|
On November 19 2013 01:40 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 01:32 JustPassingBy wrote:On November 18 2013 22:01 Big J wrote:On November 18 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
Health/cost ratio aside, being vulnerable to air attacks isn't a particular weakness, to me it's more a 'build x counter unit' interaction. They are not particularily vulnerable to air attacks. They are just targetable by air and ground attacks. In PvZ the main counters to Colossi are the ground/air attack of the mutalisk and the ground/air abduct of the viper and the air attack of Corruptors. And in WoL a main counter to it was the AtG of the Broodlords. It's not like Corruptors are the only choice in HotS. It's just Terran bio that has it so narrow with vikings being the only choice. And that is because tanks/thors/BCs - which would be very good as well - suck. It's far from "build unit X against Colossus" in theory. It's just that gameplay/balancewise the other choices for Terran are shit. Actually Thor would be better if it could attack collossi with their air attack, which they already seem to prioritize to ground attack. I'm still not sure why blizzard won't allow it as it seem to make sense from a logical point of view... I think you underestimate the Thors ground attack: Ground DPS: 46.9 (+4.7) Air DPS: 8 (+1.3) (Explosive) +8 (+1.3) vs Light (Explosive) 12 (+1) (High Impact) Though I guess the extra 3range for a first shot might come in handy. I think units always use their highest dps weapon automatically for the target they prioritize, though I'm not sure.
Thor is actually a really strong unit in TvP, but the immortal so strong that making thors is pointless ;(.
|
Its not about the first shot its about the main battle you can't exactly waltz right up to a colo with zlots and eveyrthing else in the way LOL
|
On November 19 2013 01:43 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 01:40 Big J wrote:On November 19 2013 01:32 JustPassingBy wrote:On November 18 2013 22:01 Big J wrote:On November 18 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
Health/cost ratio aside, being vulnerable to air attacks isn't a particular weakness, to me it's more a 'build x counter unit' interaction. They are not particularily vulnerable to air attacks. They are just targetable by air and ground attacks. In PvZ the main counters to Colossi are the ground/air attack of the mutalisk and the ground/air abduct of the viper and the air attack of Corruptors. And in WoL a main counter to it was the AtG of the Broodlords. It's not like Corruptors are the only choice in HotS. It's just Terran bio that has it so narrow with vikings being the only choice. And that is because tanks/thors/BCs - which would be very good as well - suck. It's far from "build unit X against Colossus" in theory. It's just that gameplay/balancewise the other choices for Terran are shit. Actually Thor would be better if it could attack collossi with their air attack, which they already seem to prioritize to ground attack. I'm still not sure why blizzard won't allow it as it seem to make sense from a logical point of view... I think you underestimate the Thors ground attack: Ground DPS: 46.9 (+4.7) Air DPS: 8 (+1.3) (Explosive) +8 (+1.3) vs Light (Explosive) 12 (+1) (High Impact) Though I guess the extra 3range for a first shot might come in handy. I think units always use their highest dps weapon automatically for the target they prioritize, though I'm not sure. Thor is actually a really strong unit in TvP, but the immortal so strong that making thors is pointless ;(.
that is actualy not true at all . the main problem with thor vs protoss before it was that it was getting feedback . now they are rly strong even vs an army that has immortals .
|
On November 19 2013 01:49 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 01:43 Faust852 wrote:On November 19 2013 01:40 Big J wrote:On November 19 2013 01:32 JustPassingBy wrote:On November 18 2013 22:01 Big J wrote:On November 18 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
Health/cost ratio aside, being vulnerable to air attacks isn't a particular weakness, to me it's more a 'build x counter unit' interaction. They are not particularily vulnerable to air attacks. They are just targetable by air and ground attacks. In PvZ the main counters to Colossi are the ground/air attack of the mutalisk and the ground/air abduct of the viper and the air attack of Corruptors. And in WoL a main counter to it was the AtG of the Broodlords. It's not like Corruptors are the only choice in HotS. It's just Terran bio that has it so narrow with vikings being the only choice. And that is because tanks/thors/BCs - which would be very good as well - suck. It's far from "build unit X against Colossus" in theory. It's just that gameplay/balancewise the other choices for Terran are shit. Actually Thor would be better if it could attack collossi with their air attack, which they already seem to prioritize to ground attack. I'm still not sure why blizzard won't allow it as it seem to make sense from a logical point of view... I think you underestimate the Thors ground attack: Ground DPS: 46.9 (+4.7) Air DPS: 8 (+1.3) (Explosive) +8 (+1.3) vs Light (Explosive) 12 (+1) (High Impact) Though I guess the extra 3range for a first shot might come in handy. I think units always use their highest dps weapon automatically for the target they prioritize, though I'm not sure. Thor is actually a really strong unit in TvP, but the immortal so strong that making thors is pointless ;(. that is actualy not true at all . the main problem with thor vs protoss before it was that it was getting feedback . now they are rly strong even vs an army that has immortals .
May I remind you that Immortals with +3 attack deal 65 damage to Armored targets?
|
On November 19 2013 01:49 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 01:43 Faust852 wrote:On November 19 2013 01:40 Big J wrote:On November 19 2013 01:32 JustPassingBy wrote:On November 18 2013 22:01 Big J wrote:On November 18 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
Health/cost ratio aside, being vulnerable to air attacks isn't a particular weakness, to me it's more a 'build x counter unit' interaction. They are not particularily vulnerable to air attacks. They are just targetable by air and ground attacks. In PvZ the main counters to Colossi are the ground/air attack of the mutalisk and the ground/air abduct of the viper and the air attack of Corruptors. And in WoL a main counter to it was the AtG of the Broodlords. It's not like Corruptors are the only choice in HotS. It's just Terran bio that has it so narrow with vikings being the only choice. And that is because tanks/thors/BCs - which would be very good as well - suck. It's far from "build unit X against Colossus" in theory. It's just that gameplay/balancewise the other choices for Terran are shit. Actually Thor would be better if it could attack collossi with their air attack, which they already seem to prioritize to ground attack. I'm still not sure why blizzard won't allow it as it seem to make sense from a logical point of view... I think you underestimate the Thors ground attack: Ground DPS: 46.9 (+4.7) Air DPS: 8 (+1.3) (Explosive) +8 (+1.3) vs Light (Explosive) 12 (+1) (High Impact) Though I guess the extra 3range for a first shot might come in handy. I think units always use their highest dps weapon automatically for the target they prioritize, though I'm not sure. Thor is actually a really strong unit in TvP, but the immortal so strong that making thors is pointless ;(. that is actualy not true at all . the main problem with thor vs protoss before it was that it was getting feedback . now they are rly strong even vs an army that has immortals .
Thors are so beefy in a straight up fight. Range 7, 30 x 2 damage before upgrades and a great fire rate. They
maul zealots so bad and kill immortals if the don't have shields.
But they cost a mint and build slow as hell. Still, they are great once they start shooting at stuff.
|
And a Thor with +3 does 78 damage, armoured or not, to anything that isn't an immortal. And it shoots up. What's your point?
|
On November 19 2013 01:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
And a Thor with +3 does 78 damage, armoured or not to anything that isn't an immortal. And it shoots up. What's your point?
My point is that Immortals effortlessly bash Thors, like pretty much everything Armored provided they are in range.
|
They are to immobile and are super clunky when attacking and overkill units..... Early gam ethey were something to fear in TvP but MSC rape cannon makes it a Nill point....
|
Yes, because PvT armies are made purely out of immortals, as opposed to a few immortals, if they are taken at all.
And everthing T has is armoured and in range of an immortal.
|
On November 19 2013 01:40 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 01:32 JustPassingBy wrote:On November 18 2013 22:01 Big J wrote:On November 18 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
Health/cost ratio aside, being vulnerable to air attacks isn't a particular weakness, to me it's more a 'build x counter unit' interaction. They are not particularily vulnerable to air attacks. They are just targetable by air and ground attacks. In PvZ the main counters to Colossi are the ground/air attack of the mutalisk and the ground/air abduct of the viper and the air attack of Corruptors. And in WoL a main counter to it was the AtG of the Broodlords. It's not like Corruptors are the only choice in HotS. It's just Terran bio that has it so narrow with vikings being the only choice. And that is because tanks/thors/BCs - which would be very good as well - suck. It's far from "build unit X against Colossus" in theory. It's just that gameplay/balancewise the other choices for Terran are shit. Actually Thor would be better if it could attack collossi with their air attack, which they already seem to prioritize to ground attack. I'm still not sure why blizzard won't allow it as it seem to make sense from a logical point of view... I think you underestimate the Thors ground attack: Ground DPS: 46.9 (+4.7) Air DPS: 8 (+1.3) (Explosive) +8 (+1.3) vs Light (Explosive) 12 (+1) (High Impact) Though I guess the extra 3range for a first shot might come in handy. I think units always use their highest dps weapon automatically for the target they prioritize, though I'm not sure.
I think it's their highest base dps. Because queen have a ground dps than air dps with upgrades, yet they still target colossi with their air attack.
|
On November 19 2013 02:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Yes, because PvT armies are made purely out of immortals, as opposed to a few immortals, if they are taken at all.
And everthing T has is armoured and in range of an immortal.
You probably build a good bunch of Immortals when your opponent uses strong mech units as his army core. Getting to shoot with a range 6 unit is not that hard as well.
|
He posts damage in big bolded letters, "reminding" everyone. No explanation.
Why would you even make collosii vs mech terran?
And this is related to the collosii lack of major disadvantages compared to the tank how?
Pointless. Hence, what's your point?
The colosii even has more hp per cost than it's equivalent in the terran army.
|
On November 19 2013 02:08 UglyBastard wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 02:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Yes, because PvT armies are made purely out of immortals, as opposed to a few immortals, if they are taken at all.
And everthing T has is armoured and in range of an immortal. You probably build a good bunch of Immortals when your opponent uses strong mech units as his army core. Getting to shoot with a range 6 unit is not that hard as well.
Yeah, but without the harden shield, the immortal loses in an straight up fight. Since both units has a similar cost of around 300 minerals, it's really a question of if the immortal gets EMPrd or not. People often forget that the immortal costs almost as much as a colossi.
The flaw with the Thor is it takes 9 years to make one and they are slow as shit.
|
On November 19 2013 02:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Yes, because PvT armies are made purely out of immortals, as opposed to a few immortals, if they are taken at all.
And everthing T has is armoured and in range of an immortal.
Not sure if Troll or completely out of touch with reality...:D
If the Terran go mech you obviosuly go mass Immortal, like tripple robo immortal into the late game with archon support and chargelot/prism, if you see super heavy hellbat/helion compositions then stalker-collosi additions are not wrong I guess. But vs Tank or Thor centric mech you go mass immortal into even more immortals into air-toss using the sick mobility of the Protoss army to ravage the Terran economy.
Now vs bio I would not recommend going mass immortal :/ but you can try
|
I would like to know what u think if they change the collosi dmg so it does +dmg against Light but nerf the overall dmg - so they still melt through rines or lings and hydras and stuff like that but dont end up like beeing effective against any ground unit.
This just came into my mind - not thought out so much - but imo this would be a good change to weaken the p-deathball without making them (the collosi) useless (especially against T bio).
|
Its an interesting Idea but then Marauder armies woudl become scary LOL I guess thats the point though protoss is made of hard counters for everything Terran has LOL
I'm sure protoss players would think your retarded because they would never ever want that.......
|
On November 19 2013 02:17 ImperialFist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 02:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Yes, because PvT armies are made purely out of immortals, as opposed to a few immortals, if they are taken at all.
And everthing T has is armoured and in range of an immortal. Not sure if Troll or completely out of touch with reality...:D
I disagree with someone, so I'll quote him out of context, ignore previous and later posts, and the people he are responding to, and call him a troll.
|
On November 19 2013 02:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 02:17 ImperialFist wrote:On November 19 2013 02:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Yes, because PvT armies are made purely out of immortals, as opposed to a few immortals, if they are taken at all.
And everthing T has is armoured and in range of an immortal. Not sure if Troll or completely out of touch with reality...:D I disagree with someone, so I'll quote him out of context, ignore previous and later posts, and the people he are responding to, and call him a troll.
OOHHHHH THE IRONY IS KILLING ME. He was saying the sarcasm you put forth was trollish and out of touch with reality because if someone goes mech you will mass Immortal a good protoss doesn't just go Blind colo ..............
|
On November 19 2013 02:04 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 01:40 Big J wrote:On November 19 2013 01:32 JustPassingBy wrote:On November 18 2013 22:01 Big J wrote:On November 18 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
Health/cost ratio aside, being vulnerable to air attacks isn't a particular weakness, to me it's more a 'build x counter unit' interaction. They are not particularily vulnerable to air attacks. They are just targetable by air and ground attacks. In PvZ the main counters to Colossi are the ground/air attack of the mutalisk and the ground/air abduct of the viper and the air attack of Corruptors. And in WoL a main counter to it was the AtG of the Broodlords. It's not like Corruptors are the only choice in HotS. It's just Terran bio that has it so narrow with vikings being the only choice. And that is because tanks/thors/BCs - which would be very good as well - suck. It's far from "build unit X against Colossus" in theory. It's just that gameplay/balancewise the other choices for Terran are shit. Actually Thor would be better if it could attack collossi with their air attack, which they already seem to prioritize to ground attack. I'm still not sure why blizzard won't allow it as it seem to make sense from a logical point of view... I think you underestimate the Thors ground attack: Ground DPS: 46.9 (+4.7) Air DPS: 8 (+1.3) (Explosive) +8 (+1.3) vs Light (Explosive) 12 (+1) (High Impact) Though I guess the extra 3range for a first shot might come in handy. I think units always use their highest dps weapon automatically for the target they prioritize, though I'm not sure. I think it's their highest base dps. Because queen have a ground dps than air dps with upgrades, yet they still target colossi with their air attack.
yeah, you're probably right. Tested the queen vs a colossus with +3attack against +0armor and it still used the air attack within a range of 5, though in that scenario the ground dps would be higher.
|
Like I said, ignoring later and previous posts.
What does immortal damage have to do with whether the thor should prioritsing ground/air attack vs the collosii, and the relative lack of appropriate weaknesses the collosii has? But yeah ignore my post replying to yours, use somebody else's post unrelated to yours to try to bash the person who shut down your point. Time to get out of here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
