arrogance is breathtaking. Nani - where will you be in 10 years dude? I'm worried and I don't even know (or like) your progaming persona.
GL to you man, cos we all know you're gonna need it.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Did Ryung ever get in trouble internally or externally for his Imba frustrations against Sniper in the GSL RO4 or not? Just asking out of curiosity.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Did Ryung ever get in trouble internally or externally for his Imba frustrations against Sniper in the GSL RO4 or not? Just asking out of curiosity.
TB bought Ryung dinner at the Cheesecake Factory for that from what I remember.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Did Ryung ever get in trouble internally or externally for his Imba frustrations against Sniper in the GSL RO4 or not? Just asking out of curiosity.
He was sanctioned by GOM, Mr Chae personally expressed his disappointment directly to Ryung for his behavior. The tweet was obviously a joke as I hope everyone realised. Pretty much the opposite of a forfeit though, Ryung played his heart out.
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
Sase has won one series against a Korean in the latter half of 2013/2014, and it was against Daisy, whose overall win rate is under 50%. What?
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Did Ryung ever get in trouble internally or externally for his Imba frustrations against Sniper in the GSL RO4 or not? Just asking out of curiosity.
He was sanctioned by GOM, Mr Chae personally expressed his disappointment directly to Ryung for his behavior. The tweet was obviously a joke as I hope everyone realised. Pretty much the opposite of a forfeit though, Ryung played his heart out.
The cheese cake factory is no joke. It could take him days to recover. So much dairy. The number of options on the menu alone can cause a brain aneurysm.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Did Ryung ever get in trouble internally or externally for his Imba frustrations against Sniper in the GSL RO4 or not? Just asking out of curiosity.
He was sanctioned by GOM, Mr Chae personally expressed his disappointment directly to Ryung for his behavior. The tweet was obviously a joke as I hope everyone realised. Pretty much the opposite of a forfeit though, Ryung played his heart out.
On December 01 2012 15:48 Zealot Lord wrote: the interesting thing is, pretty sure that if Ryung got a fine, a good majority of the community would raise money to pay it for him lol xD
If RyunG got fined I'd pay for it myself without hesitation. As a sponsor I'd rather the players I pay speak their minds, it represents my company well, since we built it on exactly that.
There's nothing professional about the kid, so there isn't much use to having him on a pro team. Kid's got talent, but you don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close.
So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
Did Ryung ever get in trouble internally or externally for his Imba frustrations against Sniper in the GSL RO4 or not? Just asking out of curiosity.
He was sanctioned by GOM, Mr Chae personally expressed his disappointment directly to Ryung for his behavior. The tweet was obviously a joke as I hope everyone realised. Pretty much the opposite of a forfeit though, Ryung played his heart out.
On December 01 2012 15:48 Zealot Lord wrote: the interesting thing is, pretty sure that if Ryung got a fine, a good majority of the community would raise money to pay it for him lol xD
If RyunG got fined I'd pay for it myself without hesitation. As a sponsor I'd rather the players I pay speak their minds, it represents my company well, since we built it on exactly that.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
I love how people desperately try to defend his actions!
And they always have a Swedish nationality.
Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
It's hard not to notice that almost all of his followers on this site have the swedish tag, that naniwa almost always specifically thanks swedish fans as if others aren't worthy of him, and that there is always some excuse related to sweden on his pathetic actions. Sorry that generalising happens, but unfortunately it does.
lol when has he thanked only his swedish fans? I've never seen anything like that happen. He is swedish, so feeling a special connection to those fans is pretty normal? There are plenty of NaNiwa fans that aren't swedish, and their are plenty of douche bags like you that aren't Australian. But if I wanted to generalize, I could say, "it's not hard to notice that most of the extreme douche bags seem to have an Australia tag". Just because people "generalize" doesn't mean it's right, or that everyone should do it. You are condemning someone for acting like 6 year old, and then you come on here and post things that make you seem like an immature little kid. How ironic.
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
I don't know why everyone expects Professional SC2 players to be "role-models" or the standard for how people should behave. Look at professional athletes in any sport and the reason they are paid money to play a sport is because of their talent on the field. Shit Ray Lewis played football and will probably be in the hall of fame even though he went to trial for murder. There are plenty of shitty people that turn out to be good at a sport, and the same thing is true in SC2.
Even so, I doubt forfeiting his spot at IEM is sole reason he is kicked off the team. Once you're no longer bringing in the gains you normally were, which NaNiwa isn't since he hasn't practiced and is taking a break from the game, the things you do that are a detriment to the sponsors and the team is no longer worth it to put up with. So it's pretty understandable that he was kicked off.
And everyone who seems to be the ultimate judge of morality and life lessons, like really? Who cares, people cheered for NaNiwa because he was good at SC2, not because he's this stand up guy or such a good person. That much is pretty obvious.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote: best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys.
Sase has won one series against a Korean in the latter half of 2013/2014, and it was against Daisy, whose overall win rate is under 50%. What?
I also want to point out that sase hasnt won any first prize titles in the year 2013, and I personally believe that coming to Taiwan was a detriment to his career. He was only able to compete in 4 or 5 offline events in TW and CN since the end of 2012.
Something is seriously wrong with a majority of the posters on this thread.
A lot of you are shitting on Naniwa for telling his sponsor "I haven't been practicing, and I really don't want to go to this tournament for which I qualified." He may have good reasons. He may not. It doesn't really matter. If what he says is even remotely true, then I am questioning leadership of Alliance and IEM to an extent.
Imagine I told my boss that I don't feel like working for the next few months. My boss may say, "Is there something wrong?" If I were to just say no. That's cool. Your boss may say that if you don't show up you're fired and will more than likely be prepared to move on if you're really that dumb to tell your employer such things. All of this is just the worst case scenario in my opinion. It would make even less sense if Naniwa actually gave them any sort of qualifying reason.
I'd honestly like to know what the fuck Alliance and IEM are thinking. I would've fired him the minute he came to me with that crap. Would any of you let Naniwa go to the tournament to possibly crap on the team's name and the show IEM is trying to put on? I would find that extremely questionable. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole tirade doesn't affect anything attached to Alliance's name in the future.
Also, anyone denying Naniwa's skill is a moron. I could list the stats, but doing that doesn't fix stupid. None of this is to say he should be excused for his poor judgment. I just don't understand this drama over someone who has repeatedly demonstrated childish antics. I bet some of you people are still shocked that politicians lie.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Yes because sports like tennis don't have a team to give you salary and/or provide housing. In tennis you pay for your own flights. You pay $300 for stringing and a year of that costs around $9000. You aren't in a position in Tennis to say "well I don't want to try to win that tournament." You could win and pay for those expenses you didn't do as well or future ones. Evne rafael Nadal played Australian Open with a back problem. He doesn't really need the money since he's the second highest earner ever but his passion for the sport to not give up pushed him on. Esports is like babysit in comparison because of the structure of it and maybe the lack of it in some aspects. Then you get the type of post above mine that can't grasp how naniwa just took advantage of the situation he was in and couldn't even play his best in the last tournament he was in. According to Naniwa it only takes him 2 weeks to train to win a tournament. Really?
Something is wrong with Naniwa's team? As long as he was taking a pay check and under contract he needed to go. Once he doesn't play he has broken contract. When you sign a contract you can't just do whatever you want...
On March 22 2014 11:13 Eliezar wrote: Something is wrong with Naniwa's team? As long as he was taking a pay check and under contract he needed to go. Once he doesn't play he has broken contract. When you sign a contract you can't just do whatever you want...
Ok. Let's say you are an employer. Would you continue to pay someone who's not showing up to work?
On March 22 2014 10:27 chaos021 wrote: Imagine I told my boss that I don't feel like working for the next few months. My boss may say, "Is there something wrong?" If I were to just say no. That's cool. Your boss may say that if you don't show up you're fired and will more than likely be prepared to move on if you're really that dumb to tell your employer such things. All of this is just the worst case scenario in my opinion. It would make even less sense if Naniwa actually gave them any sort of qualifying reason.
It all depends on the contract, on which we don't know anything.
If you've got a contract for a fixed period and you can't leave whenever you want, you can announce you'll leave once it has ended but you're supposed to keep doing your job until the very last day. Even if you hate it. If you don't, you get fired (and potentially fined/sued depending on the job/company). Hating your job is (unfortunately) not that rare, but people still do it because, you know, they like having a paycheck from time to time. And that's the way you get it.
If you've got a contract that you *can* stop whenever you want, then once you decide to stop, just stop. Don't keep getting paid without doing anything, then actually work *against* your employer (in this case by creating a whole lot of bad publicity for the company and its sponsors), wait to get fired then criticize your ex-employer for having refused to let you do nothing while still getting paid. Where's the logic in that?
The employer is not supposed to fire people who say they want to stop. They're supposed to leave, and keep doing their job until they actually leave. The employer *is* supposed to fire people who are getting paid (even if they're saying they want to stop, that simply does not matter) but are not doing their job anymore. Or worse, are actively hurting the company.
We have no idea about the contents of this contract, so we can only base our opinions on the way jobs work around us. In my case, I can totally understand an employer expecting an employee to do his job professionally until the end of his contract, even if he already said he'd be leaving afterwards. An employee who doesn't do that exposes himself to *heavy* repercussions. Simply getting fired is a pretty friendly one.
Over here, if you tell your boss you're leaving, you still have three months to go before actually leaving. If you stop doing your job, you get fired and fined. If you *really* don't want to keep working and leave right now, you *pay* the employer for the three months you should have been working (and that's still lower than what the "fired and fined" option would cost). That's how it works from where I'm standing, and based on this, Naniwa got a pretty nice deal.
In short, whether you like your job or not does not matter. You're getting paid to do a job. If you don't do it, you get fired. That's pretty much the most standard thing ever for a company.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Yes because sports like tennis don't have a team to give you salary and/or provide housing. In tennis you pay for your own flights. You pay $300 for stringing and a year of that costs around $9000. You aren't in a position in Tennis to say "well I don't want to try to win that tournament." You could win and pay for those expenses you didn't do as well or future ones. Evne rafael Nadal played Australian Open with a back problem. He doesn't really need the money since he's the second highest earner ever but his passion for the sport to not give up pushed him on. Esports is like babysit in comparison because of the structure of it and maybe the lack of it in some aspects. Then you get the type of post above mine that can't grasp how naniwa just took advantage of the situation he was in and couldn't even play his best in the last tournament he was in. According to Naniwa it only takes him 2 weeks to train to win a tournament. Really?
Or just because even the slimiest Tennis Pro isn't a whiny shitbag who'll bite the hand that feeds him.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
Mario Balloteli famously stopped playing vs. the L.A. Galaxy. John McEnroe famously would quit playing to argue with the linesmen and curse them out. Really, does anyone really think Nani is a special case? There are people like this all over sports. E-Sports is certainly no different.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Yes because sports like tennis don't have a team to give you salary and/or provide housing. In tennis you pay for your own flights. You pay $300 for stringing and a year of that costs around $9000. You aren't in a position in Tennis to say "well I don't want to try to win that tournament." You could win and pay for those expenses you didn't do as well or future ones. Evne rafael Nadal played Australian Open with a back problem. He doesn't really need the money since he's the second highest earner ever but his passion for the sport to not give up pushed him on. Esports is like babysit in comparison because of the structure of it and maybe the lack of it in some aspects. Then you get the type of post above mine that can't grasp how naniwa just took advantage of the situation he was in and couldn't even play his best in the last tournament he was in. According to Naniwa it only takes him 2 weeks to train to win a tournament. Really?
True, you don't have a team, but you do have sponsors up the wahoo. Top 50 tennis players are like White Ra, Polt, viOLet, Grubby, etc. they are personally sponsored, need to market themselves appropriately, and can't be unprofessional. Don't talk about money, because that's not a topic worth going into. Getting last in a major gives you more than enough to settle any petty dispute you throw out like plane tickets, stringing, etc. Bottom line is, if nobody liked Nadal (or if tournaments didn't like Nadal), if he didn't obey the rules set forth by the people paying him, etc etc, he won't get paid, won't even be allowed to participate, won't have a deal with Nike, won't have deals with x amount of other companies, won't get commercials for those and other random companies, and would have to make his entire living off of winnings alone. You could say that top 50 tennis players make tons of money, but if you take into consideration their lifestyles and their families, they'd be broke if they were the NaNiWa's of tennis.
This was barely even a response to you though, and more of a response to some other posters.
On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote: Naniwa does what Naniwa does Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit
On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote: im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. tournaments by their own skill
Reading this make me wanna emigrate from sweden to another country, your'e a disgrace to our country! There will always be idiots...
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
Mario Balloteli famously stopped playing vs. the L.A. Galaxy. John McEnroe famously would quit playing to argue with the linesmen and curse them out. Really, does anyone really think Nani is a special case? There are people like this all over sports. E-Sports is certainly no different.
If Nadal tells Nike he's going to compete, he's going to compete. His contract says so and he doesn't want to lose Nike. Even if he goes out by "injury" in one if the first rounds, he'll be there.
It's true that pro sports also have bad apples, but they are almost always punished to a degree, and only stay relavent because of their skills. Mario not playing even though he was signed to play, his team could have dropped him. Idk if McEnroe quit or was ejected from the tournament?? Refusal to play is one thing, breaking contracts and rules is something else, although they do often come hand in hand, it's up to the rule makers to decide how or if to punish the offender accordingly.
In this case, Alliance doesn't need Nani, who claims to be quitting. After Nani showed a blatant poor performance which probably breeched contract in one way or another (I'm willing to bet it did), Alliance dropped him, thus relieving themselves of responsibility for and over Nani. Same could and/or would happen to any pro athlete who fucks with the people paying them.
"but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. "
Funny how much pride and vanity someone who has lost interest in the game can take from his skill or talent at it.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
I still am curious about this, how exactly do you imagin they forced him to play?
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
I still am curious about this, how exactly do you imagin they forced him to play?
They threatened "consequences". You know, they shook their cheque-books and said "or else".
I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
On March 22 2014 21:25 Faruko wrote: He does have a point when he says he qualified fair and square, the other foreigners didnt
Ofc he does. He is just redirecting the flames, so that people focus less on him being a douche. But his point comes with that certain unjustified arrogance
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
I still am curious about this, how exactly do you imagin they forced him to play?
They threatened "consequences". You know, they shook their cheque-books and said "or else".
How is that a threat? You don't do your job you don't get paid, in what world is that a threat and not the common understanding of a employer/employe relationship?
It is within the right of Alliance to force him to go, and it is within his rights to forfeit. He didn't go out of the right of anything, and got removed from contract by Alliance, who forced him to go against better judgment from the player and lack of wisdom of the management. That is within their right, but [A] are washing their hands, and let Nani pay for mistakes that are both ways. I would fire the guy that ordered him to go, as he indirectly was causing the poor image relection on [A] themselves.
Unless he was fired for not practicing, but then they shouldn't have forced him to go, but relieve him of contract prior.
On March 22 2014 10:15 ArTiFaKs wrote: I don't know why everyone expects Professional SC2 players to be "role-models" or the standard for how people should behave. Look at professional athletes in any sport and the reason they are paid money to play a sport is because of their talent on the field. Shit Ray Lewis played football and will probably be in the hall of fame even though he went to trial for murder. There are plenty of shitty people that turn out to be good at a sport, and the same thing is true in SC2.
People don't expect Naniwa to be a "role-model", but they expected him to behave like an "adult" that had a microbe of sportsmanship in his body. I don't think there is a doubt that Ray Ray killed a mofo, but his passion for the game of Football is undeniable. Ray Ray went through all the Superbowl Media allegations with class and dignity, while being sincere about his condolences to the family of the deceased. Professionals don't mean saints or chore-boys, but it does identify with someone that would MAN UP to his faults and try his best to make up for his mistakes.
However you want to look at Naniwa's actions, it showed that he is a petulant child not a MAN.
On March 22 2014 21:25 Faruko wrote: He does have a point when he says he qualified fair and square, the other foreigners didnt
Ofc he does. He is just redirecting the flames, so that people focus less on him being a douche. But his point comes with that certain unjustified arrogance
Unjustified? Numerous personality flaws aside, he was also one of the best foreigners SC2 ever had, at least so far. It's kind of funny how some people hate on him so hard that they don't even want to consider his skill anymore - perhaps cognitive dissonance? There's a reason that he always seems to be able to find a team despite all the shit he pulls.
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
Mario Balloteli famously stopped playing vs. the L.A. Galaxy. John McEnroe famously would quit playing to argue with the linesmen and curse them out. Really, does anyone really think Nani is a special case? There are people like this all over sports. E-Sports is certainly no different.
If Nadal tells Nike he's going to compete, he's going to compete. His contract says so and he doesn't want to lose Nike. Even if he goes out by "injury" in one if the first rounds, he'll be there.
It's true that pro sports also have bad apples, but they are almost always punished to a degree, and only stay relavent because of their skills. Mario not playing even though he was signed to play, his team could have dropped him. Idk if McEnroe quit or was ejected from the tournament?? Refusal to play is one thing, breaking contracts and rules is something else, although they do often come hand in hand, it's up to the rule makers to decide how or if to punish the offender accordingly.
In this case, Alliance doesn't need Nani, who claims to be quitting. After Nani showed a blatant poor performance which probably breeched contract in one way or another (I'm willing to bet it did), Alliance dropped him, thus relieving themselves of responsibility for and over Nani. Same could and/or would happen to any pro athlete who fucks with the people paying them.
Balloteli being punished amounts to fining him money that he has in spades. McEnroe being punished does not mean dropping his sponsors, they loved how big of a dick he was. There are hockey players that play the same. Jeremy Roenick was always outspoken as a player, and he stayed popular among fans despite being what people in this community would call an asshole. There are TONS of pros out there much worse at throwing temper tantrums than Nani. The hate on Nani is because we as a community think we are somehow above that. We aren't. I don't like it, and no one has to like it, but we do have to accept that "professionalism" and "class" are not aspects of all professionals in any profession. Along with that, you can dislike a player for not being a classy guy, but to say that its somehow out of line, or it doesn't occur regularly elsewhere is not true.
Alliance is being surprisingly quiet. Aside the initial tweet just after the tournament just stating the facts he forfeited, no statement whatshowever. Shouldn't they issue a statement as fast as possible to announce Naniwa leaving to distant themself toward the player for the sake of the sponsers?
Or are their still talks going on what to do with Naniwa and instead punish him in a different manner then releasing him?
On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote: They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments?
In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
Mario Balloteli famously stopped playing vs. the L.A. Galaxy. John McEnroe famously would quit playing to argue with the linesmen and curse them out. Really, does anyone really think Nani is a special case? There are people like this all over sports. E-Sports is certainly no different.
If Nadal tells Nike he's going to compete, he's going to compete. His contract says so and he doesn't want to lose Nike. Even if he goes out by "injury" in one if the first rounds, he'll be there.
It's true that pro sports also have bad apples, but they are almost always punished to a degree, and only stay relavent because of their skills. Mario not playing even though he was signed to play, his team could have dropped him. Idk if McEnroe quit or was ejected from the tournament?? Refusal to play is one thing, breaking contracts and rules is something else, although they do often come hand in hand, it's up to the rule makers to decide how or if to punish the offender accordingly.
In this case, Alliance doesn't need Nani, who claims to be quitting. After Nani showed a blatant poor performance which probably breeched contract in one way or another (I'm willing to bet it did), Alliance dropped him, thus relieving themselves of responsibility for and over Nani. Same could and/or would happen to any pro athlete who fucks with the people paying them.
Balloteli being punished amounts to fining him money that he has in spades. McEnroe being punished does not mean dropping his sponsors, they loved how big of a dick he was. There are hockey players that play the same. Jeremy Roenick was always outspoken as a player, and he stayed popular among fans despite being what people in this community would call an asshole. There are TONS of pros out there much worse at throwing temper tantrums than Nani. The hate on Nani is because we as a community think we are somehow above that. We aren't. I don't like it, and no one has to like it, but we do have to accept that "professionalism" and "class" are not aspects of all professionals in any profession. Along with that, you can dislike a player for not being a classy guy, but to say that its somehow out of line, or it doesn't occur regularly elsewhere is not true.
That's like comparing Nani and IdrA. Sure IdrA was way more BM than Nani, but Nani both were loved for different reasons. Like Jeremy, IdrA was loved for being a dick, but he ended up screwing up too badly as well. If Jeremy were to go to twitter, or at a fan signing, and say that all his fans are complete pieces of shit and are totally worthless, actions will probably take place. His sponsors didn't love how McEnroe was a dick, they loved how he had so many fans. If McEnroe smashed all his racquets and then said "Head racquets suck!", actions will be taken.
I believe every professional should act professional. This means many things, but being classy to an extend is one, and being able to taunt and entertain is another, plus many other aspects.
Although I believe professionals should act professionally, it's up to the people with money to decide what rules to emplace and how strictly to enforce which rules and under which circumstances. I haven't done research, but I'm pretty sure McEnroe was ejected from a few tournaments? More importantly, if he fucked over his sponsors, and broke contract too harshly, his sponsors would have dropped him. If a tournament rule says "don't do ____", and he does ____ straight to the camera, then he'll probably be ejected. Rules and the enforcement of rules is the important part, and Nani deserved to be kicked out of his team. He probably didn't even deserve a team, but that's personal opinion and not relavent to the conversation.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Yeah, because no scene thrives on more polarizing personalities and having things to talk about. What we need is more professional players, because if there's one thing people love, it's talking about how professional people are.
On March 22 2014 10:15 ArTiFaKs wrote: I don't know why everyone expects Professional SC2 players to be "role-models" or the standard for how people should behave. Look at professional athletes in any sport and the reason they are paid money to play a sport is because of their talent on the field. Shit Ray Lewis played football and will probably be in the hall of fame even though he went to trial for murder. There are plenty of shitty people that turn out to be good at a sport, and the same thing is true in SC2.
People don't expect Naniwa to be a "role-model", but they expected him to behave like an "adult" that had a microbe of sportsmanship in his body. I don't think there is a doubt that Ray Ray killed a mofo, but his passion for the game of Football is undeniable. Ray Ray went through all the Superbowl Media allegations with class and dignity, while being sincere about his condolences to the family of the deceased. Professionals don't mean saints or chore-boys, but it does identify with someone that would MAN UP to his faults and try his best to make up for his mistakes.
However you want to look at Naniwa's actions, it showed that he is a petulant child not a MAN.
This post does a good job of summing up this community. Murder is fine as long as you're professional about it afterwards, but being unprofessional pretty much makes you a scumbag.
@Shinta) Fortunately, Naniwa did not break any tournament rules, right? I don't actually know why you brought that up. Now, it's entirely possible he did not follow his contract. Who the hell knows what his contract said. There's little point in using that as an argument, though.
All he really did was forfeit a tournament. People forfeit tournaments all of the time, and given his situation, I do not blame him at all for doing so. If ANY professional [sport] player hadn't played that sport in over a month, there would be zero chance he'd actually go to the event, especially if there was not even guaranteed prize money (in this case, it's 100k ONLY for 1st place).
Now, none of us know for certain what Naniwa had told Alliance prior, and vice versa, but assuming Naniwa had informed Alliance that he was not in any condition to play the tournament (that he hadn't played in forever), then Alliance should hold the blame for sending him and expecting anything out of it. No where did Naniwa say shitty things about his sponsors. Naniwa wasn't even that badly tempered at the event. He simply forfeited his series. He might have used the poor sound-cancelling as an excuse to forfeit, but it was clear that he had no desire to play in it, and the games would have been garbage.
He is now off of the team, so clearly Alliance did not like something that Naniwa did (or maybe what he didn't do, which was not play SC2 for a month). People saying that "If I did this in MY job, I'd be fired!!" don't seem to realize that he WAS fired. Alliance no longer had any reason to keep him on the team. It's only logical he would be removed. I'm pretty sure Naniwa knew that, too. That doesn't necessarily mean Naniwa did anything terrible. He just did something that didn't work for Alliance. People should direct their rage towards something actually bad, instead of some guy's choice to retire from the game.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
Really? Do you think that disliking naniwa's actions on the latest IEM is some sort of popularity contest?
It is not. He agreed to go to IEM (even "forced", which is laughable since it is his goddamned job and gets paid to, if i don't want to continue with my job, i just quit) only to make viewers, ESL and his team sponsors waste time. He acted unprofessionally, it is not something new, it has nothing to do with being likeable and certainly he hasn't changed one little bit over the years.
And in real life, you get fired. And if you continue to be an unpredictable volatile asset, nobody will hire you again, specially in such a small world as sc2 esports is.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
The thing is he didn't show good games. What most of us are mad about is the probe rush and now complaining about soundproof issue and forfeiting a match at a big event. Who said it was a popularity contest? I agree with you, if he show good games then I won't say anything.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
The thing is he didn't show good games. What most of us are mad about is the probe rush and now complaining about soundproof issue and forfeiting a match at a big event. Who said it was a popularity contest? I agree with you, if he show good games then I won't say anything.
Pretty isolated events? You bring up two examples over several years. I mean he consistently came furthest of all foreigners in tournaments, If beaten only by Stephano in success by non koreans. In no way was cheese overrepresented. Sure he did occasionally but mostly it was 2-3base timings kinda like MC. Saying he dind't generally show good games is pretty damn silly, I for one don't like his personality but I'm very sad that one of the very few foreigners that could actually compete with the Koreans at a regular basis now are gone.
And the probe rush gimme a break, sure it was stupid but I mean it was a game meaning nothing for any of the players, it didn't matter at all. Sure he should have 4-gated/cannon rushed or something but hey, the essence of it would still have been there, it's hard to take it seriously when nothing is at stake and you definitely don't want to show actual builds. Again, I don't agree with it but it's not that big of a deal, christ people on internet can be so sensitive.
And people saying this is good for SC2, It sure as hell isn't good, there's alot less viewers in tourneys without foreigners and I cant see who will fill his spot. Scarlett seems to be the only true foreigner hope left, Loads of players can take games of top Koreans for sure but I see noone else doing it regularly, please correct me if I miss someone.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
The thing is he didn't show good games. What most of us are mad about is the probe rush and now complaining about soundproof issue and forfeiting a match at a big event. Who said it was a popularity contest? I agree with you, if he show good games then I won't say anything.
So basically, one game from years ago. Why would you expect him to show quality games in an event in which he doesn't want to play and for which he hasn't practiced in over a month?
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
The thing is he didn't show good games. What most of us are mad about is the probe rush and now complaining about soundproof issue and forfeiting a match at a big event. Who said it was a popularity contest? I agree with you, if he show good games then I won't say anything.
So basically, one game from years ago. Why would you expect him to show quality games in an event in which he doesn't want to play and for which he hasn't practiced in over a month?
I don't know, because that's his job? It's what a large organization is paying him (if rumors are correct) a quite substantial amount of money to do, and what the tournament has flown him there at their expense to do?
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
The thing is he didn't show good games. What most of us are mad about is the probe rush and now complaining about soundproof issue and forfeiting a match at a big event. Who said it was a popularity contest? I agree with you, if he show good games then I won't say anything.
So basically, one game from years ago. Why would you expect him to show quality games in an event in which he doesn't want to play and for which he hasn't practiced in over a month?
I don't know, because that's his job? It's what a large organization is paying him (if rumors are correct) a quite substantial amount of money to do, and what the tournament has flown him there at their expense to do?
Except he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, and he told his team he wanted to drop out and be replaced by somebody else, so...
On March 23 2014 09:39 bduddy wrote:I don't know, because that's his job? It's what a large organization is paying him (if rumors are correct) a quite substantial amount of money to do, and what the tournament has flown him there at their expense to do?
Except he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, and he told his team he wanted to drop out and be replaced by somebody else, so...
...so maybe he should have left instead of staying there getting paid and waiting to give his boss a reason to fire him?
This entire topic seems to be divided between people who have a job and an idea of how this works, and people who think that a professional workplace is a magical land in a fairy tale with rainbows and unicorns, where the employer only has his employees' best interests at heart.
You know what? It's not. If you want to quit your job *right now*, quit it right now *and* pay whatever you're required to pay to do that. If you don't want to do that, keep doing your job until you're actually allowed to leave. You don't like it? Deal with it. Skill and popularity have nothing to do with it. The only exception is if you can make yourself sufficiently valuable for your company to allow for "unusual" behavior. Not a lot of people can do that, and that's not always a good thing, far from it.
There's nothing esports-specific here. Or sports-specific even. It's the way this works pretty much everywhere. If you don't do your job when you're supposed to, you actually become a liability for the company and you're not in a position where you bring in more money that it'd cost to fire you, you get fired. No one cares if you suddenly decide you don't like your job anymore. You want to move? Move. Otherwise, do your job. That's on *you*, not on your employer.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
The thing is he didn't show good games. What most of us are mad about is the probe rush and now complaining about soundproof issue and forfeiting a match at a big event. Who said it was a popularity contest? I agree with you, if he show good games then I won't say anything.
So basically, one game from years ago. Why would you expect him to show quality games in an event in which he doesn't want to play and for which he hasn't practiced in over a month?
I don't know, because that's his job? It's what a large organization is paying him (if rumors are correct) a quite substantial amount of money to do, and what the tournament has flown him there at their expense to do?
Except he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, and he told his team he wanted to drop out and be replaced by somebody else, so...
In the business world, people don't just get to choose when they get to stop honoring their contract. He may not have wanted to play anymore, and he should have thought about that scenario before signing a contract that placed Starcraft 2 as his full time job.
Imagine how people would feel if Alliance just decided to stop paying Naniwa for the remainder of their contract because they didn't like him anymore for no valid reason? The community would have a fit about it. At the end of the day, contracts are in place for both parties to hold up their end of the terms. If he didn't want to take on the responsibility of the contract, he shouldn't have entered into it.
Naniwa better get his ass back into Esports because he sure as hell isn't going to be making any money working in the real world. He acts as if he's entitled to so much for being the "best foreigner".. literally who cares? You're the best minor league player in the world... in a niche gaming community... get a grip lol.
On March 23 2014 09:39 bduddy wrote:I don't know, because that's his job? It's what a large organization is paying him (if rumors are correct) a quite substantial amount of money to do, and what the tournament has flown him there at their expense to do?
Except he didn't want to play Starcraft 2 anymore, and he told his team he wanted to drop out and be replaced by somebody else, so...
...so maybe he should have left instead of staying there getting paid and waiting to give his boss a reason to fire him?
This entire topic seems to be divided between people who have a job and an idea of how this works, and people who think that a professional workplace is a magical land in a fairy tale with rainbows and unicorns, where the employer only has his employees' best interests at heart.
You know what? It's not. If you want to quit your job *right now*, quit it right now *and* pay whatever you're required to pay to do that. If you don't want to do that, keep doing your job until you're actually allowed to leave. You don't like it? Deal with it. Skill and popularity have nothing to do with it. The only exception is if you can make yourself sufficiently valuable for your company to allow for "unusual" behavior. Not a lot of people can do that, and that's not always a good thing, far from it.
There's nothing esports-specific here. Or sports-specific even. It's the way this works pretty much everywhere. If you don't do your job when you're supposed to, you actually become a liability for the company and you're not in a position where you bring in more money that it'd cost to fire you, you get fired. No one cares if you suddenly decide you don't like your job anymore. You want to move? Move. Otherwise, do your job. That's on *you*, not on your employer.
Maybe he wanted to have the option to come back in the future, and Alliance could have arranged a deal with him where he goes on leave without pay until he figures out what he wants to do?
I've seen the "no one would do that if they hadn't been playing for a month" Can someone clue me in as to why people think it is acceptable to call yourself a "professional" SC2 player but not play/practice?
Then use the fact that you haven't been doing your job as an excuse to continue to not do your job and then complain about people insisting you do your job or you get fired?
The only sensible explanation is a variation of the most recent one in which this was like a big headed athlete listening to the wrong people and holding out during training camp into preseason and then not only not getting a better deal but losing the one he had.
Whatever he wanted pretty sure there would of been a better way to get it.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
This isn't about being a personality contest. This is about having some basic manners and professionalism. There are plenty of showoffs in the scene, like Stephano and MC, but the difference between them and Naniwa (and in some extent Idra) is that they know when to fool around and when to keep their mouth shut.
On March 23 2014 15:29 GreenHorizons wrote: I've seen the "no one would do that if they hadn't been playing for a month" Can someone clue me in as to why people think it is acceptable to call yourself a "professional" SC2 player but not play/practice?
Then use the fact that you haven't been doing your job as an excuse to continue to not do your job and then complain about people insisting you do your job or you get fired?
The only sensible explanation is a variation of the most recent one in which this was like a big headed athlete listening to the wrong people and holding out during training camp into preseason and then not only not getting a better deal but losing the one he had.
Whatever he wanted pretty sure there would of been a better way to get it.
What are you talking about? He just doesn't want to play the game anymore, so he stopped playing.
Yeah, because no scene thrives on more polarizing personalities and having things to talk about. What we need is more professional players, because if there's one thing people love, it's talking about how professional people are.
I could not say it better myself. I simply do not understand all the hate that Naniwa gets. I guess that too many people loves to be drama queens nowadays. How lovely!
On March 23 2014 18:18 VArsovskiSC wrote: What a sad way to end a career.. A good one at that.. :/
GL HF in life Nani.. To end a such a good carreer in that way,.. - quite a bit sad..
I don't think it's sad. It depends on your interpretation. The masses make it sound negative, but Naniwa is doing what he feels is the best for him and his drive for competing is staying high, although currently not in Starcraft. How can this be sad?
I'm happy for him. He is a personality and he chooses what he wants to do. I hope he will keep on realizing himself.
On March 22 2014 20:24 Forgottenfrog wrote: I just hope that this is the last time we hear of Naniwa. If sc2 was to ever prosper, less of Naniwa is what's needed. He's very unprofessional and is character is questionable at best.
Sorry StarCraft 2 is not a USA American personality contest. Who cares if they are likeable as long as they show good games and skill. Which naniwa has done for years and years. He was the only person making it to GSL RO 8 back in wings when protoss were having a very hard time.
He has been better than every single foreigner result wise. I really hate how Esports is evolving into a popularity contest rather then being appreciated for skill, at least in SC2. I hope naniwa makes a come back in Legacy of the void, he shows such great understanding of this game. Pro gamers need to be judged by their skill and less on if they are likeable or not.
This isn't about being a personality contest. This is about having some basic manners and professionalism. There are plenty of showoffs in the scene, like Stephano and MC, but the difference between them and Naniwa (and in some extent Idra) is that they know when to fool around and when to keep their mouth shut.
Keep their mouth shut and stephano, really? Like what he msg'd to Bling - were you living under a rock? :p
Naniwa seems like an ass but he is by far and large the most interesting player IMO and attracted alot of viewers
Watching Naniwa meltdown on stage was one of the wildest moments in SC2 tournament history. The casters and crowd were absolutely baffled and forced to endure like 10 minutes of awkward confusion. This is how we will remember Nani? Instead of bowing out in a blaze of glory, he whimpered and made excuses for an unfair world.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
Naniwa is such a child with a really high esteem of himself saying he can be the best foreigner whenever he wants when he would be stomped by Stephano or Scarlett 9 times out of ten.
Alliance did not lose anything letting him go. I personnaly hope this guy never comes back, he is a shame not for sc2 but also for all swedish people.
On March 22 2014 06:40 KelsierSC wrote: I think Naniwa is just farming achievement points.
Join every single team - +100
Rage quit... check Probe rush... check Premier titles... check Whinner... check Disqualified... check Gone to Korea... check Invited in all premier tourna... check Won against a korean in finals... check top 10 on ladder... check fired??!... check an asshole... check
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
Btw, GJ Alliance
You seem to think that real jobs have much resemblance to being a professional SC2 player. Basically, the two ways of being successful in SC2 is either by promoting your sponsors a shit-ton (look at Incontrol) or by being skilled, indirectly promoting your sponsors (every Korean? Naniwa?). So, Naniwa only cared about being #1 (the best). His poor attitude is a result of that. There are very few situations where one would ever hold that kind of competitive mindset in their job. In addition, Naniwa only had his "job" (was part of Alliance), not so much to make money, but to be able to play the game. If he were to have a real job, it's incredibly unlikely he would behave in such a way, since he'd probably only be doing it to make money.
Also, in real life, it actually is quite common to have a highly skilled or talented employee who has TERRIBLE public relations. A lot of scientists are like that. Their motive is to progress science while the motive of the employer is to make something marketable.
Every time you guys say "GJ Alliance", I just sigh. Where did they do a good job? By firing an employee who basically quit their job, ANYWAY? Like, yeah, that's pretty logical. I don't keep paying people who quit their job, either. What wasn't a good job was sending Naniwa to the event. That was a bad job. The reason Alliance had Naniwa on the team was because he was skilled and seen as one of the best foreign players. Since he was not even close to "one of the best foreign players" at that point (he hadn't played in a month), they were basically asking him to go there and lose 3 games to Polt. Naniwa had no shits left to give, and Alliance expected otherwise.
It's entirely possible that Alliance would have kept Naniwa on the team, even as a non-SC2 player, had he... actually cared at the event and maybe, cheesed all 3 games instead of cheesing 1 and forfeiting... But who knows?
Otherwise, leave and stop your continuous whining. Great move from Alliance.
except he wasn't whining (for once in a while actually). I don't know why people are so up in arms over this. Alliance wants him gone, Naniwa doesn't care. Nothing to be angry about. The part about him cheesing in a tournament is another topic of its own.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
Btw, GJ Alliance
You seem to think that real jobs have much resemblance to being a professional SC2 player. Basically, the two ways of being successful in SC2 is either by promoting your sponsors a shit-ton (look at Incontrol) or by being skilled, indirectly promoting your sponsors (every Korean? Naniwa?). So, Naniwa only cared about being #1 (the best). His poor attitude is a result of that. There are very few situations where one would ever hold that kind of competitive mindset in their job. In addition, Naniwa only had his "job" (was part of Alliance), not so much to make money, but to be able to play the game. If he were to have a real job, it's incredibly unlikely he would behave in such a way, since he'd probably only be doing it to make money.
Also, in real life, it actually is quite common to have a highly skilled or talented employee who has TERRIBLE public relations. A lot of scientists are like that. Their motive is to progress science while the motive of the employer is to make something marketable.
Every time you guys say "GJ Alliance", I just sigh. Where did they do a good job? By firing an employee who basically quit their job, ANYWAY? Like, yeah, that's pretty logical. I don't keep paying people who quit their job, either. What wasn't a good job was sending Naniwa to the event. That was a bad job. The reason Alliance had Naniwa on the team was because he was skilled and seen as one of the best foreign players. Since he was not even close to "one of the best foreign players" at that point (he hadn't played in a month), they were basically asking him to go there and lose 3 games to Polt. Naniwa had no shits left to give, and Alliance expected otherwise.
It's entirely possible that Alliance would have kept Naniwa on the team, even as a non-SC2 player, had he... actually cared at the event and maybe, cheesed all 3 games instead of cheesing 1 and forfeiting... But who knows?
You have an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation. This situation goes beyond public relations. As you said, Naniwa was never the player to care about his image in the scene, promoting sponsors or appeasing the management. If you aren't going to do any of those you better at least PLAY THE GAME. He's always lauded as a player that "doesn't give a shit" about anything about the game itself and winning so it's pretty hilarious that in the end he goes out without even fighting. Naniwa's parallel to a real world scientist would be a scientist refusing to do anything in the lab and then crying when his supervisor tells him to pack his bags. Not to mention those scientists have probably worked for years obtaining a Phd or building valuable lab experience. What does Naniwa have, half a high school degree? As others have said, with his attitude I'm not even sure he'd be able to secure a job at McDonalds. Anyone who's worked in the real world can tell you there's virtually no room for this kind of behavior.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
Btw, GJ Alliance
You seem to think that real jobs have much resemblance to being a professional SC2 player. Basically, the two ways of being successful in SC2 is either by promoting your sponsors a shit-ton (look at Incontrol) or by being skilled, indirectly promoting your sponsors (every Korean? Naniwa?). So, Naniwa only cared about being #1 (the best). His poor attitude is a result of that. There are very few situations where one would ever hold that kind of competitive mindset in their job. In addition, Naniwa only had his "job" (was part of Alliance), not so much to make money, but to be able to play the game. If he were to have a real job, it's incredibly unlikely he would behave in such a way, since he'd probably only be doing it to make money.
Also, in real life, it actually is quite common to have a highly skilled or talented employee who has TERRIBLE public relations. A lot of scientists are like that. Their motive is to progress science while the motive of the employer is to make something marketable.
Every time you guys say "GJ Alliance", I just sigh. Where did they do a good job? By firing an employee who basically quit their job, ANYWAY? Like, yeah, that's pretty logical. I don't keep paying people who quit their job, either. What wasn't a good job was sending Naniwa to the event. That was a bad job. The reason Alliance had Naniwa on the team was because he was skilled and seen as one of the best foreign players. Since he was not even close to "one of the best foreign players" at that point (he hadn't played in a month), they were basically asking him to go there and lose 3 games to Polt. Naniwa had no shits left to give, and Alliance expected otherwise.
It's entirely possible that Alliance would have kept Naniwa on the team, even as a non-SC2 player, had he... actually cared at the event and maybe, cheesed all 3 games instead of cheesing 1 and forfeiting... But who knows?
My job generally doesn't keep people that are not actively attempting to earn them money. Nani'wa not wanting to play SC2 is fine, but then you quit an move on. Not go full drama queen at a major event in front of thousands of people. If he didn't want to go, he should have just not gone and let Alliance do whatever they said they were going to do.
So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
Btw, GJ Alliance
You seem to think that real jobs have much resemblance to being a professional SC2 player. Basically, the two ways of being successful in SC2 is either by promoting your sponsors a shit-ton (look at Incontrol) or by being skilled, indirectly promoting your sponsors (every Korean? Naniwa?). So, Naniwa only cared about being #1 (the best). His poor attitude is a result of that. There are very few situations where one would ever hold that kind of competitive mindset in their job. In addition, Naniwa only had his "job" (was part of Alliance), not so much to make money, but to be able to play the game. If he were to have a real job, it's incredibly unlikely he would behave in such a way, since he'd probably only be doing it to make money.
Also, in real life, it actually is quite common to have a highly skilled or talented employee who has TERRIBLE public relations. A lot of scientists are like that. Their motive is to progress science while the motive of the employer is to make something marketable.
Every time you guys say "GJ Alliance", I just sigh. Where did they do a good job? By firing an employee who basically quit their job, ANYWAY? Like, yeah, that's pretty logical. I don't keep paying people who quit their job, either. What wasn't a good job was sending Naniwa to the event. That was a bad job. The reason Alliance had Naniwa on the team was because he was skilled and seen as one of the best foreign players. Since he was not even close to "one of the best foreign players" at that point (he hadn't played in a month), they were basically asking him to go there and lose 3 games to Polt. Naniwa had no shits left to give, and Alliance expected otherwise.
It's entirely possible that Alliance would have kept Naniwa on the team, even as a non-SC2 player, had he... actually cared at the event and maybe, cheesed all 3 games instead of cheesing 1 and forfeiting... But who knows?
You have an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation. This situation goes beyond public relations. As you said, Naniwa was never the player to care about his image in the scene, promoting sponsors or appeasing the management. If you aren't going to do any of those you better at least PLAY THE GAME. He's always lauded as a player that "doesn't give a shit" about anything about the game itself and winning so it's pretty hilarious that in the end he goes out without even fighting. Naniwa's parallel to a real world scientist would be a scientist refusing to do anything in the lab and then crying when his supervisor tells him to pack his bags. Not to mention those scientists have probably worked for years obtaining a Phd or building valuable lab experience. What does Naniwa have, half a high school degree? As others have said, with his attitude I'm not even sure he'd be able to secure a job at McDonalds. Anyone who's worked in the real world can tell you there's virtually no room for this kind of behavior.
What exactly do you have? The time on your hands to write about someone who in your words isn't even significant enough to warrant a job at Mcdonalds? What does that make you? Laughable, that's what. Spew all the rage at me you want. You're a professional at one thing: accumulating a high post count on a forum (albeit, the best forum I've ever had the pleasure of taking part in, but nonetheless.) By the way, how is he not in "the real world"? Was his experience as a professional hallucinated? And don't give me some bullshit about how your job is more important or more based in reality. You tell yourself that because Naniwa had the courage to pursue something he loved despite his family nearly disowning him for it, while you didn't. Just don't buddy. It is you that has an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation, but you cannot see that - because the truly ignorant do not know they are ignorant. No doubt you will respond with some defensive, incoherent babble. I welcome it, but I will not read it- so I would not bother if I were you.
PS - I disagree with many things Naniwa did because I want the best for the Starcraft scene. That does not mean the rage in this thread is justified.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
On March 23 2014 23:49 SupLilSon wrote: You have an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation. This situation goes beyond public relations. As you said, Naniwa was never the player to care about his image in the scene, promoting sponsors or appeasing the management. If you aren't going to do any of those you better at least PLAY THE GAME. He's always lauded as a player that "doesn't give a shit" about anything about the game itself and winning so it's pretty hilarious that in the end he goes out without even fighting. Naniwa's parallel to a real world scientist would be a scientist refusing to do anything in the lab and then crying when his supervisor tells him to pack his bags. Not to mention those scientists have probably worked for years obtaining a Phd or building valuable lab experience. What does Naniwa have, half a high school degree? As others have said, with his attitude I'm not even sure he'd be able to secure a job at McDonalds. Anyone who's worked in the real world can tell you there's virtually no room for this kind of behavior.
Except that Naniwa didn't cry when his "supervisor told him to pack his bags". If a scientist no longer has any interest in the work that he is doing, and he no longer cares about any of the money he gets paid for doing what he does, then him just stopping is quite alright. I think there are smoother ways of doing things, but it makes little difference to him (Naniwa).
This behavior? It's a completely different scenario that would likely never actually occur in other jobs for the reason I stated before... If Naniwa were to have an actual job, he would probably be doing it for the money instead of his passion. He might actually be a pretty friendly guy who would make a great employee at McDonalds for all we know. He just isn't someone who takes a loss lightly in a competitive game (evidently, Risk the boardgame either!).
@Plansix I would agree that his methods were suboptimal, but we do not know the details of the situation. And he just forfeited. I'd actually say what Naniwa did was far more appropriate than any of the times someone has made racist or offensive comments. Idra's post on TL which got him kicked from EG was a far worse decision than Naniwa's. Yet, he was not totally outcasted, and he had a decent viewer count for quite some time after the event. Naniwa actually had the intention to quit SC2, so his actions meant even less!!
People are just making this whole thing seem far worse than it really is. Naniwa didn't care about anything, and he quit SC2. That's about all there is to it. He had even less motivation to play the games when there was not even prize money for anything but 1st. Maybe he just wanted to visit Poland one last time!
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticizing them when they fail. And yet achieving nothing for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell.
What the fuck are you talking about? Parasite? Nani'wa is the one who went full middle school girl on the main stage of IEM, no ETisME. That is why there is a 33 page thread about him, cause he went full retard.
Or are you trying to create some bullshit argument we are all wanna-bes and have achieved nothing like Nani'wa? Never mind the fact that his achievements are much less impressive without us all watching.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticizing them when they fail. And yet achieving nothing for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell.
What the fuck are you talking about? Parasite? Nani'wa is the one who went full middle school girl on the main stage of IEM, no ETisME. That is why there is a 33 page thread about him, cause he went full retard.
Or are you trying to create some bullshit argument we are all wanna-bes and have achieved nothing like Nani'wa? Never mind the fact that his achievements are much less impressive without us all watching.
Did you not see my criticisms of him? Let me make this very simple for you: You are spending a great deal of time getting your panties in a bunch about someone you describe as a middle-school girl. That's what make you more pathetic than him. Don't try to straw man me and make me out to be attacking the entire community.
If you spent half as much time doing something for yourself as you did making more than thirteen thousand posts, you may have done something with your life. For now, it appears that isn't the case. That's what the fuck I am talking about. Deal with it.
Let me make this clear: I have a low opinion of Naniwa, but an even lower opinion of you.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
Btw, GJ Alliance
i lol'd, have you never seen assholes in RL ?
He´s right though, guys like Naniwa who polarize and cause drama are (almost) perfect for the entertainment industry (in his case E-Sports). They draw attention and with attention comes money, at least as long as the sponsors/investors are not affected in a negative way. "The real world" has no real need for guys like him, imagine him writing his application; worked for eight different companies/employers in the past ~ four years, well known for beeing bm (sometimes), a loner and causing trouble/drama. There is no company in the world that would hire sb like him for a "serious" job.
The difference between having a real job and a job in esports is that with a real job you have some level of security and trust for your employer. I think players catch on pretty fast to the fact that there are a lot of empty promises and bullshit associated with almost every esports organisation so the contracts aren't worth much more than the papers they're signed on. I seriously doubt there's a single player that didn't get burned at some point. And I really think in the majority of the cases it isn't even intentional, just young people with large ambitions biting off more than they can chew.
I wouldn't give as much of a fuck about whatever obligations I had if I had no confidence in that the other party would fulfill theirs. I have the same feelings towards the music industry, and worst of all the nightlife industry. When everyone's completely full of shit it no longer makes sense to be a man of your word.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticizing them when they fail. And yet achieving nothing for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell.
What the fuck are you talking about? Parasite? Nani'wa is the one who went full middle school girl on the main stage of IEM, no ETisME. That is why there is a 33 page thread about him, cause he went full retard.
Or are you trying to create some bullshit argument we are all wanna-bes and have achieved nothing like Nani'wa? Never mind the fact that his achievements are much less impressive without us all watching.
Did you not see my criticisms of him? Let me make this very simple for you: You are spending a great deal of time getting your panties in a bunch about someone you describe as a middle-school girl. That's what make you more pathetic than him. Don't try to straw man me and make me out to be attacking the entire community.
If you spent half as much time doing something for yourself as you did making more than thirteen thousand posts, you may have done something with your life. For now, it appears that isn't the case. That's what the fuck I am talking about. Deal with it.
Let me make this clear: I have a low opinion of Naniwa, but an even lower opinion of you.
Except that I am not upset and my panties are not in a bunch. People are just discussing something on the internet. Or does doing that make them pathetic.
And I am not more pathetic than Nani'wa. I know how to do my job, even when it makes me grumpy.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticizing them when they fail. And yet achieving nothing for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell.
What the fuck are you talking about? Parasite? Nani'wa is the one who went full middle school girl on the main stage of IEM, no ETisME. That is why there is a 33 page thread about him, cause he went full retard.
Or are you trying to create some bullshit argument we are all wanna-bes and have achieved nothing like Nani'wa? Never mind the fact that his achievements are much less impressive without us all watching.
Did you not see my criticisms of him? Let me make this very simple for you: You are spending a great deal of time getting your panties in a bunch about someone you describe as a middle-school girl. That's what make you more pathetic than him. Don't try to straw man me and make me out to be attacking the entire community.
If you spent half as much time doing something for yourself as you did making more than thirteen thousand posts, you may have done something with your life. For now, it appears that isn't the case. That's what the fuck I am talking about. Deal with it.
Let me make this clear: I have a low opinion of Naniwa, but an even lower opinion of you.
Except that I am not upset and my panties are not in a bunch. People are just discussing something on the internet. Or does doing that make them pathetic.
And I am not more pathetic than Nani'wa. I know how to do my job, even when it makes me grumpy.
Discussing things on the internet does not make one pathetic. Going so far as to say Naniwa isn't worth a position at McDonalds is quite pathetic, and that's what I originally replied to. Go ahead and do your job that makes you grumpy. Some of us have the courage to pursue jobs that don't make us grumpy. Naniwa doesn't like his job anymore - so he stopped. We all only have one life. Don't pretend that the hamster wheel that is your life is reality for all of us, or that your inability to get off of it is a type of strength. Naniwa isn't happy doing what he is doing. It's not his responsibility to keep going or to feel trapped in what he is doing because of your individual world view. And don't even pretend to not know what I am telling you. "I know how to do my job, even when it makes me grumpy." That literally made me laugh out loud. You not liking your job, or even seldomly not liking it, has quite literally no bearing on what any other human being should do. Your existence and opinions, furthermore, will quite literally not influence naniwa in the slightest.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you concede defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you coincided defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
You coincided defeat by not responding to my arguments, and not explaining how they are flawed. You wrote a one sentence reply capped with "good day", that neither responded to anything I said nor made any coherent points (or any point at all) of your own. Grow up.
On March 23 2014 06:48 Blargh wrote: @Shinta) Fortunately, Naniwa did not break any tournament rules, right? I don't actually know why you brought that up. Now, it's entirely possible he did not follow his contract. Who the hell knows what his contract said. There's little point in using that as an argument, though.
All he really did was forfeit a tournament. People forfeit tournaments all of the time, and given his situation, I do not blame him at all for doing so. If ANY professional [sport] player hadn't played that sport in over a month, there would be zero chance he'd actually go to the event, especially if there was not even guaranteed prize money (in this case, it's 100k ONLY for 1st place).
Now, none of us know for certain what Naniwa had told Alliance prior, and vice versa, but assuming Naniwa had informed Alliance that he was not in any condition to play the tournament (that he hadn't played in forever), then Alliance should hold the blame for sending him and expecting anything out of it. No where did Naniwa say shitty things about his sponsors. Naniwa wasn't even that badly tempered at the event. He simply forfeited his series. He might have used the poor sound-cancelling as an excuse to forfeit, but it was clear that he had no desire to play in it, and the games would have been garbage.
He is now off of the team, so clearly Alliance did not like something that Naniwa did (or maybe what he didn't do, which was not play SC2 for a month). People saying that "If I did this in MY job, I'd be fired!!" don't seem to realize that he WAS fired. Alliance no longer had any reason to keep him on the team. It's only logical he would be removed. I'm pretty sure Naniwa knew that, too. That doesn't necessarily mean Naniwa did anything terrible. He just did something that didn't work for Alliance. People should direct their rage towards something actually bad, instead of some guy's choice to retire from the game.
Are you joking? I read one paragraph and realized I shouldn't read anymore. Nobody knows what his contract says, but I'm willing to bet that forfeiting a tournament for literally know reason except for lack of professionalism is a breech of contract. So there so many other ways you could have thought about what I had to say.
I have a feeling you also don't know that firing someone without proper evidence of a breech of contract is not allowed. You can't fire someone just because you don't work as hard, or just because you don't like them, they have to break the rules first.
Is anybody else curious why there hasn't been an official statement by EG/Alliance yet? They are supposedly the kings of PR, and turning bad PR into ok PR. Why the silence from them?
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you coincided defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
You coincided defeat by not responding to my arguments, and not explaining how they are flawed. You wrote a one sentence reply capped with "good day", that neither responded to anything I said nor made any coherent points (or any point at all) of your own. Grow up.
Pretty sure you guys are looking for concede not coincide
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you coincided defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
You coincided defeat by not responding to my arguments, and not explaining how they are flawed. You wrote a one sentence reply capped with "good day", that neither responded to anything I said nor made any coherent points (or any point at all) of your own. Grow up.
Pretty sure you guys are looking for concede not coincide
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you coincided defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
You coincided defeat by not responding to my arguments, and not explaining how they are flawed. You wrote a one sentence reply capped with "good day", that neither responded to anything I said nor made any coherent points (or any point at all) of your own. Grow up.
Pretty sure you guys are looking for concede not coincide
Right you are.
PS- Looks like plan six and I finally agree on something - though he assuredly will not respond to my last post that was in response to him. Especially given the childish nature of his last one liner, which I already explained and will quote back to him if necessary in the future, until he does respond to it. You're not getting out of it that easy bud ;-)
On March 24 2014 00:11 ETisME wrote: [quote] I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you coincided defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
You coincided defeat by not responding to my arguments, and not explaining how they are flawed. You wrote a one sentence reply capped with "good day", that neither responded to anything I said nor made any coherent points (or any point at all) of your own. Grow up.
Pretty sure you guys are looking for concede not coincide
Indeed. I used the wrong word. Thank you for pointing this out.
He did too I just thought it was the perfect place for a Princess Bride "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
To be fair, it's your initial argument that is bogus... We have to shut up and have no ability to criticize him because he's a pro and we're not? This just tells me you have no clue what you're talking about, but I read on anyways only to find that you really don't. You're saying that everyone on this site is an armchair professional just because you don't know us in person, and require proof of our relevance before even considering an argument or criticism valid? lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum.
Without criticism, there would be no greatness, and without greatness, the bar for achievement would be set so low that anyone would be able to achieve it. Why are there rules? Any kind of rules... Game rules, laws, even house rules that you make up? That's because people have criticized the opposite, and the community, whether it be 2 people or millions, have agreed to a standard and set the bar for others to follow. Nothing would progress otherwise. The world would still be a feudal place if people didn't care about "armchair professionals".
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you coincided defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
You coincided defeat by not responding to my arguments, and not explaining how they are flawed. You wrote a one sentence reply capped with "good day", that neither responded to anything I said nor made any coherent points (or any point at all) of your own. Grow up.
Pretty sure you guys are looking for concede not coincide
Indeed. I used the wrong word. Thank you for pointing this out.
He did too I just thought it was the perfect place for a Princess Bride "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"
Hahaha yes indeed. I thought it was funny. I am glad you can remind us all to be more light hearted.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
I am more confused than upset.
First I am told I can't critize him because his achievement is "higher" means we can't critize him.
Then you told me you are glad that achievements are all "relative".
But previously you were the one to say we should not critize due to him being one of the best foreigner and achieved higher than us. And yet you also critize him being a quitter and should not have done X and y. But at the same time you find it ridicous that people are upset about his actions, actions that you don't support either?
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
To be fair, it's your initial argument that is bogus... We have to shut up and have no ability to criticize him because he's a pro and we're not? This just tells me you have no clue what you're talking about, but I read on anyways only to find that you really don't. You're saying that everyone on this site is an armchair professional just because you don't know us in person, and require proof of our relevance before even considering an argument or criticism valid? lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum.
Without criticism, there would be no greatness, and without greatness, the bar for achievement would be set so low that anyone would be able to achieve it. Why are there rules? Any kind of rules... Game rules, laws, even house rules that you make up? That's because people have criticized the opposite, and the community, whether it be 2 people or millions, have agreed to a standard and set the bar for others to follow. Nothing would progress otherwise. The world would still be a feudal place if people didn't care about "armchair professionals".
Straw man again, you can criticize him. What's ironic is that I'm SEEMINGLY not allowed to criticize you. You don't need to shut up. I responded to the sentiment about him not being worthy of a McDonald's position, as I have elaborated on before. Whether or not you believe I have or haven't a clue of what I'm talking about is of no consequence to me. And yes, I require proof of one's relevance if they are going to attack someone in an online forum and insinuate that they are not worthy of a minimum wage job because they didn't want to play Starcraft professionally anymore. You didn't say that personally, but that's what I responded to.
"lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum?" - Good one dude!
I fully agree that without criticism there would be no greatness. That is PRECISELY why it is so FUNNY that if I criticize ANY of the people currently doing the criticizing (of naniwa) , they suddenly find it unacceptable to be critical!
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
I am more confused than upset.
First I am told I can't critize him because his achievement is "higher" means we can't critize him.
Then you told me you are glad that achievements are all "relative".
But previously you were the one to say we should not critize due to him being one of the best foreigner and achieved higher than us. And yet you also critize him being a quitter and should not have done X and y. But at the same time you find it ridicous that people are upset about his actions, actions that you don't support either?
What?
Please find and quote to me where I EVER said that people can't criticize him. Oh wait - I never said that. Again, nice try with the straw man. Especially given all the criticisms of him that I listed myself?
. I don't support his actions, but I don't go on a forum crusade against him. I'm not sure what you're confused about - this isn't about me or Naniwa. I'm just of the opinion that it's pathetic for you to judge him. You can criticize him, and I can criticize you for criticizing him. Get it? It's a two way street, be a grown up about it please.
On March 23 2014 06:48 Blargh wrote: @Shinta) Fortunately, Naniwa did not break any tournament rules, right? I don't actually know why you brought that up. Now, it's entirely possible he did not follow his contract. Who the hell knows what his contract said. There's little point in using that as an argument, though.
All he really did was forfeit a tournament. People forfeit tournaments all of the time, and given his situation, I do not blame him at all for doing so. If ANY professional [sport] player hadn't played that sport in over a month, there would be zero chance he'd actually go to the event, especially if there was not even guaranteed prize money (in this case, it's 100k ONLY for 1st place).
Now, none of us know for certain what Naniwa had told Alliance prior, and vice versa, but assuming Naniwa had informed Alliance that he was not in any condition to play the tournament (that he hadn't played in forever), then Alliance should hold the blame for sending him and expecting anything out of it. No where did Naniwa say shitty things about his sponsors. Naniwa wasn't even that badly tempered at the event. He simply forfeited his series. He might have used the poor sound-cancelling as an excuse to forfeit, but it was clear that he had no desire to play in it, and the games would have been garbage.
He is now off of the team, so clearly Alliance did not like something that Naniwa did (or maybe what he didn't do, which was not play SC2 for a month). People saying that "If I did this in MY job, I'd be fired!!" don't seem to realize that he WAS fired. Alliance no longer had any reason to keep him on the team. It's only logical he would be removed. I'm pretty sure Naniwa knew that, too. That doesn't necessarily mean Naniwa did anything terrible. He just did something that didn't work for Alliance. People should direct their rage towards something actually bad, instead of some guy's choice to retire from the game.
Are you joking? I read one paragraph and realized I shouldn't read anymore. Nobody knows what his contract says, but I'm willing to bet that forfeiting a tournament for literally know reason except for lack of professionalism is a breech of contract. So there so many other ways you could have thought about what I had to say.
I have a feeling you also don't know that firing someone without proper evidence of a breech of contract is not allowed. You can't fire someone just because you don't work as hard, or just because you don't like them, they have to break the rules first.
I'm sure Idra has failed to follow his contract in some way multiple times, but EG didn't kick him for those (until the last thing). I know little about contracts in e-sports, but I imagine EG/A could manage to fire just about any player on their team at any point in time for some reason or another. Not that EG/Alliance would... but even if someone was "wrongfully terminated", I don't think anyone in e-sports except EG/A and Kespa could or would ever bother with lawsuits. I was never arguing that Naniwa shouldn't be removed from Alliance (as I state in my post, actually).
And I feel like I made a fairly decent point in the latter paragraphs. It's truly a shame you missed out on them.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
I am more confused than upset.
First I am told I can't critize him because his achievement is "higher" means we can't critize him.
Then you told me you are glad that achievements are all "relative".
But previously you were the one to say we should not critize due to him being one of the best foreigner and achieved higher than us. And yet you also critize him being a quitter and should not have done X and y. But at the same time you find it ridicous that people are upset about his actions, actions that you don't support either?
What?
Please find and quote to me where I EVER said that people can't criticize him. Oh wait - I never said that. Again, nice try with the straw man. Especially given all the criticisms of him that I listed myself?
. I don't support his actions, but I don't go on a forum crusade against him. I'm not sure what you're confused about - this isn't about me or Naniwa. I'm just of the opinion that it's pathetic for you to judge him. You can criticize him, and I can criticize you for criticizing him. Get it? It's a two way street, be a grown up about it please.
"Stop judging others using your own life experience."
I think that's the line people are having issues with. You telling them to stop judging.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
I am more confused than upset.
First I am told I can't critize him because his achievement is "higher" means we can't critize him.
Then you told me you are glad that achievements are all "relative".
But previously you were the one to say we should not critize due to him being one of the best foreigner and achieved higher than us. And yet you also critize him being a quitter and should not have done X and y. But at the same time you find it ridicous that people are upset about his actions, actions that you don't support either?
What?
Please find and quote to me where I EVER said that people can't criticize him. Oh wait - I never said that. Again, nice try with the straw man. Especially given all the criticisms of him that I listed myself?
. I don't support his actions, but I don't go on a forum crusade against him. I'm not sure what you're confused about - this isn't about me or Naniwa. I'm just of the opinion that it's pathetic for you to judge him. You can criticize him, and I can criticize you for criticizing him. Get it? It's a two way street, be a grown up about it please.
"Stop judging others using your own life experience."
I think that's the line people are having issues with. You telling them to stop judging.
That's too bad cause I'll say it again : stop judging. sorry if you have issues with that buddy
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
I am more confused than upset.
First I am told I can't critize him because his achievement is "higher" means we can't critize him.
Then you told me you are glad that achievements are all "relative".
But previously you were the one to say we should not critize due to him being one of the best foreigner and achieved higher than us. And yet you also critize him being a quitter and should not have done X and y. But at the same time you find it ridicous that people are upset about his actions, actions that you don't support either?
What?
Please find and quote to me where I EVER said that people can't criticize him. Oh wait - I never said that. Again, nice try with the straw man. Especially given all the criticisms of him that I listed myself?
. I don't support his actions, but I don't go on a forum crusade against him. I'm not sure what you're confused about - this isn't about me or Naniwa. I'm just of the opinion that it's pathetic for you to judge him.
That is even more confusing.
Why would you not be pathetic when you judge both naniwa actions and people including me who judge naniwa...
Doesn't that mean you also find yourself pathetic...?
Leaving a few comments is not forum crusade. It's called leaving your thoughts and comments.
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
I am more confused than upset.
First I am told I can't critize him because his achievement is "higher" means we can't critize him.
Then you told me you are glad that achievements are all "relative".
But previously you were the one to say we should not critize due to him being one of the best foreigner and achieved higher than us. And yet you also critize him being a quitter and should not have done X and y. But at the same time you find it ridicous that people are upset about his actions, actions that you don't support either?
What?
Please find and quote to me where I EVER said that people can't criticize him. Oh wait - I never said that. Again, nice try with the straw man. Especially given all the criticisms of him that I listed myself?
. I don't support his actions, but I don't go on a forum crusade against him. I'm not sure what you're confused about - this isn't about me or Naniwa. I'm just of the opinion that it's pathetic for you to judge him.
That is even more confusing.
when you judge both naniwa actions and also judge people including me who judge naniwa and find us pathetic
Doesn't that mean you also find yourself pathetic...?
Leaving a few comments is not forum crusade. It's called leaving your thoughts and comments.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
I am more confused than upset.
First I am told I can't critize him because his achievement is "higher" means we can't critize him.
Then you told me you are glad that achievements are all "relative".
But previously you were the one to say we should not critize due to him being one of the best foreigner and achieved higher than us. And yet you also critize him being a quitter and should not have done X and y. But at the same time you find it ridicous that people are upset about his actions, actions that you don't support either?
What?
Please find and quote to me where I EVER said that people can't criticize him. Oh wait - I never said that. Again, nice try with the straw man. Especially given all the criticisms of him that I listed myself?
. I don't support his actions, but I don't go on a forum crusade against him. I'm not sure what you're confused about - this isn't about me or Naniwa. I'm just of the opinion that it's pathetic for you to judge him.
That is even more confusing.
Why would you not be pathetic when you judge both naniwa actions and people including me who judge naniwa...
Doesn't that mean you also find yourself pathetic...?
Leaving a few comments is not forum crusade. It's called leaving your thoughts and comments.
Hahahaha, I am not judging you, I am the only one in the last few pages who has made a specific point of saying that I can be and often am wrong. Furthermore, and most importantly, I responded to the judging of others by you, not the other way around. Don't try to turn this around on me. It's really not that confusing.
By the way, don't quote your own posts back at me when you never responded to mine.
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
Thanks. I'll pat myself on the back extra for providing this further response. It's always good to find the point.
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
Thanks. I'll pat myself on the back extra for providing this further response. It's always good to find the point.
That's fantastic. Meanwhile I will forget your very forgettable, yet slightly witty retorts (as well as your existence) by the time I wake up tomorrow. I do believe we have reached an understanding, oh smartass of smartasses?
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
Thanks. I'll pat myself on the back extra for providing this further response. It's always good to find the point.
That's fantastic. Meanwhile I will forget your very forgettable, yet slightly witty retorts (as well as your existence) by the time I wake up tomorrow. I do believe we have reached an understanding, oh smartass of smartasses?
Certainly! I hope this helps to clear everything up for Plansix and ETisME~
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
Thanks. I'll pat myself on the back extra for providing this further response. It's always good to find the point.
That's fantastic. Meanwhile I will forget your very forgettable, yet slightly witty retorts (as well as your existence) by the time I wake up tomorrow. I do believe we have reached an understanding, oh smartass of smartasses?
Certainly! I hope this helps to clear everything up for Plansix and ETisME~
Also going back to topic, the official statement is taking a long time. I wonder what's the hold back.
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
Thanks. I'll pat myself on the back extra for providing this further response. It's always good to find the point.
That's fantastic. Meanwhile I will forget your very forgettable, yet slightly witty retorts (as well as your existence) by the time I wake up tomorrow. I do believe we have reached an understanding, oh smartass of smartasses?
Certainly! I hope this helps to clear everything up for Plansix and ETisME~
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. I may very well be wrong about you, but I do not believe I am wrong about your attitude in this case. It would be much easier to respect you if you spent time ensuring your own actions reflected the sentiments and criticisms that you project onto someone you have never met, not even once in your whole life. To me, you are a fool. It is okay to disagree with me and I am often wrong. But that is the difference between us, isn't it? The ability to think critically.
Wait, so now we need to weight our personal achievements before we can criticize public figures? So I have to accomplish as much as the president before I can voice my disapprove of his actions?
Straw man again, Notice I never said anything about having to accomplish as much as the president before you can voice your disapproval of his actions. You have every right to voice your disapproval of Naniwa, and I have every right to voice my disapproval of you.
What is ironic is that you take such offense at someone voicing disproval of YOUR actions. Yet you have no qualms in dispensing with such judgements as long as it as at the expense of others.
PS- I never talked about myself at all, and never will. My response are strictly related to your unwarranted criticisms of someone you have never met. Try again.
I am glad you coincided defeat in your flawed argument. Good day.
You coincided defeat by not responding to my arguments, and not explaining how they are flawed. You wrote a one sentence reply capped with "good day", that neither responded to anything I said nor made any coherent points (or any point at all) of your own. Grow up.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
To be fair, it's your initial argument that is bogus... We have to shut up and have no ability to criticize him because he's a pro and we're not? This just tells me you have no clue what you're talking about, but I read on anyways only to find that you really don't. You're saying that everyone on this site is an armchair professional just because you don't know us in person, and require proof of our relevance before even considering an argument or criticism valid? lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum.
Without criticism, there would be no greatness, and without greatness, the bar for achievement would be set so low that anyone would be able to achieve it. Why are there rules? Any kind of rules... Game rules, laws, even house rules that you make up? That's because people have criticized the opposite, and the community, whether it be 2 people or millions, have agreed to a standard and set the bar for others to follow. Nothing would progress otherwise. The world would still be a feudal place if people didn't care about "armchair professionals".
Straw man again, you can criticize him. What's ironic is that I'm SEEMINGLY not allowed to criticize you. You don't need to shut up. I responded to the sentiment about him not being worthy of a McDonald's position, as I have elaborated on before. Whether or not you believe I have or haven't a clue of what I'm talking about is of no consequence to me. And yes, I require proof of one's relevance if they are going to attack someone in an online forum and insinuate that they are not worthy of a minimum wage job because they didn't want to play Starcraft professionally anymore. You didn't say that personally, but that's what I responded to.
"lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum?" - Good one dude!
I fully agree that without criticism there would be no greatness. That is PRECISELY why it is so FUNNY that if I criticize ANY of the people currently doing the criticizing (of naniwa) , they suddenly find it unacceptable to be critical!
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
Thanks. I'll pat myself on the back extra for providing this further response. It's always good to find the point.
That's fantastic. Meanwhile I will forget your very forgettable,yet slightly witty retorts (as well as your existence) by the time I wake up tomorrow. I do believe we have reached an understanding, oh smartass of smartasses?
From this fervent disagreement, both embroiled in a passionate exchange of words; sparked the beginnings of banter more accepting of one another. Showing hints of approval.
On March 24 2014 01:40 plogamer wrote: staph judging people who are judging other people.
Case closed. JSK is hypocrite. And GL Naniwa, please become a smash bros melee progamer! I think marth suits the protoss playstyle.
because calling a bigot a bigot is hypocritical! Once again, the bigots always say: "if you're so tolerant, why can't you tolerate my intolerance?! Hypocrite!!!" (just an example, don't freak out) you finished it off with a nice balance/playstyle complaint as well! masterful.
Classic case of: can dish it out , but can't take it. Criticizing judgmental people does not make me judgmental. That is weak and a cop out
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
On March 24 2014 01:42 JinDesu wrote: So.. the takeaway is that we can judge/criticize Naniwa, you can call us out on it, and we can ignore you on it, yes?
Absolutely. Despite how much you may be patting yourself on the back for what you think was a witty retort, that is precisely the point.
Thanks. I'll pat myself on the back extra for providing this further response. It's always good to find the point.
That's fantastic. Meanwhile I will forget your very forgettable,yet slightly witty retorts (as well as your existence) by the time I wake up tomorrow. I do believe we have reached an understanding, oh smartass of smartasses?
From this fervent disagreement, both embroiled in a passionate exchange of words; sparked the beginnings of banter more accepting of one another. Showing hints of approval.
Get a room, you two. It's too adorable.
I gotta admit, I was happy to see that I qualified for at the very least, slightly witty. But enough off topic from me. I am not a Naniwa fan, and I didn't care too much about his exit of the tournament. I'm all for the semantics that "you can criticize them, but I can also criticize you", but it becomes a bit of a circle jerk like the last few pages.
Some of you guys on this forum have WAY too much on their hands to have so many emotional breakdowns for a topic that shouldn't have much impact on your lives *chuckles*
On March 24 2014 01:40 plogamer wrote: staph judging people who are judging other people.
Case closed. JSK is hypocrite. And GL Naniwa, please become a smash bros melee progamer! I think marth suits the protoss playstyle.
because calling a bigot a bigot is hypocritical! you finished it off with a nice balance/playstyle complaint as well! masterful.
Yes! Because you assume we can't call you a bigot for doing so. You're special apparently. And marth is pretty fun man and well respected character. Why so negative on something you know nothing about?
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Relax dude. You're way to upset looking at the amount of edits you do. Take a breath and then clearly state your points, you've fallen to inconsistent babble while trying to be edgy and adding a snarky remark in every post.
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
Yeah, the thread has gone full amazing at this point. Its one man against the internet, but he will win.
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Relax dude. You're way to upset looking at the amount of edits you do. Take a breath and then clearly state your points, you've fallen to inconsistent babble while trying to be edgy and adding a snarky remark in every post.
this was meaningless as you made no specific points, not sure how to respond. it is something i am passionate about, whether you think i am "too upset" or not really does not matter to me, because your opinion does not matter to me
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
Yeah, the thread has gone full amazing at this point. Its one man against the internet, but he will win.
I can't win against someone who has time to make as many posts on the internets as you, that's for sure. And I certainly can't win against someone as amazingly witty as you.
You're missing the point: I don't think I will convince anyone at all. This is enjoyable.
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Relax dude. You're way to upset looking at the amount of edits you do. Take a breath and then clearly state your points, you've fallen to inconsistent babble while trying to be edgy and adding a snarky remark in every post.
this was meaningless as you made no specific points, not sure how to respond. it is something i am passionate about, whether you think i am "too upset" or not really does not matter to me, because your opinion does not matter to me
So you don't care about others opinions or what they think of the discussion....
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
Yeah, the thread has gone full amazing at this point. Its one man against the internet, but he will win.
I can't win against someone who has time to make as many posts on the internets as you, that's for sure. And I certainly can't win against someone as amazingly witty as you.
You're missing the point: I don't think I will convince anyone at all. This is enjoyable.
Ok, the discussion is over, he is citing posts counts. No further rational discussion can be had at this point.
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Relax dude. You're way to upset looking at the amount of edits you do. Take a breath and then clearly state your points, you've fallen to inconsistent babble while trying to be edgy and adding a snarky remark in every post.
this was meaningless as you made no specific points, not sure how to respond. it is something i am passionate about, whether you think i am "too upset" or not really does not matter to me, because your opinion does not matter to me
So you don't care about others opinions or what they think of the discussion....
So why are you having it again?
Plansix - the answer is simple. Because he can. He can criticize you, just as you can criticize Nani. Etc etc.
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Relax dude. You're way to upset looking at the amount of edits you do. Take a breath and then clearly state your points, you've fallen to inconsistent babble while trying to be edgy and adding a snarky remark in every post.
this was meaningless as you made no specific points, not sure how to respond. it is something i am passionate about, whether you think i am "too upset" or not really does not matter to me, because your opinion does not matter to me
So you don't care about others opinions or what they think of the discussion....
So why are you having it again?
Plansix - the answer is simple. Because he can. He can criticize you, just as you can criticize Nani. Etc etc.
Oh sweet. Didn't we already know that? Just like people are entitled to their opinions and I can tell them their opinions are dumb.
On March 24 2014 01:40 plogamer wrote: staph judging people who are judging other people.
Case closed. JSK is hypocrite. And GL Naniwa, please become a smash bros melee progamer! I think marth suits the protoss playstyle.
because calling a bigot a bigot is hypocritical! you finished it off with a nice balance/playstyle complaint as well! masterful.
Yes! Because you assume we can't call you a bigot for doing so. You're special apparently. And marth is pretty fun man and well respected character. Why so negative on something you know nothing about?
I had to remind my brain to breath after reading this sentence. Congratulations on constructing such a mentally incapacitating post. I do assume you can't call me a bigot for criticizing your criticisms, yes. lmaooo
btw i am a fucking fanatic when it comes to SSBM, I played sheik and marth, i am PSYCHED that TL is coming out with SSMB section!!! :-)
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Relax dude. You're way to upset looking at the amount of edits you do. Take a breath and then clearly state your points, you've fallen to inconsistent babble while trying to be edgy and adding a snarky remark in every post.
this was meaningless as you made no specific points, not sure how to respond. it is something i am passionate about, whether you think i am "too upset" or not really does not matter to me, because your opinion does not matter to me
So you don't care about others opinions or what they think of the discussion....
So why are you having it again?
I absolutely care, but condescending posts about whether or not someone thinks I am too upset, or am rambling or whatever, 1) will not make me feel bad since this is completely anonymous 2) made no specific point about why or what indicated that I am too upset, so I'm not sure how to respond
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
It has gotten hilarious, even more so with this gem of a contribution. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across- that the internet is a more appropriate place for judging people? Or that the internet is not to be taken seriously? Whatever man, get your popcorn and up that post count buddy, clearly all five thousand plus were really significant
And yes, this is great entertainment. Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Relax dude. You're way to upset looking at the amount of edits you do. Take a breath and then clearly state your points, you've fallen to inconsistent babble while trying to be edgy and adding a snarky remark in every post.
this was meaningless as you made no specific points, not sure how to respond. it is something i am passionate about, whether you think i am "too upset" or not really does not matter to me, because your opinion does not matter to me
So you don't care about others opinions or what they think of the discussion....
So why are you having it again?
Plansix - the answer is simple. Because he can. He can criticize you, just as you can criticize Nani. Etc etc.
Thank you. I guess whoever mentioned we should get a room is right. You turn me on, and I won't ever forget your existence. You will be in my thoughts always, Jindesu. Forever and always.
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
Yeah, the thread has gone full amazing at this point. Its one man against the internet, but he will win.
I can't win against someone who has time to make as many posts on the internets as you, that's for sure. And I certainly can't win against someone as amazingly witty as you.
You're missing the point: I don't think I will convince anyone at all. This is enjoyable.
Ok, the discussion is over, he is citing posts counts. No further rational discussion can be had at this point.
You still haven't responded to multiple posts I made directed at you. No rational discussion was going to ever be had. You're entirely too selective about what you reply to and what you don't. It seems to me you care entirely too much about being showing off on an internet forum than discussing anything with any substance. Your post count and number of meaningless one-liners are evidence enough of that. I feel as if you are very insecure.
Whereas I for example, do not care because "JSK" is an internet entity that means nothing to me. You are obviously much more invested in this than me. That is what I am getting at by your post count. If I cared for the approval of various forum-goers I would not be making these posts. I think it's enjoyable to argue with people like you. Call me crazy.
I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance.
And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem.
On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote: Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people....
If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think.
On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote: I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance.
And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem.
On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote: Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people....
If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think.
Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else?
I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us.
You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual.
If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first.
None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant.
If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
You people are pathetic. Both sides of the argument. We are well past the point where most sane people would have realised that all this hatred and judgement of Naniwa, Alliance, IEM and eachother is too childish for words.
On March 24 2014 02:43 Mikau wrote: You people are pathetic. Both sides of the argument. We are well past the point where most sane people would have realised that all this hatred and judgement of Naniwa, Alliance, IEM and eachother is too childish for words.
I'll take it - call me pathetic, I agree with the rest of your words enough to wholeheartedly agree with this one.
1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job.
This is the biggest point people didn't realize. I think they saw your post and thought you were generalizing to all people who were judging. Too many useless witty statements ended up distracting people from it.
Some people said something stupid and you turn stupid as well? At least shit on the right people instead of calling out people who felt upset about what he did.
Most things aren't black and white but it doesn't mean you don't get a say or opinion on things. Terrorists are still bad even if they have reasons leading to their horrible acts.
Our society won't be able to function if we can't even pin point what is right and what is wrong just because there is always another side to the story. We learn to adjust the punishment based on the reasoning and the attitude of the person.
What he did was horrible for every party involved. His reasoning wasn't good enough for many of us to give him a pass for this one.
Some comments might have gone too far but do you really feel surprised at people feeling upset for his actions? Do you feel we are pathetic to have a negative opinion on him when his excuse is fairly poor and deemed unacceptable?
He blamed on the tournament sound proof, he blamed the management, then he publicly says he hate the community (ish)
Come on.
And macdonald job is service heavy, do you think naniwa is even suitable for a job like that? Just because a job has a low skill requirement doesn't mean everyone is suited for the job.
On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote: I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance.
And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem.
On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote: Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people....
If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think.
Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else?
I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us.
You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual.
If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first.
None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant.
If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote: Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that?
I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2.
Btw, GJ Alliance
You seem to think that real jobs have much resemblance to being a professional SC2 player. Basically, the two ways of being successful in SC2 is either by promoting your sponsors a shit-ton (look at Incontrol) or by being skilled, indirectly promoting your sponsors (every Korean? Naniwa?). So, Naniwa only cared about being #1 (the best). His poor attitude is a result of that. There are very few situations where one would ever hold that kind of competitive mindset in their job. In addition, Naniwa only had his "job" (was part of Alliance), not so much to make money, but to be able to play the game. If he were to have a real job, it's incredibly unlikely he would behave in such a way, since he'd probably only be doing it to make money.
Also, in real life, it actually is quite common to have a highly skilled or talented employee who has TERRIBLE public relations. A lot of scientists are like that. Their motive is to progress science while the motive of the employer is to make something marketable.
Every time you guys say "GJ Alliance", I just sigh. Where did they do a good job? By firing an employee who basically quit their job, ANYWAY? Like, yeah, that's pretty logical. I don't keep paying people who quit their job, either. What wasn't a good job was sending Naniwa to the event. That was a bad job. The reason Alliance had Naniwa on the team was because he was skilled and seen as one of the best foreign players. Since he was not even close to "one of the best foreign players" at that point (he hadn't played in a month), they were basically asking him to go there and lose 3 games to Polt. Naniwa had no shits left to give, and Alliance expected otherwise.
It's entirely possible that Alliance would have kept Naniwa on the team, even as a non-SC2 player, had he... actually cared at the event and maybe, cheesed all 3 games instead of cheesing 1 and forfeiting... But who knows?
You have an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation. This situation goes beyond public relations. As you said, Naniwa was never the player to care about his image in the scene, promoting sponsors or appeasing the management. If you aren't going to do any of those you better at least PLAY THE GAME. He's always lauded as a player that "doesn't give a shit" about anything about the game itself and winning so it's pretty hilarious that in the end he goes out without even fighting. Naniwa's parallel to a real world scientist would be a scientist refusing to do anything in the lab and then crying when his supervisor tells him to pack his bags. Not to mention those scientists have probably worked for years obtaining a Phd or building valuable lab experience. What does Naniwa have, half a high school degree? As others have said, with his attitude I'm not even sure he'd be able to secure a job at McDonalds. Anyone who's worked in the real world can tell you there's virtually no room for this kind of behavior.
What exactly do you have? The time on your hands to write about someone who in your words isn't even significant enough to warrant a job at Mcdonalds? What does that make you? Laughable, that's what. Spew all the rage at me you want. You're a professional at one thing: accumulating a high post count on a forum (albeit, the best forum I've ever had the pleasure of taking part in, but nonetheless.) By the way, how is he not in "the real world"? Was his experience as a professional hallucinated? And don't give me some bullshit about how your job is more important or more based in reality. You tell yourself that because Naniwa had the courage to pursue something he loved despite his family nearly disowning him for it, while you didn't. Just don't buddy. It is you that has an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation, but you cannot see that - because the truly ignorant do not know they are ignorant. No doubt you will respond with some defensive, incoherent babble. I welcome it, but I will not read it- so I would not bother if I were you.
PS - I disagree with many things Naniwa did because I want the best for the Starcraft scene. That does not mean the rage in this thread is justified.
The post you respond to is really quite factual and to the point. You respond with personal insults. You blow the McDonald-portion way out of proportion, he never says Naniwa doesn't deserve a job at McDonalds. You seem to take his post as a personal insult.
ETisMe, you're right. Naniwa probably doesn't qualify for a job at McD. He most likely wouldn't be able to put on the fake smile eight hours a day.
Other than that, I just want to show my support for JSK. Sadly, I think it's a lost cause to even try to argue these points to this crowd. Those who it would do well to listen to them, won't ever do so, and the rest of us are just him preaching to the choir. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted though, so I'm grateful their thoughts come into the open. Blargh made some good posts too. Thanks for guys for championing a point I believe many stand behind but are too tired to vocalize anymore. Be wary that the slightest mistakes you make in your posts will be attacked and used to distract from the main points.
On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote: I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance.
And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem.
On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote: Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people....
If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think.
Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else?
I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us.
You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual.
If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first.
None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant.
If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
It's funny you talk about my post count as if it means anything. I barely post on this forum as of late.
Contrary to what you believe, many of us are basing our opinions on much more than just personal experience. We are taking into account tons of parallels. Yes, in most of our experience there is virtually 0 tolerance for this kind of behavior in the everyday workforce. I'm sorry if this insults you but E-Sports is still in it's infancy... It has a very long way to go in many aspects. Teams such as EG/Alliance are doing a great job at pushing for this professional environment by enforcing contracts, rules ,and regulations.
If a Football or Basketball player for example, decided to just quit playing halfway through a game or a season there would be fines at the very least and quite possibly more severe consequences. Players who repeatedly display this kind of attitude or lack of professionalism would be punished more and most likely without a job. Sure, if you're a Lebron, Jordan, Ronaldo, a superstar among superstars then maybe you will get some leeway. But even those guys all show more dedication and sense than Naniwa. Whos the last Kespa player that stormed off the stage to make angry tweets? If there was one we probably dont hear about him anymore because hes not playing for a team.
Now to get a bit real, sorry if this sounds scathing. Did Naniwa finish highshcool? I recall reading that he dropped school to go pro at WC3 and eventually SC2. It's a well known phenomenon in sports such as soccer/football, basketball and american football for uneducated players to blow all their money (usually small fortunes in traditional sports) within years of leaving their league. These players arent necessarily stupid but theyve spent every day learning a highly specific sport, not how to manage money or navigate the real world.
Yes, there is a "real world" that exists and when you practice a game for 8-10 hours a day or years you might not fully understand things like dealing with taxes, or putting a mortgage down, investing your money, etc. So yes.. no high school degree, no relevant job skills.. our personal opinion doesn't weigh in too much when we say that doesn't qualify you for much. And again, based on logic, a job you land with those qualifications is going to be entry level where you are easily replaced. There is not going to be any tolerance for hissy fits and breaking the rules.
On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote: This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet. *popcorn*
Yeah, the thread has gone full amazing at this point. Its one man against the internet, but he will win.
I can't win against someone who has time to make as many posts on the internets as you, that's for sure. And I certainly can't win against someone as amazingly witty as you.
You're missing the point: I don't think I will convince anyone at all. This is enjoyable.
Ok, the discussion is over, he is citing posts counts. No further rational discussion can be had at this point.
You still haven't responded to multiple posts I made directed at you. No rational discussion was going to ever be had. You're entirely too selective about what you reply to and what you don't. It seems to me you care entirely too much about being showing off on an internet forum than discussing anything with any substance. Your post count and number of meaningless one-liners are evidence enough of that. I feel as if you are very insecure.
Whereas I for example, do not care because "JSK" is an internet entity that means nothing to me. You are obviously much more invested in this than me. That is what I am getting at by your post count. If I cared for the approval of various forum-goers I would not be making these posts. I think it's enjoyable to argue with people like you. Call me crazy.
Double post maniac!!! LMFAO Personality like your beloved Naniwhine huh.
Seems like things aren't working out well for you. Seeing as you are spending such unhealthy amount of time in this thread. I hope things turn around for you.
On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote: I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance.
And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem.
On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote: Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people....
If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think.
Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else?
I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us.
You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual.
If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first.
None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant.
If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
It's funny you talk about my post count as if it means anything. I barely post on this forum as of late.
Contrary to what you believe, many of us are basing our opinions on much more than just personal experience. We are taking into account tons of parallels. Yes, in most of our experience there is virtually 0 tolerance for this kind of behavior in the everyday workforce. I'm sorry if this insults you but E-Sports is still in it's infancy... It has a very long way to go in many aspects. Teams such as EG/Alliance are doing a great job at pushing for this professional environment by enforcing contracts, rules ,and regulations.
If a Football or Basketball player for example, decided to just quit playing halfway through a game or a season there would be fines at the very least and quite possibly more severe consequences. Players who repeatedly display this kind of attitude or lack of professionalism would be punished more and most likely without a job. Sure, if you're a Lebron, Jordan, Ronaldo, a superstar among superstars then maybe you will get some leeway. But even those guys all show more dedication and sense than Naniwa. Whos the last Kespa player that stormed off the stage to make angry tweets? If there was one we probably dont hear about him anymore because hes not playing for a team.
Now to get a bit real, sorry if this sounds scathing. Did Naniwa finish highshcool? I recall reading that he dropped school to go pro at WC3 and eventually SC2. It's a well known phenomenon in sports such as soccer/football, basketball and american football for uneducated players to blow all their money (usually small fortunes in traditional sports) within years of leaving their league. These players arent necessarily stupid but theyve spent every day learning a highly specific sport, not how to manage money or navigate the real world.
Yes, there is a "real world" that exists and when you practice a game for 8-10 hours a day or years you might not fully understand things like dealing with taxes, or putting a mortgage down, investing your money, etc. So yes.. no high school degree, no relevant job skills.. our personal opinion doesn't weigh in too much when we say that doesn't qualify you for much. And again, based on logic, a job you land with those qualifications is going to be entry level where you are easily replaced. There is not going to be any tolerance for hissy fits and breaking the rules.
Indeed there is. Why don't you all go join it instead of writing multiple paragraphs of utter garbage that barely anyone is going to read or care about.
Well, he did say he doesn't want to play SC2 so he would have left the team anyways. Plus, after he walked off I'm not surprised at all that the tam let him go.
On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote: So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening.
I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness.
But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation.
I guess in a sense its an achievement lol
It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more.
? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol
My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview.
I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others.
And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else.
Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle.
Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize.
naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar?
One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context.
My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream.
Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am.
On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize.
Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic.
I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao)
Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow.
To be fair, it's your initial argument that is bogus... We have to shut up and have no ability to criticize him because he's a pro and we're not? This just tells me you have no clue what you're talking about, but I read on anyways only to find that you really don't. You're saying that everyone on this site is an armchair professional just because you don't know us in person, and require proof of our relevance before even considering an argument or criticism valid? lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum.
Without criticism, there would be no greatness, and without greatness, the bar for achievement would be set so low that anyone would be able to achieve it. Why are there rules? Any kind of rules... Game rules, laws, even house rules that you make up? That's because people have criticized the opposite, and the community, whether it be 2 people or millions, have agreed to a standard and set the bar for others to follow. Nothing would progress otherwise. The world would still be a feudal place if people didn't care about "armchair professionals".
Straw man again, you can criticize him. What's ironic is that I'm SEEMINGLY not allowed to criticize you. You don't need to shut up. I responded to the sentiment about him not being worthy of a McDonald's position, as I have elaborated on before. Whether or not you believe I have or haven't a clue of what I'm talking about is of no consequence to me. And yes, I require proof of one's relevance if they are going to attack someone in an online forum and insinuate that they are not worthy of a minimum wage job because they didn't want to play Starcraft professionally anymore. You didn't say that personally, but that's what I responded to.
"lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum?" - Good one dude!
I fully agree that without criticism there would be no greatness. That is PRECISELY why it is so FUNNY that if I criticize ANY of the people currently doing the criticizing (of naniwa) , they suddenly find it unacceptable to be critical!
If you can't take it, don't dish it out brotha
What? Why wouldn't you be able to criticize me? Just post something legitimate and I'll read it. You may have initially responded to some McDonnalds post, but I responded to the post I quoted. Regardless of what you started off fighting for, you either got off topic or were too zealous and said a few things that didn't belong.
If somebody says NaNiWa is complete trash and doesn't deserve to live, that person is either really angry and isn't thinking straight, or wasn't raised properly in my opinion. McDonnalds thing falls under similar lines. You can criticize them, but what you said and I responded to was not something you can't legitimately say and expect people to continue listening to you. You throw away your own credibility, ironically, after speaking of others credibility.
Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote: Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more.
On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote: Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
Exactly. You don't get to be arguably the best Caucasian in SC2 without some serious dedication.
He's also made a fair bit of quid, and we all know college is a piece of piss for rich people.
meh, Defending him or not. His attitude is not meant for a team. Unless that team is filled with constant trolls. Then he can complain and be angry all the time. I can't say I am glad he is gone, but people who don't have the right mindset and is poor sport towards the community don't belong in the Esports Scene. Which dropping games purposely and rumbling about nonsense is a dis to the community as a whole. I am not a known person, but I do run a gaming community of my own for last 5 years, and I wouldn't tolerate any of his nonsense. One time maybe, but after that get da ban hammer. It hurts everyone around you to be negative all the time and just throw excuses instead of manning up to your problems. Its also like a leech if they some how manage to get close with other players he can drag them down to his level and it just spreads.
maybe jsk is naniwa... hehehe~ if nani was in kespa, im confident he will be punished in some way... there is absolutely no way kespa will just sit and do nothing....
On March 24 2014 08:47 riyanme wrote: maybe jsk is naniwa... hehehe~ if nani was in kespa, im confident he will be punished in some way... there is absolutely no way kespa will just sit and do nothing....
Do you think he can go through GSL Code A?. I think he can if he keep practicing, he was gifted among the foreigner but with this attitude he can't go far. Naniwa... u are good player but not good in manner.... Please be a MAN!!!
On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote: Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more.
Talent and fame gets you leverage. Beethoven acted very similar to Naniwa during his lifetime but nobody gave a shit because he's fucking Beethoven and smoked every other composer living in his day.
Rule: if you want to act unique, you need to become the best first. Naniwa has accomplished that somewhat.
On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote: Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
he wouldn't even be able to hold a job at mcdonalds
hey naniwa, i ordered a big mac with no big mac sauce
*naniwa walks off* posts anti-mcdonald comments on twitter
On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote: Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more.
Talent and fame gets you leverage. Beethoven acted very similar to Naniwa during his lifetime but nobody gave a shit because he's fucking Beethoven and smoked every other composer living in his day.
Rule: if you want to act unique, you need to become the best first. Naniwa has accomplished that somewhat.
Alliance didn't tolerate naniwa so he lacked the talent and fame to gain leverage for his actions
On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote: Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more.
Talent and fame gets you leverage. Beethoven acted very similar to Naniwa during his lifetime but nobody gave a shit because he's fucking Beethoven and smoked every other composer living in his day.
Rule: if you want to act unique, you need to become the best first. Naniwa has accomplished that somewhat.
Alliance didn't tolerate naniwa so he lacked the talent and fame to gain leverage for his actions
You don't want to do your job anymore you tell them as soon as you know. Hopefully it's the 2 weeks you should give to let them prepare but if not you just don't show up.
You don't show up and leave an upperdecker in the women's bathroom then come out wagging your dick at people (well unless they really treated you like shit or want to be you tube famous). But based off Naniwa I'd say it's safe to bet he was the dick.
Naniwa essentially quit and let them talk him into showing up for work anyway. He made himself and anyone associated with him look bad. He burned a lot of bridges with that 'performance' and he made himself a liability to essentially the entire esports community.
Whether it was any worse than what some other active players have done is debatable but when it's so public and notorious it's going to be hard for people to forget.
The irony is it could follow him into other fields as they could be esports fans and heard about his attitude/performance.
Quitting a job isn't a big deal just about everyone does it at some point it's about how you do it. There is no question he didn't do it right.
Maybe he was trying to get fired so he could collect unemployment?
One big thing I see missing from this entire thread is the reason why Naniwa was "forced" to go to IEM. You don't need to be an industry insider to understand it, you just need to pay attention.
Alliance paid Naniwa a regular salary. They have been paying that salary so that he doesn't have to work another job and can concentrate on SC2. The payoff for Alliance is Naniwa giving them positive exposure on a big stage. That big stage was IEM.
If you've been paying a guy for months so that he will represent you well at IEM, you expect him to be there. When he says, "I haven't been practicing and don't want to go to IEM", what do you do? Do you just fire him and flush the thousands of dollars down the drain that you've been paying him to practice for the last few months?
Or do you tell him, "You need to go there and try your best and if you don't, you'll be breaching your contract"? Breaching a contract might even include a financial penalty beyond just getting fired. So Alliance expected him to go, play 3 games and give them exposure for having the only white guy in the tournament. Alliance gets their exposure that they've already paid for while Naniwa gets a free trip, a long-shot opportunity at $100k, and another chance to show himself as the best foreigner just by playing out 3 games. Everyone wins and it makes sense to the Alliance management to twist his arm into going.
It was the logical thing for the Alliance management to do because it was the scenario where everyone wins. After the tournament, they would probably officially break off the contract in a more mutually beneficial way and everyone goes home happy with Naniwa probably even getting some severance pay (like EG did with Idra).
Instead, Naniwa went full Naniwa and everyone loses. The Alliance brand is hurt and I'm not so sure that Naniwa will get anything anymore.
So where does that leave Naniwa? He made a decent bit of money through salary and earnings, but I don't see him as the type to save it all up. He's the guy that rented out an entire theater to watch Huk lose, right? That doesn't exactly sound like a guy who spends money wisely. So now he's out of a job, probably not getting any severance, probably doesn't have much savings, doesn't have much of an education, and doesn't have good people skills. He's screwed.
If you've ever read a book called "Outliers", he reminds me of this one guy that's a true genius (by IQ), but can't seem to succeed because he lacks people skills. Naniwa has a few extremely great qualities which helped him become one of the best ever foreigners in SC2 and could help him be great in a future career, but I'd bet that his people skills will hold him back.
As someone who wants to see SC2 players succeed in the game and then transition into the rest of their life successfully, the Naniwa case is shaping up to be a cautionary tale. I hope other ESports pros will learn from this case and make better decisions.
@RenSC2, do you give this same speech for every player that's temporarily teamless?
Naniwa can still probably leverage his e-sports fame into money if he wants to. You don't know if he burned through all his life savings, Naniwa supposedly has had to live on his own for quite a while and I don't know why you shouldn't expect at least a tiny amount of frugalness. And what's to say that Naniwa will not learn from his actions and adjust his behavior when he would have to work with other people in a different environment? And if you don't have an education you can actually go to college, you know that right? You're not stuck at your current education level forever. Naniwa lives in Sweden and I assume they have student loans and so on, and he's smart and has shown an ability to be dedicated and achieve results, assuming he wants to go to college.
You're talking about an actual person, you can't just argue that his life will be terrible and he's doomed forever based on a number of assertions that you have no proof for and that are malicious speculation. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people in this thread. Go become successful at something in your own life before trying to burn Naniwa to the ground.
On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote: I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance.
And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem.
On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote: Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people....
If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think.
Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else?
I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us.
You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual.
If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first.
None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant.
If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
It's funny you talk about my post count as if it means anything. I barely post on this forum as of late.
Contrary to what you believe, many of us are basing our opinions on much more than just personal experience. We are taking into account tons of parallels. Yes, in most of our experience there is virtually 0 tolerance for this kind of behavior in the everyday workforce. I'm sorry if this insults you but E-Sports is still in it's infancy... It has a very long way to go in many aspects. Teams such as EG/Alliance are doing a great job at pushing for this professional environment by enforcing contracts, rules ,and regulations.
If a Football or Basketball player for example, decided to just quit playing halfway through a game or a season there would be fines at the very least and quite possibly more severe consequences. Players who repeatedly display this kind of attitude or lack of professionalism would be punished more and most likely without a job. Sure, if you're a Lebron, Jordan, Ronaldo, a superstar among superstars then maybe you will get some leeway. But even those guys all show more dedication and sense than Naniwa. Whos the last Kespa player that stormed off the stage to make angry tweets? If there was one we probably dont hear about him anymore because hes not playing for a team.
Now to get a bit real, sorry if this sounds scathing. Did Naniwa finish highshcool? I recall reading that he dropped school to go pro at WC3 and eventually SC2. It's a well known phenomenon in sports such as soccer/football, basketball and american football for uneducated players to blow all their money (usually small fortunes in traditional sports) within years of leaving their league. These players arent necessarily stupid but theyve spent every day learning a highly specific sport, not how to manage money or navigate the real world.
Yes, there is a "real world" that exists and when you practice a game for 8-10 hours a day or years you might not fully understand things like dealing with taxes, or putting a mortgage down, investing your money, etc. So yes.. no high school degree, no relevant job skills.. our personal opinion doesn't weigh in too much when we say that doesn't qualify you for much. And again, based on logic, a job you land with those qualifications is going to be entry level where you are easily replaced. There is not going to be any tolerance for hissy fits and breaking the rules.
didnt you know. post count equals right to even post in this forum. the biggest post count the bigger penis aswell
On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote: I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance.
And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem.
On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote: Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-(
Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people....
If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think.
Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else?
I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us.
You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual.
If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first.
None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant.
If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
It's funny you talk about my post count as if it means anything. I barely post on this forum as of late.
Contrary to what you believe, many of us are basing our opinions on much more than just personal experience. We are taking into account tons of parallels. Yes, in most of our experience there is virtually 0 tolerance for this kind of behavior in the everyday workforce. I'm sorry if this insults you but E-Sports is still in it's infancy... It has a very long way to go in many aspects. Teams such as EG/Alliance are doing a great job at pushing for this professional environment by enforcing contracts, rules ,and regulations.
If a Football or Basketball player for example, decided to just quit playing halfway through a game or a season there would be fines at the very least and quite possibly more severe consequences. Players who repeatedly display this kind of attitude or lack of professionalism would be punished more and most likely without a job. Sure, if you're a Lebron, Jordan, Ronaldo, a superstar among superstars then maybe you will get some leeway. But even those guys all show more dedication and sense than Naniwa. Whos the last Kespa player that stormed off the stage to make angry tweets? If there was one we probably dont hear about him anymore because hes not playing for a team.
Now to get a bit real, sorry if this sounds scathing. Did Naniwa finish highshcool? I recall reading that he dropped school to go pro at WC3 and eventually SC2. It's a well known phenomenon in sports such as soccer/football, basketball and american football for uneducated players to blow all their money (usually small fortunes in traditional sports) within years of leaving their league. These players arent necessarily stupid but theyve spent every day learning a highly specific sport, not how to manage money or navigate the real world.
Yes, there is a "real world" that exists and when you practice a game for 8-10 hours a day or years you might not fully understand things like dealing with taxes, or putting a mortgage down, investing your money, etc. So yes.. no high school degree, no relevant job skills.. our personal opinion doesn't weigh in too much when we say that doesn't qualify you for much. And again, based on logic, a job you land with those qualifications is going to be entry level where you are easily replaced. There is not going to be any tolerance for hissy fits and breaking the rules.
didnt you know. post count equals right to even post in this forum. the biggest post count the bigger penis aswell
Shellshock largest penis on TL confirmed
But in all seriousness I don't think there's really that much post count elitism on TL at least not as much as you are saying
College in Sweden is free. In fact you get paid roundabout 2800 SEK per month if you manage your school results well enough, and you can take a very beneficial student loan to cover the rest of your living expenses. You can even have a small income from work and still get the aid and the loan. So yes, that road is definately open to any Swedish citizen.
On March 24 2014 22:53 Gothic wrote: College in Sweden is free. In fact you get paid roundabout 2800 SEK per month if you manage your school results well enough, and you can take a very beneficial student loan to cover the rest of your living expenses. You can even have a small income from work and still get the aid and the loan. So yes, that road is definately open to any Swedish citizen.
Do they teach manners at Swedish colleges? Ba-zing.
On March 24 2014 22:53 Gothic wrote: College in Sweden is free. In fact you get paid roundabout 2800 SEK per month if you manage your school results well enough, and you can take a very beneficial student loan to cover the rest of your living expenses. You can even have a small income from work and still get the aid and the loan. So yes, that road is definately open to any Swedish citizen.
Do they teach manners at Swedish colleges? Ba-zing.
On March 24 2014 22:53 Gothic wrote: College in Sweden is free. In fact you get paid roundabout 2800 SEK per month if you manage your school results well enough, and you can take a very beneficial student loan to cover the rest of your living expenses. You can even have a small income from work and still get the aid and the loan. So yes, that road is definately open to any Swedish citizen.
Do they teach manners at Swedish colleges? Ba-zing.
are you rabid fanboys kidding me? OF COURSE NANIWA COULDNT HOLD A JOB AT MCDONALDS. seriously doubt any of you are employed if you can't even see this. customer services requires you to put on a fake smile and be nice to customers, something naniwa has shown he is incapable of. his crap attitude would get him fired in less than a day. apparently none of you know how the real world functions. naniwhine really screwed himself over. he's got no people skills, burned a lot of bridges with sponsors and teams so doesn't have connections, and basically developed no marketable skills the past few years except sc2. now that he's out, he's got nothing. plus with his bad attitude he won't be able to even hold a minimum wage job until he grows up. TLDR: PWNED
On March 25 2014 04:14 fishjie wrote: are you rabid fanboys kidding me? OF COURSE NANIWA COULDNT HOLD A JOB AT MCDONALDS. seriously doubt any of you are employed if you can't even see this. customer services requires you to put on a fake smile and be nice to customers, something naniwa has shown he is incapable of. his crap attitude would get him fired in less than a day. apparently none of you know how the real world functions. naniwhine really screwed himself over. he's got no people skills, burned a lot of bridges with sponsors and teams so doesn't have connections, and basically developed no marketable skills the past few years except sc2. now that he's out, he's got nothing. plus with his bad attitude he won't be able to even hold a minimum wage job until he grows up. TLDR: PWNED
User was warned for this post
The wording of the post may be worthy of a warning (though personally I think this much freedom of expression should be allowed here), but in terms of content, this guy nailed it
On March 24 2014 20:19 haduken wrote: lol i honestly don't know what you guys expects...
Naniwa will always be Naniwa, that's why we love and hate him.
Speak for yourself about the whole "loving" part. Even though I understand why some people "love" him, I also feel a sense of disgust towards those people, partly because their minds allow them to like NaNiWa, which in itself is a bad thing, and because them liking NaNiWa fueled his SC2 career, which is a bad thing in my eyes because there's no place for people like NaNiWa in my heart.
On March 25 2014 04:14 fishjie wrote: are you rabid fanboys kidding me? OF COURSE NANIWA COULDNT HOLD A JOB AT MCDONALDS. seriously doubt any of you are employed if you can't even see this. customer services requires you to put on a fake smile and be nice to customers, something naniwa has shown he is incapable of. his crap attitude would get him fired in less than a day. apparently none of you know how the real world functions. naniwhine really screwed himself over. he's got no people skills, burned a lot of bridges with sponsors and teams so doesn't have connections, and basically developed no marketable skills the past few years except sc2. now that he's out, he's got nothing. plus with his bad attitude he won't be able to even hold a minimum wage job until he grows up. TLDR: PWNED
User was warned for this post
The wording of the post may be worthy of a warning (though personally I think this much freedom of expression should be allowed here), but in terms of content, this guy nailed it
I feel the same about the content. However, there isn't a real need to respond to the rabid fanboys. They will have to learn how the REAL WORLD expects them to behave, or live one lonely existence.
On March 25 2014 19:39 Insidi0us wrote: Hope i'll will never have to see you again on a pro stream. Being bored by SC2 is a thing, respect other players is another.
I highly doubt Naniwa will read this thread, so you making an entire account simply to post this was rather silly. You contributed like... nothing...
And I don't know what McDonalds you guys go to, but only about 30% of the ones I have ever been to had employees that actually seemed happy. McDonalds is not a fine dining restaurant. It's fast-food. You don't need to have quality (happy) employees there because the people that go to McDonalds will probably keep going to McDonalds regardless of how happy the employees working there are. There isn't even that much interaction between the customer and the worker either. Obviously being jolly and shit helps and will definitely keep you on the better side with your employer, but I doubt you'd ever get fired if you know how to be at all functional.
... Now, it might be difficult for Naniwa to hold a job at 5-star restaurant or some place fancy. Maybe he could wash dishes with his 1337 control, but I don't think waiting tables would work out well.
@Shinta) Damn dude, that's a bit much. You actually feel disgust towards the people that like Naniwa, and for that reason alone.....? Some people like Naniwa because he's a passionate player with a lot of skill, and he isn't even a Korean! I think liking someone for that outweighs any possible negatives that "supporting Naniwa's career" might have had...
On March 25 2014 04:14 fishjie wrote: are you rabid fanboys kidding me? OF COURSE NANIWA COULDNT HOLD A JOB AT MCDONALDS. seriously doubt any of you are employed if you can't even see this. customer services requires you to put on a fake smile and be nice to customers, something naniwa has shown he is incapable of. his crap attitude would get him fired in less than a day. apparently none of you know how the real world functions. naniwhine really screwed himself over. he's got no people skills, burned a lot of bridges with sponsors and teams so doesn't have connections, and basically developed no marketable skills the past few years except sc2. now that he's out, he's got nothing. plus with his bad attitude he won't be able to even hold a minimum wage job until he grows up. TLDR: PWNED
User was warned for this post
The wording of the post may be worthy of a warning (though personally I think this much freedom of expression should be allowed here), but in terms of content, this guy nailed it
yup, and the real world will be a much harsher and ruder awakening for childish progamers with bad attitudes than my posts will ever be.
On March 26 2014 05:42 Blargh wrote:
And I don't know what McDonalds you guys go to, but only about 30% of the ones I have ever been to had employees that actually seemed happy. McDonalds is not a fine dining restaurant. It's fast-food. You don't need to have quality (happy) employees there because the people that go to McDonalds will probably keep going to McDonalds regardless of how happy the employees working there are. There isn't even that much interaction between the customer and the worker either. Obviously being jolly and shit helps and will definitely keep you on the better side with your employer, but I doubt you'd ever get fired if you know how to be at all functional.
Has nothing to do with being happy. The worst thing about service jobs is that the customer is always right. Even if the customer is a complete douchebag, you've got to keep your cool and placate them. If you yell back or give attitude, guess who the manager is going to side with? The dude wouldn't last a day in that kind of environment where customers are yelling at him, he'd flip out within minutes and get fired.
But you cannot possibly say that Naniwa would react the same in a situation where he's actually working for money, with the only intent being to get money. Naniwa is a competitive person. McDonald's is not really a competitive environment. I do think that Naniwa could do situations a bit better than he does, but I doubt that he is totally incapable of ass-kissing, if he actually needed to (for money).
I'm not denying that he wouldn't be a great employee at McDonalds, but I think he's smart enough and talented enough to know how to get by in life, even if he is a terrible loser (in games).
But you cannot possibly say that Naniwa would react the same in a situation where he's actually working for money, with the only intent being to get money. Naniwa is a competitive person. McDonald's is not really a competitive environment. I do think that Naniwa could do situations a bit better than he does, but I doubt that he is totally incapable of ass-kissing, if he actually needed to (for money).
I'm not denying that he wouldn't be a great employee at McDonalds, but I think he's smart enough and talented enough to know how to get by in life, even if he is a terrible loser (in games).
doing something out of love is easier than doing it for money... so how could you possiblly think that he will not do something stupid... he is undeniably a great player but a complete moron in real life...
at the mcdonalds issue, he wont even last that long... is not the issue of competitive environmentment but the his attitude... for customer service, there is no place for moody and war freak probes... i strongly agree on the post above that got the TL warning...
hopefully he'll grow up soon... whether we like him or not, we can't honestly hope bad things for a person....
EPT
but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. 
Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line.
