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On November 12 2013 08:57 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 08:54 SamirDuran wrote:
didn't DK saw what an oracle can be when it was putted in the hands of good protoss players such as sOs? You mean getting picked off or shut down almost right away in nearly every game? If the motivation behind the Oracle buff is that it is too slow and fragile for even very skilled players to consistently keep it alive, then sOs' games were a decent demonstration of that being the case. Of course, I think basing everything one one tournament is more than a little sily. But if you look around at Protoss play in general on the pro level, Oracles as a unit that remains alive and active throughout the game isn't really something we see almost ever.
I think the actul point is that protoss can do what they want, if it works fine, easy win, if not well lets go to a macrogame, we have msc what should happen. Situation of terran view, 1 base build if it works well we gained an early game advantage, if not game over, but thanks to msc it is anyways impossible to pull it off and thanks to the countless buffs for toss, any 1 base strat of toss beats 1 base of terran.
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so these changes are cool and all but where is my brood war music?!
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David Kim thought the buff to 2.7 attack speed was too much? There are no words...
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 12 2013 08:19 geokilla wrote:
I'm done playing this game. Going to play League.
bye.
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On November 12 2013 08:57 RaZorwire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 08:53 Heyoka wrote:
The oracle change is cool but I'm super confused by it...they said explicitly at that SC2 panel this weekend that they didn't think people would be able to appreciate better micro tools when asked about that LaLush video. At the very least it seems inconsistent. AFAIK that's not what they said; their point (according to Cloacken's comment afterwards, at least) was that they preferred for micro that is more visually apparent and easier to understand rather than something that relies on complex hidden mechanics.
I really think that this is a HUGE mistake from Blizzard. It is already very hard to understand Starcraft if you haven't actually played the game, and i highly doubt that any of LaLushs proposed changes would make it noticably harder to understand. There is already so many different mechanics in this game that is hard to understand, so making a few mechanics easier to understand to people who don't play the game is a very high price to pay for an overall less entertaining game to watch AND play.
Also i don't really get why Oracle needed this buff. Oracle is not well suited for lategame, but neither is Reapers and i don't see them getting buffed.
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the tank buff was so huge they had to nerf it lmao
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On November 12 2013 08:51 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Super ROFL at all the nerds here crying and saying they are not playing after these changes...
These changes are good...so is the fact you cry babies are going to quit playing...
The tank buff will make early Blink Stalker play significantly weaker (a good thing) - It will also make Roach busts weaker ( a good thing). The Oracle buff gives the Oracle more longevity (a good thing). The WM nerf means heavy ling play is more feasible v T ( a good thing). All those positives easily cancel out any negatives...
You taunt "nerds" for crying about the changes, but then you say some random bullshit in defense of them? You know that makes you no better than the "Fuck it, I'm playing League" idiots, right? I forgot why I hated this community so much, then I came here, and now I remember. After this post I'm going back to the Dota2 forums. At least they're not delusional about how "awesome" their community is.
How does .2 attack speed make Blink Stalker play significantly weaker? How does that change anything?
Warp Prism longevity was great because it meant more diverse play (i.e., more base drops, more splitting the army). Oracle longevity means....more of an overpowered unit that gives Protoss more all-in options, as opposed to reducing those, which would actually make the game better. How is increased Oracle longevity a good thing, in your view? And more than "I'm not a cry baby, that's why" please.
Widow mine nerf is the only thing you made sense about.
You look at a lot of knee jerk opinions/whine, and counter with your own condescending opinions, and walk away happy that you've successfully won the thread. Wow.
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On November 12 2013 08:51 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Super ROFL at all the nerds here crying and saying they are not playing after these changes...
These changes are good...so is the fact you cry babies are going to quit playing...
The tank buff will make early Blink Stalker play significantly weaker (a good thing) - It will also make Roach busts weaker ( a good thing). The Oracle buff gives the Oracle more longevity (a good thing). The WM nerf means heavy ling play is more feasible v T ( a good thing). All those positives easily cancel out any negatives...
the proffesor has spoken!
open tank vs P - check
oracles for the late-game - check
mass ling vs terran - check
:D
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Canada16217 Posts
people should quit bitching and actually play the game.
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Decent changes... I guess.
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On November 12 2013 09:08 sAsImre wrote:
the tank buff was so huge they had to nerf it lmao
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Good changes overall. From a spectator point of view I approve of mostly all of it.
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On November 12 2013 08:13 SoSexy wrote:
YES! They are nerfing WM!
Mainly Random ATM, but once was a lot Terran
Hated WM from very beginning. Too much randomness.
There is too much randomness/too strong attacks that are easy to execute which makes worse players get "too far", no matter if ladder or some tournes. Too much "luck" in some wins.
Wish they make a replacement of banelings, bring back the lurker instead of the swarm hosts - for Zerg
For Toss I hope they change the big deathball-thingie. There are several units that need to be completely overworked. Colossi + Storms and some gatewayunits in front is too much. And it either gets crushed or crushes, there is no constant back and forward which would be entertaining. Too often one big fight with lucky storm or whatever decides everything. Its always stupid when one spell is that strong and can kill big parts of the army. Terran attacks with bigger army, 2-3 storms army is gone cause he didn't see it coming. Would be great if there is a red mark on the ground 0.1 sec before the storm hits, like units are red when they get focused by seeker missile...
Or overwork warpin mechanics: Warping in with warpgate takes longer then with normal gateway, so protoss cannot macro however they want. Fix this stupid Forcefield thing, walling off opponents and preventing micro can't also be the solution... there would be easy solutions: mini-timewarp. Or not being able to cast it on buildings (bunkers) etc
Cut out mothership. Its Useless. Make the carrier more useful again. Not sure what I think of "do damage for free and then recall out" yet. Maybe it's just harassing, maybe it isn't used and abused enough so I can tell. I feel it could be a lot stronger than it is ATM.
Terran: hope they kill the Thor and bring back the goliath. Medivac Boost can be cut out. Its only availiable now, cause against the other races Terran wouldn't have any chance at all anymore (...eg in straight fights). This is circumventing the problem, not solving it.
Running around the opponents army cannot be the way to go. It's not only frustrating for the Terran (building up, having chosen maybe a better strategy, doing lots of damage with harassement and drops, but losing to the counter semi-all in... it is also frustrating for the other races. Because dropping has been made easier (for all races, but we don't see that enough from Zerg  Why not sometimes drop some banelings into mineral lines when you already have overlord speed?), its always very frustrating when you just get annoyed/surprised all the time with these damn drops :D Ok drops are, and hopefully will always be part of the game, but still its a bit... i dunno too much?
Could be alone feeling that way... or is anybody out there feeling the same way?
The other changes:
Well I don't like speed changes that much: makes the game more hectic, harder to follow. It is now even harder to defend against an orbital cheese I guess, but it's fine for the toss to micro. Same for Zerg, but with burrowed Roaches I think this could lead to some nice harassement or other strategies... looking forward to it, although I will hate it when my opponent does it :D
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On November 12 2013 09:12 Rollora wrote:Mainly Random ATM, but once was a lot Terran Hated WM from very beginning. Too much randomness. There is too much randomness/too strong attacks that are easy to execute which makes worse players get "too far", no matter if ladder or some tournes. Too much "luck" in some wins. Wish they make a replacement of banelings, bring back the lurker instead of the swarm hosts - for Zerg For Toss I hope they change the big deathball-thingie. There are several units that need to be completely overworked. Colossi + Storms and some gatewayunits in front is too much. And it either gets crushed or crushes, there is no constant back and forward which would be entertaining. Too often one big fight with lucky stomr or whatever decides everything. Or overwork warpin mechanics: Warping in with warpgate takes longer then with normal gateway, so protoss cannot macro however they want. Terran: hope they kill the Thor and bring back the goliath. Medivac Boost can be cut out. Its only availiable now, cause against the other races Terran wouldn't have any chance at all anymore. This is circumventing the problem, not solving it. Running around the opponents army cannot be the way to go. It's not only frustrating for the Terran (building up, having chosen maybe a better strategy, doing lots of damage with harassement and drops, but losing to the counter semi-all in... it is also frustrating for the other races. Because dropping has been made easier (for all races, but we don't see that enough from Zerg Why not sometimes drop some banelings into mineral lines when you already have overlord speed?), its always very frustrating when you just get annoyed/surprised all the time with these damn drops :D Ok drops are, and hopefully will always be part of the game, but still its a bit... i dunno too much? Could be alone feeling that way... or is anybody out there feeling the same way?
i completely agree, hated the mine and boost changes, talk about that they went the wrong way
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Pretty interesting changes.. I like the Tunneling Claws change.. same with the WM and Tank.. guess I like them all!
XD
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These changes are going to be a lot of fun! They definitely create a lot of new options! 
Also, reading this thread makes me wish I were a moderator =)
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I'm so glad i quit this game a couple of months ago and switched to LoL...
Anyone, who seriously still believes that this balance team is capable of creating a balanced and fun-to-watch game, must be completely blind. Blizzards balance team just doesnt have the guts to put in major changes to actually create balance and especially a lot of options ingame. They said now for like TWO YEARS that they wanted to make mech viable, and have even made it worse, and there are actually people LIKING these changes? People actually think that a balance team, that cannot make a composition viable in 2 years time, NOT EVEN with the addon, can manage to create a balanced game?
They made unnecessary changes in WoL that werent even community approved and COMPLETELY destroyed the game with it(queen/overlord change), and still they make questionable or at least unnecessary and not enough tested changes?
This was once my favorite game to watch besides from balancing, there was nothing i liked more for a time than to watch pro level Starcraft matches. But even the entertainment factor got ruined by the balance team. I just dont even enjoy watching this game anymore, which i once so liked. And why? Cuz u see THE SAME SHIT every game, 3 CC all over the place. The last time terran had 1 base pressuring option WITHOUT commiting and allining, was 2 years ago, and since thats gone now thanks to MSC and queendralisks, its just reaper into 3cc all day every day. And since they won't change mech properly, ull also see the same lategame compositions in just every single game. Sad....
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All in all, nothing too big in changes, as a Terran, mines needed to be changed, but at the same time, banelings' 100% damage across its entire radius needed to be changed, along with storm (COMPLETE re-work), colossus range (get rid of thermal lance and make them 7 range out of the gate), and chain fungal.
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On November 12 2013 09:10 NovemberstOrm wrote:
people should quit bitching and actually play the game.
It's maybe because we care a lot about it, playing it a shit ton ? I play a lot Starcraft 2 and as a terran I KNOW that the oracle will be a fucking pain in the ass (it already is but much more now..).
The WM is the key unit in TvZ, and with this massive nerf, it will be so fucking impossible to win without gimmicky play.
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EPT
