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Changes for balance test map live - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
1190 CommentsPost a Reply
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Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
August 12 2013 20:01 GMT
#81
On August 13 2013 04:57 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2013 04:54 Nebuchad wrote:
On August 13 2013 04:41 Holdenintherye wrote:
What I don't understand is why they try to make mech a thing. Isn't bio/tank play good enough? Why do they HAVE to make a certain playstyle a part of the meta?


Because it makes no sense to continue to make bio units tvp once the protoss composition is specifically designed to hard counter it. It's like continuing to spam mutas against mass phoenix. The fact that you can still win with it if you try really hard is a testament to how good bio is.

What?? And what exactly Terran is supposed to build lategame vs Protoss? Tanks? Thors? Battlecruisers?...


Ghost/viking. Same as in WoL.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Pseudorandom
Profile Joined April 2010
United States120 Posts
August 12 2013 20:02 GMT
#82
Who needs lair tech with full energy vipers!
"This is scissors, paper is fine, paper just needs to learn how to play. Paper needs to stop complaining." - richlol
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 12 2013 20:02 GMT
#83
On August 13 2013 05:01 Waxangel wrote:
#yearofgoody


When Goody and Hasuobs meet in a game, who wins?

Answer: Grubby.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-12 20:04:02
August 12 2013 20:03 GMT
#84
On August 13 2013 04:45 Vindicare605 wrote:
They want to improve mech yet they're buffing the hard counter Zerg anti-Mech tool at the same time.

Awesome logic.

What the Viper needs is a rework to Blinding Cloud that makes it better vs Bio and weaker vs Mech. The Unit itself right now is far too narrow focused. It's a borderline overpowered unit vs Mech compositions and completely useless vs Bio/Mine. Changing what energy it starts with changes none of that.

agree with bolded. I disagree on blinding cloud. I think it's plenty powerful against bio(please blizzard, change its color, so hurtful on the eyes ><) but they need to do something about the viper if they plan to make viable. It's just too hard countered by the abduct ability. Maybe nerf the range of abduct but I dunno how they'll balance that.

Overall, was hoping they would change more in a patch but I guess better they buff not nerf and that it's done in steps.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
bludragen88
Profile Joined August 2008
United States527 Posts
August 12 2013 20:03 GMT
#85
I'm going to laugh when some protoss loads up HT at the viper timing and instead of storm drops goes for feedback drops as they hatch out of the eggs. Would be way more of a pimpest play than overseer contaminate on pathogen glands before infestors pop.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 12 2013 20:03 GMT
#86
Viper buff o.0
I like the mech buff though.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
August 12 2013 20:03 GMT
#87
Seriously, name a protoss unit that isn't great vs mech. Anything that can't straight up fight them can out maneuver them or just get right on top of tanks. Even sentries can hallucinate immortals to tank dmg and close on the core of the mech army. The same composition you want vs terran bio in PvT also does fine vs mech. Colossus and storms with chargelots, archons, maybe 2 or 3 immortals mixed in to tank initial siege dmg.

Zerg just has the mobility, map vision, and tech switching to deal with mech very easily. As long as they are not surprised by a mech timing, they can easily deal with it.

If they want to bring back mech, the first thing they need to do is give tanks back their massive base dmg, and get rid of the dmg bonus to specific unit classes. Thors need to be much more effective at anti air. Whether by increasing thier splash aoe, or increasing the rate of fire.

Mech is strongest when maxed, which takes until late game. Broodlords, ultras, tempests and colossus destroy it.
Scouting is so much easier now that unless your opponent is very incompetent you will never surprise them with a mech timing. If that timing fails for whatever reason, you are so screwed.
:)
Radel
Profile Joined June 2011
United States115 Posts
August 12 2013 20:03 GMT
#88
Vipers just become instant feedback targets. an HT warps in with enough energy for a feedback.
Manner should be mutual. Innovation - Jjakji - Grubby - HuK - JD - StarDust - Flash - Balloon
Redrot
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
United States446 Posts
August 12 2013 20:04 GMT
#89
I think all of those are quite reasonable (being a zerg), although the viper upgrade feels a bit random, and just makes mech weaker. If anything, I think that vipers should be given an attack (albiet weak) due to the fact that they do not deal any damage, and other spellcasters which do not deal damage via spells (i.e. sentries) get attacks.
I root for CJ because their fb posts are hilarious
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13996 Posts
August 12 2013 20:04 GMT
#90
Incredible, they are actually going to leave toss alone and see how things go for them, despite having 8 of the 16 seeds in season 2 finals and dominating europe
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
Ctesias
Profile Joined December 2012
4595 Posts
August 12 2013 20:04 GMT
#91
I like the overseer change.

I think the mech change could be good.

I am unsure of the viper change. They need SOMETHING, but I'm not sure this is the right way to go.

Overall I like these changes.
Flash | Mvp
AnomalySC2
Profile Joined August 2012
United States2073 Posts
August 12 2013 20:04 GMT
#92
Heh, if they think mech is weak then making vipers spawn with full energy certainly isn't going to help the situation any. Blinding Cloud > Siege Tanks. Abduct > Thors. They already nerfed Hell Bats.
Radel
Profile Joined June 2011
United States115 Posts
August 12 2013 20:04 GMT
#93
On August 13 2013 05:03 bludragen88 wrote:
I'm going to laugh when some protoss loads up HT at the viper timing and instead of storm drops goes for feedback drops as they hatch out of the eggs. Would be way more of a pimpest play than overseer contaminate on pathogen glands before infestors pop.


Agreed. I feel like there will be some boss HT plays vs Vipers now
Manner should be mutual. Innovation - Jjakji - Grubby - HuK - JD - StarDust - Flash - Balloon
sns3rsam
Profile Joined September 2012
United States138 Posts
August 12 2013 20:04 GMT
#94
On August 13 2013 05:03 bludragen88 wrote:
I'm going to laugh when some protoss loads up HT at the viper timing and instead of storm drops goes for feedback drops as they hatch out of the eggs. Would be way more of a pimpest play than overseer contaminate on pathogen glands before infestors pop.


Hahaha exactly my thought! Definitely would be sick to watch as the protoss has to have his timings down!
"Every Terran same to me... uhhhh ezpz" -DRG // When Life gives you banelings...
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
August 12 2013 20:05 GMT
#95
On August 13 2013 05:03 bludragen88 wrote:
Would be way more of a pimpest play than overseer contaminate on pathogen glands before infestors pop.


Don't think I've ever seen that in a game before, but that sounds really sick.
URLateral
Profile Joined October 2012
275 Posts
August 12 2013 20:05 GMT
#96
Zerg need these buffs i think this will help alot esp in zvp
Msr
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)495 Posts
August 12 2013 20:06 GMT
#97
#1 is VERY needed and a good change, add in widow mines taking priority in fights and Terran will still>zerg but it would be good enough changes to wait and see off of.

#2-3 are a little odd, vipers have full energy 10 seconds after spawning anyway so it will be interesting to see in test
sns3rsam
Profile Joined September 2012
United States138 Posts
August 12 2013 20:07 GMT
#98
On August 13 2013 05:04 Redrot wrote:
I think all of those are quite reasonable (being a zerg), although the viper upgrade feels a bit random, and just makes mech weaker. If anything, I think that vipers should be given an attack (albiet weak) due to the fact that they do not deal any damage, and other spellcasters which do not deal damage via spells (i.e. sentries) get attacks.


Hmmm yea that might be interesting! If anything, make it an anti air attack only kinda like what it was in the campaign.
"Every Terran same to me... uhhhh ezpz" -DRG // When Life gives you banelings...
Cyanocyst
Profile Joined October 2010
2222 Posts
August 12 2013 20:07 GMT
#99
On August 13 2013 04:26 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard's plans: Buff everything.

I endorse this plan.


Exactly tho, i feel that Buffing things to balance is better than Nerfing to balance, as was done in WOL. That's what made it so preferable to play defensively.
|| Fruit Dealer | Leenock | Yughio | Coca | Sniper | True | Solar | Dark |
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
August 12 2013 20:07 GMT
#100
On August 13 2013 05:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Heh, if they think mech is weak then making vipers spawn with full energy certainly isn't going to help the situation any. Blinding Cloud > Siege Tanks. Abduct > Thors. They already nerfed Hell Bats.


lol I predict the current TvZ (and ZvT) builds to be unperturbed by these purposed balance changes
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