• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:47
CET 15:47
KST 23:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies2ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1638 users

SjoW switches race to Protoss - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 26 Next All
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9408 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-03 19:08:11
December 03 2013 19:07 GMT
#441
On December 04 2013 00:58 ffadicted wrote:
This reminds me of when Byun switched from Toss to Terran cuz he thought Terran was super OP.
I remember him saying "I would be Code S already if I was terran", then he switched to terran and made code S lol


Well he qualified for best GSL league first two seasons (as protoss). Then 3rd season after he had transioned he didn't qualify at all to GSL and then 4th season he got 4th in Code a.

Looking back though - Protoss was much stronger than terran at that point in time due to Khadarian amulet. That's probably the most imbalanced thing ever to have been in Sc2.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45174 Posts
December 04 2013 03:24 GMT
#442
On December 04 2013 02:18 keglu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 01:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:34 keglu wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:29 Green_25 wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:13 perfidiusrex wrote:
protoss ain't having that high winrate in tournaments.recently they might be good but overall not that many protoses win anything.despite being the whiniest zerg and terran usually dominate the tournament scene by far.hell jaedong beat dear in the world finals.

The game is balanced at the highest levels noones denying that.




PvT is a 55% last month. This is basically worse than in 1/1/1 domination period.


Nothing is worse than the 1/1/1 domination period, or GomTvTvTvTvT...


It's worse in terms of winrates. Your opinion does not change that.


While I was indeed just stating my opinion, you haven't even verified that your truth value statement is correct. Is the current statistic of PvT at 55% win rate for Protoss actually a less even statistic than the GomTvT era? You made that claim, so please back it up with those old statistics to compare. (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm asking you to provide evidence to validate your assertion.)
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
keglu
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland485 Posts
December 04 2013 06:31 GMT
#443
On December 04 2013 12:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 02:18 keglu wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:34 keglu wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:29 Green_25 wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:13 perfidiusrex wrote:
protoss ain't having that high winrate in tournaments.recently they might be good but overall not that many protoses win anything.despite being the whiniest zerg and terran usually dominate the tournament scene by far.hell jaedong beat dear in the world finals.

The game is balanced at the highest levels noones denying that.




PvT is a 55% last month. This is basically worse than in 1/1/1 domination period.


Nothing is worse than the 1/1/1 domination period, or GomTvTvTvTvT...


It's worse in terms of winrates. Your opinion does not change that.


While I was indeed just stating my opinion, you haven't even verified that your truth value statement is correct. Is the current statistic of PvT at 55% win rate for Protoss actually a less even statistic than the GomTvT era? You made that claim, so please back it up with those old statistics to compare. (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm asking you to provide evidence to validate your assertion.)


http://aligulac.com/reports/
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45174 Posts
December 04 2013 06:55 GMT
#444
On December 04 2013 15:31 keglu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 12:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 02:18 keglu wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:34 keglu wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:29 Green_25 wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:13 perfidiusrex wrote:
protoss ain't having that high winrate in tournaments.recently they might be good but overall not that many protoses win anything.despite being the whiniest zerg and terran usually dominate the tournament scene by far.hell jaedong beat dear in the world finals.

The game is balanced at the highest levels noones denying that.




PvT is a 55% last month. This is basically worse than in 1/1/1 domination period.


Nothing is worse than the 1/1/1 domination period, or GomTvTvTvTvT...


It's worse in terms of winrates. Your opinion does not change that.


While I was indeed just stating my opinion, you haven't even verified that your truth value statement is correct. Is the current statistic of PvT at 55% win rate for Protoss actually a less even statistic than the GomTvT era? You made that claim, so please back it up with those old statistics to compare. (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm asking you to provide evidence to validate your assertion.)


http://aligulac.com/reports/


That shows records of Terran with nearly 60% win rate against both Protoss and Zerg back in the day. I don't think 55% PvT all of a sudden is that big a deal lol.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
TheOne26
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia142 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 07:28:47
December 04 2013 07:23 GMT
#445
meh, im more concerned with the second graph, showing a decline in T performance since the release of hots, with no sign of slowing down. in fact you can see the performance of T now is the same as in the patch zerg era...
keglu
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland485 Posts
December 04 2013 17:42 GMT
#446
On December 04 2013 15:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 15:31 keglu wrote:
On December 04 2013 12:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 02:18 keglu wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:34 keglu wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:29 Green_25 wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:13 perfidiusrex wrote:
protoss ain't having that high winrate in tournaments.recently they might be good but overall not that many protoses win anything.despite being the whiniest zerg and terran usually dominate the tournament scene by far.hell jaedong beat dear in the world finals.

The game is balanced at the highest levels noones denying that.




PvT is a 55% last month. This is basically worse than in 1/1/1 domination period.


Nothing is worse than the 1/1/1 domination period, or GomTvTvTvTvT...


It's worse in terms of winrates. Your opinion does not change that.


While I was indeed just stating my opinion, you haven't even verified that your truth value statement is correct. Is the current statistic of PvT at 55% win rate for Protoss actually a less even statistic than the GomTvT era? You made that claim, so please back it up with those old statistics to compare. (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm asking you to provide evidence to validate your assertion.)


http://aligulac.com/reports/


That shows records of Terran with nearly 60% win rate against both Protoss and Zerg back in the day. I don't think 55% PvT all of a sudden is that big a deal lol.


If we wanna go back to balance from end of 2010 indeed we should not worry about current trend and situation.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5218 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 18:15:08
December 04 2013 18:09 GMT
#447
On December 04 2013 04:07 Hider wrote:

Looking back though - Protoss was much stronger than terran at that point in time due to Khadarian amulet. That's probably the most imbalanced thing ever to have been in Sc2.


Reapers.

Anyway, Protoss was strong, but Terran was clearly stronger back in the day. Results and statistics back that up. The last month KA was in the game, Protoss was winning less than 50% of games against Terran.
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
December 04 2013 18:42 GMT
#448
On December 05 2013 03:09 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 04:07 Hider wrote:

Looking back though - Protoss was much stronger than terran at that point in time due to Khadarian amulet. That's probably the most imbalanced thing ever to have been in Sc2.


Reapers.

Anyway, Protoss was strong, but Terran was clearly stronger back in the day. Results and statistics back that up. The last month KA was in the game, Protoss was winning less than 50% of games against Terran.


Haha.

Also, (probably) not technically true. If you take, say, BabyKnight and Happy, put them on a current map, and give them the patch before amulet was removed, i would bet good money on babyk winning. A lot of early victories from terran came from the fact that maps naturally compressed games into timeframes where terran had the advantage, and other races didn't get to exercise their strengths as much.
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
CrankOut
Profile Joined November 2013
187 Posts
December 04 2013 18:47 GMT
#449
Foreigners cannot win with Terran, its just too hard. But switching to the by far easiest race is not a option...
blinken
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada368 Posts
December 04 2013 18:50 GMT
#450
On December 05 2013 03:47 CrankOut wrote:
Foreigners cannot win with Terran, its just too hard. But switching to the by far easiest race is not a option...


He switched to Protoss, not Zerg...
CakeSauc3
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1437 Posts
December 04 2013 18:57 GMT
#451
On December 05 2013 03:50 blinken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 03:47 CrankOut wrote:
Foreigners cannot win with Terran, its just too hard. But switching to the by far easiest race is not a option...


He switched to Protoss, not Zerg...


Come on, he didn't want to sink THAT low... besides, the gamertag PatchZerg would not have even been creative, whereas PatchToss is just awesome :D
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45174 Posts
December 04 2013 19:07 GMT
#452
On December 05 2013 03:42 GTPGlitch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 03:09 BronzeKnee wrote:
On December 04 2013 04:07 Hider wrote:

Looking back though - Protoss was much stronger than terran at that point in time due to Khadarian amulet. That's probably the most imbalanced thing ever to have been in Sc2.


Reapers.

Anyway, Protoss was strong, but Terran was clearly stronger back in the day. Results and statistics back that up. The last month KA was in the game, Protoss was winning less than 50% of games against Terran.


Haha.

Also, (probably) not technically true. If you take, say, BabyKnight and Happy, put them on a current map, and give them the patch before amulet was removed, i would bet good money on babyk winning. A lot of early victories from terran came from the fact that maps naturally compressed games into timeframes where terran had the advantage, and other races didn't get to exercise their strengths as much.


Yes, let's create a completely irrelevant scenario featuring a new map, arbitrary balance buffs, a different metagame, and two mid-tier pro-gamers to defend an assertion about the way the game used to be balanced, instead of looking at actual statistics and data.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
December 04 2013 19:11 GMT
#453
Guys this is the thread you're looking for I think.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
Littlesheep
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada217 Posts
December 05 2013 04:10 GMT
#454
He needs some coaching for Protoss, his micro is "okay" but his timings are very late on his attacks. He needs to practice builds and have a Pro-Protoss give him tips. I think his PvT is his best matchup because he understands how it works so well. I think his PvZ is abysmal and as a diamond Protoss I find his play sloppy and late, his attacks are too late, his builds orders are unsafe and not very efficient. He needs a lot of work or he will never make GM ^^ Good luck.
pro toez
Wulfen
Profile Joined December 2010
35 Posts
December 05 2013 07:59 GMT
#455
On December 04 2013 15:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 15:31 keglu wrote:
On December 04 2013 12:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 02:18 keglu wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2013 01:34 keglu wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:29 Green_25 wrote:
On December 03 2013 21:13 perfidiusrex wrote:
protoss ain't having that high winrate in tournaments.recently they might be good but overall not that many protoses win anything.despite being the whiniest zerg and terran usually dominate the tournament scene by far.hell jaedong beat dear in the world finals.

The game is balanced at the highest levels noones denying that.




PvT is a 55% last month. This is basically worse than in 1/1/1 domination period.


Nothing is worse than the 1/1/1 domination period, or GomTvTvTvTvT...


It's worse in terms of winrates. Your opinion does not change that.


While I was indeed just stating my opinion, you haven't even verified that your truth value statement is correct. Is the current statistic of PvT at 55% win rate for Protoss actually a less even statistic than the GomTvT era? You made that claim, so please back it up with those old statistics to compare. (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm asking you to provide evidence to validate your assertion.)


http://aligulac.com/reports/


That shows records of Terran with nearly 60% win rate against both Protoss and Zerg back in the day. I don't think 55% PvT all of a sudden is that big a deal lol.


I think that u should consider that the patch was at mid November and from October to November it was 3% increase for Protoss in the matchup so it can be easyly 58-60% now we have to w8 on the next month.

But U also can no denie that on EU and NA nearly 50% of the GM league are Protoss^^.

And last ZvT was in 2010 also about 60% and Fruitdealer won GSL. So I think all this ah Taeja wins Tournaments so the game is balanced is off the table now.

thanks for reading.^^
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
December 05 2013 08:03 GMT
#456
On December 05 2013 04:11 Darkhoarse wrote:
Guys this is the thread you're looking for I think.


No, it´s not, because nobody reads that.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8669 Posts
December 05 2013 08:16 GMT
#457
On December 05 2013 04:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 03:42 GTPGlitch wrote:
On December 05 2013 03:09 BronzeKnee wrote:
On December 04 2013 04:07 Hider wrote:

Looking back though - Protoss was much stronger than terran at that point in time due to Khadarian amulet. That's probably the most imbalanced thing ever to have been in Sc2.


Reapers.

Anyway, Protoss was strong, but Terran was clearly stronger back in the day. Results and statistics back that up. The last month KA was in the game, Protoss was winning less than 50% of games against Terran.


Haha.

Also, (probably) not technically true. If you take, say, BabyKnight and Happy, put them on a current map, and give them the patch before amulet was removed, i would bet good money on babyk winning. A lot of early victories from terran came from the fact that maps naturally compressed games into timeframes where terran had the advantage, and other races didn't get to exercise their strengths as much.


Yes, let's create a completely irrelevant scenario featuring a new map, arbitrary balance buffs, a different metagame, and two mid-tier pro-gamers to defend an assertion about the way the game used to be balanced, instead of looking at actual statistics and data.


Oh you, you and your reason <3
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3822 Posts
December 05 2013 08:34 GMT
#458
I will be interested to see how this pans out for him... But I don't expect it will really last.
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
December 05 2013 08:47 GMT
#459
On December 05 2013 03:50 blinken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 03:47 CrankOut wrote:
Foreigners cannot win with Terran, its just too hard. But switching to the by far easiest race is not a option...


He switched to Protoss, not Zerg...

Having played all three races to low-mid masters (before ladder changes) protoss is by far the easiest race to play
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 09:21:34
December 05 2013 08:59 GMT
#460
Think PvP will be his downfall. Compared to TvT it feels maybe not coinflippy, but on a razor's edge. Sjow has always struck me as a good strategic player but PvP seems to be more about trickery and mind games.

Edit: I also find it a bit funny that people don't agree with KA being the most OP thing that got removed. The maps were so insanely small that it didn't effect the game as much as it'd do now, but that doesn't really change how strong it was. If you got to hts + storm + KA they were a nightmare to deal with.
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 21h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko781
LamboSC2 160
Liquid`VortiX 72
trigger 47
SC2Nice 29
DivinesiaTV 28
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 10601
EffOrt 1226
Horang2 1154
Hyun 601
ZerO 410
actioN 312
Light 276
Rush 231
Sharp 198
ggaemo 145
[ Show more ]
Snow 125
Mind 82
Pusan 80
Killer 69
hero 61
Barracks 54
Sea.KH 50
Movie 44
soO 40
ToSsGirL 36
sas.Sziky 36
sorry 28
910 21
HiyA 18
Oya187 15
Terrorterran 10
Dota 2
XcaliburYe279
BananaSlamJamma176
League of Legends
C9.Mang0345
Counter-Strike
zeus600
oskar111
edward105
Other Games
rGuardiaN916
hiko410
Fuzer 385
Pyrionflax249
XaKoH 118
Mew2King77
QueenE76
nookyyy 47
Trikslyr32
ZerO(Twitch)21
RushiSC7
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 67
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV740
League of Legends
• Jankos3180
• Nemesis1915
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
21h 13m
Gerald vs YoungYakov
Spirit vs MaNa
SHIN vs Percival
Creator vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
1d 18h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 21h
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.