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On December 04 2013 22:14 opisska wrote:
When I was scrolling down, not seeing him anywhere, I was becoming more and more concerned that you really did it... While I like Taeja a lot, there is no way you can invent any metrics that makes him #1 in anything at the moment. The whole achievement of Taeja winning "five major tournaments" is purely enabled by the very relaxed definition of a "major tournament".
But that's not the only thing wrong with this "power rank" and they all boil down to the same problem: the people that are putting this together don't like the WCS system. Not including the two time WCS NA champion (in favor of a cool guy who won one random IEM tourney, a popular old-school player who hasn't won anything of substance at all and the best player of the first half of the year who is nevertheless mainly irrelevant since then) is just purposefully showing your attitude towards the WCS. If Taeja is so #1, how come he can't ever get results in such an easy and irrelevant tournament as the WCS NA?
If you consider WCS NA irrelevant, you should really take the same stance towards all the "major" tournaments, including HSC, IEMs and Dreamhacks. You can't at the same time complain about having too many Koreans in WCS NA and then justify basing the ranking on these "major" tournaments because there were Koreans to beat, it just doesn't make sense. If you really want to consider the "quality of competition", you just have to put more (or basically all) weight on the GSL, Season finals and Blizzcon. But then you would have to include soO, Bomber and most importantly, Trap (how does Trap not get even a honorary mention is miles beyond my comprehension).
Very good post. I, too, feel that this power rank wasn't up to par with the previous ones. Taeja has been wrecking face, but he isn't being held up to the same strict criteria as a few others in here.
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How about we just give both Taeja and Dear the top spot.
+ Show Spoiler +but then like in tiebreakers we look at their head-to-head scores so Dear wins  he's the better player ez decision!
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!!
i'm sure BW ranks had as much controversy as sc2 ones. the scene was easier to rank then too, there were only 2-3 tournaments that mattered and almost everyone played in all of them.
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On December 05 2013 11:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +Overall, I feel like Life is undeserving of his spot, as other than terrorizing foreign tournaments, he is still stuck in code A. I would put everyone in the top ten before him, as this is based on results and not potential (hes been very quiet since hots in general).
It's not just results according to their criteria. They factor in quality of play and difficulty of opponents. Which is what Life mainly has going for him atm. Although, even on the results side of things he did win his ro24 code A match (which would mean he IS code S under normal circumstances) and won an IEM not too long ago, so there's that. With all that alone I'd put him over at least CJ herO. I noticed you said you don't watch much recently and only look at results. So as a reminder, do you remember what the old Life looked like? You know the guy who seemingly can do whatever the fuck he wants and dominate. The guy who just seems to always find a way to get lings into your base, while meanwhile he's painting the map in creep and whoring drones at home behind the distraction? Yeah he looks like that again.
Thats awesome. I'd love to see life back in form. However, he still hasn't put up notable results, there are people more deserving of that spot. Most of the top 10 can look amazing vs tier 2 players, that doesn't mean they deserve to be there for crushing them.
On December 05 2013 15:24 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 15:17 Kheve wrote:
Taeja only won 1 major tournament the whole year (20k and above purse) and power rank comes out right after that >_>. Dear won 2 majors and sos won the majorest of majors and only got 2nd and 3rd.
Bias overwhelming. Taeja has been consistently amazing all year long with the infamous summer of Taeja lasting longer than ever. He has looked unstoppable in all three matchups as of late, recently beating a plethora of players ranked beneath him in the top ten. One could argue that some early GGs resulting from a lack of confidence are the only reason he even lost to Dear at Blizzcon. As such I believe Dear to be the only other player in the top 10 with a valid claim for a better spot...No liquid player has been ranked number one all year and rightfully so, but it's not their fault if one of their own is currently on a tear
The infamous summer is mostly hype. Last year he did much better in code S than this year (it was more real last year), but this year he's more of a weekend warrior, taking DH's and HSC but nothing thats an on going individual league. And he doesn't look unstoppable, he has failed to beat jaedong, bomber, dear, and also lost to heart in wcs.... That's not what i define as unstoppable.
Maru to me is more impressive after thinking about it, he has been doing amazing in code S and doing it consistently (being stopped by dear twice in back to back semi's is still and impressive feat). He's been beating higher quality opponents in a preparation setting. That to me is worth more than weekend tournies.
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On December 05 2013 20:32 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!! i'm sure BW ranks had as much controversy as sc2 ones. the scene was easier to rank then too, there were only 2-3 tournaments that mattered and almost everyone played in all of them.
I agree, its just hard to ignore than in a BW rank you'd never see someone who dropped twice (R16, R4) out of an individual league as number 1. Its just odd they didn't even mention that he lost in that league. Its like it was a non-factor. Thats why people are mentioning bias. If you look at what they have won in Taeja vs Dear, you might argue its comparable. But if you compare what they lost, Dear is a clear winner to me (semi's of blizzcon vs quarter blizzcon, R4 wcs s2, and R16 wcs 3,)
Edit: sorry for double post
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On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!!
what is this post
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Poland3748 Posts
I guess people are not really getting what power rank is all about. First nobody cares that much about i.e. being double WCS AM champion because that's way in the past and after that Polt really wasn't able to confirm his high level skill. He is not power.
But at this point I'd like to quote
Power Rank as of 07/06/2008
when suddenly Sea was ranked #1 in PR:
Sometimes, the definition of "Power" changes so drastically that weird things happen.
Weird indeed, that Sea[Shield] is at the top of the Power Rank without a title to his name. Friends, Power can means a lot of things. A Powerful build order can win you a StarLeague. A Powerful mind can keep your career long and properous. A Powerful heart can endear you to the masses, and create a wave of fanatics frothing at the mouth just for a chance to cheer you on.
Yum BoSung has the most Powerful heart of any progamer on the scene. For the last several days, Sea has graciously spent time between practice with his adoring english-speaking fans, playing all manner of games. That includes a brutal 2-0 of your hero, sMi.FakeSteve, that consisted of utterly flawless (and I do mean flawless) control over the growth and prowess of his armed forces. Sea's TvT is perfection wielded as a weapon of unimaginable power, something I have never been on the receiving end of before.
Sea's TvZ is a sinister love affair between Casy's aggressiveness and iloveoov's macromanagement. You think you've seen TvZ? Watch Sea vs Hyuk on Othello, a game that transcends build order and mechanics and settles promptly down to raw, unrelenting will to win.
You think you're familiar with TvP timings? Sea frequently screams out of his base with a massive amalgamation of units and delivers his Protoss foe into the eager hands of the Devil himself. Sea is the reckoning and judgment itself for the hapless children who choose the race that carrier rushes.
Yum BoSung has captivated the entirety of TeamLiquid.net with but a few days of generous (by his schedule) interaction. A fresh crop of fans have seen the light, have snapped out of a dreamy sleep of ignorance during which they cheer for... *scoff*... other players. Sea is the single greatest StarCraft player to ever walk the earth, for reasons that go above and beyond the game itself, and certainly beyond the call of duty for a ProGamer.
Sea[Shield] is #1 on the Power Rank this month, and #1 in our hearts, this day and forevermore.
Power Rank always was about more than just win-ratio, list of titles, earned $$ and prominence of list of beaten opponents.
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Canada16217 Posts
On December 05 2013 20:32 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!! i'm sure BW ranks had as much controversy as sc2 ones. the scene was easier to rank then too, there were only 2-3 tournaments that mattered and almost everyone played in all of them.
every power rank will be controversial for any game.
On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!!
Lol.
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I don't understand why people think the writers have a TL bias. The actual writer bias is for Startale. ^^
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On December 05 2013 20:32 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!! i'm sure BW ranks had as much controversy as sc2 ones. the scene was easier to rank then too, there were only 2-3 tournaments that mattered and almost everyone played in all of them.
it was impossible that someone who won WCG and dropped at ro16 ro8 osl/msl would ever be no1... we have more tournaments now, of course, and we had in 3 months wcs3 finals and blizzcon.. but winners are ignored... so, there wasn't so much controversy because it wasn't possible something ridiculous as this PR would ever happen
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United States23455 Posts
On December 06 2013 01:27 purgerinho wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 20:32 opterown wrote:On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!! i'm sure BW ranks had as much controversy as sc2 ones. the scene was easier to rank then too, there were only 2-3 tournaments that mattered and almost everyone played in all of them. it was impossible that someone who won WCG and dropped at ro16 ro8 osl/msl would ever be no1... we have more tournaments now, of course, and we had in 3 months wcs3 finals and blizzcon.. but winners are ignored... so, there wasn't so much controversy because it wasn't possible something ridiculous as this PR would ever happen
I can understand your fury and indignation about this, because of the far reaching consequences the rankings in this list will have.
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United States11390 Posts
On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!!
Random T1 player making it into a PR for showing a few good games was a very real thing in BW Power Ranks. (see ones made by JWD as example)
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On December 06 2013 01:27 purgerinho wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 20:32 opterown wrote:On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!! i'm sure BW ranks had as much controversy as sc2 ones. the scene was easier to rank then too, there were only 2-3 tournaments that mattered and almost everyone played in all of them. it was impossible that someone who won WCG and dropped at ro16 ro8 osl/msl would ever be no1... we have more tournaments now, of course, and we had in 3 months wcs3 finals and blizzcon.. but winners are ignored... so, there wasn't so much controversy because it wasn't possible something ridiculous as this PR would ever happen
I think you are taking this stuff a bit too seriously.as a guy coming form boxing where p4p aka power rankings are actually needed since there are 4 major belts and good fighters may not end up meeting,i can guarantee you than any power ranking is made just for fun and with a high dose of subjectivity.anyone that makes a power ranking in boxing will tell you that they just do it for fun and it is their own personal oppinion.this power ranking is nothing more nothing less than waxangels personal opinion of who the top players in the world are right now.its the mans' oppinion thats all.do not take it as a sort of universally imposed truth.do not take this stuff so seriously.And in general any ranking is subjective since some people consider some criteria more important than others.you probably think korean tournaments are the most import.which is fine it is your oppinion(mine too).waxangel ha shis own oppinion and criteria.and in general in the sc2 scene where usually the best guy who manages to buy plane tickets usually wins while other equally talented but less financially fortunate players remain unknown in a crowded korean teamhouse,having a 100% objective ranking is impossible.
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Russian Federation117 Posts
Sorry, but JD must be at #2
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On December 05 2013 19:57 purgerinho wrote:
so, being in liquid makes big bust, right? there is no way taeja is no1.. why did i waste my time to read this.. last time he was no2 without any reason, now he is no1 without any big tournament win... it would be funny if it is not sad :/
where is professionalism from BW power ranks, where results were more important than the team player is in?
be ashamed, be very ashamed!!!!
What the hell is this post?????
no1 without any big tournament win... LMAO. Didn't he JUST win Dreamhack where he beat umm....Innovation, sOs, ForGG, Sjow, Hero, MMA, and Life twice??
Or Homestory cup where he beat Titan, Symbol, Hero, Symbol again, and then went 4-0 against Hyun... and lost 3 maps in the process.
Or Dreamhack Bucharest where he beat Yugioh, sOs, Life and Innovation without dropping a map.
Some people, man...
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I would have gone with Dear 1 as he did beat Taeja 1on1. However, I can acknowledge its a close call. I think, however Soulkey is pretty overrated. Yes he has consistent results against the sub-top players, but in headsup games against other top10 players he has a very poor record. I believe, Maru should have gotton the top 5 spot instead.
While I like Taeja a lot, there is no way you can invent any metrics that makes him #1 in anything at the moment.
How do you make something like that up? Its actually super easy to "invent" such a metric. Aliuguac for instance has Taeja as the clear number 1 in overall rankings by using objective measures.
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On December 05 2013 20:08 shabby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 22:14 opisska wrote:
When I was scrolling down, not seeing him anywhere, I was becoming more and more concerned that you really did it... While I like Taeja a lot, there is no way you can invent any metrics that makes him #1 in anything at the moment. The whole achievement of Taeja winning "five major tournaments" is purely enabled by the very relaxed definition of a "major tournament".
But that's not the only thing wrong with this "power rank" and they all boil down to the same problem: the people that are putting this together don't like the WCS system. Not including the two time WCS NA champion (in favor of a cool guy who won one random IEM tourney, a popular old-school player who hasn't won anything of substance at all and the best player of the first half of the year who is nevertheless mainly irrelevant since then) is just purposefully showing your attitude towards the WCS. If Taeja is so #1, how come he can't ever get results in such an easy and irrelevant tournament as the WCS NA?
If you consider WCS NA irrelevant, you should really take the same stance towards all the "major" tournaments, including HSC, IEMs and Dreamhacks. You can't at the same time complain about having too many Koreans in WCS NA and then justify basing the ranking on these "major" tournaments because there were Koreans to beat, it just doesn't make sense. If you really want to consider the "quality of competition", you just have to put more (or basically all) weight on the GSL, Season finals and Blizzcon. But then you would have to include soO, Bomber and most importantly, Trap (how does Trap not get even a honorary mention is miles beyond my comprehension). Very good post. I, too, feel that this power rank wasn't up to par with the previous ones. Taeja has been wrecking face, but he isn't being held up to the same strict criteria as a few others in here.
I feel the same way when people talk about majors and it`s lost it`s meaning. That`s why you see me using the term Events and Special Events much more when it comes to my criteria anyway, which I feel is more reflective of what`s going on. In reality all the current formats aren`t up to snuff and should be re-thought at the end of the day including what I`d define as majors. This isn`t your standard face-lift we`re talking about.
On December 06 2013 02:12 FatCat_13 wrote:
Sorry, but JD must be at #2
[insert Kong joke here] All jokes aside, I think he should be happy that at least a few people think he should be a spot ahead of SoulKey when SK did better than him in the last three months. After all, this is a monthly power rank. I find it funny. ;o
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On December 05 2013 20:44 Niteblade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 11:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Overall, I feel like Life is undeserving of his spot, as other than terrorizing foreign tournaments, he is still stuck in code A. I would put everyone in the top ten before him, as this is based on results and not potential (hes been very quiet since hots in general).
It's not just results according to their criteria. They factor in quality of play and difficulty of opponents. Which is what Life mainly has going for him atm. Although, even on the results side of things he did win his ro24 code A match (which would mean he IS code S under normal circumstances) and won an IEM not too long ago, so there's that. With all that alone I'd put him over at least CJ herO. I noticed you said you don't watch much recently and only look at results. So as a reminder, do you remember what the old Life looked like? You know the guy who seemingly can do whatever the fuck he wants and dominate. The guy who just seems to always find a way to get lings into your base, while meanwhile he's painting the map in creep and whoring drones at home behind the distraction? Yeah he looks like that again. Thats awesome. I'd love to see life back in form. However, he still hasn't put up notable results, there are people more deserving of that spot. Most of the top 10 can look amazing vs tier 2 players, that doesn't mean they deserve to be there for crushing them. Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 15:24 Yorkie wrote:On December 05 2013 15:17 Kheve wrote:
Taeja only won 1 major tournament the whole year (20k and above purse) and power rank comes out right after that >_>. Dear won 2 majors and sos won the majorest of majors and only got 2nd and 3rd.
Bias overwhelming. Taeja has been consistently amazing all year long with the infamous summer of Taeja lasting longer than ever. He has looked unstoppable in all three matchups as of late, recently beating a plethora of players ranked beneath him in the top ten. One could argue that some early GGs resulting from a lack of confidence are the only reason he even lost to Dear at Blizzcon. As such I believe Dear to be the only other player in the top 10 with a valid claim for a better spot...No liquid player has been ranked number one all year and rightfully so, but it's not their fault if one of their own is currently on a tear The infamous summer is mostly hype. Last year he did much better in code S than this year (it was more real last year), but this year he's more of a weekend warrior, taking DH's and HSC but nothing thats an on going individual league. And he doesn't look unstoppable, he has failed to beat jaedong, bomber, dear, and also lost to heart in wcs.... That's not what i define as unstoppable. Maru to me is more impressive after thinking about it, he has been doing amazing in code S and doing it consistently (being stopped by dear twice in back to back semi's is still and impressive feat). He's been beating higher quality opponents in a preparation setting. That to me is worth more than weekend tournies.
Ahh the infamous "He didn't win every match he played in the year of 2013, he can't be ranked number one in the December power rank" argument. Are you honestly insinuating that Jaedong and Bomber (I'm a huge fan of both btw) are more deserving of the top spot because they beat him in matches earlier this year? As I said with a recent victory over Taeja at Blizzcon and his WCS results Dear is the only player I would rank above Taeja. The summer of Taeja is not "just hype" He has won multiple DH, ASUS ROG, and MLG tournaments in the summer months and this year his dominance in offline play has extended to cover half the year. As for Maru, he just failed to beat Dear twice and Jaedong...so I'm not sure why that statistic is condemning for Taeja but uplifting for Maru. While his regular season WCS performances were not up to par with his true skill, his current level of play and amazing games against top players at season finals deserves serious recognition.
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Guys, keep in mind we're talking about a monthly power rank here.
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Taeja has a valid claim to be #1 at the moment. I didn't expect people to question the ranking, it's the timing that is more debatable. If this had been done right after Blizzcon, which was a very natural thing to do, the ranking would have been much different (Dear would have been at the top in all likelihood). Instead what we got was a vague article about there being no best player. Not that there aren't valid reasons why the power rank just came out now, but the timing certainly mattered a lot.
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EPT
