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Starbow - Page 279

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Season
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States301 Posts
April 01 2014 03:58 GMT
#5561
On April 01 2014 12:08 HeyImFinn wrote:
I'd like to know what was the thought process behind the scan change.


^
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 01 2014 05:38 GMT
#5562
Scan change

Scan comes much earlier into the game in Starbow compared to BroodWar. This makes early lurker / dt play much worse in Starbow compared to BroodWar. I know we should not copy BroodWar 100% but we really saw no reason to have scan so early for terran. This is not something we just thought of ourselves as there were several players who mentioned this fact.

Disruption Web

We still think it will be sort of 'niche', but a tad more useful. We shall see though. We are ready look at it again it if it becomes to strong.

Please test out all changes and bring us feedback. Let's make tonight a great ladder night!
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
April 01 2014 06:21 GMT
#5563
On April 01 2014 14:38 Xiphias wrote:
Scan change

Scan comes much earlier into the game in Starbow compared to BroodWar. This makes early lurker / dt play much worse in Starbow compared to BroodWar. I know we should not copy BroodWar 100% but we really saw no reason to have scan so early for terran. This is not something we just thought of ourselves as there were several players who mentioned this fact.


I get what you're trying to say. But I'd have to disagree about it affecting Lurker play since bio Terrans in Brood War got their academies really early (obviously). Also, mines attacked DT's in Brood War.

Realistically, all this change does is hurt TvT. Banshee rushes are brutal, unless you sprint for a blind Ebay. Likewise, with the amount of openings that are possible in TvT, a simple wall-off will deny any semblance of scouting that the opponent could possibly do. Again, unless they go for a blind Ebay.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 01 2014 07:31 GMT
#5564
That might be a potential problem. Test it and let us know. Changes can be reverted if needed.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
April 01 2014 07:59 GMT
#5565
I am disappointed in last patch. I tried really hard but I could not find any changes to the bunker...
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 01 2014 08:45 GMT
#5566
On April 01 2014 16:59 -Archangel- wrote:
I am disappointed in last patch. I tried really hard but I could not find any changes to the bunker...


Forgot to add:

- Bunker build time: No changes.
- Colossus: Not added to the game.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 01 2014 10:48 GMT
#5567
Ah, forgot to add:

We are also currently looking at giving the reaper bombs HP and a shorter detonation time.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 11:12:04
April 01 2014 11:09 GMT
#5568
On April 01 2014 16:31 Xiphias wrote:
That might be a potential problem. Test it and let us know. Changes can be reverted if needed.

I have tested it, against all three races. TvZ was unaffected, because a fast Ebay is an inevitability.

I can't say much about TvP, since the only TvP I played, they went for fast arbiters off of three bases, which I scouted immediately, so I got the Ebay that I would have gotten anyway. I haven't been DT rushed yet, so I don't really know what would happen.

TvT, on the other hand, was a nightmare. If the opponent just walls off, there's almost no way to get any information early on unless you go for a blind Ebay, which can leave you weak against some early timings.

Overall, the change does nothing in TvZ, very little in TvP, and ruins early game TvT.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
April 01 2014 11:17 GMT
#5569
On April 01 2014 20:09 HeyImFinn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 16:31 Xiphias wrote:
That might be a potential problem. Test it and let us know. Changes can be reverted if needed.

I have tested it, against all three races. TvZ was unaffected, because a fast Ebay is an inevitability.

I can't say much about TvP, since the only TvP I played, they went for fast arbiters off of three bases, which I scouted immediately, so I got the Ebay that I would have gotten anyway. I haven't been DT rushed yet, so I don't really know what would happen.

TvT, on the other hand, was a nightmare. If the opponent just walls off, there's almost no way to get any information early on unless you go for a blind Ebay, which can leave you weak against some early timings.

Overall, the change does nothing in TvZ, very little in TvP, and ruins early game TvT.

How about racks scouting? Build it somewhere close to their base and send it flying in.
Capresis
Profile Joined September 2008
United States518 Posts
April 01 2014 12:40 GMT
#5570
Or a single reaper. Us T's have it pretty easy even with this change I think. We'll just have to get used to it.
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
April 01 2014 12:42 GMT
#5571
--- Nuked ---
SolidSMD
Profile Joined April 2011
Belgium408 Posts
April 01 2014 19:50 GMT
#5572
On April 01 2014 20:09 HeyImFinn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 16:31 Xiphias wrote:
That might be a potential problem. Test it and let us know. Changes can be reverted if needed.

I have tested it, against all three races. TvZ was unaffected, because a fast Ebay is an inevitability.

I can't say much about TvP, since the only TvP I played, they went for fast arbiters off of three bases, which I scouted immediately, so I got the Ebay that I would have gotten anyway. I haven't been DT rushed yet, so I don't really know what would happen.

TvT, on the other hand, was a nightmare. If the opponent just walls off, there's almost no way to get any information early on unless you go for a blind Ebay, which can leave you weak against some early timings.

Overall, the change does nothing in TvZ, very little in TvP, and ruins early game TvT.

Banshee cloak only lasts 6 seconds, even when you're caught off guard it will not be game-ending.
And like others said, reaperscout/raxscout or making a viking puts banshee harass on a clock, time enough to get up your ebay meanwhile.
Working on Starbow!
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
April 01 2014 20:54 GMT
#5573
Unit test map "Starbow Tester 2.0" Updated!
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
April 01 2014 22:36 GMT
#5574
On April 01 2014 21:40 Capricis wrote:
Or a single reaper. Us T's have it pretty easy even with this change I think. We'll just have to get used to it.

I guess, but it just seems like a pointless change.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
itsMAHVELbaybee
Profile Joined October 2008
292 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 22:56:08
April 01 2014 22:54 GMT
#5575
Scout with Barracks, or Factory if your going bio. You have almost no excuse not to. If you're losing to one base banshee play, you'd probably die to any one base all-in. This includes marine/tank/viking all-ins and the like.

So what, there's a wall? What units is he building? Do those units use gas? Is it scouting SCV delayed? Is he not concerned with moving down to take his natural? Does the rax have an add-on?

You could be up against a multitude of things: like goliath drop, 2port banshee, vulture drop, 2factory rush with quick mines and vulture speed; or bio based play with aggressive stim. Does your build even account for any of this or are you only concerned with banshees?

If he's not taking his natural, you can easily lay mines and do a simple contain with a few tanks. If you go 1fact FE or 1rax FE and his drop or banshee play fails or barely does any damage, he's in a lot of trouble.

I fail to see how this is a huge problem in TvT.
I am boss. -Minami-ke
WarpTV
Profile Joined August 2011
205 Posts
April 02 2014 09:01 GMT
#5576
I would still like to see reactor + overcharge be addressed.

Early Bio timing are very strong in all match ups.
Also mechanically there is a larger pay off for the apm spent overcharging a reactor'ed building vs the pay off from a single crono / inject.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 02 2014 09:17 GMT
#5577
On April 01 2014 05:28 Xiphias wrote:

Things we are looking into:
  • New version of abduct. Was almost ready for this patch.
  • Terran bio, especially marauders, firebats and ghosts. We will try to make a suggested ghost which may replace the marauder and add a test-map of it to get some player feedback.
  • Firebats / Marauder too good vs lurkers. See above.
  • Terran macro mechanics (overcharge + reactor combo) being potentially too strong.

aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
KUNGJAH
Profile Joined January 2014
Sweden53 Posts
April 02 2014 11:11 GMT
#5578
so did the hype for sb die out?
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
April 02 2014 11:26 GMT
#5579
Hype was around a well paid tournament that had well known players. I am sure if sponsors show up that want more of such tournament, SB will be popular again. The game is still more fun to play and watch then HotS, it just lack GM level players playing it a lot.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 02 2014 11:53 GMT
#5580
Sign up for third ladder cup is up:

http://goo.gl/cN8RyZ

Changes: No seeds for this tournament. Hopefully all rounds will be Bo3, unless a horde of people sign up.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
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