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On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help.
Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste.
It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics...
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On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics...
I understand your point. Maybe I was to vague. What I meant was that we should look at how it started with BW in Korea and then adjust that to SC 2. Weren't there like local PC Bangs who organized tournaments first? Someone had to sponsor them and we can pretty much assume Blizz had nothing to do with it (or any major company for that matter - that came later). For me it looks like people look at SC2 scene and say "well its 2013 in here and in Korea so we should all be equal duh" but for me Westerners should realize that our scene is still in 1999 where people still play in space suits with lots of smoke, where players like NaDa start by playing in PC Bang tourneys and going around te country playing local gigs. When we look at Korea it's like we owned a time machine and looked forward in the future. Why not capitalize on all that history?
Sorry for the wall of text ;P
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On August 22 2013 17:06 QuixoticO wrote:
We always want eSports to be more like real sports but yet people continue coming with backward ideas like this. Imagine if Beckham wasn't allowed to play for the Los Angelas Galaxy or Messi for Barcelona because people didn't want these star players to play in their countries. Because it would make it harder for the regions own players to compete on that level.
You only get on their level by trying to become as good as them. And not making your own league easier for the purpose of making easy money and sustainability of weaker players. It's harsh but it's the truth in any "real" sport too.
This isn't logical in the WCS. The playing field there is leveled by the fact that soccer is a team game. The other teams can acquire players from around the world in the same way Barcelona could.
In SC2 it's an individual game. You can't buy Mvp to play all your games for you in the WCS. The individual player who is at an inherent disadvantage because of the infrastructure and culture in Korea can't get the same practice as a Korean. There needs to be a region lock of some kind to actually promote player growth.
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Current WCS system is the result of Blizzard listening to the wrong crowd: whiners
Their chief complaint has been:
1) The big tournament (GSL) is in Korea, and
2) it is an offline event over a period of several months.
So what does Blizzard do? They creat 2 GSL-level (in terms of WCS points and prize money) tournaments for NA and EU to be held online with offline finals, (you can't have continent level (NA/EU) offline only tournaments over several month period, unlike ones at national level (Korea)) structured over a year with combined season finals and a big tournament at the end of the year. Now, without going in much detail, let's just remember that in the process of establishing current WCS system, Blizzard has destroyed existing esports scene across the globe. Where could possibly go wrong with that, right?
So Blizzard went all-in with 2013 WCS and the result has been catastrophic. They tried to be MVP in game 7, failed to even become BitByBit, ended up as ActionJesuz, in a manner of speaking. It's not like there has been a surprise in esports scene: Koreans winning WCS NA/EU and season finals, people wanting "local representative" for each WCS region (however justified they may be), and last but not least, declining KR scene. Even artosis could've made these predictions and he still would've been right.
Speaking of declining KR scene, did you know that neither OGN nor GomTV would be broadcasting WCS season 2 final for Korean audience? Instead there will be a "community stream." Sure, dedicated fans would surely still turn up to watch. It's not like WCS needs more exposure in Korea or added production value, right? In lieu of WCS, Koreans will have OGN's LoL broadcast and GomTV's Dota2/WoT broadcast to watch this weekend. (actually you could watch them back-to-back-ish with WCS since there will be only about an hour or so overlap, if either of them actually bothered to broadcast WCS)
Based on how quickly Blizzard has addressed issues in the past, its about time they noticed how much they screwed up. However, I wouldn't hold my breath until I hear that someone got the axe for decisions he made or something.
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On August 22 2013 16:35 FreedomSC2 wrote:
CON's to Region Lock:
Player lose the chance to practice vs top level talent from around the world. Slowing growth.
Aren't you forgetting that there is a global finals? Thus, the best players from EU and NA would get the chance to play the other best players in the world even if the regions are locked.
Many Koreans do not practice on the EU and NA ladders, despite playing in WCS EU or AM. So I don't think they are losing a chance to practice. Surely, you don't mean that WCS itself gives practice, right? Because playing a couple of Bo3's and getting smashed is not practice, that is competition. In competition, you (should) do whatever gives you the best chance to win, while in practice, you refine and tweak the strategies you plan to do in competition by drilling them and trying to new things.
Playing Koreans in WCS NA is not the place to refine and tweak the strategies.
That whole line of thinking, that people need to play Koreans in regional WCS games or they won't get better is flawed. Stephano is a living example of how wrong it is, he practiced on the EU ladder, then went to smash a bunch Koreans at IPL.
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On August 22 2013 17:06 QuixoticO wrote:
We always want eSports to be more like real sports but yet people continue coming with backward ideas like this. Imagine if Beckham wasn't allowed to play for the Los Angelas Galaxy or Messi for Barcelona because people didn't want these star players to play in their countries. Because it would make it harder for the regions own players to compete on that level.
You only get on their level by trying to become as good as them. And not making your own league easier for the purpose of making easy money and sustainability of weaker players. It's harsh but it's the truth in any "real" sport too.
It's not a fair analogy. It's like saying "all of EPL has major incentive to go play for MLS, which will then utterly trash the other MLS teams.
It's fine they go elsewhere because in the case of both of those players there are natural incentives. Ie Galaxy wanted marketing capacity, and Europe is all one football community, and in the world football system, as has evolved naturally over time Barcelona pays better and provides better opportunities. I just feel like this would be like all the best EPL players hopping to MLS because it FIFA said "there shall be equal pay for all leagues, pay shall be success oriented on a personal level."
Incentives become perverse.
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Perhaps something way more "hybrid"? I mean, in the yearly finals at Blizzcon 2014 (assuming is the same as 2013) you pick the best 16 players from the WCS rankings, AND you pick 16 players winning local WCS National tournaments, sorta 2012. How you choose the 16 Nations? You can have a nation rankings to pick them, like UEFA does with its coefficients to determine nation slots for their cups. You can also have like 12 nations, best 4 of them granting 2 players instead of one, or something like that.
You could have 3 season finals with the best 16 players from all over the world (even though 14 of them are koreans, but I guess that's kind of what it should be), and you could also have national tournaments helping improve local scenes.
(assuming Blizzard wants to pay to see eSports growing allover the world...)
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On August 22 2013 23:42 NHY wrote:
Current WCS system is the result of Blizzard listening to the wrong crowd: whiners
Their chief complaint has been:
1) The big tournament (GSL) is in Korea, and
2) it is an offline event over a period of several months.
So what does Blizzard do? They creat 2 GSL-level (in terms of WCS points and prize money) tournaments for NA and EU to be held online with offline finals, (you can't have continent level (NA/EU) offline only tournaments over several month period, unlike ones at national level (Korea)) structured over a year with combined season finals and a big tournament at the end of the year. Now, without going in much detail, let's just remember that in the process of establishing current WCS system, Blizzard has destroyed existing esports scene across the globe. Where could possibly go wrong with that, right?
So Blizzard went all-in with 2013 WCS and the result has been catastrophic. They tried to be MVP in game 7, failed to even become BitByBit, ended up as ActionJesuz, in a manner of speaking. It's not like there has been a surprise in esports scene: Koreans winning WCS NA/EU and season finals, people wanting "local representative" for each WCS region (however justified they may be), and last but not least, declining KR scene. Even artosis could've made these predictions and he still would've been right.
Speaking of declining KR scene, did you know that neither OGN nor GomTV would be broadcasting WCS season 2 final for Korean audience? Instead there will be a "community stream." Sure, dedicated fans would surely still turn up to watch. It's not like WCS needs more exposure in Korea or added production value, right? In lieu of WCS, Koreans will have OGN's LoL broadcast and GomTV's Dota2/WoT broadcast to watch this weekend. (actually you could watch them back-to-back-ish with WCS since there will be only about an hour or so overlap, if either of them actually bothered to broadcast WCS)
Based on how quickly Blizzard has addressed issues in the past, its about time they noticed how much they screwed up. However, I wouldn't hold my breath until I hear that someone got the axe for decisions he made or something.
This is certainly odd that gom and ogn will not broadcast live since both kepsa and esl have important players in the finals.I thought it would be in their own interest to promote their own players.So a lol and dota2 rebroacast brings more viewers than sc2 final?Very weird indeed if it is true,but since it is the korean market they probably care more about osl and gsl than any other foreign competition anyway
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 23 2013 00:06 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 23:42 NHY wrote:
Current WCS system is the result of Blizzard listening to the wrong crowd: whiners
Their chief complaint has been:
1) The big tournament (GSL) is in Korea, and
2) it is an offline event over a period of several months.
So what does Blizzard do? They creat 2 GSL-level (in terms of WCS points and prize money) tournaments for NA and EU to be held online with offline finals, (you can't have continent level (NA/EU) offline only tournaments over several month period, unlike ones at national level (Korea)) structured over a year with combined season finals and a big tournament at the end of the year. Now, without going in much detail, let's just remember that in the process of establishing current WCS system, Blizzard has destroyed existing esports scene across the globe. Where could possibly go wrong with that, right?
So Blizzard went all-in with 2013 WCS and the result has been catastrophic. They tried to be MVP in game 7, failed to even become BitByBit, ended up as ActionJesuz, in a manner of speaking. It's not like there has been a surprise in esports scene: Koreans winning WCS NA/EU and season finals, people wanting "local representative" for each WCS region (however justified they may be), and last but not least, declining KR scene. Even artosis could've made these predictions and he still would've been right.
Speaking of declining KR scene, did you know that neither OGN nor GomTV would be broadcasting WCS season 2 final for Korean audience? Instead there will be a "community stream." Sure, dedicated fans would surely still turn up to watch. It's not like WCS needs more exposure in Korea or added production value, right? In lieu of WCS, Koreans will have OGN's LoL broadcast and GomTV's Dota2/WoT broadcast to watch this weekend. (actually you could watch them back-to-back-ish with WCS since there will be only about an hour or so overlap, if either of them actually bothered to broadcast WCS)
Based on how quickly Blizzard has addressed issues in the past, its about time they noticed how much they screwed up. However, I wouldn't hold my breath until I hear that someone got the axe for decisions he made or something. This is certainly odd that gom and ogn will not broadcast live since both kespa,and esl have important players in the finals.I thought it would be in their own interest to promote their own players.So a lol and dota2 rebroacast brings more viewers than sc2 final?Very weird indeed if it is true,but since it is the korean market they probably care more about osl and gsl than any other foreign competition anyway
It is live broadcast for gomtv and ogn, they are not MLG's twitch :D. And yes, they care more about events actually played in Korea for obvious reasons (not to mention, that these groups will go until well over 2 AM for Korea).
And yes, i am all for someone actually investing money into trying to grow foreign SC2 scene, but there is 1 reason it won't happen: nobody with power to help it, cares about it. And trying to turn WCS into attempt to do it won't end well.
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On August 23 2013 00:15 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:06 theking1 wrote:On August 22 2013 23:42 NHY wrote:
Current WCS system is the result of Blizzard listening to the wrong crowd: whiners
Their chief complaint has been:
1) The big tournament (GSL) is in Korea, and
2) it is an offline event over a period of several months.
So what does Blizzard do? They creat 2 GSL-level (in terms of WCS points and prize money) tournaments for NA and EU to be held online with offline finals, (you can't have continent level (NA/EU) offline only tournaments over several month period, unlike ones at national level (Korea)) structured over a year with combined season finals and a big tournament at the end of the year. Now, without going in much detail, let's just remember that in the process of establishing current WCS system, Blizzard has destroyed existing esports scene across the globe. Where could possibly go wrong with that, right?
So Blizzard went all-in with 2013 WCS and the result has been catastrophic. They tried to be MVP in game 7, failed to even become BitByBit, ended up as ActionJesuz, in a manner of speaking. It's not like there has been a surprise in esports scene: Koreans winning WCS NA/EU and season finals, people wanting "local representative" for each WCS region (however justified they may be), and last but not least, declining KR scene. Even artosis could've made these predictions and he still would've been right.
Speaking of declining KR scene, did you know that neither OGN nor GomTV would be broadcasting WCS season 2 final for Korean audience? Instead there will be a "community stream." Sure, dedicated fans would surely still turn up to watch. It's not like WCS needs more exposure in Korea or added production value, right? In lieu of WCS, Koreans will have OGN's LoL broadcast and GomTV's Dota2/WoT broadcast to watch this weekend. (actually you could watch them back-to-back-ish with WCS since there will be only about an hour or so overlap, if either of them actually bothered to broadcast WCS)
Based on how quickly Blizzard has addressed issues in the past, its about time they noticed how much they screwed up. However, I wouldn't hold my breath until I hear that someone got the axe for decisions he made or something. This is certainly odd that gom and ogn will not broadcast live since both kespa,and esl have important players in the finals.I thought it would be in their own interest to promote their own players.So a lol and dota2 rebroacast brings more viewers than sc2 final?Very weird indeed if it is true,but since it is the korean market they probably care more about osl and gsl than any other foreign competition anyway It is live broadcast for gomtv and ogn, they are not MLG's twitch :D. And yes, they care more about events actually played in Korea for obvious reasons (not to mention, that these groups will go until well over 2 AM for Korea). And yes, i am all for someone actually investing money into trying to grow foreign SC2 scene, but there is 1 reason it won't happen: nobody with power to help it, cares about it. And trying to turn WCS into attempt to do it won't end well.
the dude that i quoted innitialy says it will not be broadcast live.
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On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics...
So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs.
And people still think they are not lazy?
You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing.
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On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing.
riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same?
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On August 23 2013 00:23 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing. riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same?
That is not a valid argument...
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On August 23 2013 00:23 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing. riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same?
"Everything" is a bit misleading since they only do LCS (however enormous it is).
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On August 23 2013 00:25 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:23 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing. riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same? That is not a valid argument...
what?are you serious?of course it is a valid argument.If one of your smaller competitors can organize a good proscene 100% on its own money while you can not do that and expect the community to do everything of course it is an issue.How the hell is that not an argument.....wow.
@mcratyn
and blizz only does wcs.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 23 2013 00:27 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:25 Assirra wrote:On August 23 2013 00:23 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing. riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same? That is not a valid argument... what?are you serious?of course it is a valid argument.If one of your smaller competitors can organize a good proscene 100% on its own money while you can not do that and expect the community to do everything of course it is an issue.How the hell is that not an argument.....wow. @mcratyn and blizz only does wcs.
TIL riot is competitor to Blizzard (yeah, ofc, they have their own MMORPG, RPG and RTS title that are all parts of franchise with good 10+ year old history).
TIL i learned that only developers should develop the scene and not the scene.
TIL blizzard only does wcs and only develops SC2
and ofc TIL that blizzard has constant source of income from SC2 and is entirely dependant on it.
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What about region lock for teams ?
Exemple :
EG is a USA team and play in WCS America.
KT Rolster is a Korean team and play in WCS Korea
Millenium is a French team and play in WCS Europe.
You would have region lock based on teams. But Jaedong could still play WCS America because he is in a american team. If someone want to play in another region, they would have to join a foreign team. (I know that's not something you can do easily).
You would have teams that keep out koreans because they can't afford it but still have good players (i have none in mind) but could still exist (do mouz have koreans ?).
If for exemple StarTale wants to play WCS America. Well... They have to move the team in the country. (not really possible i know).
I don't really have thought that well on the subject. But maybe it's an idea you could discuss between people that know what they are talking about (unlike me :p).
I don't watch soccer, but i know that french teams have spanish, italian or even brasilian players. And i know a lot of teams in other country have as well.
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On August 23 2013 00:32 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:27 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:25 Assirra wrote:On August 23 2013 00:23 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing. riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same? That is not a valid argument... what?are you serious?of course it is a valid argument.If one of your smaller competitors can organize a good proscene 100% on its own money while you can not do that and expect the community to do everything of course it is an issue.How the hell is that not an argument.....wow. @mcratyn and blizz only does wcs. TIL riot is competitor to Blizzard (yeah, ofc, they have their own MMORPG, RPG and RTS title that are all parts of franchise with good 10+ year old history). TIL i learned that only developers should develop the scene and not the scene. TIL blizzard only does wcs and only develops SC2 and ofc TIL that blizzard has constant source of income from SC2 and is entirely dependant on it.
.....yeah man in the esports scene they are competitors like it or not.
I never said only developers develop the proscene-you pulled that out your ass
yeas you are right.blizzard only organizes wcs-can you point to me other tournaments directly organized by blizzard?
i never said anything about only developing sc2 or about its source of income-again pulling stuff out your ass.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 23 2013 00:44 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:27 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:25 Assirra wrote:On August 23 2013 00:23 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing. riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same? That is not a valid argument... what?are you serious?of course it is a valid argument.If one of your smaller competitors can organize a good proscene 100% on its own money while you can not do that and expect the community to do everything of course it is an issue.How the hell is that not an argument.....wow. @mcratyn and blizz only does wcs. TIL riot is competitor to Blizzard (yeah, ofc, they have their own MMORPG, RPG and RTS title that are all parts of franchise with good 10+ year old history). TIL i learned that only developers should develop the scene and not the scene. TIL blizzard only does wcs and only develops SC2 and ofc TIL that blizzard has constant source of income from SC2 and is entirely dependant on it. .....yeah man in the esports scene they are competitors like it or not. I never said only developers develop the proscene-you pulled that out your ass yeas you are right.blizzard only organizes wcs-can you point to me other tournaments directly organized by blizzard? i never said anything about only developing sc2 or about its source of income-again pulling stuff out your ass.
Now i understand the joke about Romanians.
First of all, name me a game, currently developed by Riot, that is not LoL.
Second, name me source of income for Riot (and we all know what is it).
Third, Blizzard only organizes wcs.... True that. If you forget about blizzcon's existence and bear in mind, that wcs is blizzcon's qualifier.
And last, why would you put riot as example, when this is developer that tries to develop the scene, because the scene refuses to do it itself it seems (except for Korea, but it is Korea and LoL is popular there... what else needs to be done).
And last, Blizzard and Riot are indirect competitors via their games and last time i checked Blizzard almost never involved themselves in the scene, except for Blizzcon's invitationals, so they do not even compete with Riot.
On August 23 2013 00:42 FFW_Rude wrote:
What about region lock for teams ?
Exemple :
EG is a USA team and play in WCS America.
KT Rolster is a Korean team and play in WCS Korea
Millenium is a French team and play in WCS Europe.
You would have region lock based on teams. But Jaedong could still play WCS America because he is in a american team. If someone want to play in another region, they would have to join a foreign team. (I know that's not something you can do easily).
You would have teams that keep out koreans because they can't afford it but still have good players (i have none in mind) but could still exist (do mouz have koreans ?).
If for exemple StarTale wants to play WCS America. Well... They have to move the team in the country. (not really possible i know).
I don't really have thought that well on the subject. But maybe it's an idea you could discuss between people that know what they are talking about (unlike me :p).
I don't watch soccer, but i know that french teams have spanish, italian or even brasilian players. And i know a lot of teams in other country have as well.
Region lock by teams.... let's just say it simply makes no sense... At all.
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On August 23 2013 00:44 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 00:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:27 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:25 Assirra wrote:On August 23 2013 00:23 theking1 wrote:On August 23 2013 00:21 Assirra wrote:On August 22 2013 22:56 NapkinBox wrote:On August 22 2013 22:26 McRatyn wrote:
People talking about lack of local tourneys are certainly true but isn't it a totally seperate problem from the WCS and the so-called "korean invasion"? It's the problem with Americans (Europeans) themselves, with people not organizing those small things. It's not like Blizzard is gonna "go" to every city and organize local tournaments for people, come on! For an e-sports scene thare has to be common folk interest at least to some degree. It all starts at the bottom I belive, and if that bottom is void then no region lock will help. Which is why it shouldn't be local, but online instead. That's simple enough. Though, I don't know of any common folk who are willing to risk and spend money building a scene for amateurs and growing pros, and I don't expect anyone to, but MLG and Blizzard obviously has the resources to make it all possible. I just don't know if they're even interested in it at all. Sadly, there are also people out there who think any support to the NA scene would be undeserved and a waste. It's not a completely separate topic, but this is pretty much a response to why NA players aren't good enough to "fend off" the Koreans in a NA Qualifier. I'm also wishing WCS 2014 returns to being the Starcraft Olympics... So you want Blizzard and MLG to build up the scene from the ground up for you while the koreans worked years for theirs. And people still think they are not lazy? You want something? Do it yourself, don't rely on some big organization to do all the work for you just so you can have your thing. riot does everything and does not seem to have an issue with that.why can't blizzard do the same? That is not a valid argument... what?are you serious?of course it is a valid argument.If one of your smaller competitors can organize a good proscene 100% on its own money while you can not do that and expect the community to do everything of course it is an issue.How the hell is that not an argument.....wow. @mcratyn and blizz only does wcs. TIL riot is competitor to Blizzard (yeah, ofc, they have their own MMORPG, RPG and RTS title that are all parts of franchise with good 10+ year old history). TIL i learned that only developers should develop the scene and not the scene. TIL blizzard only does wcs and only develops SC2 and ofc TIL that blizzard has constant source of income from SC2 and is entirely dependant on it. .....yeah man in the esports scene they are competitors like it or not. I never said only developers develop the proscene-you pulled that out your ass yeas you are right.blizzard only organizes wcs-can you point to me other tournaments directly organized by blizzard? i never said anything about only developing sc2 or about its source of income-again pulling stuff out your ass.
Can you stop being aggressive please ? I want to read a civil discussion 
Edit : NOOOOOO i wanted to do something for my 1000post  didn't saw my postcount
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