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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
What would putting 3/3 down from hive to just infestation pit change? How drastic of a change would it make to the timing window that terrans are using atm? Again im not crying balance change etc, just curious exactly what is the change in "fluidity" between post hive 3/3 and pre hive 3/3 (on zergs part) | ||
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FakeDouble
Australia676 Posts
On August 12 2013 15:43 Msr wrote: is there a reason protoss and terran do not need another tech path for +3? Zerg has to add on two buildings.. one of them being completely useless Different races are different. Unless you want all races to be the same... P and T pay extra between +1s and +2s (twilight and armory). Z pays 'extra' between +2 and +3 (infestor pit, no you can't make an argument for spawning pool). Armory enables thors and hellbats which T may never get in biomine style, so it is 'useless' in a similar way infestor pit is 'useless' if you don't plan to make infestors or swarmhosts. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
Off topic, there are 1 million and two reasons why zerg delays their upgrades. 1)banes don't need ups as much. 2)infestors don't need ups. 3)Ultras don't need ups (fast hive 2-2 ultras are rare, but still happen). 4) They can rely on superior economy to win games. The opportunity cost of fast ups is less eco. 5) Mutas can win games and every muta counts when you play mass muta style. 6) All ins. 1-1 and 2-2 death timings. | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
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Inimic
Canada153 Posts
Its like calling a fanclub a religion. | ||
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MattD
United Kingdom83 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On August 12 2013 15:41 ktimekiller wrote: You are totally disregarding total gas cost of Infestor pit Hive 3/3 upgrade crackling That is a lot of gas that otherwise might lead to you dying. I'm aware, you didn't read what I said. The zerg is always floating gas, it's easy to drop a fester pit (I know 3/3 requires hive, @ the post above, but a pit is a step in the direction). The only time when zerg doesnt have 100 gas to spare is when they build as many mutas or banes as possible. Missing out on 1 muta or 4 banes is not going to single handedly kill you. Are you actually convinced that mutalisk is going to make the difference between a win and a loss? How do you think Scarlett pulls it off? Luck? I sure hope not. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 12 2013 16:31 Zenbrez wrote: I'm aware, you didn't read what I said. The zerg is always floating gas, it's easy to drop a fester pit (I know 3/3 requires hive, @ the post above, but a pit is a step in the direction). The only time when zerg doesnt have 100 gas to spare is when they build as many mutas or banes as possible. Missing out on 1 muta or 4 banes is not going to single handedly kill you. Are you actually convinced that mutalisk is going to make the difference between a win and a loss? How do you think Scarlett pulls it off? Luck? I sure hope not. Infestation pit - 100 gas Hive - 150 gas Total - 250 gas Or: 2.5 mutas 10 banelings | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On August 12 2013 16:31 Zenbrez wrote: I'm aware, you didn't read what I said. The zerg is always floating gas, it's easy to drop a fester pit (I know 3/3 requires hive, @ the post above, but a pit is a step in the direction). The only time when zerg doesnt have 100 gas to spare is when they build as many mutas or banes as possible. Missing out on 1 muta or 4 banes is not going to single handedly kill you. Are you actually convinced that mutalisk is going to make the difference between a win and a loss? How do you think Scarlett pulls it off? Luck? I sure hope not. Your post makes no sense man and proves you're in a lower league. No point in getting infestor pit unless you're sure you're going to use it. You don't just get it for the scenery. You're basically confusing two different game PLANS. One is stay on 2-2 until you either win OR do game winning damage (then your transition). With this plan, you don't spend gas on anything else because you need it all to win. If you take gas away from your timing it's weaker and suddenly you sacrificed for a timing which won't work. And everything in sc2 is exponentially good or bad. So if it doesn't work, it will likely not work by a landslide.Two is get the 2-2 out to defend, get a solid foundation of bases, then go hive. Of course being flexible and adapting is the sign of any good player, but that doesn't change the initial plan. There's a reason why pro zerg players play the way they do. It's like saying all Terrans should get a raven to clear creep. SOunds all fine and dandy, but actually not so good. | ||
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JesseBunny
Finland18 Posts
Mainly when their MMMM attacks start coming in zergs are trying to get good amount of mutas, and to set up their fourth base. Then you just have to constantly make units to even have a little chance against said attack. Now this is how it goes at the current metagame, even though some zergs play it out differently. | ||
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EFermi
United States165 Posts
On August 12 2013 16:31 Zenbrez wrote: I'm aware, you didn't read what I said. The zerg is always floating gas, it's easy to drop a fester pit (I know 3/3 requires hive, @ the post above, but a pit is a step in the direction). The only time when zerg doesnt have 100 gas to spare is when they build as many mutas or banes as possible. Missing out on 1 muta or 4 banes is not going to single handedly kill you. Are you actually convinced that mutalisk is going to make the difference between a win and a loss? How do you think Scarlett pulls it off? Luck? I sure hope not. Scarlett having some success against Alive in WCS AM is not the same as facing Innovation or Flash in a TvZ. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Entirety
1423 Posts
On August 12 2013 17:22 Big J wrote: @OP: nice to have someone else do the math for once. But it's lacking half of the problem. A main part of the zerg army is going to be zerglings, and zerglings upgrade similarily as marines. Which means that marines having a +1armor advantage is also huge and makes for a 20% damage reduction. So not only do you get killed 16.6% faster, you also kill marines 20% slower with zerglings! Um, did you not see the "Armor Analysis" section of the OP? | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 12 2013 17:24 Entirety wrote: Um, did you not see the "Armor Analysis" section of the OP? Uh lol, sorry. Tired. Read right over it.  | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
Hey, I made this thread to illustrate how zergs have been struggling lately (personally, I was rooting for Jaedong who might as well be JaeKong) and how zergs might overcome the problem. Why present a painting when it's half-complete?  | ||
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Entirety
1423 Posts
On August 12 2013 17:30 Yorbon wrote: I am not balance whining, but terran is just overpowered. Nothing i can do about that. I am not calling you out but you are balance whining. We really need to see some cool Overseer tactics which delay Terran's 3-3 until Zerg manages to do the same. Too bad Overseers cost gas, delaying Zerg's upgrades at the same time... | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On August 12 2013 17:36 Entirety wrote: Didnt you read my post? i said i wasnt balance whining. ^^I am not calling you out but you are balance whining. We really need to see some cool Overseer tactics which delay Terran's 3-3 until Zerg manages to do the same. Too bad Overseers cost gas, delaying Zerg's upgrades at the same time... | ||
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On August 12 2013 17:38 Yorbon wrote: Didnt you read my post? i said i wasnt balance whining. ^^ I'm not saying you're a little slow, but that's just strange. Nothing i can do about that. ^^ | ||
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