And about EG-TL's proleague future, I don't know. It is the only team in proleague that sends their best players (HerO, Jaedong and Taeja) to foreign LANs almost every time there is an opportunity. I can't believe that there would be such a huge skill difference between other proleague teams and EG-TL, but it is rather about priorities. World outside of KeSPA has never a had a thing like the proleague, even GSTL is not that huge, it is all about the individual championships. If EG-TL wants to be a playoff contender in next proleague either they have to have the top players practicing for proleague and WCS in Korea or they have to make a cleaner cut between the ''proleague EG-TL'' and the ''LAN EG and TL''. What I mean by this is basically they need more Stephanos, people who say that they wont even try the proleague, but rather focus on LAN's and then others who will be the backbone of the proleague roster.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
Real professionals market themselves by being the best at their field, not being the loudest. There's a difference between how EG operates compared to Korean teams. EG buys known players and whore them around to every event they can. Kespa teams focus on building a solid team, nurturing talent, and let their hard work do the talking.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
Real professionals market themselves by being the best at their field, not being the loudest. There's a difference between how EG operates compared to Korean teams. EG buys known players and whore them around to every event they can. Kespa teams focus on building a solid team, nurturing talent, and let their hard work do the talking.
It helps when your broadcast on national TV several nights a week and the local government makes military exceptions for your players. One of the more important members in Kespa is also part of the Korean government, which is likely helpful. When EG can pull strings in the US congress, I think they will be on the same level. It makes it way easier to focus on talent when the small stuff, like paying everyone is taken care of. Until the, EG is still a scrappy upstart trying to make its way to the big time.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
except that Samsung, STX, SKTelecom, KT, Hanbit/WJS, CJ have been around for what, more than one decade. The only foreign organization that has been active equally or longer is Schroet Kommando (but mostly due to smart investment on various games). You cant deny that being sponsored by these Korean chaebols is the best thing one gaming entity could possibly wish for.
On July 23 2013 01:33 havok55 wrote: It's a shame player improvement doesn't get calculated into an esport team's ROI.
Alex Garfield has been pushing for more information and viewer numbers to be released to teams by the major events(MLG, Dreamhack, maybe WCS?). Right now, he doesn't get any useful data on viewer numbers when someone like Jaedong makes it to the finals of Dreamhack. So he and EG can only tell his sponsors that it was good for them, but can't prove it(Sponsors will not accept stream numbers or the press releases from Dreamhack and MLG as useful, from what Alex Garfield has said). Because he doesn't ahve that data to prove to his sponsors that getting to the finals was worth their money, he has to generate numbers other ways, through streams and other data to prove the sponship is worth it.
So you are correct that player improvement isn't calculated into ROI, but its not all EG's fault. They would like to be able to provide those numbers to sponsors, but they simply do not have them right now.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
except that Samsung, STX, SKTelecom, KT, Hanbit/WJS, CJ have been around for what, more than one decade. The only foreign organization that has been active equally or longer is Schroet Kommando (but mostly due to smart investment on various games). You cant deny that being sponsored by these Korean chaebols is the best thing one gaming entity could possibly wish for.
Of course it must be great and I am sure that every NA team would do much better if they were backed by a large company like Microsoft, GM or Ford. The amount of things they would not have to care about would free them up to double down on becoming the best teams possible. But we are not there yet.
Happy for CJ, a bit sad that EGTL loses it's most important piece. I can't see them being competitive next year unless they get another good coach, if they even decide to continue.
I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
Seems like a no-brainer. If you sponsor a team, it's in your best interest if they have the best players. You want them to have the reputation of a champion.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
Real professionals market themselves by being the best at their field, not being the loudest. There's a difference between how EG operates compared to Korean teams. EG buys known players and whore them around to every event they can. Kespa teams focus on building a solid team, nurturing talent, and let their hard work do the talking.
It helps when your broadcast on national TV several nights a week and the local government makes military exceptions for your players. One of the more important members in Kespa is also part of the Korean government, which is likely helpful. When EG can pull strings in the US congress, I think they will be on the same level. It makes it way easier to focus on talent when the small stuff, like paying everyone is taken care of. Until the, EG is still a scrappy upstart trying to make its way to the big time.
Not saying you are wrong to differentiate between Samsung Khan and EG in terms of money/power/etc, but you are probably being a little too generous and sympathetic to EG by calling them a "scrappy upstart". EG generates a LOT of money, and probably pay their players staff and CEO more than just about any team out there. (barring players like Flash, Boxer or MVP who make large salaries). EG has also been around and on top of esports for a pretty long time...dating back at least to my knowledge the counterstrike days of CGS (oh the drama). They have tons of sponsors exposure and name recognition, and not just in Starcraft 2. They just don't have as much of that in the Korean market, because they haven't existed there for more than a year or 2. They would have to work hard there and probably pick up some korean businessmen/women to represent EG over there and seems like Alex Garfield likes to do everything himself rather than try to expand. As much as people give credit to Mr. Garfield for the growth of EG, I have this feeling that he has also hindered it, otherwise we would have seen some large Intel/Samsung/LG sized title sponsorship by now with the fame and multiple game depth EG has in the esports world..
On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote: I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims.
EPT
sad day for both CJ and EGTL
