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Libo seems to agree, and he is da super terran. Look at that check.
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On November 15 2013 09:17 shin_toss wrote:
Good change.. so many tears.. Lmao
It's a fucking awful change
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On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:On November 14 2013 14:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
1/1/1 is still viable TvP, just build bunkers at their front. What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still. You remind of the I like turtles kid. Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain.
I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them.
Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do.
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On November 15 2013 12:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:On November 14 2013 14:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
1/1/1 is still viable TvP, just build bunkers at their front. What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still. You remind of the I like turtles kid. Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain. I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them. Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do.
Of course it is. Protoss are just saying stupid shit now. I trust TheDwf over other GM's not cause he's a Terran, but cause he provides actual game proof and not just pointless theorycraft. None of these Protoss trolls have even given any proof that this MU isn't skewed in a stupid way towards Protoss in the early game.
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On November 15 2013 12:22 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 12:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:On November 14 2013 14:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
1/1/1 is still viable TvP, just build bunkers at their front. What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still. You remind of the I like turtles kid. Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain. I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them. Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do. Of course it is. Protoss are just saying stupid shit now. I trust TheDwf over other GM's not cause he's a Terran, but cause he provides actual game proof and not just pointless theorycraft. None of these Protoss trolls have even given any proof that this MU isn't skewed in a stupid way towards Protoss in the early game.
sOs says it's good, it's good
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Northern Ireland27320 Posts
On November 15 2013 12:22 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 12:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:On November 14 2013 14:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
1/1/1 is still viable TvP, just build bunkers at their front. What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still. You remind of the I like turtles kid. Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain. I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them. Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do. Of course it is. Protoss are just saying stupid shit now. I trust TheDwf over other GM's not cause he's a Terran, but cause he provides actual game proof and not just pointless theorycraft. None of these Protoss trolls have even given any proof that this MU isn't skewed in a stupid way towards Protoss in the early game.
Yeah Dwf generally posts sense, or even if it is something I may not entirely agree with it's at least backed up with builds, timings etc.
Hell you don't even need to play the game at any competent level to post sense, if you're right you're right. Every man and his dog could have told you the Warhound was fucked, photon overcharge was another tool for insane blind greed, or mech will require a metric fuckton of work to make functional in TvP
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On November 15 2013 14:24 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 12:22 Chaggi wrote:On November 15 2013 12:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:On November 14 2013 14:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
1/1/1 is still viable TvP, just build bunkers at their front. What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still. You remind of the I like turtles kid. Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain. I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them. Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do. Of course it is. Protoss are just saying stupid shit now. I trust TheDwf over other GM's not cause he's a Terran, but cause he provides actual game proof and not just pointless theorycraft. None of these Protoss trolls have even given any proof that this MU isn't skewed in a stupid way towards Protoss in the early game. Yeah Dwf generally posts sense, or even if it is something I may not entirely agree with it's at least backed up with builds, timings etc. Hell you don't even need to play the game at any competent level to post sense, if you're right you're right. Every man and his dog could have told you the Warhound was fucked, photon overcharge was another tool for insane blind greed, or mech will require a metric fuckton of work to make functional in TvP
I honeslty don't see how Mech will ever work in TvP. It got buried in this thread, but Mass Void Rays and Phoenixes would counter Mech pretty well. If it goes long enough, Carriers. At least in theory... I've never tried it before or seen Sky Toss vs Terran Mech at a high level.
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Miss the days of WoL banshee cloak where it was greedy for protoss to skip an observer. Need to see more banshee play!
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On November 15 2013 14:30 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:24 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 15 2013 12:22 Chaggi wrote:On November 15 2013 12:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:
[quote]
What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still.
You remind of the I like turtles kid.
Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain. I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them. Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do. Of course it is. Protoss are just saying stupid shit now. I trust TheDwf over other GM's not cause he's a Terran, but cause he provides actual game proof and not just pointless theorycraft. None of these Protoss trolls have even given any proof that this MU isn't skewed in a stupid way towards Protoss in the early game. Yeah Dwf generally posts sense, or even if it is something I may not entirely agree with it's at least backed up with builds, timings etc. Hell you don't even need to play the game at any competent level to post sense, if you're right you're right. Every man and his dog could have told you the Warhound was fucked, photon overcharge was another tool for insane blind greed, or mech will require a metric fuckton of work to make functional in TvP I honeslty don't see how Mech will ever work in TvP. It got buried in this thread, but Mass Void Rays and Phoenixes would counter Mech pretty well. If it goes long enough, Carriers. At least in theory... I've never tried it before or seen Sky Toss vs Terran Mech at a high level.
I imagine if it's ever going to work it'll have to be the same way you mech vs a bio->bc transition
Loads of mines + a few tanks, thors, and a buttload of hellbats
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On November 15 2013 12:22 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 12:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:On November 14 2013 14:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
1/1/1 is still viable TvP, just build bunkers at their front. What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still. You remind of the I like turtles kid. Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain. I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them. Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do. Of course it is. Protoss are just saying stupid shit now. I trust TheDwf over other GM's not cause he's a Terran, but cause he provides actual game proof and not just pointless theorycraft. None of these Protoss trolls have even given any proof that this MU isn't skewed in a stupid way towards Protoss in the early game.
Ehh... I still remember how riled up he was about the WP speed changes, and how he was making it sound like it would pretty much break PvT (with lots of theorycrafting).
This isn't to say that his criticisms of the oracle changes aren't valid, but just that that previous instance hurt his credibility a lot in my eyes.
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On November 15 2013 15:41 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 12:22 Chaggi wrote:On November 15 2013 12:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 15 2013 08:51 Qikz wrote:On November 15 2013 06:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:On November 15 2013 06:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 16:55 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 14 2013 16:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 14 2013 14:42 XXXSmOke wrote:On November 14 2013 14:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
1/1/1 is still viable TvP, just build bunkers at their front. What lol, I dont get guys like you, you randomly come into a thread where we are discussing all of these changes and the future of everything based on the changes. And you walk in and go Oh, you can 1/1/1 still. You remind of the I like turtles kid. Even if it really was still viable, do you think we just want to all-in every single game vs Toss? No Thanks, You remind me of a troll. 1/1/1 is a good build. If you want to play passive and neglect Terrans strength (the early game) go for it, chances are you won't get far though considering how powerful Toss's mid game and late game is. Did your client neglected to update the game? We are now in Hots with MSC, nexus canon, and also carry some changes from WoL (immortal buff, rax nerf, multiple bunker nerfs etc) How many 1/1/1s did you see on high level TvP recently? Siege doesn't require research anymore, 1/1/1 is still viable as long as you build bunkers. ENough with the talk of this BS either post a rep or stop saying this because its not TRUE AT ALL LOL The mothership core really doesn't do enough damage to a large amount of targets in a quick time to completely kill the 1/1/1. You don't even need to attack into their nexus, you just set up a contain. I thought the entire counter to the 1/1/1 was to FE, get a better econ, stall the push a little and then overrun them. Doing a contain off a 1-base All-in sounds like exactly what the Protoss wants you to do. Of course it is. Protoss are just saying stupid shit now. I trust TheDwf over other GM's not cause he's a Terran, but cause he provides actual game proof and not just pointless theorycraft. None of these Protoss trolls have even given any proof that this MU isn't skewed in a stupid way towards Protoss in the early game. Ehh... I still remember how riled up he was about the WP speed changes, and how he was making it sound like it would pretty much break PvT (with lots of theorycrafting). This isn't to say that his criticisms of the oracle changes aren't valid, but just that that previous instance hurt his credibility a lot in my eyes.
Maybe. I know I wasn't very happy about the change myself and that was much more from my own interactions with WP rather than watching it in games. All I know is everytime I've asked a question from TheDwf in the Terran Help Topic, or seen him posting about patch/balance/theorycrafting, there's almost always been a replay, or specific game, or player tendencies that he'd show. I might not agree with some of the stuff he says (like how the fuck to hold a 2 base blink all in wtf) but he does back it up while the people arguing against him, at least in this topic, haven't done that.
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On November 15 2013 05:13 Viserion wrote:
It feels like the Widow Mine nerf is helping terrans to some extent, your marines are now way less vulnerable to WM´s friendly fire. So yeah there is definitely two ways to look at the WM change.
this is probably the dumbest thing i've read in this thread so far. there have been a couple of similar posts as well saying how the widow mine nerf is somehow a secret terran buff...HAHA what a fkn joke, how brainwashed are people these days?
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On November 15 2013 16:47 TheOne26 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 05:13 Viserion wrote:
It feels like the Widow Mine nerf is helping terrans to some extent, your marines are now way less vulnerable to WM´s friendly fire. So yeah there is definitely two ways to look at the WM change.
this is probably the dumbest thing i've read in this thread so far. there have been a couple of similar posts as well saying how the widow mine nerf is somehow a secret terran buff...HAHA what a fkn joke, how brainwashed are people these days?
People used to say the HotS Infestor is stronger than the WoL one... 
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I honeslty don't see how Mech will ever work in TvP. It got buried in this thread, but Mass Void Rays and Phoenixes would counter Mech pretty well. If it goes long enough, Carriers. At least in theory... I've never tried it before or seen Sky Toss vs Terran Mech at a high level.
Nah man, void rays and phoenics are shit against mech, a couple of volleys from thors and a hsm or two and they are all dead. Protoss cant split for shit as they have never had to learn how to micro due to the 1a nature of the protoss race so either they loose their army or them run away from the hsm which means you are constantly pushing them back and you will kill their expos pretty easy. This is of course subject to you knowing they are massing voids as with mech you have to know exactly what your opponent is doing and execute the correct response as the slightest error will spell gg with mech in TvP.
Carriers though are super good against mech with proper ground support (Ht's for storm against clumped up vikings and feedbacks for ravens and bcs.). If you watch avilos stream you wil lsee him rage about how mech just does not have the AA capability to beat carriers. Tempests are ez to deal with as pdd = win but carriers are just to much. Only way to beat them is 3/3 mass marine lol.
Maybe if they made it so instead of energy they made yamato cannon a cool down abilty where the cd is equal to the amount of time it takes for the energy to generate. Yamato is a solid counter to carriers but we never get to use it due to feedback's. i would prefer to see feedback as the tool toss use to neutralise our spell casters like our ravens and ghosts (as if we dont pdd then tempests will destroy us and + fb is 50 energy, correct me if i am wrong, and pdd is 100 so hts can counter ravens efficiently at a 2:1 ratio) instead of making our teir 3 air unit useless. If not that then maybe increase the range of yamato so we have a chance to use it with out being fb all the time.
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So this patch basically means that:
1) protoss cheese is going to be even harder to handle now;
2) tanks are still borderline useless (and will remain useless until they receive a straight-up damage buff, i.e. 50 damage against everything);
3) TvZ just got a little harder.
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On November 15 2013 17:23 maartendq wrote:
So this patch basically means that:
2) tanks are still borderline useless (and will remain useless until they receive a straight-up damage buff, i.e. 50 damage against everything);
That i agree with, it would help with tvp alot. it would mean it would take 3 shots to kill a zelot instead of 5 which would make toss think twice b4 just trying to 1a a mech army like they do atm as it would spread out the tanks shots much better making each volley do far more splash dmg across the entire army and they would be much better against archons, instead of 10 shots it would only take 7. (these are all un-upgraded btw).
Not sure if it would unbalance tvz but it wouldn't make to much of a difference in tvt, would just mean combat sheilds would be a super importaint upgrade as it would mean marines take 2 shots instead of 1.
Maybe making tanks 4 supply instead of 3 to compensate for it would be alright, but yea, the devs need to start listening to the community about mech, the list of idea's of how to make mech viable is long and untested. It makes me wonder if any of the devs have even tried to play mech at a semi high level of play b4.
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Its a shame we really never got a good grasp of what a 50 flat damage tank could do, Blizzard nerfed them to crap when everyone was still awful and playing on steppes of war.
It has always seemed like the most logical way to buff the tank to me, but we all know how Blizzard feels about pulling back changes that they've applied to the game.
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On November 15 2013 17:41 Bagi wrote:
Its a shame we really never got a good grasp of what a 50 flat damage tank could do, Blizzard nerfed them to crap when everyone was still awful and playing on steppes of war.
It has always seemed like the most logical way to buff the tank to me, but we all know how Blizzard feels about pulling back changes that they've applied to the game.
You can say that about every WoL beta change... Doesn't justify that crap being in the game at that time.
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On November 15 2013 17:41 Bagi wrote:
Its a shame we really never got a good grasp of what a 50 flat damage tank could do, Blizzard nerfed them to crap when everyone was still awful and playing on steppes of war.
It has always seemed like the most logical way to buff the tank to me, but we all know how Blizzard feels about pulling back changes that they've applied to the game.
Yeah, a little more open-mindedness for patching would be good. I wouldn´t mind them radically rebooting the game for LotV.
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LOracLes is all I got.
Every. Single. Game. I've ever seen 2 stargate oracle builds.
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EPT
