• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:53
CET 15:53
KST 23:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational10SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)20Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 [Short Story] The Last GSL Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Fantasy's Q&A video [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1570 users

HotS Balance Update - November 11 - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
1858 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 93 Next
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
November 12 2013 01:24 GMT
#181
On November 12 2013 10:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think anyone who thinks the Tank buff is minor or incidental didn't play the test map, and definitely didn't watch any of the pros on it. Buffed tanks were tearing everything up badly.


especially mutas.
Zest fanboy.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 12 2013 01:24 GMT
#182
On November 12 2013 10:19 sAsImre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:17 Leporello wrote:
It's really sad that Terrans were leaning so hard on a unit that people react this way to that nerf -- a unit, btw, that is highly immobile and dormant.

Widow mines are still great and potentially hugely cost-effective.

If you think this Widow Mine nerf is going to hurt your gameplay -- then you didn't have any gameplay.


Nice one. Tell that to bogus/maru/polt...


Are they struggling in tvz now? Did I miss something?
When I think of something else, something will go here
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
November 12 2013 01:25 GMT
#183
On November 12 2013 10:24 sAsImre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think anyone who thinks the Tank buff is minor or incidental didn't play the test map, and definitely didn't watch any of the pros on it. Buffed tanks were tearing everything up badly.


especially mutas.


Yeah. Its too bad they didn't figure out a way to buff mech in such a way that it synergizes better with air to help a meching player deal with air armies...
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 12 2013 01:26 GMT
#184
On November 12 2013 10:24 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:19 sAsImre wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:17 Leporello wrote:
It's really sad that Terrans were leaning so hard on a unit that people react this way to that nerf -- a unit, btw, that is highly immobile and dormant.

Widow mines are still great and potentially hugely cost-effective.

If you think this Widow Mine nerf is going to hurt your gameplay -- then you didn't have any gameplay.


Nice one. Tell that to bogus/maru/polt...


Are they struggling in tvz now? Did I miss something?

They didn't win everything forever, just a lot of stuff. I guess that is struggling?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
November 12 2013 01:27 GMT
#185
On November 12 2013 10:24 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:19 sAsImre wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:17 Leporello wrote:
It's really sad that Terrans were leaning so hard on a unit that people react this way to that nerf -- a unit, btw, that is highly immobile and dormant.

Widow mines are still great and potentially hugely cost-effective.

If you think this Widow Mine nerf is going to hurt your gameplay -- then you didn't have any gameplay.


Nice one. Tell that to bogus/maru/polt...


Are they struggling in tvz now? Did I miss something?


not struggling but definitely doing worse (which is close to balance) than when Z were a moving armies into wm. So we get a balanced situation (except if Z players are better than everyone else) and then the nerf hammer hit a staple of a composition which is balanced, fun to play and decently interesting to watch (compared to mech vZ at least rofl) in order to spice it up? Z are just figuring out lategame vs 4M and you nerf it? that's the approach you like ? when D.Kim decides what's the fotm build ?
Zest fanboy.
ViTaLiTy17
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada16 Posts
November 12 2013 01:27 GMT
#186
On November 12 2013 08:28 GGDeMoN wrote:
terran seem to be taking the biggest hit here when they are already struggling the most at the moment :S


Yes because 8 out of 16 @ Blizzcon indicates a "struggle". Do people even think about what they post or simply just like to bitch and complain?
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-12 01:29:02
November 12 2013 01:28 GMT
#187
On November 12 2013 10:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:24 sAsImre wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think anyone who thinks the Tank buff is minor or incidental didn't play the test map, and definitely didn't watch any of the pros on it. Buffed tanks were tearing everything up badly.


especially mutas.


Yeah. Its too bad they didn't figure out a way to buff mech in such a way that it synergizes better with air to help a meching player deal with air armies...


oh yeah mech vZ. Good, let's play that. Oh wait akilon is out, newkirk too. so you get bad mech maps for the most boring composition possible which is turtling into mass raven.
Zest fanboy.
Aquila-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
516 Posts
November 12 2013 01:28 GMT
#188
Btw werent mines originally supposed to provide additional anti air for terran mech? What if they seperated mine ground from air attack and made it really good vs air, like it was prepatch maybe so we would see tanks vs banes and mines vs mutas.
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
November 12 2013 01:28 GMT
#189
On November 12 2013 10:27 ViTaLiTy17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 08:28 GGDeMoN wrote:
terran seem to be taking the biggest hit here when they are already struggling the most at the moment :S


Yes because 8 out of 16 @ Blizzcon indicates a "struggle". Do people even think about what they post or simply just like to bitch and complain?


Didn't you get the memo? Terran players are all inherently better, and if they aren't winning 100% of everything then clearly something is hugely wrong with the game.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
OneSpeed
Profile Joined June 2012
Norway47 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-12 01:32:06
November 12 2013 01:29 GMT
#190
The fastest way for Oracle to reach your base is 3:30 with the best proxy. Now imagine with speed/accel. buff.... probably gonna have 3:00 minute oracle at your mineral line :S
As if Protoss didn't have enough options...

Also, 8 of the top top Terrans at blizzcon couldn't make it to the finals... I don't see why they atleast give a signifigant buff to Terran beside that useless tank buff.
I only got one speed
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
November 12 2013 01:29 GMT
#191
On November 12 2013 10:27 ViTaLiTy17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 08:28 GGDeMoN wrote:
terran seem to be taking the biggest hit here when they are already struggling the most at the moment :S


Yes because 8 out of 16 @ Blizzcon indicates a "struggle". Do people even think about what they post or simply just like to bitch and complain?


you realize, that the qualification process involved a lot of points from the very beginning of HotS? Perhaps you should start thinking before posting.
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
November 12 2013 01:29 GMT
#192
On November 12 2013 10:27 ViTaLiTy17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 08:28 GGDeMoN wrote:
terran seem to be taking the biggest hit here when they are already struggling the most at the moment :S


Yes because 8 out of 16 @ Blizzcon indicates a "struggle". Do people even think about what they post or simply just like to bitch and complain?


most of those qualified from season 1 and 2. And none remained in the finals. You ever think before you type?
Amove for Aiur
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
November 12 2013 01:30 GMT
#193
On November 12 2013 10:29 OneSpeed wrote:
The fastet way for Oracle to reach your base is 3:50 with the best proxy. Now imagine with speed/accel. buff.... probably gonna have 3:00 minute oracle at your mineral line :S
As if Protoss didn't have enough options...

if it's proxied it'll be a few second at best. If it's not proxied it's not a real problem either.
Zest fanboy.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
November 12 2013 01:30 GMT
#194
On November 12 2013 10:21 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:19 TheDwf wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:12 Plansix wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:07 Faust852 wrote:
I'm watching some pro stream right now. Mine doesn't do shit lmao. Zerg just a clic with their army and it wins without any effort... GRATZ BLIZZARD.

Damn, if only they buffed another aoe unit for Terran.....wait....

Funny, I really wonder what you would say, as a Protoss player, if Blizzard was to reduce the AoE of Storm by 20% and add 1 damage to the attack of the Colossus. Surely you would be lecturing Protoss players complaining because look, there is a compensation elsewhere! Right?

I have never whined about a Protoss nerf. Ever.

When was the last protoss nerf? 2011 blink research time or something?
Neosteel Enthusiast
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
November 12 2013 01:31 GMT
#195
On November 12 2013 10:30 sAsImre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:29 OneSpeed wrote:
The fastet way for Oracle to reach your base is 3:50 with the best proxy. Now imagine with speed/accel. buff.... probably gonna have 3:00 minute oracle at your mineral line :S
As if Protoss didn't have enough options...

if it's proxied it'll be a few second at best. If it's not proxied it's not a real problem either.


the problem with the oracle won´t be the timing it hits, but its ability to kite and hit and run. I don´t think there will be a way for an oracle not to pay for itself.
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
November 12 2013 01:31 GMT
#196
The difference between a pre-buff and post-buff proxied Oracle reaching your base is gonna be like 10 seconds. The main difference will be that if spotted, its going to be a lot easier for Toss to pull the Oracle out without losing it.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 12 2013 01:31 GMT
#197
On November 12 2013 10:29 Snusmumriken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:27 ViTaLiTy17 wrote:
On November 12 2013 08:28 GGDeMoN wrote:
terran seem to be taking the biggest hit here when they are already struggling the most at the moment :S


Yes because 8 out of 16 @ Blizzcon indicates a "struggle". Do people even think about what they post or simply just like to bitch and complain?


most of those qualified from season 1 and 2. And none remained in the finals. You ever think before you type?

Well there can only be a max of 2 races in the finals, so someone is going to be left put.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
November 12 2013 01:31 GMT
#198
On November 12 2013 10:29 Snusmumriken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:27 ViTaLiTy17 wrote:
On November 12 2013 08:28 GGDeMoN wrote:
terran seem to be taking the biggest hit here when they are already struggling the most at the moment :S


Yes because 8 out of 16 @ Blizzcon indicates a "struggle". Do people even think about what they post or simply just like to bitch and complain?


most of those qualified from season 1 and 2. And none remained in the finals. You ever think before you type?


well the only match up a T coming from another region than kr won was a tvt. Dem T winning everything :D. Well at least they won the ez wcs region :p
Zest fanboy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 12 2013 01:33 GMT
#199
On November 12 2013 10:30 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 10:21 Plansix wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:19 TheDwf wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:12 Plansix wrote:
On November 12 2013 10:07 Faust852 wrote:
I'm watching some pro stream right now. Mine doesn't do shit lmao. Zerg just a clic with their army and it wins without any effort... GRATZ BLIZZARD.

Damn, if only they buffed another aoe unit for Terran.....wait....

Funny, I really wonder what you would say, as a Protoss player, if Blizzard was to reduce the AoE of Storm by 20% and add 1 damage to the attack of the Colossus. Surely you would be lecturing Protoss players complaining because look, there is a compensation elsewhere! Right?

I have never whined about a Protoss nerf. Ever.

When was the last protoss nerf? 2011 blink research time or something?

I think they nerfed blink for the 12th time during the hots beta.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-12 01:34:31
November 12 2013 01:34 GMT
#200
On November 12 2013 10:02 sAsImre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2013 09:59 Qikz wrote:
On November 12 2013 09:56 sAsImre wrote:
On November 12 2013 09:54 Qikz wrote:
On November 12 2013 09:46 sAsImre wrote:
On November 12 2013 09:44 Plansix wrote:
On November 12 2013 09:42 sAsImre wrote:
On November 12 2013 09:39 Plansix wrote:
On November 12 2013 09:36 r691175002 wrote:
So here are the balance numbers they dropped at Blizcon:

[image loading]

Who believes them?

Why would they lie now? What possible reason could that have that isn't some tin foil hat wearing nonsense?


the real question is: why would they break a core unit of a match up ?

Because it made the game stale and was overshadowing other aoe units? So they buffed one and toned down the other. It's not really rocket science to see what they are thinking. Just go and try the new tank, the guys on Meta(pro terrains included) said it was stronk.


it won't do shit against 30+ mutas. tanks are already strong but they allow the Z to set back because you cannot be as aggressive and they don't deal really well with regenerating muta. The mu wasn't getting staled either, zergs were just beginning to figure out how to play lategame vs 4M....


That's still stale since there's no variation from the Terran at all and the first 20 minutes of every single game are the same.


that's the case for every T mu.


Which is why hopefully they'll continue to do changes like these to make mech a viable option or make bio less dominant.

I'd rather watch a Terran trying something new and losing than I would watching the same game I've seen 1,000,000 times before like a current TvP. Bomber vs Rain or whoever it was where he tried mech and lost was one of the most exciting SC2 games there's been in 2 years in terms of Terran players.

Same goes for Flash vs Fantasy when they both meched on Akilon Wastes or the game where Flash BC rushed against I think Fantasy on Bel'shir when it was first around.

Blizzard need to get rid of old maps, bring in more variety in maps as well as playstyles or they might aswell get the gravestone out.


mech is 1.000 times more boring than bio since space control is so limited, so you just blob and make your deathball. Or spam planetaries and turrets while building your air deathball this time. As soon as the map gets too big it's almost unplayable vZ/T (and always bad vP). They would have to revamp every T unit to allow for variety, bio is just a better option in 99% of the situations. At least if they could make marine/tank the best option in 2mu we would get the best out of both worlds.


Why do people keep rehashing this incredibly weird point.

It's only like that because mech is currently so weak. If Tanks were better there'd be better space control. Also the thing about big maps is a completely farseity and bigger maps actually favour mech, but nobody will like to admit it despite me saying over and over again why its true.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 93 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #235
SteadfastSC170
iHatsuTV 9
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 170
Rex 111
Creator 63
MindelVK 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 12974
firebathero 3668
Shuttle 1230
Jaedong 904
Larva 596
Horang2 577
EffOrt 547
Mini 518
BeSt 495
Hyuk 316
[ Show more ]
hero 131
Last 128
Sharp 110
Soulkey 108
sorry 79
Hyun 72
Hm[arnc] 63
Mind 62
Shine 34
zelot 32
ZergMaN 26
ToSsGirL 25
Noble 23
910 23
Shinee 17
ZZZero.O 16
scan(afreeca) 14
Terrorterran 9
Bale 7
eros_byul 1
Stormgate
BeoMulf49
Dota 2
qojqva2307
Dendi126
canceldota75
Counter-Strike
byalli491
edward167
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King40
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor319
Other Games
B2W.Neo2229
singsing2079
Hui .279
crisheroes160
Sick149
XaKoH 113
KnowMe37
QueenE11
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 16
• Kozan
• Laughngamez YouTube
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 41
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3822
League of Legends
• Jankos3535
• TFBlade1288
• Stunt499
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
7m
QiaoGege vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Mihu vs TBD
Replay Cast
9h 7m
Replay Cast
18h 7m
RongYI Cup
20h 7m
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
21h 7m
BSL 21
1d
Replay Cast
1d 9h
Wardi Open
1d 23h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W5
OSC Championship Season 13
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3
Tektek Cup #1
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS4
Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.