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On January 16 2014 04:10 fastluck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 02:08 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:
I also wanted to add, as awful and disgusting as Jiwon's betrayals were, I can understand his justification of "I wanted to help Yooyoung in the DM b/c she's the one that did the most for our team during the MM" This sort of thing has happened quite a bit before, I'm ok with the reason why he wanted to help Yooyoung (She definitely is the main reason the 5man group was able to win...she did all the leg work basically) but still, the way he went about helping her was just stupid and ugly.
Edit: I was wondering what kind of negative impact his actions have had on the Korean President...since they're related, wouldn't him acting this way show negatively for the President? Would the average Korean look badly at the President b/c of something his nephew did/said? He could have just refused to assist Doohee, and played openly on Yooyoung's side, instead of lying to Doohee and promising to help him before betraying him all over again again, after just having apologized for stealing the ID keeping him out of the main match.
that's what i meant when i said "the way he went about helping her was stupid and ugly". He should have just been up front with Doohee about not helping him. I think if he was, the backlash of viewers against him would have probably been a lot less
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Long wall of text, so I'll split it up in parts.
On January 16 2014 05:00 jubil wrote:
s2e6 -
I feel badly for Doohee, I really do. It really sucks that he ended up losing the main match and death match so easily. But there were a few things he could have tried. He could have been more threatening to the broadcaster alliance (since they definitely had the ID, Yohwan and Jinho would have given it back since they're allied) - "If you don't give back my ID, I will definitely pick one of you for the deathmatch; if you give it back no hard feelings." He could have played the deathmatch safer - he was already betrayed and manhandled by the broadcaster alliance, so why continue trusting one of them? Also, giving up without even defending in the deathmatch was a tiny bit premature. Sure, Yooyoung could probably pick up at least one point over 4 rounds, but you might as well try and go down fighting. I do understand that he was in a very difficult mental state at the time, so I'm not judging him at all, just suggesting that he did in fact have options.
He trusted Jiwon because Jiwon phoned him earlier (before the recording) saying he would support him this episode. That's why Doohee trusted he would eventually help him out, next to the apologies Jiwon made about stealing his ID. Doohee couldn't fathom he would be betrayed once more.
Secondly, Doohee couldn't win the DM anymore. They have four players to cross the line in four rounds. But Doohee's team could only press the red button thrice. Thus if you have one person cross over each round, you will always end up with one point. Which wins you the match. This is what Doohee explained to the producers, and why he forfeited.
As for all the hate towards Yooyoung, Jiwon, and Sangmin.... what in the world do you people expect? When you agree to sign up for a game like the Genius, you ought to be playing to win, the entire show's point is to have underhanded dealings, plays, and counterplays. The broadcasters are just playing to their personal strengths - team alliance plays; compared to Yohwan and Jinho's individual ability. "Ugly victories and beautiful defeats." Are you the same people that just complain and ragequit on ladder about cheese plays instead of accepting that people do it, scouting it, and learning how to beat it? You can't blame the person that uses something cheesy like 3x bunker rushes to win tournament games. You just lament for the opponent that was unable to overcome it - it was Doohee's own mistake that put him in that situation. Let's break the other team's decisions down a bit.
There's something called sportsmanship, you know? Betraying, counterplays and what not are indeed fine in this game, and you don't hear anyone complaining about those. We're complaining about proper bullying, and taking players out of the entire game. That's no longer a game, especially not one that wants to call itself The Genius. If you've watched every episode of season one and two, you should be able to see that last episode was distinctly different than the previous ones in regards to betrayal.
Why steal the ID? It will practically guarantee the alliance victory. Controlling 6 hands out of 8 will let you not only win, but also certainly make someone from the rival alliance the loser.
That's no longer playing the game. So why would you watch this show at all, and should we call it a Genius show if it promotes stealing?
Why did Sangmin hand over the fake token of immortality? (instead of just saying, "I'm sorry Doohee, you're on your own in the deathmatch") It gives the possibility of sending 2 of the rival alliance to the deathmatch; protecting your alliance. Giving the real one opens the possibility of having 2 of your own alliance in the deathmatch even though your team won the main match.
Sangmin is rather the icing on the cake. If that happened without all the rest that happened in this episode, I'm sure everyone would've applauded the action. Now.. not so much.
Why did Jiwon betray Doohee in the deathmatch? As the voiceover at the end said very clearly, it was less a betrayal of Doohee than Jiwon simply choosing Yooyoung to help instead. So here is the breakdown:
Jiwon presses red (betrays Doohee) - Doohee (probably) loses immediately, Yooyoung is very grateful to have such a faithful and effective ally, Jiwon takes flak on online message boards. (Broadcasters vs non is now 5v2, very good odds)
Jiwon presses green (betrays Yooyoung) - Yooyoung is very weak but still alive. If she wins anyway, she now has many garnets and resents Jiwon. If Doohee closes it out, he may or may not be very grateful ("that evens us up from you taking my ID"). Jiwon probably still takes a little flak on online message boards. In any case, Jiwon is probably kicked out of the broadcaster alliance. (Broadcasters vs non is now either 4v3 or 3v4; and even then the non-broadcasters are not the most natural of allies)
Although option #2 could have succeeded, clearly the safest option is #1.
That doesn't help his case in any way. He simply could've said, sorry Doohee, I won't be helping. I'll be open about this because I've betrayed you more than enough this episode. Instead, he apologizes for stealing Doohee's ID and says he'll help Doohee because he's feeling remorse, then a moment later he betrays Doohee again.
If you decide that in order to achieve your goals it is necessary to betray or eliminate someone, you can't take half measures, you need to destroy them completely so they can't rise up and take their revenge. Once you've made your bed, you have to lie in it. The moment that Yooyoung and Jiwon took the ID, their fates, and Doohee's, were sealed.
Rubbish. Season one had its fair share of betrayals, which in later episodes became teams.
This episode, my biggest disappointment/anger was not with Sangmin, Yooyoung, or Jiwon, but with Yohwan. Don't get me wrong, I think it's really lame that the broadcasters are teaming up and crushing the others so badly, and I really want Yellow and Boxer to go far and win, but you can't blame the broadcasters for playing to win. Who you can blame is Yohwan, for GIVING AWAY the safe (and token) to Sangmin, and GIVING AWAY the main match win to the broadcaster alliance, without so much as a whimper. He didn't even try to cut a deal, which I could have understood, since 3v5 they were probably going to lose anyway ("I'll help you win if you save me from deathmatch"), he just straightforwardly gave them the victory. He almost made it up by almost winning the main match anyway, but again Jiwon chose the safer path and you can't blame him for that.
He was about to share the immortality token. I would say that's a good play to make if you've got no clue on how to open the safe. Yet, he was betrayed. Blame his naivity, but to actually say he's your biggest focus of anger/disappointment has to be an overstatement or you haven't been watching the same episode as the rest of us. That isn't to say I'm not a little disappointed in Boxer in Season 2 either.
Remember, even if the broadcasters stick around long enough to knock off both Jinho and Yohwan, there's still 5 of them left to duke it out between themselves, so you'll get your chance to see them betray each other, surely.
Yay... only two more episodes of boring alliance plays that disregard the game itself!
Anyway, point being; because both the MM and DM are popularity/alliance contests, you can be pretty much out before you've even arrived at the venue. Not having a chance to even play the MM makes it most definately impossible to wiggle your way out of being thrown out.
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On January 16 2014 05:00 jubil wrote:
s2e6 -
Remember, even if the broadcasters stick around long enough to knock off both Jinho and Yohwan, there's still 5 of them left to duke it out between themselves, so you'll get your chance to see them betray each other, surely.
But at this point the only character I care about is Yellow. I liked a lot of the people that have been muscled out, and I used to like boxer, but the lack of any semblance of strategy from the other players (including Boxer), makes it really boring for me. Note I'm not counting "everyone gank up on X person" as strategy.
If yellow is eliminated I will probably stop watching unless Boxer somehow steps it up. Maybe I'll keep watching in the hope that Sangmin betrays them all horribly and wins it all himself. The casters are really boring imo, and pretty brutally clique-like
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Boxer is garnering a lot of hate, but i think he will begin to shine if the games do indeed become more individually focused, he has been a little dissapointing so far but he did handle himself well in the deathmatch (it was a lucky deathmatch for him to get to be honest) but i dont doubt at all his ability to think of great strategies and ways to win games. His weakness seems to me to be his inability to deal with other people well.
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BoxeR played this game hard and it was fun to see, that's the type of season one play I enjoyed. Individuals going out there and trying to compete in the game and make some deals and see what they can pull off! But although it was fun to see him active, giving away the bomb was a big mistake. People say this main match was bad because the big alliance could do what they wanted, but that's not really true, as they needed cards from the smaller alliance if they wanted to get a monopoly... and BoxeR obliged them. I wonder, did he think he could complete his wood monopoly faster than the broadcasters could pool their bombs together? Maybe he was just trying to avoid antagonizing them by holding out. When he later made his offer to Jiwon, that was a good play also, but again, Jiwon had the same immunity deal within his own alliance, so there was no hope in it working out. It's funny that it's the broadcaster alliance that is insular and is forcing the other people out of the game, even while they freak out over Jinho and Doohee and Yohwan having dinner. The big alliance is operating too tightly which is short-circuiting the fun of the games. I think this is for two reasons:
1) The threat of Jinho, and how hard Sangmin is pushing that threat. Episode starts, Sangmin says: we must eliminate Jinho, nobody can beat him. In the token of immortality hunt, Sangmin screws Boxer: because he wants to use the token to send him against Jinho. With his token of immortality play, Sangmin gives the fake to Doohee: in an attempt to get him to play his DM against Jinho! The fear is large. As long as Jinho is there, Sangmin will be operating with that fear and spreading that fear to the other players. If Jinho was gone, maybe the alliance would not be so tight and maybe Sangmin would not have ripped off BoxeR.
2) The personalities of the broadcasters. Hongchul's forcefully manic persona unites everyone in that alliance. Yooyoung I think does the same as well but in a more quiet, intense way. She's really scary. Jiwon has shown absolutely nothing all show and seems quite useless, but loyal. Hanging onto that alliance is all he has.
Hopefully after this last episode, games get more individual and Hongchul and the older politician float more freely around out of guilt, but it's not that certain.
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On January 16 2014 06:59 fastluck wrote:
If Jinho was gone, maybe the alliance would not be so tight and maybe Sangmin would not have ripped off BoxeR.
Jinho is the only one that thinks out of the box and tries to bring a fresh air to the games. Without him, alliances would have formed anyway and the games would become even blatantly more boring.
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So mostly ppl give up on BoxeR already? I mean his performance . .
Any1 still believe in BoxeR? 
I still did . . I dont noe why. I did feel abit die out sometimes, after all these year, but I still believe BoxeR is brilliant somehow.
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As much as I greatly appreciate all the work Clefairy does in bringing subs to us, I can't bring myself to watch s2e6 after reading all the spoilers cause I know I would just get really frustrated. While the broadcaster alliance sucks the fun out of things, I blame the producers equally for choosing games (particularly deathmatches) where brute force via numbers is the easiest path to victory.
One can be a genius in subterfuge, playing politics and demonstrating charisma, but I can't say I've seen much of that in season 2 so far. I liked to watch the Genius for light-hearted entertainment and eureka moments. No need to watch bullying and backstabbing on TV when there's plenty of that in real life already.
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On January 16 2014 12:15 Sharkies wrote:
As much as I greatly appreciate all the work Clefairy does in bringing subs to us, I can't bring myself to watch s2e6 after reading all the spoilers cause I know I would just get really frustrated. While the broadcaster alliance sucks the fun out of things, I blame the producers equally for choosing games (particularly deathmatches) where brute force via numbers is the easiest path to victory.
One can be a genius in subterfuge, playing politics and demonstrating charisma, but I can't say I've seen much of that in season 2 so far. I liked to watch the Genius for light-hearted entertainment and eureka moments. No need to watch bullying and backstabbing on TV when there's plenty of that in real life already.
This
Season 2 is swaying waaaay too much on the alliance/betraying/politic side of things. I mean sure, you can argue being a true genius requires some of those, but the show is making it seem like it solely relies on those attributes; There is literally nothing ANYONE, be it true genius like Einstein or a politically skilled person like Obama, can do when the majority wants you out when the games/deathmatches are mostly based on alliance/betrayals.
In contrast, Season 1 requires literally both personal charisma AND individual skills to succeed. It was pretty fun watching different people using different strategy, and ultimately, the person with the strongest individual skills win out.
On a side note, I don't get why Dohee forfeited? I mean yea, like someone said, if the other team only crosses the line one at a time, then Dohee wont be able to press red 4 times; BUT you have to remember Boxer is on Dohee's side, so can't he technically mess it up once for the other side? I mean sure it's still a small chance as they would have to guess, but still better than forfeiting.
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While I agree that the Token of immortality should be in the game as it adds quite abit of fun finding it, I don't think that it should do what it does; at the current state, it is literally too powerful.
I mean I can already imagine what's going to happen in the next game (or one of the next few): The "alliance" will try to make Boxer/Yellow lose, then whoever they pick, they will use the token and pick the remainder of Boxer/Yellow to force them to fight in a death match. OR if one of the alliance loses, they will pick Boxer/Yellow and use the token on himself to pick the remainder of boxer/yellow.
The ONLY way out is for Boxer/Yellow to get first, and it seems hard when its 2 vs 5
So it's pretty lame, not really looking forward to watch
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 16 2014 15:30 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 12:15 Sharkies wrote:
As much as I greatly appreciate all the work Clefairy does in bringing subs to us, I can't bring myself to watch s2e6 after reading all the spoilers cause I know I would just get really frustrated. While the broadcaster alliance sucks the fun out of things, I blame the producers equally for choosing games (particularly deathmatches) where brute force via numbers is the easiest path to victory.
One can be a genius in subterfuge, playing politics and demonstrating charisma, but I can't say I've seen much of that in season 2 so far. I liked to watch the Genius for light-hearted entertainment and eureka moments. No need to watch bullying and backstabbing on TV when there's plenty of that in real life already. This Season 2 is swaying waaaay too much on the alliance/betraying/politic side of things. I mean sure, you can argue being a true genius requires some of those, but the show is making it seem like it solely relies on those attributes; There is literally nothing ANYONE, be it true genius like Einstein or a politically skilled person like Obama, can do when the majority wants you out when the games/deathmatches are mostly based on alliance/betrayals. In contrast, Season 1 requires literally both personal charisma AND individual skills to succeed. It was pretty fun watching different people using different strategy, and ultimately, the person with the strongest individual skills win out. On a side note, I don't get why Dohee forfeited? I mean yea, like someone said, if the other team only crosses the line one at a time, then Dohee wont be able to press red 4 times; BUT you have to remember Boxer is on Dohee's side, so can't he technically mess it up once for the other side? I mean sure it's still a small chance as they would have to guess, but still better than forfeiting. I think even further with boxer giving the person in the chair information actively there shouldn't be a problem. He just never crosses and 'coughs' whenever another team member does. If no one crosses no points can be gained with an informed green press. If one person crosses he instructs a red press and no points are gained. If multiple people cross it just becomes even easier. However this does hit a stump when it comes to Hongchul/the senators time to sit in the chair as they have to chose their allegiance. Hongchul did say that he would support Dohee but we have heard that before. In all honesty he probably should've played on but he was really a broken man.
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Genius producers officially apologized for the ID card theft and say its all their fault. Nothing important in the article except they say they will be more strict on rules like theft.
source: http://news.nate.com/view/20140116n21865
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This season lacks someone like Kyungran to tone down some of those broadcasters betrayals and attics. That's why Sangmin is running rampant like nothing but victory matters. I'm actually disappointed that JungHyun wouldn't take this role. He's just at his corner, probably lowering his presence to not stand out much as a threat. He should step up a bit.
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After watching, in the whole episode, I really couldnt bear to watch the whole episode. D:
Reallyreallyreally disgusted by yooyoung.
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On January 16 2014 15:30 Fubi wrote:
On a side note, I don't get why Dohee forfeited? I mean yea, like someone said, if the other team only crosses the line one at a time, then Dohee wont be able to press red 4 times; BUT you have to remember Boxer is on Dohee's side, so can't he technically mess it up once for the other side? I mean sure it's still a small chance as they would have to guess, but still better than forfeiting.
There's apparently a story going around on Naver, it was (allegedly) originally posted by someone who claimed to be a staff member on the genius show. It says that after jiwon betrayed them and hit red, Dohee was too shocked to keep playing, and just collapsed in a corner and cried for a while. He then told the pd's that he wasn't able to play anymore, and that he believed there was no realistic chance of him winning anyway so he wanted to just forfeit. It was just one of the things which got edited out by the production team as part of the "protecting the broadcasters image/reducing backlash" they were talking about at the press conference.
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On January 16 2014 19:54 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 15:30 Fubi wrote:
On a side note, I don't get why Dohee forfeited? I mean yea, like someone said, if the other team only crosses the line one at a time, then Dohee wont be able to press red 4 times; BUT you have to remember Boxer is on Dohee's side, so can't he technically mess it up once for the other side? I mean sure it's still a small chance as they would have to guess, but still better than forfeiting. There's apparently a story going around on Naver, it was (allegedly) originally posted by someone who claimed to be a staff member on the genius show. It says that after jiwon betrayed them and hit red, Dohee was too shocked to keep playing, and just collapsed in a corner and cried for a while. He then told the pd's that he wasn't able to play anymore, and that he believed there was no realistic chance of him winning anyway so he wanted to just forfeit. It was just one of the things which got edited out by the production team as part of the "protecting the broadcasters image/reducing backlash" they were talking about at the press conference.
There's literally zero chance for him to win. Well, barring a serious mistake from Yooyoung. Sending over one person per round is a certain win.
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On January 16 2014 20:31 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 19:54 killerdog wrote:On January 16 2014 15:30 Fubi wrote:
On a side note, I don't get why Dohee forfeited? I mean yea, like someone said, if the other team only crosses the line one at a time, then Dohee wont be able to press red 4 times; BUT you have to remember Boxer is on Dohee's side, so can't he technically mess it up once for the other side? I mean sure it's still a small chance as they would have to guess, but still better than forfeiting. There's apparently a story going around on Naver, it was (allegedly) originally posted by someone who claimed to be a staff member on the genius show. It says that after jiwon betrayed them and hit red, Dohee was too shocked to keep playing, and just collapsed in a corner and cried for a while. He then told the pd's that he wasn't able to play anymore, and that he believed there was no realistic chance of him winning anyway so he wanted to just forfeit. It was just one of the things which got edited out by the production team as part of the "protecting the broadcasters image/reducing backlash" they were talking about at the press conference. There's literally zero chance for him to win. Well, barring a serious mistake from Yooyoung. Sending over one person per round is a certain win.
+ Show Spoiler +
Actually, there is still a really slim chance since Boxer is on the team.
Rightfully, Yooyoung will send one person across the line in each round and if everything works out, Doohee's team can only defend 3 times and lose the last round when the last person cross over. However, Boxer is on Doohee's team. He can just cross over when it is NOT his turn to do so. That means 2 person get red-lighted in one round and there's 2 more red lights saved for the last 2 person.
But judging from his mental state at that time, I think it's rather hard for him to want to go through the DM and attempt to win. D=
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On January 16 2014 15:53 UnKooL wrote:Genius producers officially apologized for the ID card theft and say its all their fault. Nothing important in the article except they say they will be more strict on rules like theft. source: http://news.nate.com/view/20140116n21865
Thanks for the news. Nice to hear they're acknowledging the issue.
On January 16 2014 08:59 XiaoJoyce- wrote:So mostly ppl give up on BoxeR already? I mean his performance . . Any1 still believe in BoxeR? I still did . . I dont noe why. I did feel abit die out sometimes, after all these year, but I still believe BoxeR is brilliant somehow.
I almost gave up on him until + Show Spoiler +they showed that he's been trying hard at getting the token of immortality
It's disappointing that the broadcasters are so tightly knitted together. There are pictures of season 1 contestants drinking together even after losing to each other but I don't think that'll happen this time. Perhaps naive contestants + 2 or 3 on-screen veterans would make a better storyline combination like in S1.
Ah, I realized I've been referring to S1 too much... what has this show become...
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On January 16 2014 20:56 yogiwizard wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 20:31 Shival wrote:On January 16 2014 19:54 killerdog wrote:On January 16 2014 15:30 Fubi wrote:
On a side note, I don't get why Dohee forfeited? I mean yea, like someone said, if the other team only crosses the line one at a time, then Dohee wont be able to press red 4 times; BUT you have to remember Boxer is on Dohee's side, so can't he technically mess it up once for the other side? I mean sure it's still a small chance as they would have to guess, but still better than forfeiting. There's apparently a story going around on Naver, it was (allegedly) originally posted by someone who claimed to be a staff member on the genius show. It says that after jiwon betrayed them and hit red, Dohee was too shocked to keep playing, and just collapsed in a corner and cried for a while. He then told the pd's that he wasn't able to play anymore, and that he believed there was no realistic chance of him winning anyway so he wanted to just forfeit. It was just one of the things which got edited out by the production team as part of the "protecting the broadcasters image/reducing backlash" they were talking about at the press conference. There's literally zero chance for him to win. Well, barring a serious mistake from Yooyoung. Sending over one person per round is a certain win. + Show Spoiler +
Actually, there is still a really slim chance since Boxer is on the team.
Rightfully, Yooyoung will send one person across the line in each round and if everything works out, Doohee's team can only defend 3 times and lose the last round when the last person cross over. However, Boxer is on Doohee's team. He can just cross over when it is NOT his turn to do so. That means 2 person get red-lighted in one round and there's 2 more red lights saved for the last 2 person.
But judging from his mental state at that time, I think it's rather hard for him to want to go through the DM and attempt to win. D=
+ Show Spoiler +I wouldn't put it past them to actually push Boxer into crossing over at the first round. But yeah, point made.
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On January 16 2014 21:35 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 20:56 yogiwizard wrote:On January 16 2014 20:31 Shival wrote:On January 16 2014 19:54 killerdog wrote:On January 16 2014 15:30 Fubi wrote:
On a side note, I don't get why Dohee forfeited? I mean yea, like someone said, if the other team only crosses the line one at a time, then Dohee wont be able to press red 4 times; BUT you have to remember Boxer is on Dohee's side, so can't he technically mess it up once for the other side? I mean sure it's still a small chance as they would have to guess, but still better than forfeiting. There's apparently a story going around on Naver, it was (allegedly) originally posted by someone who claimed to be a staff member on the genius show. It says that after jiwon betrayed them and hit red, Dohee was too shocked to keep playing, and just collapsed in a corner and cried for a while. He then told the pd's that he wasn't able to play anymore, and that he believed there was no realistic chance of him winning anyway so he wanted to just forfeit. It was just one of the things which got edited out by the production team as part of the "protecting the broadcasters image/reducing backlash" they were talking about at the press conference. There's literally zero chance for him to win. Well, barring a serious mistake from Yooyoung. Sending over one person per round is a certain win. + Show Spoiler +
Actually, there is still a really slim chance since Boxer is on the team.
Rightfully, Yooyoung will send one person across the line in each round and if everything works out, Doohee's team can only defend 3 times and lose the last round when the last person cross over. However, Boxer is on Doohee's team. He can just cross over when it is NOT his turn to do so. That means 2 person get red-lighted in one round and there's 2 more red lights saved for the last 2 person.
But judging from his mental state at that time, I think it's rather hard for him to want to go through the DM and attempt to win. D=
+ Show Spoiler +I wouldn't put it past them to actually push Boxer into crossing over at the first round. But yeah, point made.
+ Show Spoiler +Boxer can then agree, but instead chooses not to cross over in that round. In the end, YooYoung's team will be at 0 points and there's still 3 red lights left for the remaining 3 rounds.
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EPT
