EPTHotS Balance Update - November 11 - Page 8
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12053 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:46 sAsImre wrote: it won't do shit against 30+ mutas. tanks are already strong but they allow the Z to set back because you cannot be as aggressive and they don't deal really well with regenerating muta. The mu wasn't getting staled either, zergs were just beginning to figure out how to play lategame vs 4M.... That's still stale since there's no variation from the Terran at all and the first 20 minutes of every single game are the same. | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: What kind of buff would the Thor be helped most by, without unbalancing it? More health? More damage? Faster movement? The ability to be mass-produced by SCVs as if they were buildings like they could in the SC2 alpha? I'm all for keeping the Thor in the game in LotV, but mech really needs a more nimble deterrent to Mutas, and it needs to be a deterrent that is stuck on the ground, unlike Vikings. Cheaper less splash faster attack. Make it smaller as well. Oh wait goliath... | ||
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Rollora
2450 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:39 Snusmumriken wrote: Its a selfevident truth when the ranking system is made for just this to be the case. When you take a closer look and realize that terran is dwindling from low master up to the point of extinction in gm, you realize that these numbers dont say shit. aha, nice way to put it. Right, this just proves the ladder ranks for 50% winrate, nothing else. Not that every race needs the same effort and skill to win 50% | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:54 Qikz wrote: That's still stale since there's no variation from the Terran at all and the first 20 minutes of every single game are the same. that's the case for every T mu post 15min with the exception of sky T in TvT. | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
Just don't understand. Having mines and tanks together kind of makes up for the mine nerf, doesn't it? It just basically slows down the train and forces terran to be more positional and cautious. Don't know. We'll see, though. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On November 12 2013 08:41 awesomoecalypse wrote: They didn't, actually. sOs built Proxy oracles in basically every match with Bomber and it was shut down pretty much every time with no trouble on Bomber's part. Far from winning those games for sOs, they put him in a tough position he had to come back from. They looked like they were shut down but, they actualy did a fair amount of indirect damage. Oracles dont just hurt terran directly they greatly limit the build order options of terran, because if terran does not have 8 reines to fend off the orcle terran dies. The oracle also forces terran to stay in thier base and can force them to camp reines in the main. Its just like terran drops, its not just the fact that they kill probes that makes them strong its the fact that they force protss to invest into drop deffense and stay in thier base. It seems somewhat silly then to make a unit which can force this kind of response so early in the game stronger because it will force terran to build x# of reines before any possible orcle timings even more than it does. Orcle play is something that you dont realy react to because it comes out so early, so what this change realy does is enhance protos's ability to force terran to play certain styles. | ||
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Scootaloo SC2
United States122 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12053 Posts
Which is why hopefully they'll continue to do changes like these to make mech a viable option or make bio less dominant. I'd rather watch a Terran trying something new and losing than I would watching the same game I've seen 1,000,000 times before like a current TvP. Bomber vs Rain or whoever it was where he tried mech and lost was one of the most exciting SC2 games there's been in 2 years in terms of Terran players. Same goes for Flash vs Fantasy when they both meched on Akilon Wastes or the game where Flash BC rushed against I think Fantasy on Bel'shir when it was first around. Blizzard need to get rid of old maps, bring in more variety in maps as well as playstyles or they might aswell get the gravestone out. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:56 wUndertUnge wrote: Idra just said he doesn't think bio tank with tank buff will be enough to be viable vs. muta ling bling. Wasn't it effective in WoL? Plus there's no need to upgrade tanks for siege anymore. Just don't understand. Having mines and tanks together kind of makes up for the mine nerf, doesn't it? It just basically slows down the train and forces terran to be more positional and cautious. Don't know. We'll see, though. mutas gained regen. In WoL if you defended muta harass with turrets/marines/thors, then the next fight would be really good with a bunch of half life mutas. Z didn't make too many mutas and spend his gas elsewhere (he had way better gas units too ^^). The problem with mines + tanks + medivacs + upg (and tank attack is uber important) is that you can't produce enough of it on a 3base eco, your gas income is too small until you stop upgrading (then you get 4k gaz that you can't spend...). Maybe a solid macro build will emerge but mutas are still going to be a pain. | ||
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Incubus1993
Canada140 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:56 wUndertUnge wrote: Idra just said he doesn't think bio tank with tank buff will be enough to be viable vs. muta ling bling. Wasn't it effective in WoL? Plus there's no need to upgrade tanks for siege anymore. Just don't understand. Having mines and tanks together kind of makes up for the mine nerf, doesn't it? It just basically slows down the train and forces terran to be more positional and cautious. Don't know. We'll see, though. Even if idra said it lol. | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:59 sAsImre wrote: mutas gained regen. In WoL if you defended muta harass with turrets/marines/thors, then the next fight would be really good with a bunch of half life mutas. Z didn't make too many mutas and spend his gas elsewhere (he had way better gas units too ^^). The problem with mines + tanks + medivacs + upg (and tank attack is uber important) is that you can't produce enough of it on a 3base eco, your gas income is too small until you stop upgrading (then you get 4k gaz that you can't spend...). Maybe a solid macro build will emerge but mutas are still going to be a pain. Ah yes, forgot about regen. Whelp guys, there's only one thing to do: send these guys out: | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:59 Qikz wrote: Which is why hopefully they'll continue to do changes like these to make mech a viable option or make bio less dominant. I'd rather watch a Terran trying something new and losing than I would watching the same game I've seen 1,000,000 times before like a current TvP. Bomber vs Rain or whoever it was where he tried mech and lost was one of the most exciting SC2 games there's been in 2 years in terms of Terran players. Same goes for Flash vs Fantasy when they both meched on Akilon Wastes or the game where Flash BC rushed against I think Fantasy on Bel'shir when it was first around. Blizzard need to get rid of old maps, bring in more variety in maps as well as playstyles or they might aswell get the gravestone out. mech is 1.000 times more boring than bio since space control is so limited, so you just blob and make your deathball. Or spam planetaries and turrets while building your air deathball this time. As soon as the map gets too big it's almost unplayable vZ/T (and always bad vP). They would have to revamp every T unit to allow for variety, bio is just a better option in 99% of the situations. At least if they could make marine/tank the best option in 2mu we would get the best out of both worlds. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
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NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On November 12 2013 09:56 wUndertUnge wrote: Idra just said he doesn't think bio tank with tank buff will be enough to be viable vs. muta ling bling. Wasn't it effective in WoL? Plus there's no need to upgrade tanks for siege anymore. Just don't understand. Having mines and tanks together kind of makes up for the mine nerf, doesn't it? It just basically slows down the train and forces terran to be more positional and cautious. Don't know. We'll see, though. Handling all those units is pretty tough, would be hard to control properly in my opinion at least. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On November 12 2013 10:03 Hider wrote: I really think David Kim made a big mistake by not nerfing Mutalisks in this patch. Remember, Mutalisks only got regenration due to the introduction of Widow Mines. Now that the latter is being nerfed, it makes sense to also nerf Mutalisks. I think the only viable style now may just be Turtle Raven Mech vs zerg. all inish hellbats build are really good, especially if the meta still favor spending your gas in mutalisk instead of banelings. 11/11 is still good too :D | ||
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Stolker
United States96 Posts
I wish they would make changes, so players would use new units more often, like swarmhost or tempest. and why is the carrier still in the game? nobody uses them. | ||
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