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On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote:
Monthly cringes :
Maru above innovation
JD above soulkey
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers.
The Formula for Results
Results = Skill x Opportunity
If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well.
But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world.
Disclaimer: This is an approximation, not an exact formula. Furthermore, for the sake of simplicity the random variances in playing skill are omitted for this formula.
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On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote:
Monthly cringes :
Maru above innovation
JD above soulkey
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world.
So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill?
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On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote:
Monthly cringes :
Maru above innovation
JD above soulkey
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill?
Results =! Prize money
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United States23455 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote:
Monthly cringes :
Maru above innovation
JD above soulkey
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill?
Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark.
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On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote:
Monthly cringes :
Maru above innovation
JD above soulkey
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill?
It says that skill is important, but meaningless if you're stuck in a Korean teamhouse and never travelling to tournaments
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On December 05 2013 05:08 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote:
Monthly cringes :
Maru above innovation
JD above soulkey
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill? Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark.
Prize money? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Quality of tournaments? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Number of tournaments? Ah there we go.
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On December 05 2013 05:08 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote:
Monthly cringes :
Maru above innovation
JD above soulkey
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote:
Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill? Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark.
Prize money is however a semi-decent indicator for how much we should value a tournament win, together with a few other factors (open/closed amount of spots for example, strength of competition).
Had Taeja won a hypothetical DH and HSC during GSL Open season 1, we would have still called Fruitdealer the best in the world at the time.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:10 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 05:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:
[quote]
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel.
[quote]
That is a weird prediction.
[quote]
First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill? Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark. Prize money? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Quality of tournaments? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Number of tournaments? Ah there we go.
I give.
PM Waxangel and inform him of your indignation. I'm sure he'll be swayed by your concerns and you will be the first guy he talks to for the next power rank.
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United States97274 Posts
Don't give up this was getting good
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United States23455 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:14 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 05:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote:
[quote]
Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel.
[quote]
That is a weird prediction.
[quote]
First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill? Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark. Prize money is however a semi-decent indicator for how much we should value a tournament win, together with a few other factors (open/closed amount of spots for example, strength of competition). Had Taeja won a hypothetical DH and HSC during GSL Open season 1, we would have still called Fruitdealer the best in the world at the time.
So is Blizzcon the GSL? Because that would mean you think sOs should be #1?
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On December 05 2013 05:14 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 05:10 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 05:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill? Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark. Prize money? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Quality of tournaments? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Number of tournaments? Ah there we go. I give. PM Waxangel and inform him of your indignation. I'm sure he'll be swayed by your concerns and you will be the first guy he talks to for the next power rank.
I don't think someone who looks back more than a few weeks at results would be appreciated.
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On December 05 2013 05:19 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 05:14 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 05:10 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 05:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:
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If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill? Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark. Prize money? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Quality of tournaments? Not a good benchmark because then Dear would be above Taeja. Number of tournaments? Ah there we go. I give. PM Waxangel and inform him of your indignation. I'm sure he'll be swayed by your concerns and you will be the first guy he talks to for the next power rank. I don't think someone who looks back more than a few weeks at results would be appreciated.
OOoooooo!!! I see what you did there...
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On December 05 2013 05:18 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 05:14 Derez wrote:On December 05 2013 05:08 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 05:03 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:59 Bagration wrote:On December 05 2013 04:53 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:50 Grovbolle wrote:On December 05 2013 04:45 Cheren wrote:On December 05 2013 04:43 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 05 2013 04:41 Cheren wrote:
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Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. If you bothered to read the preceding sentence, you would realize I had just said that part of being ranked on the power rank is exposure and recent games, which Taeja has and Dear does not. I never mentioned that had anything to do with skill. But please, continue to throw a hissy fit and explain to me the difference between a Kespa team and a foreign team. Exposure? Destiny streamed for 600k viewer hours in November, where is he on the power rank? Exposure in tournaments. Even if I did think Dear is better, TaeJa has a lot more opportunities to show it. You are grasping for straws/arguing semantics, which doesn't help your argument. Basically Dear's skills got him to number 2, but TL's money got Taeja to #1. And I don't mean paying the PR writers. The Formula for ResultsResults = Skill x Opportunity If Skill = 0, then naturally results will be 0 as well. But at the same time, if Opportunity = 0 (IE the player never gets to compete in tournaments), then results will also be 0, even if the player is the most skilled in the world. So if one player had better results (more prize money) than another player since the last power rank despite less opportunity, what does that say about skill? Prize money is the only possible benchmark for how good you are. That's why Fruitdealer has had a more successful Starcraft 2 career than Innovation, Maru, Jjakji, Symbol, this could go on, you get the point, prize money isn't a good benchmark. Prize money is however a semi-decent indicator for how much we should value a tournament win, together with a few other factors (open/closed amount of spots for example, strength of competition). Had Taeja won a hypothetical DH and HSC during GSL Open season 1, we would have still called Fruitdealer the best in the world at the time. So is Blizzcon the GSL? Because that would mean you think sOs should be #1?
No it means that I think that not all tournaments wins are equal and that 1 HSC win plus a DH Winter win should maybe not count for more than a blizzcon win or a WCS KR win. The 'hardest' tournaments are the ones the most top players are participating in, so the hardest tournament is WCS KR, and by extension blizzcon and the WCS finals events.
I think Dear is the undisputed no 1 over the last couple of months. Won the hardest competition in the world, won a big weekend tournament, did okish at global finals where he beat Taeja in a match both had plenty of time to prepare for. He has shown to be comfortable with both prepared play and weekend tourneys, Taeja has only shown his skill in playing weekend tournaments. Dear is the more complete player over the last three months.
That said its all subjective anyway and everyone is allowed their own opinion. If there was an objective metric for who the best player is at any given time in any sport it would be terribly boring.
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Israel2209 Posts
On December 04 2013 06:35 Yhamm wrote:
Also, would you write "SOs" if his name start a new sentence? So please, don't write HerO instead of herO, shouldn't a name always be written the same?
Boo TL writers team for this grave mistake.
Would never have been approved on Liquipedia.
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Dear record since Blizzcon: 6–1 (85.71%) in games and 4–0 (100%) in matches. It's even better :D
If we take a look a their records since 2013-09-01 (since this powerrank take into account the last 3 month):
 Taeja: 61–32 (65.59%) in games and 32–11 (74.42%) in matches.
 Dear: 46–22 (67.65%) in games and 20–8 (71.43%) in matches.
Conclusion: Both are incredible in this regard...
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I cant help but notice how Kespa players have caught up and destroyed ESL competition
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 05 2013 09:04 Darkren wrote:
I cant help but notice how Kespa players have caught up and destroyed ESL competition
man, those european leagues.
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On December 05 2013 09:10 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 09:04 Darkren wrote:
I cant help but notice how Kespa players have caught up and destroyed ESL competition man, those european leagues.
Steal all our monies
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I really hope Taeja wins a WCS tournament next year. I don't love the guy but god damn he's gettin a lot of shit
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EPT
