EPTSC2 Power Rank - December 2013 - Page 13
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GohgamX
Canada1096 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 04 2013 22:14 opisska wrote: When I was scrolling down, not seeing him anywhere, I was becoming more and more concerned that you really did it... While I like Taeja a lot, there is no way you can invent any metrics that makes him #1 in anything at the moment. The whole achievement of Taeja winning "five major tournaments" is purely enabled by the very relaxed definition of a "major tournament". But that's not the only thing wrong with this "power rank" and they all boil down to the same problem: the people that are putting this together don't like the WCS system. Not including the two time WCS NA champion (in favor of a cool guy who won one random IEM tourney, a popular old-school player who hasn't won anything of substance at all and the best player of the first half of the year who is nevertheless mainly irrelevant since then) is just purposefully showing your attitude towards the WCS. If Taeja is so #1, how come he can't ever get results in such an easy and irrelevant tournament as the WCS NA? If you consider WCS NA irrelevant, you should really take the same stance towards all the "major" tournaments, including HSC, IEMs and Dreamhacks. You can't at the same time complain about having too many Koreans in WCS NA and then justify basing the ranking on these "major" tournaments because there were Koreans to beat, it just doesn't make sense. If you really want to consider the "quality of competition", you just have to put more (or basically all) weight on the GSL, Season finals and Blizzcon. But then you would have to include soO, Bomber and most importantly, Trap (how does Trap not get even a honorary mention is miles beyond my comprehension). Except for the fact that, using actual metrics of aligulac and TLPD, he is actually way ahead? You literally could not be more wrong... | ||
opterown
Australia54785 Posts
taeja has dominated those things somewhat undeservedly before (see tlpd when they made esv/iccup count) | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On December 04 2013 23:20 marvellosity wrote: Except for the fact that, using actual metrics of aligulac and TLPD, he is actually way ahead? You literally could not be more wrong... What opterown said. Also, just look at the TLPD ladder to the right. Do you really think that Vortix should #9 in the ranking (or PartinG #5 for that matter)? This is also the problem with some of the arguments used in the ranking itself - there is a group of relatively good "export" Koreans who get to play each other a lot at all these tournaments around the world, getting credit by beating each other in kind of a circular logic (X is good because he beat other good people, which are good because at some point they beat X). | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
The biggest issue I have with the power ranking is that Wax couldn't seem to decide whether the power rank should only include last month or all the months since the last power rank. The last power rank was in September for results that were in August. So this power rank should either be for performance in November only or for performance in September-November. Looking at the rankings, last weekend's results were given too much credit and plenty of players got docked in the rankings for not playing last weekend. The write-up stated early on that this power rank was supposed to encompass three months worth, but the rankings did not give enough credit to September and October's results. The only people who got full credit for their September and October victories were the players who also performed well last weekend. Otherwise, the results were curved and players were only given partial credit for results prior to last weekend. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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absinthfee
Germany718 Posts
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
On December 05 2013 01:27 TheSubtleArt wrote: Haven't being paying attention to the sc2 scene for a long time, whatever happened to Flash??? He did well in pro league, but never got the big results in individual leagues. After second place at MLG this spring, he never advanced passed Ro16 in WCS Korea, lost some very disappointing games at DH Bucharest and got third in his group at IEM New York. At the moment he is probably considered on the same level as a standard korean player. Will win vs most foreigners (except DIMAGA!) and lose vs most high level koreans. Due to him not doing well in WCS KR, we haven't seen him for the last ~2 months. Hope he is practicing hard and does well next year! | ||
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shabby
Norway6402 Posts
On December 04 2013 06:33 ptbl wrote: This is either a troll post or you don't follow the sc2 scene closely. Taeja has won more than one tourney. Power Rank isn't about the whole year, its about the last month (in this case, couple months). | ||
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
On December 05 2013 02:52 shabby wrote: Power Rank isn't about the whole year, its about the last month (in this case, couple months). Taeja won Asus Rog/ 2 × Dreamhack and Homestorx Cup since August. He also placed ro4 in WCS AM Season 2 and Season 2 finals. That is way more than any other player did during that time. If you only take the last 3 months he still won HSC and DH ( dont rememmber if DH Bucharest was in the last 3 month). That is really amazing. The only person who could be number 1 instead of Taeja is Dear, because winning GSL and Season 3 finals back-to-back is nothing but god damn impressive. I dont know who i would give the edge, but overall i'd prefer Taeja ( again, im looking at tue last 5 or 6 month and not strictly at the last 3). I can only laugh at the stupidity of all the people who claim Taeja "only" won 1 tournament and is only number 1 because this power rank is done on TL. He has a strong claim on number 1 spot. | ||
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SkullZ9
Belgium2048 Posts
Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
Maru above innovation JD above soulkey | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On December 05 2013 03:46 shid0x wrote: Monthly cringes : Maru above innovation JD above soulkey Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. On December 05 2013 03:09 SkullZ9 wrote: Lol Taeja is so overrated. Can't wait till he wins a wcs finals or blizzcon, to prove he's really the best. Oh wait it will never happen. That is a weird prediction. Ok I will argue a bit more : if this power rank is based on the results from november, it should grant more importance to WCS global finals and not dreamhack, even if Taeja did a good run. I know that this forum is teamliquid, but you should try to not be too biased towards your own player because if you want to be THE sc2 forum, you need to be more objective. Taeja got destroyed in the first round of global finals, yet he is first in the power rank of the month ? Let me laugh First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. | ||
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote: Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. That is a weird prediction. First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I guess he would place JD on position 1-10, because he has won so many tournaments. Wait.. (I actually think JD is incredible good) | ||
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SkullZ9
Belgium2048 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote: Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. That is a weird prediction. First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. Dear first, then maybe Taeja yeah, but being first for november while goint out at the first round of the biggest tournament of the year .... Or sOs second because winning blizzcon is a big deal, more than dreamhack all kill quantic and hsc imo | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:22 SkullZ9 wrote: Dear first, then maybe Taeja yeah, but being first for november while goint out at the first round of the biggest tournament of the year .... Or sOs second because winning blizzcon is a big deal, more than dreamhack all kill quantic and hsc imo But if your power rank position is decided by when you went out at Blizzcon, shouldn't Dear not be up there given he was knocked out in the very next round by Jaedong? | ||
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SkullZ9
Belgium2048 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:25 Darkhoarse wrote: But if your power rank position is decided by when you went out at Blizzcon, shouldn't Dear not be up there given he was knocked out in the very next round by Jaedong? I never said Blizzcon should be the only criteria. But for me, WCS in general has been the most important series of tournament in 2013. And what I really dislike about this power rank is that it's really not logical. If you look at Taeja, there is a long explanation about the fact that it the YEAR OF TAEJA. So, ok, is it a power rank for 2013 ? In that case, why is herO in that ranking and not Bomber or Polt ? And if not, why are we talking about all the results of this year for Taeja ? | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:28 SkullZ9 wrote: I never said Blizzcon should be the only criteria. But for me, WCS in general has been the most important series of tournament in 2013. And what I really dislike about this power rank is that it's really not logical. If you look at Taeja, there is a long explanation about the fact that it the YEAR OF TAEJA. So, ok, is it a power rank for 2013 ? In that case, why is herO in that ranking and not Bomber or Polt ? And if not, why are we talking about all the results of this year for Taeja ? First off, the point about Bomber and Polt and the yearlong thing is a red herring that distracts from your original argument, which is that Taeja does not deserve to be rank 1. If I had to guess about Bomber and Polt not being in this power rank I would say most likely has something to do with their recent performances at Red Bull/IEM/DH etc. Back to the original topic of conversation, the YEAR OF TAEJA thing I think is just a brief anecdote to show how much he has dominated international tournaments this year. I don't think they used all of that to actually judge his placement in the power rank. So now you say that it shouldn't be about the whole year, but then you say: But for me, WCS in general has been the most important series of tournament in 2013. which makes it seem like you think it should be judged by the whole year of WCS? I dunno. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:08 Darkhoarse wrote: Innovation lost to Duckdeok, Maru won. EZPZ ranking for Waxangel. That is a weird prediction. First, "Destroyed" is a strong word for what happened in Taeja vs. Dear. Second, although importance must be placed on Blizzcon (see- sOs is in the ranking at all I mean what else has he been up to) there is something to be said for amount of exposure and games a player has recently. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Taeja has won a Homestory Cup, all killed Quantic, and then won Dreamhack's yearly championship. None as impressive as Blizzcon, but overall an impressive resume. Just curious, what would your power rank look like? Because I'm sure that wouldn't include ANY bias or questionable placements. I haven't seen Dear since Blizzcon, have you? Holy shit if you think that has anything to do with Taeja being better than Dear you're clueless. Taeja's on a sponsored and foreign team, Dear is not, so Taeja gets to go to more foreign tournaments. Has nothing to do with skill. But if your power rank position is decided by when you went out at Blizzcon, shouldn't Dear not be up there given he was knocked out in the very next round by Jaedong? How well has Taeja done against Jaedong again? | ||
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