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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:07 Plansix wrote: Because it was a shit post and called a bunch of pros bad just so he could bitch about balance, why else? the shitposting is your you're just stirring shit up all day in order to fight the so called negativity you think you're perceiving while in reality you're flame baiting all day. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:06 Musicus wrote: Ok wow, in numbers the difference seems so small. But in the game Select just played you really felt the difference, he is pretty happy with the new tanks. Yeah, he was ripping it up. And marines still maul mutas when they don't have to spread out to avoid mine splash damage. | ||
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kaos00
United States125 Posts
If you're not top .05% of the game, then get better. On the ladder, you'll win 50%~ of your games. If that isn't enough, then go play basketball with midgets or something that satisfies you. | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
Although I will admit that I am a bit worried for Terran, but we'll see... But if Blizzard wants to make changes to mech, why not make changes to micro because that can really amp up mech since a lot of the highlighted units in the micro were mechanical units! As for the oracle, you do know that Terrans have widow mines right, and it wouldn't hurt that much to build 1 turret on his mineral line (although greedy/aggressive Terrans may not like this change). | ||
PineapplePizza
United States749 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:08 Plansix wrote: Yeah, he was ripping it up. And marines still maul mutas when they don't have to spread out to avoid mine splash damage. This is what he means. Stop flame-baiting. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:09 kaos00 wrote: How many Terran champions are there in WCS compared to Zerg? Obviously the Terran whine is OP. If you're not top .05% of the game, then get better. On the ladder, you'll win 50%~ of your games. If that isn't enough, then go play basketball with midgets or something that satisfies you. bad luck someone is 0.05% of the game in this very thread and not really happy about the change :D (not me ofc) | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:09 hansonslee wrote: Just reading the comments made me lose faith in the SC2 community. You guys haven't even tried or seen these changes in action yet. So, chill fuck the out and play the fucking game! Although I will admit that I am a bit worried for Terran, but we'll see... But if Blizzard wants to make changes to mech, why not make changes to micro because that can really amp up mech since a lot of the highlighted units in the micro were mechanical units! david kim literraly answered that it'd be too hard for the casual viewer to understand what was going on. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12427 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:09 PineapplePizza wrote: This is what he means. Stop flame-baiting. ...he was agreeing with him. Wtf is wrong with people? | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:00 awesomoecalypse wrote: What? Jesus, no. Do you even play this game? 5 marines with no upgrades is enough to zone out the oracle. 5. That's all you need to survive the initial harass and completely zone out or kill the Oracle, and it is 100% doable while playing standard and without hopelessly compromising your build. That is true currently, and it will be no less true post patch when proxy Oracles hits like 10 seconds faster. From there, you have 5 options that will make you safe enough to move out. Get a turret. Get a bunch more marines. Tech to stim. Get a viking. Or get a Widow mine or two. You don't need to do all of those things and go for 111. Hell, you don't even need to do most of those things. All you need to do is one of those things. That is not some vicious stranglehold that will stifle Terran gameplay and railroad them into a single techpath. Its just routine map control and pressure. You won't have 5 marines at 3:30 if you open reaper. | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:09 hansonslee wrote: Just reading the comments made me lose faith in the SC2 community. You guys haven't even tried or seen these changes in action yet. So, chill fuck the out and play the fucking game! Thats where youre wrong. A lot of us actually tried the balance map, and the tankchange was so miniscule you couldnt even tell the difference. Then they made it even less. So yeah, you havin a laff David Kim? | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:09 PineapplePizza wrote: This is what he means. Stop flame-baiting. lol wut? User was warned for this post User was warned for this post | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:11 sAsImre wrote: david kim literraly answered that it'd be too hard for the casual viewer to understand what was going on. Yeah, I remember that. That was a pretty stupid response imo. I have a feeling that these mech upgrades may not be enough, but we'll see... On November 12 2013 11:12 Snusmumriken wrote: Thats where youre wrong. A lot of us actually tried the balance map, and the tankchange was so miniscule you couldnt even tell the difference. Then they made it even less. So yeah, you havin a laff David Kim? Yeah, the Siege Tank change really left me confused because I thought 2.7 was a reasonable change, but making it 2.8 is a bit much imo. But like I said, let's see what happens... I was mainly talking about the Oracle change, and people were pissed off about that. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:09 kaos00 wrote: How many Terran champions are there in WCS compared to Zerg? Obviously the Terran whine is OP. If you're not top .05% of the game, then get better. On the ladder, you'll win 50%~ of your games. If that isn't enough, then go play basketball with midgets or something that satisfies you. Yeah so fuck every people in this thread, this game etc because they can't train 10h/day. What's your point ? SC2 is not only for thee pro, but for us all. And at my level, theses changes are certainly not balanced. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:14 hansonslee wrote: Yeah, I remember that. That was a pretty stupid response imo. I have a feeling that these mech upgrades may not be enough, but we'll see... well that at least show how much consideration they really have for the community when it's not doing something to please the whiners but actually constructive criticism: none. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I know, I try to agree that the tank was really awesome in Select's game and marines still killed mutas that tried to kill the tanks. Who would have known that I was flame baiting? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5219 Posts
On November 12 2013 08:53 Heyoka wrote: The oracle change is cool but I'm super confused by it...they said explicitly at that SC2 panel this weekend that they didn't think people would be able to appreciate better micro tools when asked about that LaLush video. At the very least it seems inconsistent. If you follow Blizzard's balance and game design changes closely, you'll realize very quickly that they have no idea what they are doing. Nothing they do is consistent. Remember when they said they thought Siege Tanks were boring? That was right after they gave Zerg the Swarmhost, and they thought it would promote aggressive mid game Zerg play... They have no clue. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:15 Plansix wrote: I know, I try to agree that the tank was really awesome in Select's game and marines still killed mutas that tried to kill the tanks. Who would have known that I was flame baiting? Select, the guy who lost a move command reaper into slow ling at 4min. What a valid player to watch the effect of the patch. | ||
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dyDrawer
Canada438 Posts
I feel like the Siege Tank buff is NOT a right step towards making mech more viable against Protoss and Zerg. I'd like to see keeping its attack speed the same (or even nerfing it if you feel it's too stronk), but maybe do something about the time it takes to siege and unsiege (maybe an Armory unlocked upgrade if not straight out buffing it). The biggest problem I feel with Mech is its pace: it just cannot keep up with the pace of today's metagame. When you're having a 200/200 maxed out army, Mech is actually deceptively strong against Protoss, and will easily beat a Protoss player who does not know how to properly counter. Immortals will lose cost efficiency once Siege Tanks reach critical mass, while High Templars can be zoned out by mobile Hellions. Yes, Hellions are still critical. They are the mobility factor that you desperately need in such a slow army. Hellbats are still important in straight up engagements to sponge damage and deal with Zealots, but without Hellions it can be difficult to stop harasses and you WILL be Stormed to death (Bomber vs. Rain, Anaconda, OSL semis). Of course, Protoss air (Carrier/Tempest/Void Ray) still poses a threat to a ground based Mech army, but considering Protoss air is more expensive, that is to be expected, and Terran should be making transitions into its own fleet or hit a timing before Protoss air reaches critical mass. My point is: army composition getting hard countered is not the direst problem in TvP mech. Stopping harassment can be a little challenging, but with Hellions, Turrets etc. it's doable, and a testament of your mechanics. The problem with Siege Tank based Mech, is its effectiveness reduces dramatically once Tanks are unsieged. The key to Siege Tanks retaining cost efficiency against Immortals is the splash damage. Thors and unsieged Tanks simply cannot match the sheer efficiency of the Immortal (it's a really good unit, I know). So when Tanks are unsieged you can't win, but when they're sieged you can't push. Protoss can stall and soften the Mech push so much and buy so much time by forcing sieging and unsieging. Increasing the speed of sieging/unsieging definitely helps addressing this problem. Similar problem is even more dire in TvZ. Mech is very good against most pre-Hive compositions. Swarm Hosts don't necessarily kill a Mech army, because of the splash and range from Tanks. But again, Tanks need to be sieged to deal with Swarm Hosts. More importantly, Vipers with Blinding Cloud is the true counter to mech, even more so than Immortals IMO. Again, sieging and unsieging speed buff also helps address these issues. | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:16 BronzeKnee wrote: If you follow Blizzard's balance and game design changes closely, you'll realize very quickly that they have no idea what they are doing. Nothing they do is consistent. Remember when they said they thought Siege Tanks were boring? That was right after they gave Zerg the Swarmhost. they're just ahead of the meta. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 11:16 BronzeKnee wrote: If you follow Blizzard's balance and game design changes closely, you'll realize very quickly that they have no idea what they are doing. Nothing they do is consistent. Remember when they said they thought Siege Tanks were boring? That was right after they gave Zerg the Swarmhost. i'd rather say that it looks like a lot like their wow balance approach: refuse to recognize you won't succeed with your methods but regularly changing the balance in order to please some parts of the community. If everyone get a part of the pie, most of them will forget the bigger picture. | ||
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